High Gas Prices and ANWAR...what they won't say.

[txaslftist]

Okay, so I'm listening to GGORDON this morning (forgive me) and he has the secretary of the interior on. They are discussing high gas prices and what must be done.

First they float the bullshit meme that high gas prices are the result of supply and demand, when the reality is that the gas prices are the result of collusion among the energy companies (which is why they want to kill Chavez, because he and Citgo won't play). This collusion is the result of lax enforcement of anti-trust regulations, which is another topic, but which some congressperson from Washington State made very clear on C-Span about three weeks ago.

Anyway, sure enough talk turns to ANWAR, and I start thinking (which is always dangerous, admittedly). They pushed ANWAR twice before and congress stopped them. Will congress stop them when gas is at 4.00 a gallon?

And if the BFEE and the House of Saud are close (and they are) and the BFEE and the energy companies are close (and they are), couldn't they artificially inflate prices (which they are) in order to push through ANWAR, which they really really want? Cause who do you think is going to profit from raping ANWAR? Oh yeah. Them guys.

So here's my proposal. Open up ANWAR for drilling, but only by an entity that is wholly owned by the US Govt; all profits go to paying down the deficit. If the gas prices really are driven by supply and demand, then the increased oil production will drive down price. If the gas prices really are driven by collusion and concentration of power, then all pressure to drill in ANWAR will stop if the guys applying the pressure can't profit from it.

[stopbush]

1. Is CITGO charging less for gas than everyone else?

I hadn't heard that.

[txaslftist]

3. Citgo is charging what the market will bear...

...the difference is that Chavez is opening up his oil markets to include China and Central and South America, instead of exclusively the US markets. It is, in effect, a revolution by Citgo against the other oil companies in this hemisphere.

Ergo, we must take him out to protect Exxon.

[johnaries]

2. No oil will come from ANWAR for 10 years, and it won't come to the US

it will be shipped to Asian countries. IF there's even any oil up there!

If we reduce our dependence on oil using multiple alternative energy sources, there's no need at all to rape ANWAR.

ANWAR should be completely off the table.

[stopbush]

14. What % of US-produced oil is sold abroad right now?

I did an websearch but came up empty. Anyone know?

[Blue_In_AK]

16. Thank you. I was going to point that out...

Any ANWR oil is slated for exportation to China. I believe I read that the grade is wrong for use in the US.

[Strelnikov_]

4. There Is Not Price Collusion On Petroleum / Natural Gas

There was a movement by refiners to close/consolidate refineries so as to minimize spare, and therefore un-utilized, capacity. When a supply problem arises, there is no spare capacity, and prices go up to create demand destruction.

Regarding petroleum (oil) and natural gas, we are at worldwide peak for the first, and beyond the North American peak for the second.

Petroleum, natural gas and refined product prices are set by open market commodity trading, just like corn and pork bellies. The problem is therefore one of supply, not price collusion. That is, manufactured supply constraints similar to OPEC (when they had excess capacity) and the California electric crises of 2000/2001.

The answer is therefore twofold. One, regulate refining by mandating 15% excess capacity at specified locations (for redundancy), and that all refined product is produced in the United States. Two, emergency launch of a 'Apollo' program for energy efficiency/alternates.

The heroin dealer can't make much money if most of the addicts have kicked.

Regarding ANWAR, my understanding is the major oil companies are not really interested due to the costs of arctic drilling and the rapidly deteriorating condition of the Alaska pipeline due to global warming. My understanding is that the existing pipeline is critical in making ANWAR somewhat cost effective.

[yella_dawg]

5. There are serious questions

as to whether ANWAR even has enough oil to make it worth producing. I suspect that ANWAR drilling is a smoke screen of some sort. It just keeps popping up as the solution to all the world's (energy) problems, when in fact, it is questionable at best.

[Strelnikov_]

6. Article I Read A Few Months Ago Made The Case ANWAR

is a gateway for opening up all the other restricted areas in the US for drilling (coasts, parks, etc.).

Oil companies are not that interested due to high (and ever increasing) costs.

On the other hand, Halliburton, being an oil services company, will be more than happy to drill using someone else's money. You probably know what I'm thinking . .

[noahmijo]

7. This is the simple case against ANWR summed up in one sentence

Proven reserves are about 10 billion, that is enough to reduce our dependency of foreign oil by about 3%


In other words not even close to being worth it.

[hatrack]

10. 10 billion if we're lucky

BP has already sold their leases and interests in potential drilling, and the ever-optimistic USGS has advanced the argument that there's about a 5% chance that the Refuge will contain maybe as much as 60% of what Prudhoe Bay did - and that's if we're very lucky.

ANWR and whatever oil lies beneath won't really matter a damn - that's the big picture that everyone keeps missing.

[louis-t]

11. By the time a drop of oil comes out of ANWR, demand will be higher

and it will only reduce dependency on foreign oil by 2%, I would guess.

[noahmijo]

12. you're WAY off

It's more like 3%

:evilgrin: :sarcasm:

[Jose Diablo]

8. Why not just nationalize the energy industry?

Remove the profit from the entire industry. Not just oil, but electricity generation, distribution and sales, all the natural gas distribution and sales. If its energy, then it's now owned and operated by the government. The 401's that have an interest in energy companies, well it's for the greater good. And the private investors, too bad.

Take all of it. The whole enchilada.

Edit: Eminent domain.

[noahmijo]

13. We cannot do that

Because if we do then Cheney will stage a coup and install "Neo-Shah" and make him ruler of America.

;)

[TheFarseer]

9. I don't know why people here are so high on Citgo

Yes they are from Venezuela, but they only charge about what everyone else does, and on buyblue I saw they gave 94% to repukes last year. Granted that is better than most oil companies, but still, come on!

[Lorien]

15. ANWR is another scam for Halliburtan profits

it will take ten years and billions in taxpayer $$ to get a few months of oil out of AMWR...for most of the state of California (three months was the last optimistic estimate I've read-even oil companies aren't excited about ANWR; it's more of a political blow against liberalism). Roads and infrastructure will need to be built-and guess who will get the no bid contract? Better to invest that money in RENEWABLE energy instead of lining Cheney & co. pockets more than we already have (not to mention that drilling would seriously compromise to ecosystem up there, and the planet can't afford more dysfunctional ecosystems).

[YapiYapo]

17. That won't even help for oil...

Total 4,210 (average production) 2,940 (lowest production) 7,480 (best production) in million barrels.

At best that's 374 days of US consumption or 93 days of world consumption.

http://www.eia.doe.gov/oiaf/servicerpt/ogp/methodology.html