Anybody think we could have a 2nd Civil War due to the division

[texpatriot2004]

there is in this country right now? I am not advocating one and I don't know if it will happen but we are so divided (are we united yet) and it seems to be worsening. I know I sometimes think that fighting is the only way to deal with the illogical, irrational, erroneous, mindless babble from the other side. I don't fight, not physically anyway. I am firmly planted in my beliefs though and I think the other side is as well. This is quite bothersome since they don't respond to fact or reason. I just wonder sometimes what will become of our United States, do you?

[DanCa]

1. Not now but when they dissolve Roe or if by some miracle they dont

Thats what I think is going to happen. Religious one upmanship is a very dangerous game.

[Erika]

14. If they overturn Roe V Wade, there will indeed be a revolution

because the right wing won't stop there. They will go after birth control next.

[kestrel91316]

65. Yep, and eventually they will bring back death by stoning for adultery.

Mark My Words.

[NMMNG]

87. I saw an interesting proposition today in "The Week"

Forget worrying about having SCOTUS determine whether or not to overturn Roe v. Wade. Have a nationwide, state by state vote on it. Tally up and combine all of the votes from each state to determine for the nation whether Roe v. Wade would stand or be overturned. Then the people can finally quit having this ongoing bitch-fest about it. The reality is, the majority of America wants to keep abortion legal (with limits on third-trimester abortions). This would put an end to the mess once and for all.


Edited for clarity

[iamjoy]

2. The Differences Are Not As Regional

as they were in the first half of the nineteenth century

[IowaGuy]

25. good point.....not much point to an armed conflict if there

is no territory to defend or seize-hard to organize, also....unfortunately, I wouldn't be surprised to see more low levels of terrorist activity from fringe groups and individuals from the extremes of both the right and the left....we already have seen such nonsense i.e. Oklahoma, Olympic bombing, from right wing groups....lower level stuff but still terrorism from some left wing environmental groups ...vandalism of equipment and spiking of trees. And go figure where the Anthrax crap came from? Inquiring minds would like to know....

My fear is that this type of activity could become more common place, especially when we have political leadership that is so much more focused on exploiting our differences and content to use slash and burn tactics against their opponents rather than dealing with those that disagree with them through civil discourse and debate.

[texpatriot2004]

35. I could see a sort of idealogical territory that people from both

sides felt a need to defend. I don't think it has to be physical territory, you know?

[IowaGuy]

85. yeah, I see your point...I just think the organizational

elements needed for a full blown civil war would demand the massing of resources to be directed at another central authority....at this point, since we are so intermingled it would be difficult to organize, fund and maintain....that is why I think we will probably have a greater likelihood of having low level terrorist activities being directed at political opponents.

[readmoreoften]

60. Maybe this is why there is no war at the moment.

Because we live among one another.

I am concerned, however, that when the civil war starts we will be the side that is unprepared, unarmed, and unaggressive.

Everyday I ask myself: when the regressives come to your door with guns and baseball bats, will you be prepared to defend yourself?

So far my answer is no, but I'm workin' on it.

[texpatriot2004]

36. I could see a sort of idealogical territory that people from both

sides felt a need to defend. I don't think it would have to be physical territory, you know?

[bigmonkey]

3. In a word,

yes. Not yet, but that's the trend. I'm with you, though, I'm not fighting in it, I'm trying to turn the thing around before it gets to that point.

[PatrioticLeftie]

4. Not really

More like a revolution, but mostly inside (doors that is).

[mmonk]

5. With unchecked

and unaccountable power and the attempts at more control and militarization of society, I would think things are becoming more and more ripe. I have thought recently that maybe America would be better off if it were divided into two or three states so I could go back to living in what I thought was a free society by choosing the free one.

[Ksec]

6. The divisions ARE worsening.. set in stone

And those bastards will never know the truth so I can see a civil war. Its really not difficult to envision.

[pitohui]

7. sure

it's a lot more likely than this silly avian flu little caligula is pretending to be all stressed abt

[golden voyages]

8. I think it has already started, economically.

Many have begun fighting this battle with their $$$.
http://buyblue.org

:applause:

[texpatriot2004]

47. I do that buy blue. Will there be a have v have not kind of war?

I have always thought that could happen where their was a civil war of sorts between the haves and the have nots (and the have nots are in the majority).

[GraysonDave]

9. I think a revolution is more likely than a civil war

The dissolution of our government is a certainty. The only uncertainty is how much upheaval it will take.

