Two DC protesters may have contracted TULAREMIA....

[file83]

To sum up what I'm about to tell you:

Two separate protesters from the September 24-25 anti-war protests in Washington DC may have contracted the Tularemia disease. They both think they are the only ones. They don't know about each other's stories.

In Depth:

(For background only, here is a Wasington Post article that describes the "detection" of Tularemia in DC.)


I was browsing through BradBlog.com when I ran across this random post in the comments of an unrelated topic by a reader named "Chrissy". This is her post, 8 days after the protest (10/2/05):

"I was at the march in DC last weekend. I started feeling tired by Monday and had to leave work early on Wed and haven't been back since. I've had flu like symptoms. Last night, my son, who lives in the DC area, called and told me about the news report of all of us being exposed to tularemia, which is treatable by antibiotics, but if not treated, could result in death. It took them a WEEK to report it?!!! This is our Homeland 'Security'?!! There were babies there for crying out loud. Has anyone else developed symptoms? I'm getting tested tomorrow. We need to scream loud and hard about this, there is no excuse for holding this information for a week."


The next day (10/3/05), "Chrissy" posts at the same thread:

"OK folks, I'll try not to post this twice this time. Sorry about that, I'm new to this so bear with me. I went to the doctor today, I had a fever, my BP was elevated and so was my white cell count. He told me the only way to know for sure if I have it is to test muscus from my lungs and I'm not coughing anything up although my chest is very tight. He said since I have all the symptoms he's going to treat me for it anyway and if I'm not better in 3 days I have to go back. He gave me cipro. So, that's the deal, I may or may not have it. I have something that is kicking my ass, that's for sure. Today is a week I've been sick."


Well, I read that and thought it was quite alarming, but there was no conclusion of "Tularemia", so maybe it was nothing. Plus, it seemed isolated. Then something very unusual occured that raised a red flag. Someone with the same symptoms got a confirmation of Tularemia in thier blood.

There is a blog reader I've been seeing around for some time that calls himself "sans-culotte" (I can't locate an email address for him). I've been blogging heavily now for over a year, and "sans-culotte" is a very level headed reader/commentator. He always reports factual information, writes intelligently, and never goes over board with stories, nor fabricates anything. In short, he's reliable.

Well, he went to the Washington DC protests, and he got sick with Tularemia. The FACTS of his story were so compelling that a "Moxigrrrl" posted this interesting article about it. Due to the length of that article, I will only show you the key element of "sans-culotte's" email in that story:

"Today the doc tells me that two separate "preliminary" tests done at a local lab confirmed tularemia, but a third "conclusive" test sent to a cdc lab turned up negative. I don't yet know which tests he was talking about. All of the other suspects, flu, cold (noravirus) bacterial meningitis, have been ruled out on all of the tests."


That is the information I have so far. I know that neither of them know about each other. I pass it along to you to pursue if you think the story has merit. I believe it does. I believe the CDC is covering up any evidence of Tularemian contraction. I can only speculate on their motives.

Does anyone have any more information on these two or any other people that think "they might be sick"???

[cdsilv]

1. ...and Tularemia is also known as 'the plague'

[Der Blaue Engel]

6. Where did you hear this?

I've Googled both, and I don't see any connection between tularemia and the plague, other than the fact that both could be used as potential bioweapons.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

19. It is not "the plague". Stop spreading dis-information.

[file83]

22. Thanks for policing the disinformation trolls...

I appreciate it.

[rasputin1952]

88. While this is indeed a potentially serious situation...it is hardly

a 'plague' at this point. I have the sneaking suspicion that the 'fear mongers' of the administration have their hands deep in this. What better way to keep people out of DC to protest the Admin other than saying you might get some horrid disease?

Methinks this may be an out of proportion thing, simply because it popped up so suddenly, and is getting widespread press. At this point, there is no real reason to worry...:shrug:

caveat: This post is NOT intended to gloss over a potentially serious situation; if you were there, and feel you need medical attention because of symptoms, I strongly urge you seek such attention! There is always a potential for serious situations to develop.

[Blue_In_AK]

24. The plague is "bubonic" n/t

[kestrel91316]

56. Well, not quite. Plague is the name for the Black Death, which wiped out

Europe in the Middle Ages. It is caused by Pasteurella pestis (maybe it has a different name now, they change them sometimes). It comes in three distinct forms: bubonic (you get big black pus-filled lymph nodes and a lot of the time you get dead if your doctor doesn't diagnose and treat quick enough), pneumonic (you get pneumonia and then you get dead), and septicemic (you get the bacteria circulating in your bloodstream and then you get dead).

We have sylvatic plague here in SoCal - that's where it is endemic in the ground squirrels in the foothills. Many years ago a vet in Tujunga got pneumonic plague from a sick squirrel some kid brought in. He got dead, too.

