Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

It is time for TERM LIMITS for the Supreme Court.

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU
 
Karmadillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-09-05 08:48 AM
Original message
It is time for TERM LIMITS for the Supreme Court.
Traitors, stealth candidates, extreme mediocrities, all get to stay until they croak. Lifetime appointments are not a good idea and are not even remotely necessary for the Court to play its role of protecting democracy (as if the current anti-democratic court has any intention of doing such a thing). The proposal below is certainly worth a look.

http://www.news.cornell.edu/Chronicle/05/1.27.05/Cramton_supremes.html

<edit>

The idea has picked up speed recently, due in part to a nonpartisan proposal Cramton co-authored with Paul Carrington, a colleague at Duke University, that was written about in The New York Times, USA Today and The National Law Journal this January. Their proposal, the Supreme Court Renewal Act, has gathered more than three dozen signatures among legal scholars around the country from both sides of the political spectrum. It will be published later this year in Duke's law journal and presented at a special program at the American Political Science Association annual meeting this fall.

Under the proposal, Supreme Court justices would retain lifetime appointments -- just not to the high court. Every president would get to appoint a Supreme Court justice every two years, in sync with the legislature's election cycle, without waiting for a vacancy. Justices would rotate off the court after 18 years. But instead of retiring, they would have the option to serve as senior justices on the circuit and appeals courts, similar to the circuit-riding judges of the nation's earliest days, or devote themselves to reviewing and updating the procedural rules of federal courts.

The most novel aspect of the proposal: enacting it would only entail having Congress rewrite what constitutes the "office" of Supreme Court justice -- rather than a much harder to achieve constitutional amendment.

Term limits for Supreme Court justices are necessary, say the authors, because justices on the court are living, serving and exercising their powers as justices longer. The facts: from 1789 to 1970 the average justice served for close to 16 years and retired at about age 68. Since 1970, the average tenure has risen to 25.5 years and the average age on leaving office has risen to about 79. In addition, vacancies on the court are becoming much less frequent, with no one stepping down in more than 10 years -- the longest period with no vacancy in the court's history.

Developments that Cramton and Carrington see as harmful: Appointments to the high court have become much more political, and hotly contested, with often unbalanced results such as one president getting to appoint as many as three justices while another appoints none, and with justices timing their retirements based on who is president. Furthermore, presidents from both parties have an incentive to appoint very young justices, to ensure that their parties' views are reflected in court rulings for years to come. That practice may mean that appointees are untested and inexperienced, said Cramton.

more...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
brainshrub Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-09-05 08:50 AM
Response to Original message
1. Nope. I like the lifetime appointments.
If human lifespans start going past 150... then I would support a 50-year term limit.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Missy M Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-09-05 08:57 AM
Response to Original message
2. I agree there should be term limits for Supreme Courts justices...
and members of Congress. When I think of someone like Strom Thurmond being elected all those years and still serving when he had to be propped up and woke up to vote on an issue it defies logic. John Paul Stevens is about 85 and Rehnquist was 80, that is ridiculous to still be serving at that age.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rpannier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-09-05 09:03 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. Why is it ridiculous
If Sen. Thurmond's constituency liked him why should they be prevented from voting for him as often as they want. To me, term limits are un-Democratic.
In addition, why is being 85 and working defying logic? Stevens is in fairly good health, he is mentally alert and, at this time, fully capable of doing his job. Why should his age disqualify him.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Missy M Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-09-05 09:21 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. Why would Strom Thurmonds constituency want him in office..
when he was clearly not up to the job. It should not be based on liking him when the job is so important. Again, with Stevens he is mentally alert, well I should hope so but that shouldn't have to be a question. We get along pretty well with term limits on the presidency. How would you like bush to be in office for the next 20 or 30 years? How would you like bush to get more of his nominees on the court in the next three years and they would serve for 30 or more years. Do you think that would be good for the country?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rpannier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-09-05 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #9
31. First
In fairness to Strom Thurmond, he had a reputation on Capitol Hill that was second only to Sen Edward Kennedy when it came to constituent service. Until 1988, when you called Sen. Thurmond's office and said you wanted to speak to the Senator, he called back within hours -- no matter who you were (This has been mentioned by many Senators, including Kennedy, over the years). His constituents felt he best represented them. Whether you feel that way or not is irrelevant (unless you are from South Carolina), just like my choosing to vote for and represented by Obama and Durbin are my choices and the choices of Illinois voters -- not yours or anyone else outside of Illinois. It's what being in a Republic is all about.
As to your assertion, how would I like scrubbie to be president until 2100? No I wouldn't. But that's not the point. The point is, "Are term limits really democratic?" I think they are not. The people should be allowed to be represented by whom they want -- Hence Franklin Roosevelt won 4 Presidential elections because that's who the PEOPLE wanted to be President. I find it interesting that you use scrubbo to try and defend your point, instead of focusing in on the only man who served more than two terms as president. Thus making it sound bad to want a man to be president more than two terms. How about this for a scenario -- Iwould like Clinton to have been able to have run again. I would have liked Bill to be President 3 or 4 times. Is that more acceptable to you?
And as I have said before. We have had crappy Presidents, Legislators and Judges over the past 200+ years. We have also had very talented Presidents, Legislators and Jurists as well. The country will survive two, or even three of his picks.
In conclusion, I heard this same incessant whining when Reagan picked Kennedy and Bush Sr picked Souter. Get over it. We'll survive.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rpannier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-09-05 09:00 AM
Response to Original message
3. NO
Making any sort of radical change because people are unhappy with the way the system is working for them is dangerous. Because we don't like scrubbos choices does not mean we should scrap the way the instution has functioned for 200+ years. Let's say we set an 10 year term limit on Justices. All the Clinton appointees would have been finished under scrubbo and we would have more neo-con justices. The interpretation of the Constitution is too important to be left to the whimes of a court change every ten years.
Part of the beauty of the court is it's diversity. One is a Ford appointee, three Reagan, two Bush Sr. two Clinton and one Scrub appointee -- we haven't fallen into the sea yet.
In addition, term limits would have most likely prevented talented Courts, like the Warren Court from leaving it's mark the way it has, because the justices would have been limited. Future talented Courts will be prevented in the same fashion.
The Republic will survive his appointees, more readily then it will survive the hysteria over Meirs (from all sides). We've had crappy, cronies hoisted on us before and we will again.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kralizec Donating Member (982 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-09-05 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #3
22. Agreed and well said! n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-09-05 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #3
25. The one thing the Founders didn't seem to take into account...
Edited on Sun Oct-09-05 10:58 AM by kgfnally
...was the possibility that people would be elected, in large numbers, who actively wish to destroy the government they are working for.

