Who here Really Believes in the 1000 Year Republic of the USA?

[Tyler Durden]

I keep saying this to anyone who will listen. The average "republic" since the Romans "invented" it has lasted in its true form for less than 200 years, duration shrinking with time.

Even Lincoln said that it was the fate of republics to die by factions, and another time he said by suicide.

Physics tells us that if an event CAN occur, given time, it will. NOTHING lasts forever. NOTHING.

All that being said, who thinks the United States will live forever?

[Tyler Durden]

1. I had to vote Dead already.

I haven't seen anything since before Reagan that would make me believe that somewhere between Reagan and now, The US couldn't take the pain anymore and slit her wrists in a warm bath.

[Tyler Durden]

3. 8 votes already.....

....nobody sayin' much.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

2. The twilight of nations comes to all

because all is Maya.

[Teaser]

4. The modern nation state

has only existed since the late renaissance. Really it's only existed since the 19th century.

Who knows what comes next.

Franchulates, a la Snow Crash?

[Tyler Durden]

5. Nothing new under the sun.

You could lift a pre-empire Senator from the floor of the Roman Senate and sit him next to Robert Byrd and in a DAY he'd be right at home.

Republics are all drawn on the Greco-Roman design with a little splash for modern tastes. This isn't a Nation/State; it's a classic Representative Democratic Republic. Old hat.

[kcwayne]

6. A tale of 4 generations

My grandparents were migrant workers and/or Great Depression era casualties. They had hope and a firm belief that life would be better for their kids, and probably themselves.

My Dad was career military and fully believed that the USA was the best place on earth. And he had traveled overseas enough to know the comparisons. My mother encouraged us to get an education. While not a jingoist, she knew that our lives would be better.

My life has been better than my parents and grandparents. More options, more security, more fun.

I do not hold the same belief for my daughter. Her life will be economically regressive compared to mine, unless I manage to find a way to pass wealth to her. I no longer see the US as a land of opportunity. I see it as a fallen empire, headed toward great financial hardship, that will translate to loss of culture and civility. Coupled with the impending installation of theocratic fascism, my greatest concern is that I will have to leave my home when I have aged to the point that no other country will take me because I, and millions of other aged American refugees represent a medical liability.

[smartvoter]

7. This is dead on. nt

[m_welby]

8. not really dead, just the empire

the country will go on. England has, france has, they just lost their prominance. The last century was americas century, this century belongs to someone else. probably china.

The empire is dead, long live the empire

[Tyler Durden]

9. The REPUBLIC is dead you mean.

The Death of the Republic is the midwife to EMPIRE. There's just one little detail:

The Romans were RICH when they started EMPIRE. They had loads of peoples to conquer, exploit and tax.

WE on the other hand, are BROKE, and if we start to make like 1933 Germany, The WORLD will kill us: they won't wait for us to suicide.

[electropop]

10. If we work very very hard we may be able to save the country...

by shutting down the empire.

[Yupster]

14. Agree m-welby

Countries rise like rockets into prominence. Then they start getting fat and lazy, and there's always someone else coming up behind them to take over.

We'll be okay. We'll settle into a reasonable existance like England, France and Italy.

The countries who are now rising like rockets will be China and India, and the next century will belong to them if they don't screw it up.

World War II left us in an incredible position where we were about the only industrial power in the world. We knew that wouldn't last forever.

Inia and China are lean and mean, they are working harder, and they will deserve what they will get.

[bemildred]

11. The American Republic died under Wilson during WWI.

You cannot be both a republic and an empire.

[Az]

12. Its a naturally occurring social problem

Morality and ethics are derived in society by a collective understanding based on a number of sources. Personal experience, projection, learned traditions, religious doctrine, and increasing understanding of our nature.

In a static society there is oppression of the individual. The morals and ethics are fixed but there are inevitably individuals that are oppressed by such a system. Independent thinking or behaviour not approved by the fixed doctrine are taboo and considered evil. In time such a system will collapse as individuals are exposed to more and more new ideas.

Thus our progressive society came about after 1000s of years under a fixed doctrinal control. A new progressive and humanist society rose from the ashes. New insites were added to our understanding. What was considered moral was perceived to be immoral and things that were once immoral were recast as moral.

But progressive society have the inverse problem that plague static societies. Over time factions of those that hold to static sources of morality and ethics accumulate. They initially provide resistance to progress and may even cause some ideas to be dashed before they are accepted by a critical number in the society.

As the differences between the fixed morality and dynamic morality increases the stress and anger increases. If the social pressures of the progressive aspects of the society do not overwhelm the fixed doctrines the adherants may rebel in time. They will have no other choice. They cannot voluntarily abandon their beliefs and they cannot stand idlely by while they percieve what they believe to be evil being down.

[mike923]

13. I wouldn't want to live anywhere else...

I've traveled the globe, and we simply have it better than anybody has ever had it.

[IntravenousDemilo]

15. Except for here.

That is, as long as you don't mind cold weather, but on the whole, we're comparatively happier here in Canuckistan. Our economy is progressing nicely for now, though we are uncomfortably tied to that of the US. And we're far and away more tolerant as a rule, though we do have right-wing yahoos as well (whom we ridicule and keep marginalized).

So really, you don't "simply better than anybody has ever had it" at the moment. Keep working at it though.

[Tyler Durden]

17. Yeah, and if NAFTA goes phhht! over softwood, The US is SCREWED

We get 60% of our imported oil from Canada. FACT. And if you guys could keep it and sell it off to better markets (Japan, Europe, etc.) the Northern US would think that Nuclear Winter had arrived and the Sailin' South would find it's a real BITCH to get things to market from their cheap labor factories when you have to truck things 1000 miles by DIESEL.

Yeah, we have it good; like a convict having filet mignon, asparagus hollandaise with a 1982 Chateau Lafitte Rothschild, only its his LAST MEAL.

[mike923]

18. I enjoy drinking a beer while i fish....

therefore, i wouldn't like to live in Canada.

If you get that fixed, along with the $40 price tag for a case of light beer, and i'd consider moving north.

[IntravenousDemilo]

20. Jeez, I never heard of that before.

I always thought fishing was an excuse to drink. I see tipsy anglers all the time. Did someone ding you for it? If we have a rule against FUI (fishing under the influence), I'd suggest you keep doing it, but put some Coke cozies on your beer cans.

Now, throwing the empties into the lake, that's frowned upon.

As to the $40 for a two-four of light beer, keep in mind that a) it's Canadian dollars, and b) our light beer is kinda like your, uh, heavy beer, or so I suspect, since they never seem to put the alcohol content on the bottles down there (are they ashamed it's so weak or something?).

Oh, and welcome to Canada (one day).

[Tyler Durden]

23. The difference between US and CDN beer:

Canadians put the decimal AFTER the 5, instead of before it.

And if you look a few posts down, that guy brags about being a multimillionaire. I ain't got the pot to piss in. Braggart.

[Tyler Durden]

16. Standard of living/temporary right of "free speech" .....

....do not a "Republic" make.

You're being bribed. Do you enjoy being bribed? I don't.

[mike923]

19. I do enjoy the things i enjoy....

I like living where i can't see my neighbors. I like having the option of fishing before, or after work, each and every day. I like that i grow up in poverity, and will retire a mulit-millionaire.

Trust me, i used to get all twisted up in the day's political events, but i made a decision 6 months ago to stop watching the cable news networks. The quality of my life increased ten fold.

Have a great weekend, i'm going to.

[Tyler Durden]

21. Have a good time, Chum.

The lifestyles of the Rich and Oblivious.

No offense intended, but Andrew Caregie said that anyone who dies rich is a criminal. Start spending.