Occupational hazard in my line of work, so I know a lot about it.

[Blue_In_AK]

64. Well, be careful out there... n/t

[kestrel91316]

72. I have a cat hospital. Hope I never have a plague kitty come in

because I may not have plague on my mind when treating it........and it's such a huge public health PITA if you get a case. Everybody who got NEAR the cat has to go on prophylactic antibiotics, and deal with the health dept, etc.

[Kailassa]

105. I love the way you put things,

but, being a vet, you wouldn't know about the Red Plague that is rampant at the moment. Luckily it doesn't affect animals apart from a chimp, a few pigs, rats and maggots.

[XanaDUer]

27. Definition...

Tularemia (also known as "rabbit fever") is a infectious disease caused by the bacterium Francisella tularensis. The disease is endemic in North America, and parts of Europe and Asia. The primary vectors are ticks and deer flies, but can also be spread through other arthropods. Rodents, rabbits, hares and ticks often serve as reservoir hosts. The disease is named after Tulare County, California.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tularemia

[mitchtv]

59. thank you, I was getting confused

Rabitt fever, was my first thought. Bubonic plague from the rat flea, is also endemic to No California. there is also a "valley fever" in Sonoma County

[Kailassa]

106. To clarify what 'infectious' does not mean in this case ...

Tularemia can not be caught person to person, at all, ever. So if anyone thinks they contracted it on the march, rest assured nobody can catch it from you.

"Tularemia is not spread directly from person to person."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tularemia

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

30. THE plague was/is Yersinia Pestis.... n/t

[kestrel91316]

58. Thank you for the name, I forgot the Yersinia (it used to be Pasteurella).

I HATE when they rename bacteria, it's a pet peeve of mine.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

70. Only reason I knew it was a short story I researched which had

a plague that I called Yersinia Pestis 2B.

It ate through the corpus cassalum (sp?) and caused some really strange behavior.

[kestrel91316]

73. That would be "corpus callosum". I forget what it does, lol. But

I can SPELL IT. lol

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

78. LOL... I remember what it does, but I can't spell it!...

Ironically, it kinda lets the two sides of the brain work with each other...

[Tesha]

97. That connects the right and left hempispheres of the brain, IIRC. (NT)

[kestrel91316]

55. FALSE. Misinformation, cdsilv. Plague is caused by Pasteurella pestis.

Tularemia is caused by Francisells tularensis. They are two different bacterial pathogens entirely.

Naughty cdsilv. NO SCAREMONGERING!

[alarimer]

100. no it isn't

they are caused by different organisms.

[Atman]

2. Donning my tin foil hat...

I didn't attend the march, but this shit scares me...

The CDC (Center for Disease Control) spent about twenty minutes poking around my web site yesterday.

Excuse me, I've got to wash off my keyboard.

[file83]

3. Did you post something on your web site about Tularemia?

[GreenInNC]

4. I know hundreds

of people who were at the march, from all parts of the world and not a single one of them have caught anything. They were on the stage, in the peace village, at Camp Casey, and everywhere in between.

[file83]

5. Do all those "hundreds" of people call you everytime they get sick?

Just curious.

[Generic Other]

17. A lot of people who attended are very concerned

Don't dismiss their anxiety about this. If you pooh-pooh their concerns and they delay seeking medical help, you bear some responsibility if they get sicker. ANYONE who has even a sniffle after attending the march should seek medical attention. PERIOD.

[Mutley]

101. There were actually hundreds of THOUSANDS of people

and according to the info the OP provided there is at least ONE case.

[democracyindanger]

7. I believe

nothing as long as the only verification is by a poster who gives only her first name and an email from somebody who's email handle translates to "without pants."

[file83]

12. "sans-culotte" isn't his email handle. Did you even read what I said?

[democracyindanger]

13. big deal.

Email handle, blog comment handle. Same difference. He could be a severe hypochondriac as far as you, I, or anyone else knows.

[file83]

15. A powerful analysis coming from a guy with "Beaker" as his avatar...

[democracyindanger]

16. Oooh! Ooooh! I have tularemia!

Quick! Alert the CDC! It's got to be true because file83 saw it on the internet!

Hilarious.

[file83]

20. Get some substance.

[democracyindanger]

23. I'll give you $30 million from my fortune being held in Nigeria

All you need to do is give me your bank account number.

[DoYouEverWonder]

8. If they had tularemia they would know it

It is not a subtle thing and usually hits hard within a couple of days.

This is just more BushCo terra terra bullshit.

[file83]

14. Did you even read their stories? They WERE hit hard with symptoms...

...within a few days.

Read their stories (you know, those underlined words are called hyperlinks) before you jump to your forgone conclusions.