[thecodewarrior]

15. Don't forget

That you can't exactly just leave to another country and get your freedom back. Big brother TIA technology is all over the place, from RFID to red light cameras. Just about every country will nearly end up the same high tech electronic dragnet and living in a mind set of a prison without bars. Or 1984 is not a localized problem its global.

[Ready4Change]

42. There may be little difference.

The US Civil War was fought by states against states.

The French Revolution was lower class against upper class.

Both were bloody as hell.

If we can't get this done via elections or impeachment, the alternatives aren't pretty. I'm still praying we can avoid the alternatives.

[pro_blue_guy]

10. Oh my...

No civil war.

[madinmaryland]

11. Highly unlikely,

too many chickenhawks.

[Jersey Ginny]

12. Civil war-no, but wingnut domestic terrorism is a worry

The wingnut commentators support assasination of world leaders-O'leily supported the assasination of Syria's pres yesterday. They call for killing judges, doctors etc. These wack jobs throw gasoline on numerous wingnuts who might take action if they think their country is "threatened" by birth control pills or nudie pictures or gay people. These people ought to be taken seriously by the FBI.

[kestrel91316]

66. Some of them make it pretty clear they just want all of US dead.

[VADem11]

13. No

I don't think the divide is as nearly as great as there was during the civil war. Back then, the country was still relatively young and far weaker and less united. I just can't see a situation where a war results and I don't think anyone on either side of the divide would ever want one.

[Erika]

16. I CAN see the day when social conscience is reborn

and workers and the poor demand a decent living with basics. I can foresee strikes and refusal of the working class to pay taxes only to have those taxes funneled into tax cuts for the rich and insane and imperialistic wars.

[VADem11]

18. I agree

with what you're saying. I just don't think that the country could spiral into war.

[niallmac]

29. I like your vision. It's the only one I can allow myself

to have.
War will be a lose lose for our side. It will be the excuse Big Brother has been waiting for to have his coming out party. 'They' have all the guns no matter what 2nd amendment Bubba thinks.

The job of the left is to educate the dummied down working class. This country is so damn exciting because all it asks is that you take charge of your own destiny. Unions are one big avenue to equality for the working class. Never mind the mob union connection. There will always be
the two leggeds who take advantage. Besides, looking at the world today, I dearly miss my mob run union that had no compunctions about saying "Screw You" to the bosses.
Who speaks for the wage earner now, the compassionate conservative?

[texpatriot2004]

50. I like your vision too. n/t

[AmandaRuth]

17. I wonder what is going to happen if wages keep dropping

and costs keep going up.

Especially if the "Grover drown it in a bathtub" types keep having their way. Off hand I can think of several people who work full time but depend on food banks, or other government programs such as WIC or supplemental state health care to get by. It seems like if things keep trending the way they are, it will eventually break down society.

The other day I was riding around with my cool-aid drinking brother and SIL, and talking current event type stuff - they practically yelled out THE ECONOMY IS GREAT - THERE ARE SO MANY JOBS!. Oh yeah, I said, but what do these jobs pay - how can people live off of $7.50 an hour?

Then, because they irritated me, I started counting the Check Express, Fast Cash type places we passed by, I was up to 10 before we got home. I am not kidding, at one point, we passed 4 in 2 blocks. If you ask me, all this legal loan sharking is a mark of something wrong somewhere in a economy.

[texpatriot2004]

51. If wages keep dropping and decent jobs keep going away.

Good point about the legal loan sharking.

[hfojvt]

63. but that is where the jobs are

ten places. Think of all the people employed in the productive industry of ripping people off. They provide a service that society apparently values. I had a renter who paid a grocery store $15-20 or more to cash his paycheck. Do that all year and you are out $390 for something that I have always gotten for free at a bank.

[Just Me]

19. No. However, an uprising against the evolving empire may become,...

,...more likely.

[SnoopDog]

20. The real battle is we the citizens vs our government.

We have been abandoned by our government. They have ruined our environment and have taken away our prosperity. They keep us alive only to pay taxes and do the little jobs.

There are only about a dozen real Democrats who really look out for us.

Besides that, we are on our own.

I am ready...

[Silverhair]

21. No.

The logistical situation for a new civil war is impossible.
The rebels lose before they get organized.

[KLF44]

22. Bush is a uniter not a divider

remember? He told us so himself.

