3500 Christians embrace Hinduism in Etah

[Walt Starr]

3500 Christians embrace Hinduism in Etah
Press Trust of India

Etah, October 2, 2005

As many as 3500 Christians from 81 villages adopted Hinduism in Etah on Sunday.

<snip>

http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/181_1507312,0008.htm

If you want to see some head explosions over this, go here:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1495448/posts

[CBGLuthier]

1. Wow

And I thought the freeps were ignorant about OUR country. More BS in the first 20 posts than I have seen in weeks.

[Ladyhawk]

2. Trading one fallacy for another.

At least Hindus don't come knocking on my door trying to convert me, or pretend to be my friend and then use the relationship to proselytize.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

What about the guys in orange at the airport?

Aren't they Hindus? They are rather aggressive.

[manic expression]

14. Yes, but no

They would tell you that they are not Hindus. However, they are Hindus...but in such a way that one could make the argument that they are not.

Hinduism is a VERY diverse religion, with many groups and philosphies. ISKCON, or the Hare Krishna movement, is just another group with different views and practices from other Hindus. It is predominately American, by the way.

I guess you could say they are like what different Protestant churches are to the Anglican traditions, they came from that establishment and have similar views, but are very different in many ways.

Hope that helps.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

21. The Anglican reference is apropos today

in Tallahassee because the big "mother" Episcopal church split right down the middle over the weekend. This is the church of plantation owners, doctors, lawyers and Indian chiefs. (literally) The priest is taking both his assistants, half the congregation and 12 out of 14 vestry members and opening a new Anglican parish. It seems that one of the folks moving with him bought an entire church for them to use as they get started!

I guess the issues stem from the Gene Robinson ordination and also dogma issues.

There are articles on www.tdo.com

[SoCalDem]

22. All the hare krishnas I have ever met, just want you to BUY their stuff

they are not likely to even try to convert you,They are there to hand out their literature (probably have a quota) and sell flowers etc..

The ONLY people I have ever met who really tried to convert are of the christian variety..

[fujiyama]

15. They aren't quite Hindus in a usual sense

You could consider them the Jehovah's Witnesses of Hinduism. It's one sect or branch.

Most Hindus wouldn't bother going around proselytizing.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

17. Ah... great analogy. Now I get it.

They are usually such nice guys.

[manic expression]

19. Please....

if you want to start THAT conversation, do it somewhere else (and PM me when you do). Just know that there is more than enough logic backing it up, quite the contrary to fallacy: it is reality.

Also, Hindus are some of the most tolerant people you will EVER meet. The notion of religious lines is unheard of for them. You will find Hindus who pray in Churches because they like the atmosphere. If you want to diss their faith, fine, but know that you are beyond wrong.

[Ladyhawk]

27. I wasn't looking to start a fight. I was merely stating my opinion.

And you have stated yours and I am very happy you are able to do so. I personally have no belief in a god (or gods). If you do, that's fine with me, as long as it doesn't impinge on the rights of others or my right to disbelieve.

Isn't it great that we can disagree on the subject of religion? That's what I want for our country. I long for the day when it doesn't matter if an American is Christian, Muslim, Hindu, atheist, etc. I want religion (or lack thereof) to be a personal issue. I'm tired of the government promoting fundamentalist Christianity. I wonder...does the government of India promote Hinduism? If so, that's equally wrong. (I don't have enough knowledge of India to know whether or not this is true.)

Obviously, I am not going to change your opinion. I am not even going to try. One thing I learned from my slow transition from fundamentalist to atheist is that I am not responsible for the beliefs of others. I will not go knocking door to door and lately I've even refrained from engaging in debate with various religious people. Their beliefs are their own. They arrive at their own decision and it isn't mine to make.

Merely stating one's opinion is not an affront to the opinions of others. I have no belief in gods. Your saying you do believe is no affront to me and that is the way it OUGHT to be.

Peace. :)

[manic expression]

29. Yes

It's good to express opinions and disagreements. I have not and will not disrespect the beliefs of a person. Believe me, I am among the first to stand up for the rights of atheists (or any other religious persuasion).