[Mnemosyne]

41. 3 - 14 day incubation is not a few days. n/t

[file83]

45. Semantics.

If your friend says, "I'll see you in a few days...", when do you think you will see them?

Choose the BEST answer:

A) Tomorrow (1 day)
B) 5 days
C) 3 weeks

If you speak English natively, then you know that the best answer is B, 5 days.

Now, if you know logic, then you can confirm that "5" falls between 3 and 14.

So....I must ask, are you an idiot, or do you just like throwing out false statements as flamebait?

[Name removed]

51. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[file83]

74. a misunderstanding...

When I read your comment "3-14 days is not a few days" I thought you were responding to my comment because you used the words "few days", so I thought you were being a smartass or something. The guy you were actually responding to used the phrase "couple days" so I thought you were mocking me....

So I responded the way I did. It was a mistake.

Then I saw your comment below where you thanked me...so I responded in kind.

It was a misunderstanding and I apologize and certainly misread your comment. So to the contrary, I thank you for correcting the jerk you were targeting and thank you for defending me.

[Mnemosyne]

80. Accepted, Sorry for being a

bitch. I shouldn't have responded like that. I'm so sorry. Guess I took out my frustration that I had for someone else on you.
Again I am sorry.
Clean slate, start again?

[file83]

83. You bet. Thanks for accepting my apology...

...I felt pretty bad about it once I realized what happened.

Cheers.

[Mnemosyne]

86. We're cool. I feel much better.

I am usually so laid back and mellow, but have been sick since DC. Guess a bit touchy.
Thanks again for the info.
See you later.:hug: :pals:

[file83]

76. dup deleted

[blondeatlast]

52. so glad you could stop by. You are MedLine, Microsoft,

and the Chicago Manual of Style all in one convenient package! :eyes:

[kestrel91316]

61. Incubation is 1-15 days, with 1-3 days fairly common if inhaled.

[stlsaxman]

109. Well, 14 days after my time at The Mall and over the last 10 days I have

developed a sore throat, sensitive glands, achy joints, loose stools and a slight difficulty breathing.

I hardly ever get sick. Is this just a coincidence? I noticed the sore throat the day I got back from "Camp Casey, D.C.".

Monday, I'm going to a nurse practitioner to get a course of antibiotics, just in case.

I am hesitant to get a blood test for Tularemia, only because I DO NOT want the federal government to get a sample of my blood from which they can extract DNA. Call me a paranoid hypochondriac, fine. What anyone thinks of that is of no consequence to me.

[kestrel91316]

60. Tularemia is also a reportable disease nationwide due to its usefulness

as a bioweapon. So you can bet your bottom dollar that it would hit the MSM bigtime if it were diagnosed in a single protestor. The CDC would have a big press conference. We medical types like to get credited for our diagnostic coups.

[Balbus]

9. I'm willing to bet...

every person that was at that protest is going to die someday.

[file83]

18. Ha, ha, kinda like....

...there's no way 19 arabs could knock down the WTC Twin Towers, right? Possible Bio-Attacks on US soil are so fun to make fun of. Grow up.

[Balbus]

103. You're so right. I better put on my lid, then.

:tinfoilhat:

[Generic Other]

10. sans-culotte is a DUer

Profile identifies him as being from VA area.

[Der Blaue Engel]

11. That doesn't sound very conclusive, but I have a theory

:tinfoilhat:

Could Homeland Security be floating this story to make people afraid to protest?

Just a thought.

(Regarding sans-culotte, the conclusive test results would seem to be the only ones that count, so it doesn't sound as if he/she has it.)

[file83]

25. Yes, but if the CDC wanted to prevent a panic...

...wouldn't they report back "negative" results for Tulameria?

From his story, TWO prelim tests come back from an independent medical lab as "positive". Two. Then when the CDC does it, it comes back negative. If that doesn't sound even remotely questionable to you, then we think very differently.

I do thank you for your mature input/response. It's a rare find in this thread.

[Der Blaue Engel]

28. When I looked up tularemia

on the CDC website, it said this:

Q. How is tularemia diagnosed?
A. When a person has symptoms that appear related to tularemia, the healthcare worker collects specimens, such as blood or sputum, for testing in a diagnostic or reference laboratory. Laboratory test results for tularemia may be presumptive or confirmatory. Presumptive (preliminary) identification may take less than 2 hours, but confirmatory testing will take more time, often 24 to 48 hours or longer depending on the methods that need to be used.

I would think the conclusive test is the one that matters. As an example, my partner was given two or three presumptive diagnoses of leukemia last year. Then they did the full-on invasive, lengthy lab test, and he has nothing at all...just some past virus that temporarily affected his spleen. (Let me tell you, it was fucking scary in the meantime.)