[The Backlash Cometh]

23. I think it's already happening.

I think the Republicans have been playing for all the marbles and breaking every rule in the book to win since 1994. I think they've crapped on our constitution and perhaps the biggest indication that we're at war, is that their side doesn't care how they pull it off.

[texpatriot2004]

52. Yeah, I can see that. Many people on this thread aren't

commenting about this factor or what I intended to get at...the citizen v citizen issue. I think you make a good point about them using the ends to justify the means and the effect it has on others.

[The Backlash Cometh]

80. If we can make a case and present it to the mainstream that they

stole those two elections then we can prove that we've been overtaken by evil forces who were always planning to go into Iraq, and later Iran & Syria. It's obvious that Saudi Arabia and Israel stand the most to benefit from this insanity.

The question will be, what is going to stop us from participating in a revolution to take it back and set things straight again?

I think Bush knows that this day will come, and that's why he's fighting tooth and nail to change the law so he can have control of the military on domestic soil through posse comitatus. He brought it up regarding NOLA, and now he's bringing it up in regards to the bird flu. He doesn't care how it happens, but he knows what he'll do with that power, once he gets it. He did it to the Dems when he got their approval to go fight in Iraq, and he will do it to them again, because they are stupid, stupid, stupid.

[texpatriot2004]

82. I'm interested in your comment about Israel and Saudi Arabia...

what exactly is there relationship I have been wondering?

I noticed that too, the trend, first NO for expanded military now the bird flu - is anyone catching on here?

[Just Me]

57. And, the BushCO's exploitation of the minority extinguishes civil war,...

,...and advances a revolt againt such exploitation.

I enjoy watching the inevitable DEATH of those who negotiate power over others,...'cause the power-mongers, ultimately can NOT negotiate.

When they defeat eachother, while we simulataneously take a stand for humanity,...perhaps, we will rejoice BY CHOICE! *LOL* We will discuss plans for a better human day.

Yes?

[The Backlash Cometh]

81. Only Fitzgerald has the ability to steer this country away from a

disasterous collision course that it's presently on. Only if the Dems and independents can see our system actually work to restore itself. If it doesn't, what other options are left? The right will continue to look the other way as minorities are killed through natural disasters. Can you imagine what would happen if the bird flu comes into an immigrant intense city? Or an inner city? Do you think the rest of white America will even care that they extend the quarantine to include all the poor area around it?

[KAZ]

24. Over simple political differences? No.

But if these mush-for-brains fundies continue to erode our efforts toward curing disease(stem cell), continue to force their god down everyone's throat(commandments in the square), and continue to threaten my wife and sisters with their anti-choice horseshit, I'll gladly join the battle. If not addressed, this will fast become a class of cultures that has typically only been redressed by the worst in us. My line is drawn. So is their's. Think there's a common ground?

[texpatriot2004]

53. I don't know if there is a common ground. Really. I like to think so

but when I talk with the other side, they are insufferable. They aren't reasonable or even informed...so I don't know, how about you? Do you think there is common ground?

PS Glad to hear you stand up for your wife and sisters.

[karlrschneider]

26. My 89 year old mom, a Repug until 5 years ago has been telling me

that we need a 'revolution.' She's never been intensely political but worked for the GOP since she was a youngster but recently is becoming somewhat activist against what she's seeing as the perversion of her party. I've been shocked at some of the words she's used recently, including the F word. And mom's no dummy, she actively trades stocks most every day. I am non-plussed, to say the least. :-)

[texpatriot2004]

54. Good for her. It is a "perversion" of her party. Her party was

hijacked IMHO. My husband was a life-long Republican until this lying lunatic * came along in 2000.

[chknltl]

27. The more the right wakes up the less likely this will happen.

IMHO Education is key here, nobody becomes enlightened when shouted at, I suggest calm dialog will work better. I realize that calm dialog can never gain us everyone who wishes to remain stupid but it can sway more votes our way than shouting matches can. Not every republican has to be our enemy! Many of these guys are just as passionate as we are when it comes to preserving Democracy. They feel that we are the misguided ones, just as we feel the same about them. I believe that we hold the high ground here if it comes down to calm dialog and fact checking. If you try this 10 times and you sway even one vote... well that would be one less vote for the bad guys. Maybe even get that person here into the Democratic Underground, barring flamers we should be able to create a new Dem.
The polls show the tide turning, I believe we should encourage this.

[KAZ]

32. Oh chknltl, I used to agree with you, so much.

I've spent countless months on other forums trying to carry that point of view. Provided arguments, facts, and links, all to little avail. You are right in many respects, some do listen. But my forum soapboxing is small compared to the Hannity/Rush onslaught they are exposed to every day across AM America.