However, you said that theism is "fallacy", it is completely within reasonable behavior to dispute that. If anyone makes a statement I disagree with, I will make an argument against it. There's nothing wrong with that.

I do think theological discussion is not a bad thing. Active discourse and even criticism can help one see clearly. It is just like politics: such a discussion won't always be pretty or even civil, but it is very important to keep thinking and talking.

By the way, the Indian government does not promote Hinduism, it is strongly secular and has been so since independence (it is quite the opposite in Pakistan and Bangladesh).

[Ladyhawk]

30. If I am an atheist, does it not follow that I believe theism to be

a fallacy? If you are a theist, does it not follow that you believe atheism to be a fallacy? It's opinion. I wasn't making an ad hominem attack. Just because we both think the other person is wrong on this issue doesn't mean we can't respect each other in other ways.

You are quite right that some people feel free to discuss theology. And so they should if they are comfortable with it. I've decided I'm not one of those people. As a youngster I was told that I had to push my beliefs on other people. I'm not comfortable doing so anymore. I'll share my opinion if I'm in the mood, but it's not my responsibility to "show someone the light." As long as religious and non-religious people don't hurt each other, I don't see any reason to shove beliefs of any kind down another person's throat.

I'm sick to death of arguing about my atheism with fundamentalist family members. The truth is, I'm very comfortable with my beliefs and no longer feel a need to defend them or engage others in discussion to prove them wrong. It's stressful and a waste of time...at least for me. Now that I've rid myself of the scourge of fundamentalism, I want to live a little.

[manic expression]

31. Sure

It's opinion, but I think it is fallacy (unnecessary allusion intended...:)) to simply call it such and leave it at that. There is more.

If you are only comfortable in expressing your beliefs and not arguing them further, that is ok. However, is there a responsibility in defending one's assertions after they are stated? If not to the people involved, to the ideas themselves? I answer those questions in the affirmative, but I would like to know what you think of them.

Of course there is no responsibility to show anyone anything, but it is the same as any other argument: very little is usually accomplished, but it is a good excercise nonetheless.

I completely understand the feeling of being burnt out over issues. It happens to me in other controversial topics from time to time. You're right to want to live.

[Shakespeare]

25. Actually, Joseph Campbell theorized that Hinduism is closer to science...

...than any other organized religion, as its mythology regards the origin of the universe.

Keep an eye out on PBS for the 2-hour Campbell piece (kind of an amalgam of his lectures on topic) called "Sukhavati - Place of Bliss: A Mythic Journey with Joseph Campbell," where he delves into this.

[phusion]

3. Wow, except for cults

I never realized Christians converted to another religion en masse.

I always thought it was Christians trying to bring others over to their faith.

:shrug:

[maxsolomon]

4. YAY! can our troops come home now?

wait: wrong religion

[pnorman]

5. "Wow. Etah spelled backwards is hate"

"Hate" is something they know very well over in Freeperland ... backward and forward.

pnorman

[11cents]

6. Christians in India have been under pressure from Hindu nationalists

This could well be a case of people in a rural community being bullied into conversion.

[Walt Starr]

7. It's none of my fucking business if that's what happened

It happened in India, so I don't give a flying fuck. I just like watching fundie heads explode over it.

[bryant69]

8. Interesting

Forced Conversion doesn't bother you?

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[Walt Starr]

9. Only in this country

In India it's India's problem. It bugs me on moral grounds (but nothing I can do about it) if that's what happened, but from the report, that's not what happened.

Find me something to show this was forced conversion, and it will bug me purely on moral grounds, but there is fuck all I can do about it as I have no standing in India.

[joefree1]

11. Yeah, it bothers me a lot, that's why as a pagan I'm fighting it here

In the USA Monotheism is shoved down our throats everyday. India is fighting a world wide conspiracy by the religious right to convert their citizens. While I don't agree with forced conversion I whole heartedly support their laws requiring foriegn Missionaries to register before coming to India.

"A cult is a religion with no political power." -Tom Wolfe

[manic expression]

20. Exactly

it's been done to Europe, Africa, the Americas...and now they're trying to do the same to India. Christianity and monotheism have destroyed many beautiful religions, cultures and great civilizations, and India is perhaps the only place where this hasn't happened (even though it almost did). It will not happen there, but it won't stop base missionaries from trying.