There aren't ANY mechanisms in our Constitution to effectively and adequately deal with the problems we now face in ALL THREE branches of our government. It's the same problem in each case. We have elected officials "serving" the public, who don't want to serve, and actually want to make their service either a detriment to the country or a means to the end of their own wealth and the wealth of their friends.

If anyone here is aware of any letters or essays written by our Founders that indicate they had ideas about what should be done in such a case, well, I'd like to read those. However, our Constitution, for all that it is the model of stable government, does not address what is to happen when those running the system become the single greatest threat to the system.

That's where this idea of term limiting the SCOTUS comes from; I'm thinking maybe we need something a lot more fundamental in place- perhaps something as drastic as revoking the Constitutional rights of those who do serve in office for the whole of their term in office.

No more taking money. No more even winking and nodding at lobbyists. No television, print, or radio appearances- NOTHING that could even start to cause one set of constituents to become violently enraged at another set of constituents.

Perhaps members of our government should have no power whatever to speak against the People. We should treat them as we would those in our military who publicly speak out against their commanders while engaged on a mission.

Another thing we need to address is corporate personhood. That needs to be definitively revoked. It is possible many of the problems we have in this country would be put in a position to be dealt with if we did that.

In any case, it is clear that what once worked for our country regarding our system of government does not work adequately any longer. We need to amend our Constitution so it can deal with threat to itself quickly and decisively. I have no idea how that might be done, or even if it can be done (call a Constitutional Convention?).

I think our Founders would be appalled at the cronyism, backscratching, money, corruption (on both sides of the aisle), and so on. I think they would see the system as failed in many, many ways. We need to do something to Congress, and the Executive, to bring them back into line.

I don't know that term-limiting the SCOTUS is a good idea, but there's a very obvious need for a solution that addresses the Peoples' loss of control over their government. If we, the People, are no longer in charge, then maybe it is time to take drastic and extreme action regarding our Constitution.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rpannier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-09-05 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #25
32. I doubt it
They were well versed and used cronyism in many of their selections to positions in government. The "Spoils System" of government was something that was practiced by every politician during their era. In addition, before we get too worked up and demand radical changes -- those changes have a tendency to come back around and bite people in the ass at a later date.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cornermouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-09-05 09:02 AM
Response to Original message
4. I think a 20 year term limit would be enough to retain stability
and a counterbalance to whatever happens to be popular in the White House and Congress at the moment. Also, we have driver's license examinations for older people if their behavior indicates a problem with mental acuity. Perhaps a similar examination should be created and administered to sitting Supreme Court Justices.