[nashville_brook]

33. rec'd -- and, welcome file83...

:) this was my thought too.

plus, i've had my share of inconclusive tests. two positives are enough for me, personally, to "act as if."

as my aunt always says, "wash your hands!"

[alarcojon]

43. A mathematician's view of this

Every medical test has false positives (the test says you have the disease when you actually don't) and false negatives (the test says you don't have the disease when you actually do).

It is well known among statisticians that, in the case of an extremely rare disease (like tularemia), a person who tests positive is actually much more likely NOT to have the disease than to have it. This is because there are many more people who don't have the disease, so much more opportunity for a false positive, than people who do have the disease and correctly test positive for it.

Given that the first two tests were preliminary, I would guess they had fairly high rates of false positives and false negatives. Coupled with the rarity of tularemia, I would guess it more likely than not (probably significantly so) that a person with two positive results doesn't have tularemia.

The issue with false negatives is also clear - in the case of a rare disease like tularemia, someone who tests negative on a pretty reliable test is overwhelmingly certain not to have the disease.

Conclusion: I'll go with the "conclusive" test. That's not even taking into account the anonymous sourcing and the large numbers of people who experience these types of symptoms.

[file83]

46. Two questions for you, mathematcian...

1) If a subject did in fact have Tularemia, would you be willing to bet that the preliminary tests would come positive, or negative?

2) If your "guess" is correct that preliminary Tularemia tests have such a high rate of giving "false positives", then it follows that the reliability of the preliminary Tularemia test is so low that it is for all practical purposes, useless. Tell me, what would then be the point of conducting those tests at all if the results mean absolutley nothing?

I mean, you said it yourself, 2 prelim tests coming back positive actually means that the patient is more than likely, not infected.

But then you follow to say that if the tests come back negative, then you reach the same conclusion that the patient is not infected.

So, why conduct the test at all, logically speaking? Assuming of course, that your "guess" is that the false postitive rate on that test is so high? I'm curious as to what your explanation for that is.

3) One more question for you. If there was top down adminstrative orders within the CDC to withhold from public knowledge the evidence that the public had infact been infected (remember, "if"), what do you think the odds are that the "conclusive" test would come back negative for Tularmeia?

To bad the government doesn't work according to the logic of mathematics, otherwise, your conclusions might mean something.

[kestrel91316]

63. See my above post for a nutshell explanation of Specificity and

Sensitivity as they relate to screening and confirmatory tests. Maybe that will help.

It's something we deal with every day, and it works. Just part of living and practicing in the real world, rather than in a textbook.

I see more false positives (later found to be negative on confirmatory testing) in cats when testing for FIV (Feline Immunodeficiency Virus) than I see true positives. I see virtually no false positives with FeLV (Feline Leukemia Virus). Go figure.

[alarcojon]

71. I think post 67 should help explain it. n/t

[alarcojon]

67. I detect a whiff of condescension in your reply

but unfortunately for you, the numbers do not lie. I'll get back to that in a moment.

First, notice that my post didn't claim that the CDC isn't covering up - a moment's reflection would reveal that proving such malfeasance would be quite a feat. I am merely pointing out that, based on what you have posted, there is an entirely mundane, eminently valid alternative explanation based entirely on the laws of probability. You can choose to reject the mathematical model of how the world works in favor of convoluted theories involving anonymous posters, a relatively common set of symptoms, and government cover-ups if you wish.

To answer your questions:

1) the chances would be overwhelming that the individual would test positive. So what? That assumes you know they have it, which you don't. ALL YOU HAVE is two positive results on a preliminary test.

2) The model doesn't require relatively high false reading rates when the disease is as rare as tularemia. Let's throw some numbers around. I'll be conservative: suppose 1 in 1000 people have tularemia, the test has a 5% rate of false positives and a 2% rate of false negatives. Now consider a sample of 1,000,000 people. 1000 of them have tularemia and 999,000 don't. 95% of the 1000 people with tularemia test positive for it, which is 950 correctly identified cases. However, 2% of the 999,000 who don't have tularemia also test positive - this is 19,980 people. So we have 19,980+950=20,930 positive test results, but only 950 of them actually have tularemia - for a probability of about 4.5% of testing positive and actually having tularemia.

Testing twice increases the rate of correct identification quite significantly; in my example to about 70%. But the actual tularemia rate is far less than 1 in 1000, so I reiterate that the true number is probably significantly less than 50%.