[manic expression]

16. Whoops....sorry,

but virtually all of conversions to Christianity are forced. For instance, after the tsunami, Christian missionaries arrived to a village that had been greatly hurt...and announced that they would only give food, water, supplies and aid if they CONVERTED TO CHRISTIANITY. In many parts of India, Christian-run hospitals refuse to treat any non-Christians, and exchange treatment for conversion. This is BUT A TASTE of the disgusting practices of Christian missionaries.

This is a case of a community that WAS bullied into conversion being taken back into the fold they should never have been forced out of.

By the way, RSS and other "Hindu fundamentalists" have grievences that are not very unreasonable, such as not being subjected to injustices I listed above.

[RethugAssKicker]

24. How the hell do you think they becam Christians in the first place?

Forced conversion!

[Bill McBlueState]

10. scotsman

They're taking the "No True Scotsman" fallacy even further than I've seen it go here.

"Well, if they converted from Christianity, then they were never TRUE Christians anyway!"

With all the people deemed Not True Christians by christians of all stripes, it's a wonder there are enough people left to *have* a religion.

[sam sarrha]

12. Hinduism is Really fun.. they have wonderful celebrations and social

gatherings...

my doctor in El Paso was a Hindu, Our Buddhist Group went to all the different religions celebrations.... Buddhists are great party crashers.... it was Krishna's Birthday.. i met hem there and he was REALLY Surprised.

The FOOD IS GREAT..!!

Christianity is sort of a Tribal Religion, especially here in the south. it really limits free thinking and Human evolution.

It is first Inclusive only and Limiting in many ways ..up to totally restrictive of outside ideas. The problem is that if any member is *Infected* with Trans-Personal thinking... they are gone forever. Once one views the suffering of others outside the confinements of the Tribe they can never *go back*... they become forever *Tribe-less*
My friends church would not allow anyone to read anything but the bible.. and not watch anything on TV/Radio/etc except religious programs... to prevent the Trans-personal shift in consciousness.

I remember when it happened to to me.. I was a prisoner of the Free Holiness Pentecostal Church as a child, i was 10 and ..I WAS SUICIDAL about going to another church meeting 4 times a week..

I remember crawling under a bunch of coats and stuff in the hall closet, i was going to commit suicide by GOD... I was convinced if i cursed god and denied him he would kill me.. and burning in hell was a better option than going to church again.. I told i hated him and cussed him.. i had my eyes tightly shut waiting for the inevitable and it didn't happen.. I had a Satori experience right there..!!

i realized i just had to fake it 8 more years and i saved my money for the big day i walked out of that house ,18 years old, to school and would never walk back into it.. I WAS FREE !!

I used the boy scouts to escape and science club and bicycle racing practice.. to stay out as much as possable..

I later became a Buddhist.

I feel that the MASS conversion was a result of the Missionary effort there.. they probably were just going back..

[RedCloud]

13. Misread Etah for Utah

I thought, now we can give our fundies something to get steamed about.

[NorthernSpy]

18. me too! kinda disappointed that "Etah" wasn't a typo...

It would have been very interesting. From a spectator's point of view...

:D :popcorn:

[gauguin57]

23. Aw, hell. Now I'm gonna be singing the old song, "Hindustan" all day!

Hindustan, where we stopped to rest our tired caravan.
Hindustan, where the painted peacock proudly spread his fan
Hindustan, where the purpled sunbird flashed across the sand.
Hindustan, where I met her, and the world began.

[Cats Against Frist]

26. Actually, if you read the whole freeper thread,

it's actually quite informative, and enlightening, and ends with people competing to smack down the Christo-fascists. Oddly, though, the one who ends up being the most open-minded, it seems, in the whole thread, is in charge of the "homosexual agenda" ping list. Odd.

[RPM]

28. good - maybe they will kill some christians too

those fuckers forget what it is truly like to be persecuted against...

see if you care arbout prayer in school when you are being fed to lions...

[Arkana]

32. What bigoted fucks.

They don't seem to grasp the fact (or accept the fact at least) that there are *gasp!* other religions than Christianity.