A Few Questions for Intelligent Design Proponents.

[yella_dawg]

It's my understanding that you assert that the human form, all life forms, for that matter, are so complex as to require a designer rather than, as science assumes, life arising through random processes. First, do you have any understanding of Chaos Theory? It turns out random isn't what you think it is. Still, that's a matter for argument over a pitcher of cold beer some afternoon.

My big question is: have you ever had sinus problems? You think the human nose is an intelligently designed organ, you, sir (madam), are an idiot. I've threatened my mom with legal action for years, due to the miserable construction of my sinuses. Perhaps I should sue you instead. If you think sinuses are a miraculously wonderful creation, I need to educate you.

And how about the spinal column? Jeez. What an engineering disaster. Any back-yard tinkerer could do better. I've got five ruptured disks. I guarantee you, the spine is a design fuck-up of monumental proportions.

And then there is sex. While I approve of sex in general, there have been any number of times that I've thought that the equipment could be designed better. Particularly since the apparatus is effectively left "on" all the time. Really. Wouldn't it be better if you could turn off the "fertility" function when you needed to? Or at least you should be able to turn off the hormones. The fact that the whole system is running wide-open causes all manner of problems. Would you design a car with an engine that ran full throttle all the time, even sitting in the garage?

Seems to me that "Intelligent Design" is, in fact, "Dumb Design".

[DanCa]

1. My question is dont you get enough of that in your church and on tv

why must you feel you must save every one. If you want to save me pass stem cell and let me fuckin walk. You guys must really feel bad about the war you started and the killing of all those born and unborn iraqi babies.

[BlueJazz]

2. You Said >>

"While I approve of sex in general, there have been any number of times that I've thought that the equipment could be designed better. Particularly since the apparatus is effectively left "on" all the time".

Ohhh, I love it when you talk dirty.. :)

[DanCa]

I got poison's song talk dirty to me now running through my head now.

:rofl:

[HereSince1628]

3. Only an idiot would run a sewage outlet into a recreation area

I think that adequately disproves the intelligent part of I.D.

[eallen]

4. You need to ask this over on Free Republic....

Every thread over there that touches on biology or geology quickly turns into a debate over evolution. If anyone needs proof that that site is the land of the wackos and goofballs, those threads provide plenty.

[Ezlivin]

5. You need to download and install the latest patch from the Designer

I'm up-to-date as Human 2.03 (a bug fix for an extra testicle and a couple of new features like increased sensitivity to women's movies).

I was pretty unhappy with the Designer's 1.0 release. And don't get me started on the whole 1.1 SNAFU. I mean, who really requested the extra toes?

Make damn sure that you've got a back-up before you download and install. One of my prayers got stuck at the top of my skull and I had to back down to the previous version. Without a back-up I'd be pretty well screwed.

And to address some of your criticisms, remember that rumors have it that the 3.0 update will take care of all spinal cord issues. I've been waiting for that update as I've got an SCI and, as you pointed out, the original design really sucks.

[yella_dawg]

10. I'm on dial-up.

The download time is just horrendous.

[Ezlivin]

13. You need broadband prayer; try HeavenLink

Unfortunately, broadband prayer also means you get thousands of spurious prayer requests.

[atommom]

18. Not to mention all those nasty viruses and Trojans!

[yella_dawg]

19. I'm rural. Been thinking about a satellite link.

Is there a lot of spam?

[McKenzie]

6. Dearly beloved, we are gathered here today

to celebrate the short life of little XXXXX. It has pleased almighty god to strike her down with leukemia at 11 years of age. God works in mysterious ways, so mysterious that we cannot understand why he put her parents through utter anguish... etc etc

True story...happened to people I know. ID proponents...please explain the rationale.

[Az]

7. Spines

Seems our spines aren't really designed well for walking on two legs. Oh sure we get around ok. But wear and tear on them is far greater than if we walked around on all fours. Thus we get backaches and a host of other problems.

[Spinzonner]

8. If you plan s product liability suit against your mother

perhaps you could get together with any siblings and file a class-action suit

[BillZBubb]

9. Your question cuts both ways.

For instance, sinuses under evolution theory must exist for a reason. They didn't evolve for nothing, they offered some environmentally significant advantage; otherwise, they would have been weeded out of the genome.

So, to attack sinuses as useless or of poor design, also calls into question the evolutionary explanation. Whatever problems sinuses cause, they must have a significant beneficial role. So, neither evolution or ID can be called to task.

Intelligent Design doesn't necessarily require perfect design. Nor does evolution.

[yella_dawg]

14. I thought God was supposed to be "perfect".

So he can be a perfect God, but a lousy engineer?

Random means sometimes screwups happen.

[BillZBubb]

21. God may be perfect but it doesn't necessarily follow that...

God may be perfect but it doesn't necessarily follow that his designs need be perfect. You are also making the assumption that the "Designer" and God are the same. That also doesn't necessarily have to be the case.

Anyway, designs by the "Designer" may be imperfect for reasons not clear to us. The same can be said of the results of evolution.

I would also add that evolution is not a random process per se. It is pseudo-random. Selection occurs due to environmental conditions that for evolutionary purposes must be constant for a considerable period of time. In other words, the selection criteria are not really random.

[Spinzonner]

16. Perhaps, but explain the Appendix

and there's lots of obsolete genetic junk in the genome

[BillZBubb]

22. Why did the appendix evolve?

Evolution theory would require that it evolved to fulfill some meaningful function. The "Designer" could have put it there for the same reason.

Why hasn't it disappeared? According to evolutionary theory, it should have been selected against if it no longer fulfills any purpose. Is there any meaningful portion of the human population born without an appendix?

[yella_dawg]

24. I think you answered your own question.

However, I find it odd that the Designer would include a useless, even detrimental element in his creation.

As for why hasn't evolution selected it out? We're watching evolution in action. The appendix is the final vestige of a digestive organ no longer needed in an omnivorous creature, thus it is fading. If evolution were an intelligent entity, it might discontinue a useless organ. But since it is a process, the useless organ fades away since there is no positive reenforcement for its existence. The minor negative reenforcement (infection) does not force a rapid change.

[BillZBubb]

25. Hmm, I don't think either of us answered my question.

What evidence have you that evolution is removing the appendix? That was the crux of my question. We don't see humans born without an appendix too often. As far as I know there's not a lot of variation in appendices. There certainly is no physical evidence that the appendix is fading away.

As for a Designer leaving useless/detrimental elements in his/her creation, they are all around. Based on that, there is no reason to expect a Designer to make each creation perfect. It seems more logical to me that a Designer would include variation for whatever purpose--purposes we don't understand. That variation would lead to unhappy outcomes for some.

[readmylips]

11. My computer is intelligent design, it's science....

that other stuff the religious nuts are trying to sell is just that, RELIGION.

[tatertop]

12. don't forget knees... and teeth, they seem like dumb design to me

I don't suppose anyone will show up to argue with you.

[yella_dawg]

17. I meant to add something about teeth.

At least you ought to grow new ones every few years. I mean, the teeth go, the entire fuel system is screwed up.

[Mutley]

15. ID: The RW fundy way of trying to insert

religious dogma into science. Horrendous.

[Qibing Zero]

20. Yes, it's absurd as well as anything else

I still think the most pressing argument against it is that it's the antithesis of science - it prevents instead of promotes exploration and discovery.

You know, beside the fact it can't work within the scientific method whatsoever.

[Sabriel]

23. How about the fact that the important sexual stuff is out in the open?

Anyone who's ever fallen on a bicycle frame crotch-first knows there's no Intelligent Design at work there.

[stevietheman]

26. A good link: "Evolution for Creationists"

http://www.abarnett.demon.co.uk/atheism/evolution.html