Why test at all? The answer is quite simple - if someone tests negative, the chances are overwhelming that they don't have the disease. Let's look at my numbers again - 5% of the 1000 people with tularemia, or 50, test negative, while 98% of the 999,000 who don't have it, or 979,020, also test negative. That's 979,070 negative results, of which only 50 actually have the disease. So, if you test negative, your chances of not having tularemia are about 99.995%

A preliminary test is conducted so a result is known fairly quickly. If the result is negative, we are almost assured the person doesn't have the disease. If the result is positive, we test again, knowing that if the test again comes up positive, the chances are much higher the person actually has the disease, while if it is negative they almost certainly don't have it. If both results come up positive, then a more expensive, possibly more invasive test should be done, for which it will probably take longer to get the results. If THAT comes up positive, we should truly be concerned. But if it comes back negative, as it did here, we should consider the two positives on the cruder tests as false.

3) As in your question 1), you are assuming something you don't know to be true. As I have demonstrated quite clearly, there is no need for such theories - a simpler one is readily available.

In closing, you may end up being right, but the "evidence" you present doesn't even come close to being convincing.

[kestrel91316]

62. Preliminary screening tests are typically VERY sensitive, but have a

drawback in that they are often not SPECIFIC, so they give positive results to things other than the disease being tested for. That's ok, you WANT to throw out a really big net so you catch everything that's out there. Then you do a confirmatory test, which is typically VERY specific, but usually less sensitive, so this weeds out your false positives from the first test.

Did I make that clear as mud??

[alarcojon]

68. Thanks for the input

I know you are knowledgable in these matters.

Given what you say, one positive test for tularemia should still be taken with a hefty grain of salt, since not only could it be a true false positive, it could also actually be a true positive for something else. On the other hand, a negative on a sensitive preliminary test almost assures that you don't have it.

And a negative on the confirmatory test, while not as conclusive as a negative on the more sensitive preliminary test, is still pretty dammed conclusive.

[kestrel91316]

77. I do believe that if you get a positive on the screening test, but a

negative on the confirmatory, that you can bank on it NOT being tularemia. Though I should probably reserve final judgement without knowing the particulars about the tests for this bug. Not something I have ever needed to bone up on, and most of these tests are pretty new, past decade or less.

[Poppyseedman]

21. Information on this disease

http://www.bt.cdc.gov/agent/tularemia/facts.asp

[leveymg]

26. file83, welcome to DU. If tularemia lab tests come back positive for

someone who was at the DC protest, it will be reported by a reputable media outlet.

Until that happens, I'm not going to get too excited about what appears in pseudonym posts at another open site.

I'd be very careful about allowing myself to spread another person's hoax. That wouldn't be well received. :eyes:

[file83]

34. This is a discussion forum, not a media outlet.

But you seem to be confused about that distinction.

All I'm doing is putting up information about two REAL posts that I ran across which are completely separate. I posted the links so that people, like yourself, could read them with their own eyes.

What's wrong with that? I have not proclaimed my post to be the Gospel Truth. It's some facts and my conclusion.

I'm not telling anyone, nor you, what to believe. I am, however, telling people what MY conclusions are. I'm posting said information here so that people are AWARE of the POSSIBILITY that something may have occured.

Remind yourself, I didn't make up or fabricate any of the facts in this post. If you disagree or question the sources, that is your choice. That should be crystal clear to you if you read my article closely.

Anyway, did you read the title of my article? I never said it DID occur, I said it MAY have occured. You need to read carefully.

I explained why I believe the "sans-culotte" story. I have personal, long time familiarity with the mind behind the moniker.

I know you don't know me, so you don't have to trust my conclusions. Take it with a grain of salt. But you can read and follow the links I have provided. No need to be careful my friend. You shouldn't be so timid.

[mirrera]

44. Reputable Media Outlet...what channel would that be?

They certainly are messing around with science these days. Who is in charge of the CDC? I am afraid to look it might be a Bush crony. I know someone who died of Tularemia on Martha's Vineyard. There has been an unusual amount of that there and some people were studying it. I am going to at LEAST email the group I know about from Maine that sponsored buses to the protest. It can't hurt to at least know there is the possibility. I know I most of my friends would not run to the doctor over "flu like symptoms". With Bush stressing over and over that there could be a disaster...and as Maher said "Maybe he's just not lucky", I will be very suspicious and vigilant over fever in my house. These guys thrive on disaster and the anthrax has pretty much quieted down the Democrats.

[file83]

47. Thank God for your response....

I thought I was losing my mind over here. People talking about the media as if what they say is GOLD? Where am I, the Twilight Zone?

Mirrera, I'm glad to hear that you are going to at least notify people you know attended to be careful and spread the word. I think people like to just make fun of this stuff because they feel it empowers them. It's truly bizarre, especially considering our nation only 4 years ago suffered from a major biological attack from the Anthrax letters. The attention span of people today is truly pathetic.

Take care and thanks for posting.

[SoCalDem]

29. Here's the problem..

This time of year there are MILLIONS of parents who are exposed through their children..to a whole range of "new" germs.. the incubation period of a few weeks, so therer were a LOT of people at the rallies who were already in the process of coming down with something..

Most benign illnesses have things in common.. aches, low fever, cold-like symptoms..

[GreenInNC]

31. bingo

My daughter started kindergarten this year and my son is at day care. Both of them are walking germ factories. My wife has been sick (she was not at the march) and since this tulermania is not spread person to person, I guess she will get better.

[kestrel91316]

65. If untreated, tularemia will often lead to chronic progressive illness.

I guess if she never gets better, she should be tested. Whatever.

[alarcojon]

75. I don't get your comment

He said she wasn't at the march. Tularemia isn't spread from person to person. Are you suggesting that she should be tested for tularemia?

[kestrel91316]

94. Sorry, missed the part about not being there. NOT spread from p-to-p.

[fed-up]

32. If they put her on Cipro w/out the sputum test then she will never know-

Unless they also tested her blood before they started her on Cipro. Wonder if they saved the blood they took the white count from???

From her post it looks like she was not able to do the sputum test and she makes no mention of her doc testing her blood.

From Chrissy's post:
"He told me the only way to know for sure if I have it is to test muscus from my lungs and I'm not coughing anything up although my chest is very tight. He said since I have all the symptoms he's going to treat me for it anyway and if I'm not better in 3 days I have to go back. He gave me cipro. So, that's the deal, I may or may not have it. I have something that is kicking my ass, that's for sure. Today is a week I've been sick."

[file83]

36. That's informative. Thank you...

I just wonder how "Chrissy" is doing. She hasn't posted since 2 days ago...

[The Magistrate]

35. Mere Un-Sourced Rumor, Sir

"Sold for entertainment purposes only."

[file83]

37. That smells an awful lot like nerd humor there...

Are you a nerd?

I'm not being mean, just curious if my intuition on your personality is accurate. Be honest.

[The Magistrate]

38. Do You Think So, Sir?

"Everybody wants to go to heaven, nobody wants to die."

[file83]

39. Ask a simple question, and get a goofy quote: AFFIRMATIVE

Thanks for confirming my suspicion.

[The Magistrate]

40. This Is Amusing, Sir

Should you persevere at it, you may come to some understanding....

[rhett o rick]

90. I don't want to go to the same heaven as Pat Robertson. nt

[Mnemosyne]

42. Thanks for trying to help inform us all file83. And

welcome! Whether anything comes of all of this or not, it could be very serious and that is why all information needs to be followed up on and monitored.

How shallow of some to mock potential harm to others. We aren't being alarmists, just being practical. It's not as if NO possibility existed at all.

[file83]

48. I appreciate your well thought out comment...

I hope there is nothing to the Tularmeia story. See you round.

[Mnemosyne]

53. Thanks for the insult elsewhere in the the thread. Back at ya'. n/t

[file83]

79. vickiss, if you see this, please read my comment above

concerning this misunderstanding and my apology. My mistake. Sorry for being a jerk to you.

[Mnemosyne]

81. I read it file. Thank you, please see my apology also. n/t

[meisje]

49. Disinformation Underground

Everyone is sick or will be sick with a normal cold by the end of this week. I've had one for 2 weeks now, my 2 year old son has had Croup at his daycare for weeks.

Your post has no merit.

[Tracyjo]

50. Something raised a red flag with me too

Where did "Chrissy" go to the doctor? I've never gotten my CBC results back that quickly unless I went to the ER. I take a flu shot every year. I contracted the flu a few years ago even after taking the shot. I was so sick that I couldn't even get to the computer much less post a message about my illness. How sick do you actually get with Tularemia? Her story sounds suspect to me. I believe she got sick, but I don't believe it was Tularemia.

[chefgirl]

54. Interesting if you consider the bold type

Tularemia typically presents as an acute febrile illness and can cause various clinical manifestations, including skin ulcers, pharyngitis, ocular lesions, regional lymphadenopathy, and pneumonia, the CDC says. Bioterrorism experts predict that attackers attempting to spread F tularensis would probably use an aerosolized form.

"Outbreaks of pneumonic tularemia, particularly in low-incidence areas, should prompt consideration of bioterrorism," the CDC report states.

http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/cidrap/content/bt/tularemia/news/tularemia.html

-chef-

[Tracyjo]

57. Well darn

That sounds a lot worse than "the flu".:yoiks:

[Dora]

66. Welcome to DU, and thanks for the post!

I hope that nothing comes of it, but I appreciate being forewarned.

[NoBushSpokenHere]

69. Thank you for posting - I realize we ALL don't want

people to run scared and be afraid to return to protest. I believe this is the reason so many are downplaying the threat. I realized the possibility of something like this being done prior to going to DC. I was and am willing to take the risks. As I said in my prior posts, it is for my child I march. It is for the children who have been killed fighting a war that shouldn't have been fought. It is for the innocent Iraqis, it is for the genocide in New Orleans, it is for the people who have lost their homes due to job loss, it is for the people who are without insurance, it is for those seniors who may freeze or starve to death this winter, it is for those families living in shelters that I march.

I do not believe that the risk will keep people away from any future protests, in fact, I believe it will increase the numbers of people who do. We have to do everything legal in our power to stop what has happened to OUR America. If that means risking bioterrorism by our own government, then so be it.

Trying to ridicule those who post to warn others is no way to deter the threat. The threat exists regardless. It is our duty to let each other know of developments affecting those concerned with our cause. There were numerous children in the protest, there were countless senior citizens. Let alone, many who appeared to be physically challenged. To try to hush any discussion of the possibilities in order to thwart panic is wrong. We owe it to those who may become sick to keep this topic level-headed throughout the 15 day threat.

Question for kestrel91316: Could this be a mutated strain that doesn't cause the severe symptoms that would test positive in preliminary tests but negative on the CDC test?

No, I am not trying to add to the panic, just looking for answers.

Let's all have some cool heads and be civil about this.

[file83]

82. Thanks for acknowledging what you did...

You know, this is my first big post, and frankly I don't think DU is a very friendly place for open minds. I appreciate your level headed assessment of the information I posted and recognize the simple intent I had in doing so.

It's really strange, the surge of negative comments that came in, despite the fact that only 4 years ago our country was undergoing a major Anthrax bio attack to which we still do not know who to lay blame to. Amazing how quickly people forget these days.

I think people read the subject line and nothing else. It's pretty pathetic. The part that angers me is that there were so many negative posts that I misinterpreted a post that was a bit ambiguous and responded unkindly to it. Turns out the poster was actually trying to defend me - but the damage was already done.

I won't be coming back to the DU to post. I'll read and that's it. That's probably the reason why you don't see many posters here between 100 to 999 posts. Either you conform or split.

No love here unless you regurgitate political hate rhetoric.

[alarcojon]

84. Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out

you responded to my first reasoned, logical argument with condescension. I answered your questions far more politely in another reasoned, informed post. I take it this post means you will not ne responding to that post, but I hope you at least read it.

And if you've read this far, your last sentence is pure drivel. I've found my open mind is quite welcomed here.

[NoBushSpokenHere]

85. Please don't stop posting

I believe most people here are decent and really don't mean harm. I do believe that most people were responding just out of fear that the scare will deter future rally participation.

I wanted to discuss my concern of the possibility of a threat prior to the rally but didn't as I didn't want to deter anyone from going to DC. I remain hopeful that the administration is just trying to scare us, but until we reach the end of this 15 day period, that will remain an unknown.

I also posted last night to ask if there were any confirmed cases as I haven't been feeling well since returning from DC. It is important for us to know these things and it is important for those of us who can keep a level head, post the possibility.

Some people just like to flame, I believe it is a stress reliever for them in some ways. Just overlook the negative reactions you may receive in future posts and focus on the positive.

Welcome to DU and I hope that your experience here improves!

[FlaGranny]

93. Most people ARE decent

but not everyone. We have a few professional "assholes" around here.

[Kevin Spidel]

87. i was at the protest... and have flu like symptoms...

ever since i got back from DC... I got back last tuesday. it took a few days for it to set in. but am sore, feverish, just the mild flu like stuff. have no health insurance. lets hope its just change of seasons. some of my fellow staff are also ill.

[mirrera]

104. Go to the doctor!

Seriously, I am not into western medicine for promoting health, i.e. when was the last time your wheezing overweight doctor asked you what you ate? BUT look at Jim Henson. Dead from something that an antibiotic could have whipped. Western medicine is great if you are broken. I would not take a chance with this. This administration would LOVE a little population reduction. I have always been surprised they haven't done something to all those protesting liberals conveniently in one place. With all this talk about Bird Flu and quarantine, who knows what they have in mind. I believe the anthrax came from our government, and the lack of investigation confirms it for me every day. With that said, why not weaponize tulaurimia? They will find a way to blame the IRANIANS? Syrians? What ever GO TO THE DOCTOR! If you factor in the crap we waste money on.... a $100 doctor bill is worth it. I love your work at PDA and we need you. I would be happy if my donation went to keep you fit...go, and your staff.

http://NoBullshiRt.com

[tokenlib]

89. This is serious and this is strange...

Of the DUers who went to DC, it amazes me how many have been sick. My sinuses have off and on made me miserable with a slight sore throat, congestion, and I too have double checked the symptom list to make sure it wasn't the beginnings of rabbit flu.