...Hmmm. :think: Would that knock Clarence Thomas out?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
slater71 Donating Member (586 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-09-05 09:03 AM
Response to Original message
5. Agree
Yes, something has to be done. Also in the Congress you get one six year term then you wait six years and run again. Also, no congress or senate person will never be allowed to become a lobbyist.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nolabels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-09-05 09:15 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. Yes, that too
The another simple law to enact would be dropping the idea of a corporation of being a legal entity. If the corporations are run like a criminal agency then the crooks that run them should go to prison. Multi-million dollar crooks should pay in the amount of measure that they have harmed society
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
oneighty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-09-05 09:04 AM
Response to Original message
7. A question or two.
Do all old people think with clear minds?

Was it rational thinking that placed chevrons on a gown of distinction?

Do old people really give a shit about what might happen after their death?

I think term limits in many walks of life might be in order-other than the one dictated by nature.

180
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
enlightenment Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-09-05 09:26 AM
Response to Reply #7
12. Good grief! Are we a little cranky, or what??
To your first question: No, not all the elderly think clearly -- mental acuity does decrease over time; but there are many, many very old people who are in complete possession of their faculties.

To the second: Are you referring to the Roberts appointment? The folks responsible for that are not all that old -- unless you are very, very young. As to rational -- I agree; it doesn't seem very rational.

To the third: Yes, many of them do -- probably more than you do. As you get older your own mortality becomes much more real, much closer. My parents, in their 80s, spend most of their time (it seems) thinking about what may happen after their death/s. So did my grandparents -- and as I approach 50 I find myself thinking a more about what the world will be like in another 50 years than I did 20 years ago.

I understand you're angry -- but it isn't helpful to generalize. It almost sounds like you are advocating euthanasia for the elderly (I know you're not, but re-read that last line. ouch.)

Peace.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
oneighty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-09-05 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. Angry?
I am not the least bit angry.

As a matter of fact I am looking at the world through seventy one year old eyes. These questions I ask are questions I ask myself.

And yes. I doubt seriously if ALL old people really give a shit about what happens in the future where they will not be. If the old people in government cared they would not be messing it up.

IMHO

180

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
enlightenment Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-09-05 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #15
20. Agreed. Not ALL people do ALL things.
However, you did not use ALL in the third question of your original post -- hence, my impression that you were generalizing.

My apology for an erroneous assumption -- and for seeing anger instead of introspection. It is often difficult to accurately interpret a text message, but I take the blame for firing off a reply without more thought.

I still take some issue with the age thing, though. Mostly because there are so many "young" people in government who are also doing a bang-up job of destroying this nation. If we lived in a culture that really valued (not just pretended to value) the wisdom that can (not necessarily, obviously) come with age, than I could see placing more blame on the older folks in government -- their failure would be that much more egregious. But we -- and by we, I mean our culture -- don't value that kind of wisdom, I think. We prefer empty rhetoric and short-term solutions.

I really do believe that politics corrupts -- as in that old saw of Lord Acton -- and affects anyone, young or old, that gets too close to it.

afterthought: having read what I just wrote, I clearly need more coffee. Too early in the morning for either optimism of coherent thought.

e.

:donut:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
oneighty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-09-05 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #20
23. Yes. Bottom line
People are people. There are big ones, little ones, mean ones, kind ones generous ones, greedy ones, old ones, young ones, girl ones, boy ones.

ALL of them are capable of functioning with their very own AGENDA in mind.

I do not trust AGENDAS.

Enjoy your coffee.

180
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
enlightenment Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-09-05 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #23
24. 100 percent agreement on agendas.
Agendas drove me out of the corporate world and they're making me crazy in higher-ed (I thought I'd be safe. sigh).
I probably need to live in a cave on a very high hill.
And the coffee is good. Thanks!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
patricia92243 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-09-05 09:22 AM
Response to Original message
10. They do not HAVE to stay for life. O'Conner is retiring. She has taken a
another post, which makes me suspect of her retiring from the SC, but that is another topic.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TheCowsCameHome Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-09-05 09:24 AM
Response to Original message
11. There should be some kind of mechanism to test mental capabilities.
What happens when one of these justices starts to "lose it"?

Not that age automatically brings this on, but there has to be some kind of safety net should a justice become irrational or be unable to render decisions due to health considerations. I know several folks that have contracted Alzheimers before they even reached 50 years of age. Their minds were gone, period. What protects the Supreme Court if one of the justices gets in this position? Would we be getting decisions from someone unable to comprehend the facts before them?

Some may stay sharp until they are 100 - some may begin to fail in half that time.