However, maybe I'm living in the past. It seems like things are changing, looking at the latest polls. But I fear these polls are fickle. Our public is poised to be thrown completely over the edge by one, perfectly placed, "happening".

[chknltl]

45. Well you did not flame me....

...thanks. I was worried one of my fellow DUers was gonna accuse me of being a freeper-hugger or some such. I believe that things ARE conspiring to open chinks in the armor of honest republicans. This current admin does not represent the views of hardened republicans. They want less spending, smaller less invasive government and above all a preservation of American Democracy. These particular goals are not being met, no spin can change that. I can think of three republicans whom I have a great deal of respect for, I am working on them and I believe I have a good chance of swaying their votes in the next election.

[texpatriot2004]

55. Yes, the polls do show the tide turning. Thank goodness. n/t

[malaise]

28. You cannot promote a foreign policy

which divides up other people's countries for your own national interest and assume that people in your own country won't follow your ideas. I have wondered about secession and a break up of the US since the breakup of the USSR and the Czech Republic. History tells me that nothing is impossible.

[Disturbed]

31. Probably not.

There are Dems, Libertarians, Socialists, Paleo Conservs that see Fascism rising. These groups and others will ban together on this issue. The Fundie and ultra-RWingers are not as strong as most believe that they are. The masses of Amerika are slowly percieving that the NeoCons and RWingers are not good for them. The side issues will be set aside in lue of survival.

[onenote]

64. situations aren't remotely comparable

The USSR divided along lines that had historical roots and identities; in other words the republics that broke away were fairly united. Not so here. There are nearly as many repugs as dems in many "blue" states.

onenote

[JaneGat]

30. When Rush says that Dems should be buried and the VP of the U.S.

agrees on (inter)national radio, the future doesn't look very bright.

[Hello_Kitty]

77. That scares me to death!

Really. Much as I'd like to see a liberal Dem majority I can't imagine just wanting to completely do away with, no...destroy, the opposition party! That is horrifying. And what's worse is, they're just talking about the politicians either. They want to destroy all of us who disagree with them! :scared:

[Walt Starr]

33. Only if the Democratic Party regains power

then we will be witness to a violent terrorist war implemented by the hard right.

Fundamentalists are the same the world over. They all resort to violent terrorism when they don't get their way.

[Hardrada]

34. We don't have enough gasoline or even horses for that stuff.

And most people I know wouldn't give a rat's patootie about anything "political" anyway.


The tsar fell in spite of the revolutionaries who were in exile and busy sniping at each other. The people wanted food and the troops stepped aside and let them have it. The officers lost their power and that was that for Nicky Romaov and clan. Romanovs were a LOT more entrenched than the neocons will ever be.

[AintIgreat]

37. Maybe then california can leave the union

[QC]

39. Will they take Arnold, Dreier, B-1 Bob, and the rest with them? n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

49. nah yuo can have them

throw them over the border.

;-)

[JanMichael]

38. Yes I do however I doubt for the right reasons or causes.

If the goal is to maintain a corrupt, screw the Workin Class, crappy healthcare, acceptably high Poverty, pre-Bush era America then count me out.

[Ready4Change]

40. That's one of my concerns.

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."

John F. Kennedy, In a speech at the White House, 1962

If there's no risk of Civil War, why is this administration preparing for the opening shots?

They've floated several trial balloons regarding how much military force they can get away with using here on our own soil. Not how much they are ALLOWED to use. How much they can get away with.

Hurricane? Bird Flu? Riots? You can almost hear them saying: "New Orleans was just awful. Wouldn't it be prudent to take every measure we can to avoid that elsewhere?"

These probes need to be met with instant, firm, resounding NOs! The peace of our nation depends on it.

[texpatriot2004]

56. Indeed! Resounding NOs. BTW I love JFK, brilliant man truly. n/t

[mmonk]

41. Think of what has happened so far

I mean, even churches have thrown out democrats! Torture and pre-emptive aggression is policy. Removal of the safety net is underway. Civil liberties are being erased as well as federal protections to equal protection under the law. Martial law keeps being mentioned even though there's no violence in the streets. If there is no type of rebellion to all this, then there is only surrender.

[TechBear_Seattle]

43. Thomas Jefferson would have advocated one

"We have had 13. states independent 11. years. There has been one rebellion. That comes to one rebellion in a century & a half for each state. What country before ever existed a century & half without a rebellion? & what country can preserve it's liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon & pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it's natural manure."