[tom_paine]

24. Yes, many of us still have good & pleasant & free-ish lives

So it was for the Romans during the early Empire. It wasn't until the late reign of Tiberius & Caligula that the Romans realized that maybe dismantling their Republic wasn't the best of ideas.

Though it probably seemed so at the time.

Same as it is here. Yes, what remains of the Old America suffuses many of our lives with a serene deniability. But Tyrannies start from the TOP on DOWN. And things which seem to make no difference in our personal lives of fishing, BBQs, family, and fun will pay future genrations back in spades.

Already the lifeboat is shrinking. More people in poverty, fewer good jobs, America gone from most respected beacon of freedom to most hated & feared Tyranny. Yes, even more than China and they make no bones about being Totalitarians, while we hide our growing Totalitarianism with platitudes. The Executive Branch now lying on a level not generally associated with Free Nations. Unemployement 4.9%..better than Clinton? HAH! Inflation under control? HAH! (Bought anything lately?) Air quality in NYC after 9-11 okey dokey? Yeah, sure.

Do people learn nothing from history? By the time things get bad enough to affect our personal lives (especially those of us in the middle class) IT IS TOO LATE.

I understand your denial. I understand your blindness. I wish I was as blind, too, sometimes. Because even though I can go fishing, drink brewskis, have BBQs on my very own deck with my very own patio furniture, I have read too much history to think that just because I am personally doing fine, everything is therefore fine.

Sometimes a tree looks fine from the outside, yet is rotten inside. You never know until the final storm blast knocks it over.

[tom_paine]

22. 1776-2000 RIP

Yes, I am well aware the seeds were sown long ago, perhaps even in 1947 with the National Security Act that facilitated the rise of the lawless Busheviks and the end of America.

But 2000 was the visible final nail in the coffin. We no longer elect National Leaders. And while we may still elect local officials, Bushevik Tyranny is the one aspect of "trickle-down" that works.

[Javaman]

25. It ended around 1946-7. Once the military industrial complex...

the pharmaceutical firms and the agra-corps realized that there was a lot of money to be made on fear and ignorance, the U.S.A. ended as we had known it. The cold war only fed into this machine. I maintain to this day, that the "cold war" was all bullshit, orchestrated by the weapons companies to make money.

I look at the cold war this way. It was like the concept of "a job for life" in the old days. Then it ended because someone somewhere screwed to many people over something and the party was over.

Then a new breed of contract employee took over, streamlined the process, got rid of overhead and they saw that their profits quadrupled because rather than sell to a "them and us" type of world, they found that selling to anyone that had a buck, real or imagined, was a client.

So as long as there are giant weapon manufactures out there, there will always ALWAYS be war. Bank on it.

And while there is always war, there will be needs for new meds. Our drug induced culture of pill popping fiends to solve everything has given rise to the personal fear and a better life through medication. There is a pill for everything now. Think about it. We live in a world that promotes drug use like it's the new style in Vogue and yet people are amazed as to why we have a illegal drug problem. Flat out amazing.

So while people are living in fear of terror, fear of bad health, why not live in fear of normal food? Agra-corps have basically taken over all of food production. What have they done? They have produced frankenfoods and frankenvegetables that are "better" that the real thing. However, they really don't test them so better watch out that that tomato you are wolfing down doesn't kill you.

We are in the dark ages folks. We are in the land of ignorance. We are in the world where war is now the only solution. Because these people in charge* don't give a flying fuck about me or you. It's profit margins they are looking out.

As a nation, we are the living dead.

In ancient Rome, while they were getting sacked, on what appeared to be regular intervals, the average citizen was afraid but they continued on their merry way, believing that leaders in Rome would look out for them an save them. What they didn't know was, not only did the leaders not give a shit about them, those leaders had either left or had been working with the same people sacking the country. As long as the leaders got their cut, they threw the doors open.

The doors are open folks, in fact they have been removed from the hinges.