Conversation with an erstwhile Libertarian today...

[Skidmore]

Our mechanic, lives in the country on a small farm with his wife and 4 boys. He has a small car repair business and is a darned good mechanic. He mostly votes third party but was leaning Dem this past year, until Katrina. He is thoroughly disgusted now that the Dems have not stood up at all against the corporations and for the worker. Now to those of you who think that the DLC-Centrist route is the way to go, I would submit that there are many more people like this guy. Workers who are going unrepresented and looking for leadership to address their concerns. There are countless people who don't even pay attention because no one has anything to say meaningful to their existence. Quit trying to be Rs and go back to the roots. Small farmers, labor, and so-called minority groups far outnumber the Rs and their agenda of theft and regression.

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. I've been fighitning this for the least two days

we need a progresive and populist revolution. It is time to revive the Populist party.

I was convinved of this by very similar responses, and the we are under attack by the DLC... they know we have their number, but we need to dial it up, and we need to stand to the pukes as well.

[annabanana]

5. here here. . . . eom

[readmoreoften]

2. I'm confused, this guy thinks he's a libertarian?

Libertarians ain't gonna do shite for the workin man, my friend. They let the market take care of everything from hurricanes to heart attacks.

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. Those are the RIGHT wing liberatarians

and the far more vociferous as well... the more liberal do believe in some gov'ment intervention and in the common welfare... they ARE RARE, and very quiet birds

[mcscajun]

15. Thank you for pointing that out.

Maybe now I can come outta the closet?

I don't self-describe as a Left-Libertarian, 'cause so many believe we don't exist, but that "political compass" test that came out a couple of years ago plotted me there. :)



My scores: Your political compass
Economic Left/Right: -8.63
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.03

I'm somewhere to the Left of, but more libertarian than, Gandhi.

"The chart also makes clear that, despite popular perceptions, the opposite of fascism is not communism but anarchism (ie liberal socialism), and that the opposite of communism ( i.e. an entirely state-planned economy) is neo-liberalism (i.e. extreme deregulated economy)."
http://www.politicalcompass.org/

[wysi]

27. Mine:

Economic left/right: -6.13
Social libertarian/authoritarian: -6.77

So we're both in that quadrant. Perhaps you shouldn't feel so lonely. :-)

[mcscajun]

31. Yay!

:)

:patriot:

[nadinbrzezinski]

28. You wellcome now since I called you a bird

want a cookie?

The three birds are rather noisy here, and by the way I know most folks don't realize this. I do... I guess I paid attention in Poli Sci...

Oh and just retook it, boy have I been pulled farther to the left \ libertarian side... wow over the last two years

Your political compass
Economic Left/Right: -9.00
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.85

[mcscajun]

32. Wow.

And I do mean :wow:

:)

[nadinbrzezinski]

36. I was amazed I guess I have been ahem radicalized hih?

[moc]

35. Hey, I'm a -8.13, -7.03

We're practically twins! ;-)

I think we're in good company with Gandhi.

:patriot:

[PittLib]

41. I'm damn close with ...

-8.13 economic
and -7.69 social.

Triplets? ;)

[nadinbrzezinski]

42. my lord we have found our lost brothers and sisters

;-)

Happy, happy joy joy, what shcoked me is how much I have been truly radicalized by Bushco.

[Telly Savalas]

44. Those compasses are recruitment tools for the Libertarian Party.

When I first started seeing those about 15 years ago or so, it was the Libertarian Party pushing them. The presence of the Ayn Randian buzzword "collectivism" on the charts should also be a big red flag alerting us to the fact that the makers of the compass are up to no good. You answer some questions they wrote, and by giving reasonable responses you magically meet their definition of a libertarian.

The word Libertarian has been stretched so much that it is virtually meaningless. When somebody declares "I am a libertarian", typically all they mean is "I am against excessive government intervention." This is a pretty empty statement though. Nobody is for excessive government intervention. Rather we all just have different ideas on what constitutes excessive intervention.