-- letter to William S. Smith, Paris, November 18, 1787, speaking of Shays Rebellion.

http://odur.let.rug.nl/~usa/P/tj3/writings/brf/jefl64.htm

[texpatriot2004]

58. I agree I think Thomas Jefferson would have. Another great

man and a true patriot.

[Arkham House]

44. It Depends

It depends on what you mean by "civil war". If you mean Lee outflanking a Union Army, with rules more-or-less agreed to and a relatively honorable fight--then, no, certainly not. If you mean a miserable, Northern Ireland type of conflict where desperate groups of people strike at their enemies in a dirty war of terrorist attrition--then certainly it *can* happen. I can easily foresee a situation where the Left engages in low-level guerrilla was against the Right Machine, with an increasingly ineffectual "official" Democratic opposition "deplores" everything and is even so barely tolerated by the Establishment, their core base withdrawing into apathy and silence, with an appreciable percentage silently supporting the terrorists/freedom fighters/whatever you want to call them. Such a situation would inevitably descend into more-or-less open fascism. The only "hope" in such a situation would be an outright military coup, which I think is about a 50% possibility sometime in the next 50 years. (Can a coup happen here? Certainly. It nearly did in 1876, the Hayes-Tilden race, 1896, if Bryan had been elected, 1933 against FDR, and 1962 against JFK in the Missile Crisis...and Dallas doesn't bear too much examination...) But if there is ever a coup, I think it may be *against* the Right. The Right hardly needs to mount one against any Democratic regime, given their monopoly of the media...

[Bravo411]

46. More like an Insurgency ...

Since those that would rise up in arms against the government are spread out over a large geographical area, there could be no way that they would ever be able to form a united front. But small groups (cells) acting on their own could inflict serious damage. Just take a look at Iraq if you don't think they can. The real question is what will be the straw that breaks the camels back? Or will this be a slow gradual movement?

Also, who would you shoot at? What would be defined as the enemy of the people?

Hell, I say we just bum-rush the White House and Congress.

(Note: I'm not really advocating this course of action but present it for the sake of discussion.)

Edited for spelling.

[kestrel91316]

67. Well, if our enemy is the religious whack jobs, guess we all know

where to find them on a Sunday morning, all in one place. The fundie churches.

[nadinbrzezinski]

48. Yes

all civil wars are preceded by a period of cold war, which we have been engaged in since at least '96

I can almost smell the poweder now

[texpatriot2004]

59. NadinB where does your name come from? Are you...were you

a military person? You seem so knowledgeable about that part of our history.

[nadinbrzezinski]

61. I am a histiorian by training

I do have an MA :blushes: and I do know US history... (as well the history of the Enlightenment in Mexico... fascinating topic actually)

Nominally I was a member of somebody else's military (medical corp) and my husband retired after 20 from the US Navy

[texpatriot2004]

68. Well, how about that (I say smiling) I totally got your gender

wrong. Isn't that funny here at DU how easy it is to get an idea of someone in your head and then...poof, I'm wrong. Funny. People here mistake me for a man too. Must be all that male energy I have lately.

Anyway, Master's in history from where? I only ask because I may be in the market for a Masters degree. Hope I am not being too nosy.

What exactly is the Enlightenment in Mexico?

[nadinbrzezinski]

71. MA in History from San Diego State

and if you are planning on it, go for the PhD, not worth the hassle to just get the masters, as the job market is... bad

Mexico had an enlightenment just like the US and Europe. The Revolution (and this does not conform to the creation myth in Mexico) was led by thinkers such as Fray Servando Teresa de Mier (the last man to ever be prosecuted by the Inquistion in 1916 by the way)... because of this much of the early republic looked like a bad copy of the US experience, including a Constitution that was a copy of the US Constitution... but failed miserably.

But there were thinkers, many of them, talknig about freedom and liberty and equality and the right of men (yes men) to rule themselves, and for kings not have this right.

[texpatriot2004]

74. I see. Thanks for that. The job market is bad for everyone

every where in the US it seems.

[readmoreoften]

62. We already kind of have it.

It will be like gay-bashing, only even more prevalent. Gay will be expanded to 'liberal' and they will come at us with bats, knives, and god knows what. Then we'll have to fight. We'll need each other for back up.

I see it coming to the streets eventually.

