You know...."We" outnumber "Them." But, "WE" have to get together.

[Thtwudbeme]

I just got home from my African American Religious Thought class....and I was trying to explain (badly--because I am not articulate) why Julius Lester was angry with African Americans after the end of the Civil Rights movement (about 1970-72 or so...history majors, leap in please). I was explaining that "Liberal Special Interest Groups" don't really support each other.

Gays don't march for blacks; they are angry about not having the same rights in society as heterosexuals.

Women don't care that much about Gays...they are busy trying to "have it all" and save their rights to manage their own gynecological affairs without the Christians fucking stuff up.

Liberal Christians don't march for women...they are busy trying to explain that they are "true" Christians.

And so on...

You know what? WE...the Gays, the Atheists, the minorities, need to get together.

That's the number one thing wrong with "us." The RightWingers can argue about shit until the cows come home...but, at the end of the day...they STILL support each other.

It wouldn't mean a fucking thing to a Republican if Bush got drunk and did a line of coke off the desk in the oval office while getting a blowjob from Anne Coulter on Faux News. Franklin Graham would find a passage in the OT somewhere explaining that that was Godly behavior.

See what I mean? How can we put our "personals" aside, and get out the damned vote? The ONLY way is for Gays to attend black churches, for blacks to demand the right for Gays to marry, etc.

It's time.

Thoughts? Or am I just fried from too much "higher learning?"

[Ksec]

1. Yes, we do have our differences

And its really a mystery on how to bring all the different groups together. I feel that the Dems are much better for all groups. Black, white, gay straight , rich poor, minority, majority, you name it .

In between elections we go at each other. Look around this board. When the elections near thats all forgotten and we speak with one voice.

[Thtwudbeme]

2. No, it has not been enough

This country has gone down the tubes because Liberal Special Interest Groups can't get their shit together. This has been going on since the early seventies.

The divide and conquer techniques have worked to shut us up and make us impotent.

Sorry.

[BlueJac]

6. You are right on there!

Liberals are all over the place, need to focus and join on issues.

[Ksec]

11. Please expand. Im not seeing this.

Special interests ? Blacks and Gays? You seem to focus on those two groups in your OP.

[Thtwudbeme]

13. What are you not seeing? Try this one: why don't you post

in GD....something like, "I am a Liberal, but I believe in Jesus the Christ."

Or..."I am a Liberal, but I am opposed to abortion."

Or..."I am a Liberal Catholic, but I don't think Gays should get married."

THEN come back here and explain to me how we all stand together.

As far as the "we stand together on election day..." that's crap. You should see the threads on election weeks. I have been on DU since almost day 1, and it ain't pretty.

You paint a nice fairy tale...but, we have lost Almost ALL elections in the country since 1994.

[Just Me]

17. I always ignore those posts. They set up division.

I wonder at the motivation of the proponents of those posts.

Do you?

I am very tolerant of differing positions, until they seem to be used to separate us or harm others (excepting those who are aggressively harming us).

A Liberal can be personally opposed to abortion but, obviously, would not seek to control the personal decision of others.

A Liberal can be Catholic and against Gay marriage but, obviously, would not seek to control the personal decision of others.

A Liberal can (many, MANY Liberals do) believe in Jesus Christ but, obviously, would not seek to control the personal decision of others.

Liberals are tolerant of differences and seek to unify our fundamental human interests: freedom to choose religious belief, to control our bodies, to participate in our governance, to express our opinions (within the limits of causing harm to others), to live to the best of our ability, to have a shot at maximizing our potential, to contribute towards bettering our society.

[opihimoimoi]

3. No, ya got it right...we out number them...but the deal is, THEY have a

brain washing unit in place and going full bore.

They have seen to it our ed system is not all that cracked up to be.

They want us ignorant IE Id and Evolution contest...

They are the 1% and want to keep it that way...meaning they wish to retain CONTROL.

We are kept fractionalized with distractions and divisive shit IE Gay marriage, abortion, etc

Until we can see through the smoke screen, we will remain in the status quo...divided.

We desperately need a NEW VISION and the DEM Party has yet to provide one... Why Not? Beats me?

Come, we go NEW VISIONS 101.01 through 387.04


EDit: Hi Steph :hi: :toast: :LTNS:

[Thtwudbeme]

7. Hi Opi!!!

Yeah, you got that right...we need to come up with something comprehensive-

But, we DO have them outnumbered-

[Der Blaue Engel]

10. "distractions and divisive shit IE Gay marriage, abortion"

Can you elaborate on this a bit? If you're saying that these issues are distractions and divisive and should be moved away from, I'd say that this attitude is precisely the problem.

We need to SUPPORT all of these issues. That's how we stand together. (And that doesn't mean refusing to vote for a Democrat who doesn't support all of these issues, it just means continuing to fight for these issues and seek candidates whenever possible who do support them.)

[opihimoimoi]

16. The DEMs can see through the smoke screen of divisive shit.....

its not so much US, its the Fence sitter GOPle who are divided into the GOP Fold.

Yes we too are divided into small factions but we seem to pull together come election time....and vote Blue

But for the Masses out there...divided is best for the PUBs.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

12. New vision:

Corporations are second-class citizens. No one else is, though.

Come, we drink from the public trough.

[Thtwudbeme]

15. I LOVE that!

Great line!

[eallen]

4. The problem is how to create political unity without ideological unity.

It's a very difficult problem. The GOP today has a high degree of ideological cohesiveness (the religious right), combined with a high degree of interest cohesiveness (K street). It is much more difficult to characterize who "we" are, except to say that "we" are everyone else: gays, seculars, liberals, leftists, greens, feminists, labor, etc.

I wish I knew the solution.

[Der Blaue Engel]

5. I don't think this is true

Especially:

"Gays don't march for blacks; they are angry about not having the same rights in society as heterosexuals.

Women don't care that much about Gays...they are busy trying to "have it all" and save their rights to manage their own gynecological affairs without the Christians fucking stuff up."

I see the GLBT and reproductive rights groups working together all the time, and working for all civil rights.

What I do see a lot of is groups expecting other groups to let their issues "wait" because they might make the centrists and moderates uncomfortable. Nobody's issues should have to wait.

[readmoreoften]

9. Agreed.

It's this constant need to appeal to 'the middle' (which right now is far right wing) that is the problem.

[readmoreoften]

8. This is a strange, ahistorical assessment.

Gays, women, and blacks are not mutually exclusive groups. There are black lesbians, for instance, who are all three. Plenty of queers continue to give a strong damn about african-american civil rights and labor issues. Many heterosexual progressives (african-american, white, latino, and asian) have joined in on the protest for gay rights.

What you will not get is the more centrist or even conservative elements of the party joining together: conservative black churches will not help gays, centrist gays may not care about labor rights.

But let it be understood:

All progressive women are not white
All African-Americans are not straight
All gays are not white and male.

Our interests intersect. Actually, our coalition is less fragile than the RW coalition of moderate corporatists and religious wackos.

[Just Me]

14. Look. If the extremists on the right-wing can unite (even though it's,...

,...been via total manipulation),...goshdamnit, surely we can.

We HAVE to set aside our different perspectives long enough to remove a power that WILL destroy every little advancement towards social and economic justice made over the last century.

NONE OF OUR PRINCIPLES WILL MEAN SHIT, if we fail to remove the regime in charge.

The only principle we should unite to exact is the removal of the clear and identifiable threat to our progress, to human progress.

Please,...please, let's commit to being focused upon removing the cancer that is destroying us all.

Please. Prioritizing your energy and principles upon extracting the Republican corporacrats DOES NOT NOT NOT violate fundamental ethics or morals or human compassion.