Lifetime is absolutely too long to take a chance with.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nolabels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-09-05 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. Frankly I think a few of them lost it long before they ever got there
:rofl:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Toots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-09-05 09:34 AM
Response to Original message
14. I think the Supreme Court would find that Unconstitutional
Power what Power.... I bet they could even Select a pResident for us if we asked....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bowens43 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-09-05 09:48 AM
Response to Original message
16. Horrible idea.
It defeats the entire purpose of an independent judiciary.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Zynx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-09-05 09:59 AM
Response to Original message
17. The problem I have with that is that it places the court at the mercy
of political trends.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jellybeancurse Donating Member (116 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-09-05 10:00 AM
Response to Original message
18. Horrible idea indeed
I tend to agree with what CJ Roberts said when asked about term limits. Basically, you could have people wait to file important cases when someone more favorable to their position is on the bench. So instead of basing an argument on law you would be grounding it more and more in ideology.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
stevietheman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-09-05 10:08 AM
Response to Original message
19. NO WAY. Lifetime appointments are best... reduces politics,
and if we had term limits today, we would have a court leaning even more to the right. "Lifetime" to most justices with any bit of conscience (that leaves out Thomas) would mean they are there to protect the Constitution and leave a positive imprint on the country. They want the history books to write they worked in the best interests of the country.

Term limits would leave them all to think about "what am I doing next?" and this thinking would, IMHO, negatively skew many decisions.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Burning Water Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-09-05 11:48 AM
Original message
As we are seeing now
politics are not left out. I, for one, think that the flaying that Clarence Thomas took during his confirmation hearings set him dead against all possibility of growing in office and leaning left in some of his decisions. He sees progressives in court and thinks, "Those lousy bastards tried to destroy my life. Whatever they want is probably wrong." Of course, I could be wrong about this analysis, but I'd bet serious money that his resentment of what happened is still strong. And don't say he deserved it. He might well have done so, but my experience has been that the more you deserve something bad, the less you are likely to admit it, especially to yourself.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
stevietheman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-09-05 05:47 PM
Response to Original message
30. I doubt that Thomas bases his judgments on resentments.
Surely he is advanced enough of a person to not do that. He however has about the strangest set of viewpoints you would ever find on any SC justice, and appears to be the intellectual junior on the court. He seems to just follow whatever Scalia does, or just takes cues from some undisclosed radical right interest group(s). He's there to promote an agenda he believes in.

This is the justice who never asks questions during hearings. This must be because he knows he would come off as a moron. I can't envision a justice secretly bearing resentments *and* keeping his mouth shut--it seems to defy reason.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Burning Water Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-09-05 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #19
28. dupe delete
Edited on Sun Oct-09-05 11:49 AM by Burning Water
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-09-05 10:19 AM
Response to Original message
21. Yes with 3/4 of congresspersons in the House for approval. Reason
is SCOTUS is in essence amending our Constitution with its decisions just as effectively as would happen with an amendment. SCOTUS decisions are a lot easier than amendments.

Our Constitution requires approval by 3/4 of the states for approval of Amendments. That procedure however gives Wyoming with its 500 thousand people the same voting strength as California with its 35 million. That's a 70 to 1 disparity.

Term limits staggered over 18 years with a new justice appointed or outgoing justice reappointed by the House every two years would be a step toward Democracy.

When right wingers complain about judicial activism, they really mean they oppose liberal activists and support neo-con activists.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Quixote1818 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-09-05 11:13 AM
Response to Original message
26. How about a limit of 15 years? Or not?
That would keep the politics reduced but also allow nut-cases not to be in for 40 years. Then again, good justices would be out as well. I guess we should leave it as is.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Burning Water Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-09-05 11:42 AM
Response to Original message
27. Good idea.
However, the law would be appealed by somebody and wind up in the Supreme Court. How do think those bastards would vote??
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-09-05 12:38 PM
Response to Original message
29. The Bush junta has thrown the Constitution's "balance of powers"
so far out of whack that extraordinary measures are needed to correct it. The chief purpose of the "balance of powers" concept was to protect the Republic against tyranny by the Executive. It has failed--not as a concept, but in practice, under the extraordinary pressure of a fascist junta. It is absurd to think that we have an independent judiciary--at least at the Supreme Court level--given Bush v. Gore, a wholly unprecedented Supreme Court interference in local election rules that stopped a recount that would have given Gore the presidency.

We have an Executive that was installed in the White House, rather than elected, in 2000, and which proceeded to act like an evil octopus, grabbing all sorts of powers that it should not possess, for instance, Bush declaring "his" policy of preemptive, unilateral war (at West Point in late 2002) in outright violation of the Constitution, or declaring "his" policy on prisoners of war, changing their status to "enemy combatants," in violation of numerous laws and treaties, or instituting a policy of torture in violation of treaties, international law, national law, the U.S. