Why Intelligent Design Is Going to Win

[Fuzz]

A nice heaping pile of steaming shit to go with your morning coffee.

_______________________________________________

It doesn't matter if you like it or not. It doesn't matter if you think it's true or not. Intelligent Design theory is destined to supplant Darwinism as the primary scientific explanation for the origin of human life. ID will be taught in public schools as a matter of course. It will happen in our lifetime. It's happening right now, actually.

Here's why:

1) ID will win because it's a religion-friendly, conservative-friendly, red-state kind of theory, and no one will lose money betting on the success of red-state theories in the next fifty to one hundred years.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: families that reproduce people tend to reproduce ideas, as well. The most vocal non-scientist proponents of ID are those delightfully fertile Catholics, Evangelicals, and similarly right-leaning middle-class college-educated folk -- the kind whose children will inherit the country. Eventually, the social right will have the sheer manpower to teach ID wherever they please.

<snip>

2) ID will win because the pro-Darwin crowd is acting like a bunch of losers.



"Ewww…intelligent design people! They're just buck-toothed Bible-pushing nincompoops with community-college degrees who're trying to sell a gussied-up creationism to a cretinous public! No need to address their concerns or respond to their arguments. They are Not Science. They are poopy-heads."

There. I just saved you the trouble of reading 90% of the responses to the ID position. Vitriol, condescension, and endless accusations of bad faith all characterize far too much of the standard pro-Darwinian response to criticism. A reasonable observer might note that many ID advocates appear exceptionally well-educated, reasonable, and articulate; they might also note that ID advocates have pointed out many problems with the Darwinist catechism that even pro-Darwin scientists have been known to concede, when they think the Jesus-kissing crowd isn't listening. And yet, even in the face of a sober, thoughtful ID position, the pro-Darwin crowd insists on the same phooey-to-the-boobgeois shtick that was tiresome in Mencken's day. This is how losers act just before they lose: arrogant, self-satisfied, too important to be bothered with substantive refutation, and disdainful of their own faults. Pride goeth before a fall.

<snip>

http://www.techcentralstation.com/100705C.html

[GreenPartyVoter]

1. ID Will not win. ID is trying to put on the coat of science but the darn

thing won't fit.

As theistic evolutionist I think the people who are pushing ID are just being silly. There's no need to put God into the textbooks. God is for Sunday School, not public school. And truth be known, the ID people are still digging their heels in the dirt about evolution. Sure they'll buy into speciation of some species...but not humans. Nope. We shoed up on this planet looking like we do now. But without belly buttons.

:eyes:

[Tyler Durden]

2. That's what DOG made "Bird Flu" for.

Let them pray THAT away.

Got Tamiflu?

[readmoreoften]

9. I love you, Tyler Durden!

You always get down to brass tacks.

[Bridget Burke]

3. Douglas Kern produced this steaming pile...

Why does he blame Intelligent Design on "those delightfully fertile Catholics" when he says two paragraphs down: "The Catholic Church, for example, made peace with traditional Darwinist theory long ago."

Here's another pile: "Confessions of an Engineering Washout"--in which he blames higher education for his switch to liberal arts & an eventual law degree. Those math & science courses just shouldn't be so hard. It's unfair.

www.techcentralstation.com/092105B.html

And here's some info on the litter box, Tech Central Station (TCS):

But TCS doesn't just act like a lobbying shop. It's actually published by one--the DCI Group, a prominent Washington "public affairs" firm specializing in P.R., lobbying, and so-called "Astroturf" organizing, generally on behalf of corporations, GOP politicians, and the occasional Third-World despot. The two organizations share most of the same owners, some staff, and even the same suite of offices in downtown Washington, a block off K Street. As it happens, many of DCI's clients are also "sponsors" of the site it houses. TCS not only runs the sponsors' banner ads; its contributors aggressively defend those firms' policy positions, on TCS and elsewhere.

www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2003/0312.confessore.html

The new word for today: "journo-lobbying."

[TayTay]

4. Well, the Vatican does fund science and has it's own

Observatory where they study the evolution of the galaxy. (No, really.) They have one of the largest collections of meteors on the planet and do basic research. (No, really, I am not kidding.)

See here: http://clavius.as.arizona.edu/vo/R1024/VO.html

Catholic doctrine does not disallow Darwin's teachings. Ask any Jesuit.

[Bridget Burke]

5. Yes, the Church got over its problem with science long ago.

Arthur C Clarke had a Jesuit scientist make an awful discovery out in space, in his story "The Star."

And there's a connection to a field of science much in the news of late. The first scientific authority on Atlantic Hurricanes was Benito Vines, S J.

www.cubanet.org/CNews/y98/mar98/13e5.htm

[FrankX]

26. Catholic priest came up with the Big Bang Theory. LeMaitre

[ComerPerro]

6. The people who whore for ID sell it well

"Its all about being open minded"

"Lets hear all views"

BULLSHIT!!!

They don't truly want to hear all views.

This is just their view of a "compromise".

"Sure, we will teach evolutionary theory, but only if the teacher reminds the students that 'God did it'."

[Jim__]

7. ID may win the political fight

The judiciary is being set up for that win now, and politically, ID is an easy sell to the American people. It may well be taught in American schools, to the detriment of American education.

It will not win the scientific fight. ID is not science, and scientists are not going to be fooled by it. Eventually, the silliness of ID will be seen by the larger society.

[hatrack]

8. And it came from Techcentralstation - what a surprise!

:puke: NOT

[bj2110]

10. No. The binding glues that holds any science together are proof and fact,

either of which is present in ID theory. Science isn't going anywhere. Yes, there will be a debate, and perhaps politics will alter the scientific landscape a bit, but science cannot be denied.

A lot of people fought to maintain the idea that the world was flat, too.

[Skinner]

11. ID is not going to win.

It might temporarily become the norm in some school districts some parts of the country.

But it's never going to be taken seriously among the scientfic community. Even if this asshat believes it is vitriol, condescension, or bad faith, that doesn't change the fact that ID isn't science.

[BurtWorm]

30. Do you mean "teaching the controversy" will become the norm

or ID will be the norm in these districts' biology classes?

If the latter, the US may as well give up title to leader of the free world and come out as just another third world country.

[Tyler Durden]

31. being a member of "the Scientific Community"is now an insult....

It's the first thing these assholes say:

"WELL, you know 'The Scientific Community!' "

Get real. The only way they won't win is if there is a revolution, nonviolent or otherwise.

As someone wiser than me said, NOTHING lasts forever. Not even Republics.

[bunkerbuster1]

33. Aren't there principled conservatives publicly opposed to ID?

Some things should be bipartisan. Standing up for truth against utter nonsense ought to be one of them.

Surely there are some on the right--those who aren't fundamentalist Christian/Bible literalists--who have come out against ID?

Can we not form some kind of coalition with them on this, if only this?

[Swamp Rat]

45. OBEY

[Walt Starr]

12. After perusing Tech Central Station it has become clear

it's a reichwing talking point site.

I mean, Bill O'Reilly as a contributor? Come on!

[Bridget Burke]

18. Tech Central Station does "Journo-lobbying"

It's published by the DCI Group--lobbyists. Many DCI clients support TCS.

www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2003/0312.confessore.html

James K Glassman, "host" of TCS, is a Resident Fellow at the American Enterprise Institute.

www.aei.org/scholars/scholarID.21/scholar.asp

[Walt Starr]

20. BAM, Reichwing nutball site!

That makes me feel better!

[Tesha]

13. ID will only supplant evolution in *AMERICA*.

> Intelligent Design theory is destined to supplant Darwinism as
> the primary scientific explanation for the origin of human life.

ID will only supplant evolution in *AMERICA*. And, in fact, probably
only in those portions of America that are red or redish.

And the rest of the world, and Blue America, will be laughing at the
morons who believe this shit.

It's no coincidence that places like Cambridge, Massachusetts rather
than, say, Biloxi, Mississippi bring home Nobel prizes year after
year after year.

Tesha

[FrankX]

29. Sadly, Australia too.

http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2005/aug/05082901.html

[leeroysphitz]

14. Science and religion have been increasingly at odss

and the struggle in this country is likely to continue for some time but in the end science (real science) will win.

Science keeps the lights on. It's really that simple. No amount of faith will keep the planes in the air, or trucks on the road. No amount of faith will fix your newborns cleft lip or your uncles cancer. Prayer doesn't power the internet and all the new commerce it spawns.

Science can't lose. This debate is a contrived, short term problem.
Reality has ALWAYS won in the end.

[atommom]

15. Vitriol, condecension, and disdain are integral parts of ID too.

This guy apparently hasn't spent much time with ID people, or he'd know that they are far nastier and more self-righteous than Darwinists. They are also fond of bending and breaking rules to get their way. So his argument is fatally flawed. Does that mean he's wrong? I certainly hope so...

[Kazak]

16. The flaw in that argument is:...

ID is not a theory at all...it's an idea.

As I see it, this is put up or shut up time for the fundies. They have a real oportunity here to finally legitimize their claims by building thier idea into a honest-to-goodness theory by backing it up with repeatable observation and empirical evidence, or if they cannot, the issue should be resolve once and for all.

I guess I cannot understand why the lawyers arguing this case cannot bring this about. Seems elementary...

[kiki]

19. What do you call a "theory"...

...that has absolutely no evidence to support it, anyway?

Answers on a postcard please.

[alcibiades_mystery]

17. "No one will lose money betting on red-state friendly in the next hundred

years"

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

The so-called "red-state" sentiment is collapsing all around us. They've "governed" for less than five years.

This dingbat thinks red-statism can last 50-100 years? Hilarious.

No wonder the writer has difficulty with evolution. He thinks a movement that has held sway for a decade will last forever!

As for the condescension heaped on to ID positions from...er...scientists, well, bucko, some things ARE just fucking stupid.

[yellowcanine]

21. People can reproduce but they can't control what the offspring think.

Ideas trump biology.

[Beelzebud]

22. Who is the designer, an alien? If not, who designed him?

This ID nonsense is just that. NONSENSE.

It will not come out on top.

[wryter2000]

23. Riddle me this one, Batman

If there's no evolution, how is that flu going to evolve into something that goes from human to human? :evilgrin:

[Greyhound]

24. The bottom line is that ID cannot stand up to any scientific standards

and the fact that it is making inroads in certain areas is evidence of the failed education system, not any validity. Just because a disturbing number of amerikans are completely ignorant of the scientific method, does not lend any legitimacy to the absurd notion of a 'creator'.
BTW just to be fair, the collapse of our educations system occurred largely under dem party rule.

[CornField]

25. So, they've won because they've managed to get lipstick on the sow?

Sorry, no, they have not.

[KittyWampus]

27. The Materialism Behind Establishment Science Is Already Outdated

why the heck DU'ers continue to grasp onto the corpse of a Philosophy that is anathema to everything we believe in is strange to say the least.

Reality has been PROVEN to be non-local, yet DU'ers keep insisting that it is.

When you insist on defending Darwinism and discounting what ID REALLY says, you are simply displaying an appalling lack of intellectual vigor and honesty.

[porphyrian]

34. Are you being sarcastic? - n/t

[PassingFair]

36. Check out her tag line, then ask again

...if she's joking.

[porphyrian]

38. OK, better questions:

1) Are you calling science a philosophy?

2) In what ways are materialism outdated?

3) What exactly do you mean by "Reality has been PROVEN to be non-local," and what is that proof?

4) What does ID REALLY say?

5) How does defending Darwinism display an appalling lack of intellectual vigor and honesty?

[Bill McBlueState]

41. it would be great to get answers to these questions

The poster you're responding to is always among the first to defend intelligent design. But we never really get to hear the argument beyond a handful of buzzwords. It's frustrating.

[Bill McBlueState]

42. *crickets*

Feel the SILENCE, brothers and sisters!

[porphyrian]

53. It's a shame...

I actually wanted the answers to those questions.

Maybe we should all just make some unsupported claims.

I am the cousin of God! I can't believe how many of you won't simply admit such an obvious truth. I sat next to him at Yom Kippur.

[really annoyed]

44. So, what does ID REALLY say??

Please, educate me, oh enlightened one!

Darwinism is not evolution. Sorry to burst your bubble. Darwin is outdated.

[Hong Kong Cavalier]

48. "... displaying an appalling lack of intellectual vigor and honesty"

Nice.
:eyes:
Considering that ID is the "foot in the door" for Creationism, you're damn right I'm going to "insist" on defending Darwinism.
Especially when these people insist on it being taught in public schools.

[FM Arouet666]

52. I certainly hope you are being sarcastic.

If you do????

Enlighten me, what does ID REALLY say?
And, how is materialism outdated?

:evilfrown:

[Bill McBlueState]

28. fortunately, none of these things matter

*religion-friendly
*conservative-friendly
*red-state kind of theory
*the pro-Darwin crowd is acting like a bunch of losers

Those are the four reasons the author gives. Thankfully, none of them have anything to do with "is it good science?" Biologists will keep doing what they do regardless of what religious conservative redstaters think. The only problem is that it will become increasingly hard to do science here, and the best minds will go overseas.

[Scout]

32. great LTTE in my local paper

I did not write it, but I think it's pretty damn good!

Only an atheist could back intelligent design
Regarding "Federal court hears lawsuit on teaching of intelligent design" (Ann Arbor News, Sept 26), I believe the case can be settled in five minutes if the following reasoning is considered:

I would argue that only an atheist could beieve in, support, and promote intelligent design theory (i.e. hypothesis). For believers, such as Christians, the origin of the universe and life is already a settled question. God created the universe.

Therefore, anyone coming before the federal court in Pennsylvania claiming to believe in and support intelligent design must testify under oath that they are non-believers in the Christian faith. If they say they are Christians and believers, then by default they are hostile to intelligent design just as they are to evolution.

The question such individuals would have to answer is: Why, then are they promoting something they don't believe in?

end text of letter

[immoderate]

35. Except IDers do not recognize contradiction as an obstacle.

If they believe in ID, they won't follow this argument. Similarly, I don't think folks in the dark ages thought they were unenlightened.

--IMM

[OrlandoGator]

37. I love how legitimate scientists refuse to "debate" ID.

They dismiss it the same way one would dismiss debating the merits of the theory stating the moon is made of cheese.

[OrlandoGator]

39. The universe was created by the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

And I will not rest until this "alternative" theory is taught side-by-side with ID and evolution.

[tjwash]

40. ID is the proof in the pudding...

...that Christianity as we know it is in it's final death throes.

Now more than ever, a conglomerate of political figures, have been using the name of Christianity in a desperate attempt to get hold of the nation once and for all. What we are seeing at this point, is a ridiculously brazen, attempted coupling of Church and State through the I.D. debacle.

The fact is, that the hard religious right feels the need to do so in order to survive.

They will always have their 30% of blind faith followers. That's just a given. But, who in the government is in front of grand juries being investigated because of rampant widespread corruption? The same religious right nut jobs.

It's all coming apart at the seams...

[stepnw1f]

43. Go Have Another...

ID is as stupid as the people promoting it. It already lost!

[rfrrfrrfr]

46. I really really REALLY wish

People would stop calling it a theory. ITS NOT A FRIGGIN THEORY. It never has been never will be. It in no way shape or form even comes close to being able to meet the definition of a theory.

It is not science it is a creation STORY that belongs in a comparitave religeous class or philosophy class. Either place would be a perfect place to discuss it even in public schools. It has no reason whatsoever to be even discussed in a science class.

[stepnw1f]

47. It's a Fairytale for Grown-Ups Who Never Grew Up

This stupid shit gives religion/faith a really bad name. Ingenius front for money laundering.

[K-W]

49. "ID advocates have pointed out many problems with the Darwinist catechism"

Bullshit.

This guy has no idea what he is talking about.

[PowerToThePeople]

50. Well, my University's president gave ID the bird.

It is a fairly science heavy campus too.

http://www.president.uidaho.edu/default.aspx?pid=85947

[FM Arouet666]

51. Who is going to teach ID crapola

Great, pass a law giving ID equal time in public school science classes. Are science teachers going to sing the praises of ID? No, they will present both topics and expose ID for what it is, pseudo-science creationism crapola.

A scientist studying emotional responses in primates made this remark on NPR today, I paraphrase. "In some ways, I hope ID is taught in public school. In this way, ID will be exposed as unscientific creationism."

You can fool some of the people.....

[Neil Lisst]

54. Intelligent Design - ask them if it includes space aliens as God

When someone urges Intelligent design, ask if that means aliens could have come here and been the thing we think of as God.