My hope is that the change of seasons is partly responsible. From 80 degree highs to 40 degree lows and then 50 degree highs in twenty-four hours twice in one week--is a bit of a change. And I seem to go through this every year with my sinuses.

I suppose we're all waiting to see if Tularemia gets confirmed as the ailment for any of us...

[deutsey]

91. Hey, tokenlib...I'm getting over a cold that came on after DC

I didn't go to the doctor about it, but beginning about 5 days after the protest I came down with something that seemed worse than a cold but not as bad as the flu.

Strange coincidence? :shrug:

I hope you're feeling better.

:hi:

[tokenlib]

95. Thanks...

Hope you feel better too! I just can't believe that so many people we were around came down sick--Livvy, Lizerdbits, you, the list goes on.. Mine is sinuses, no further symptoms fortunately..for sure not as bad as a cold--just annoying.

Great water cooler talk at work though..

[rhett o rick]

92. Thanks for starting this discussion. After all that is what DU is all

about. I don't understand the posts deriding you. This issue may be completely unfounded but one way to find out is to get the discussion started. I heard about this on AirAmericaRadio. I think it was Rachel Maddow and I have been trying to find out more facts since. I of course come here, but DU has been quiet about this. Good thread.

[Bluerthanblue]

96. Katrina protest right before the anti-war.. Tulane U. had level 3 bio-

lab.
I would not take ANY of this lightly- nor would I discount believing anything was possible by some people in power to remain in power, or to kill, destroy, and harm anyone to achieve their purposes.

I don't wear a tin-foil hat anymore- my scalp has become foil encrusted- trust very very few- and even then, don't not listen to your gut, and question what seems 'off the wall' or paranoid.

Just because you are NOT paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get you.

Hope you're soon well again.

[Vinnie From Indy]

98. If you feel sick GO TO THE DOCTOR and quit endlessly speculating.

Sounds like a bunch of old ladies in here. Is there not one ounce of skepticism to be tolerated when a poster makes wild allegations without any hard evidence? If you were there and feel sick, go to the frickin' doctor and quit wasting time fanning the flames of fear by endlessly speculating on your every sniffle, cough or stuffy head on DU. When and if there is verifiable, hard evidence of Tularemia being sprayed on the DC crowd I trust that DUers will post it quickly. Until then, go to your Doctor RIGHT NOW if you are concerned.

The original poster obviously believes that any crap thrown up on DU should be exempt from scrutiny and criticism. Agree with me or not, but I think this poster's goal is simply to pimp the fear aspect of this still unverified story. Again, I urge anyone that even remotely believes that they are sick to get up from their computer right now and head straight to their doctor or other medical professional and get tested.

Maybe the original poster will take as much time providing us with solid, verifiable information beyond the assurances of credible sources as was taken to write and respond on this thread, but I seriously doubt it

[democracyindanger]

99. But on the bright side

if the OP returns, he'll call you names, accuse you of not reading, question whether you can read at all, then somebody else will respond to him gushing with praise and disclosing that they were in DC and have a runny nose.

[woo me with science]

102. Everybody gets sick this time of year.

Sounds to me like people are describing the colds and allergies we see every year in the fall. Sorry, but I don't see a conspiracy here.

[Kailassa]

110. Who is talking about a conspiracy?

Nobody here invented the notion of Tularemia being found on 6 or more air-filters in Washington DC on the Saturday of the protest.

Air-born Tularemia is a serious disease, and we can't trust the media to give us truthful information on it. So if you don't want to discuss it, you have no obligation to contribute. But leave other people to Discuss a topic of their choice in this Discussion Forum.

[Catchawave]

107. Yahoo news search results.....

http://search.news.yahoo.com/search/news/?p=TULAREMIA&c=

No confirmed cases from Sept 24-25. Though am wondering why this hasn't been more of a national story so more people would know about this?

I was not only at the protest, but the book festival, and many museums and monuments that weekend too! Also, was stuck underground in assorted metro stations when the train schedule slowed down.

I'd say at least a half million people from around the country and world were in town for the two big events at the mall, not to mention your regular nation's capitol visitors.

This should definitely trump missing coeds' stories!

[crispini]

108. Wow, way to put the pieces together!

Please keep an eye on this. Very good detective work! It's not conclusive yet but it's worth watching. Could you perhaps do a follow-up? For example, I would like to know the kinds of "preliminary" tests that confirmed tularemia vs. the third test -- what is the difference between the two? Also did the first poster who was going to be tested ever get tested, and what were the results? It's not conclusive yet but it might be worthwhile.

You must have done a lot of reading to come up with this. WTG! :thumbsup:

edited to add: Having gone back and read the thread, please allow me to explain that people are ALWAYS going to participate with a certain leavening of skepticism and snark. Please don't take it personally.