[readmoreoften]

16. I think in the US, the libertarian left don't call themselves such.

I mean, I would technically be 'left libertarian' according to political spectrum charts, but most of the people who ID with libertarianism in the US want to privatize everything from garbage collection to fire stations.

[mcscajun]

19. Exactly...we just call ourselves liberal and get bashed by both

sides from time to time.When I was younger, after my radical period, I self-described as "pragmatic liberal". I don't really like that phrase much.

We're tough with strong shoulders, too. :)

[kestrel91316]

37. And libertarian policy is to oppose government regulation of

medical professions, like my own (vet medicine). They oppose state licensure of doctors, etc and think anybody at all, educated or illiterate, should be able to hang out their shingle and open up a practice, and MARKET FACTORS will sort things out.

O-KAY...............

(and I know this because I WAS a libertarian until I became a vet, and found out this tidbit)

[nadinbrzezinski]

38. Agauin that is the RIGHT WING libertarians

they are them loud ones, there are LEFT WING libertarians who do believe in licencing and things like that.

I know hard to believe, but they do exist... heck seems I am one of them.

;-)

Hell I even believe in, gasp, payng taxes which are truly service fees... just keep the gov'ment out of the bedroom thank you

[kestrel91316]

39. At the time, it was in fact part of the Libertarian Party platform.

[nadinbrzezinski]

40. yes but the US Libertarian Party is mostly RIGHT WING

most LEFT WING libertarians call themselves either Liberals or Progressives... me I like to think of myself as a descendant of the Classical Liberal school of thought, hence not the same thing as what the Libertarians in the US stand for... They are mostly on the right of center, and mostly any lefty is not allowed in the club house.

Theoretically you have right libertarians, left libertarians, right authoritarians and left authoritarians... go to the test as posted here and test yourself, you will see the explanation as well

[nvliberal]

29. "Left wing" "libertarians" are so miniscule they aren't worth

even discussing.

The right-wingers are the ones making hell out of his country with their nutball ideas.

[nadinbrzezinski]

30. go take the test

you may be surprsied of the result... I know I was just blown away

[mcscajun]

33. And since you did...and you were...

...I decided to post an invitation to the test as a separate thread here at GD.

:)

[Telly Savalas]

45. I could design a test...

that would tell you that you were a fascist. Would you believe the results of it?

[dcfirefighter]

43. Left libertarian here

sometimes more left, sometimes more libertarian
Democratic Freedom Caucus
check it out. not much to it yet.

[Greyhound]

21. That didn't used to be true, but the Libertarians were co-opted by

the fundies in the 90's while we were screaming warnings about all the corporate crap that the repugs and dems were quietly ramming through. Now it is coming home to roost, and we're all crying about the evil repugs, while ignoring the fact that it was dems that made it all possible.
Anyway, as far as helping the working man, the Libertarian platform overwhelmingly favored average working class Americans before the funda-mental-ists took over.

[emcguffie]

3. Amen. NT

[bee]

6. couldnt agree more. great post. :-) n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. Oh and for a look at the DLC

here you go


the mentality is... the elephant in the room cannot and will not be discussed

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2132742&mesg_id=2132742

[stopbush]

8. Most libertarians I know aren't for the Ds or the Rs...

or the country at large - they're for themselves.

[Greyhound]

9. I hope this gets through the flack and apologists.

He is the guy that elects. This is our audience but because he doesn't agree with the shouting points he is cast aside to vote for the repugs or, at best, a third party. The dems have abandoned us to feather their own nests and ensure lifetime employment for their friends and relatives.
Who among the true Democrats will stand up?
:kick:

[The Backlash Cometh]

10. There are Democrats willing to fight for that man. Only they're black.

It's up to your buddy to seek them out and put his biases aside.

[nadinbrzezinski]

11. Some of us are not black and will fight for him too

but we have no place on the DLC controlled table... yes I see the DLC right now as the major problem for the party. Oh and to the black caucus, here is a toast

[The Backlash Cometh]

13. Is the DLC the entire Democratic party? Where does the DNC fit in all

this?

[nadinbrzezinski]

17. The DLC are one faction

unfortunately very powerful, and in fact holding most of the canter right democrats who in another era would have been comfortable being Moderate Republicans....

They run with a theory that you can take ideas from the other side, and triangulate to make a winning coalition, and Clinton ran with them and for them... they also have gotten a lot of the money from the same corpos that support the RNC.

Mow their power is waning because the base is noticing and some of us are saying, DLC, or R, same dif... they are also known as DINOs... Democrats in name only.

As I said right now we are in the midst of an existential fight inside the party... I fear what will take is a true populist party doing to the Dems the same the Populist party did over 100 years ago... or plain out a green or two winning national office.

[Skidmore]

18. The DNC appears to be only willing to engage in dialogue

with the DLC at the present time. That's what it looks like from rural Iowa, where our governor is moving on to head the DLC.

[Skidmore]

12. This is true and the party will not give these people the

leadership roles they deserve. This alone is pissing me off.

[Mr_Spock]

26. "give"?

We want something, we need to FIGHT for it. Complacency is as much a problem as misplaced leadership IMHO.

[Greyhound]

23. Who are the dems that will fight for them? I know of many people

that would, but nobody with the power to do it.

[The Backlash Cometh]

24. why don't you think they have the power?

I think the bigger question is why would a Dem go out on a limb for a Libertarian, who won't go out on a limb for anyone but himself?

[Greyhound]

34. You don't understand the traditional Libertarian view. I have and will

again support the candidates that will make a difference. The dems that would are marginalized within the party because they would threaten the power base of The Party.

[Mr_Spock]

25. "Ask not what your country can do for you, instead ask what you can do

for your country"

I agree with you. Folks want those kind of candidates, then folks need to support those kind of candidates. It really is that simple.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

14. There are so many unmet needs in this country, and

the mainstream Dems--the only ones who are ever seen on TV--are just reacting to the Republicanites (either positively or negatively) instead of listening to their constituents about what average people need.

The "meth epidemic" is one example. It's all over the news, and states are "dealing with it" by making it hard for the 99% of law-abiding cold, allergy, and sinus headache sufferers to buy their usual medications.

But that's treating the symptom rather than the disease, which is people turning to meth production because they have lost hope of ever catching up financially by legitimate means or using it because that's the only way they can stay awake during their two jobs.

There are similar examples of widely-touted "problems" that are merely symptoms of an underlying weakness in our society, and no one is talking about these root causes.

[liveoaktx]

20. Then you need to tell him he's mistaken-there are a lot of Dems

standing up to this baloney... but they DO NOT GET MEDIA ATTENTION. Why? Because Dems are the minority party and most people don't watch Cspan.

Point out to him what Republicans control right now. Dems do not even have the power to investigate.

let him know a number of Dems spoke up very loudly about what Bush did about Davis-Bacon. Dems speak up every day for the worker and the Republicans many times don't even allow their amendments to be discussed.

We have to stop this entire MYTH that the vocal wishy-washy Dems who seem to the same ones to sell out and go on, for example, Fox News week after week, represent every single Dem. They don't. Speak up and set him straight

And if you need to see some examples of Dems speaking up, I've made a number of videos that are on Canofun. Dems speaking up against the bankruptcy bill. Dems speaking up about the crassness of the energy bill. Dems speaking up for the worker against Davis-Bacon. Dems speaking up for fiscal responsbility. ETC ETC ETC

[Skidmore]

22. How many times have we watched Dems stand up and speak

and then turn around and vote the opposite of what they have said? I'm watching what they DO. Did you hear Norm Solomon take Feinstien apart on Washington Journal this morning? He said what I often think. When it comes to delivering, they simply don't when it counts. Very rarely do you see them stand as a block and there were many times over these years when NONE of them should have voted for or against measures simply because it was wrong. Instead, we have the Liebermans, Landrieus, Lincolns, Nelsons (cubed), Feinstiens, and the list goes on.

[adubadee]

46. Wow. I thought I would be with the average of this site.

Not quite, but in the right area.

Your political compass
Economic Left/Right: -1.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.05