[loudsue]

69. Wait 'til about 6 months after the economic bottom falls out, and all

those happy republicans are eating on dirt floors. A couple more hurricanes and/or earthquakes, maybe a terrorist bomb or two, coupled with what is about to happen to our economy, and there will be a wake-up America mood that will make the Iraq war/Katrina revelations pale by comparison.

They won't be fighting us...we'll all be on the same team, and the media won't be able to spin it no matter how hard they try. At that point, the mafia-owned government we've been supporting with our tax dollars will be in deep shit!!

Two cents.



:kick::kick::kick:

[texpatriot2004]

79. I think you're right about that. n/t

[natrat]

84. i hope it turns that way

[Sin]

70. Well right now.

Its a cold war.. a cold war of ideas and ways of living. one side pushes to gets its way of life and ideas engraved into law to make the other sides ideas and ways of living, illegal, punishable, or unavailable also in doing that making there dubious actions legal.

Some said that the fringe on both sides will heat up quicker and give way to violence by ratcheting it up through minor instances at first to bigger ones later as the divisions worsen.

Now there are really no land sides as it was said like the first civil ( No Grey and Blue) war theres no dividing line with people that believe one thing on one side and others on the other were all mixed So one day there will be a spark something that triggers one side or both and they just might raid a courthouse and or voter Bord and get the rolls Names and addresses and then they might start to carve out a bit of land to defend by taking care of any one with the wrong letter at the end of the line.

+ It won't be just a fight against the government as you can see no matter how bad one is some people will still blindly support it and in turn they will fight for it ( in one way or another) so it will be American vs American at which point, it will be civil war and not revolution.

Do I see it happening now don't know maybe then again it didn't happen in the 60s and even thoe I wasn't alive at the time ive read and saw how divided we were and it did not happen.Then again it was peace love and happiness in most cases.

Times have changed and thats not the ruling factor of the day because the counter culture is common place ( no sexual revolution and drugs are everywere) and my generation has been spoon fed on solving our problems violently.

So the question of if we will have a second civil war isn't the one you should be asking it will come When is what I'm wondering and how.

[Erika]

75. The 2nd civil war may be coming this winter

as the middle class and low income can not afford the heating bills while W's energy friends have never seen higher profits or enjoyed a higher living standard. People have had enough of this feed the rich at the cost to the working class and the low income. We're sick of the rich republican elitists condemning our country to a banana republic. I detest their minions even more.

[Dan]

72. Question:

At what point does current/or some future government no longer reflect the values of this nation?

At what point does enough become too much.

If Mr. Bush decides to nuke Iran....do we accept that and what are the alternatives?

I suspect that a lot of American in some ways like the good Germans citizens preceding WWII - at what point does the government and its leadership cross the line into something so foul that you have no choice? With each new revelation - do you move the 'line' for acceptable behavior - so as to maintain the Union. It is a question that I consider each and every day, with each new revelation about this administration.

And having said that....what does a person do?

[Az]

73. It all depends on some unfortunate things

It really is a case of an unstoppable force striking an unmovable object. Our progressive society being the unstoppable force and dogmatic religious authority being the unmovable object.

I do not see either side giving in. No matter which side gains control of governance the other side will find it intolerable. Eventually the tension will lead to conflict.

Even if we remain balanced as we are now it still creates an intolerabel situation. The upshot of the battle is the demolition of our system of government. Simply put nothing productive can come about with such opposes systems trying to destroy the progress of the other side. The only thing that works, and happens to be easier to do, is destroying the strong federal government and working over local governments one at a time.

Even then there will be conflict.

The only way I see through this issue is if one side experiences a natural atrophying due to social pressures. It may not seem like it but the religious right and specifically religious fundamentalism is on the ropes. It is in part why they are fighting so tenaciously in the US. Simply put there are so many aspects of modern society striking at its foundations that it must either strike back or perish.

Thus the question becomes does the system hold together long enough to weather this particular zealous storm? Or is their pact with the corporate conservatives (another faith based group) sufficient to topple the federal government?

[Erika]

76. No, I couldn't stand some Bushbot telling me trickle down would work

I'd kick him where it really hurt. I've had enough of GOP oppression under the umbrella of compassionate conservatism. They are a useless group of trash.

[texpatriot2004]

78. Quote from Voltaire about absurdities and atrocities.

Quotable

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.
– Voltaire

[Bravo411]

83. Excellent Quote n/t

[texpatriot2004]

86. Thanks. Isn't it an appropriate quote for these days? n/t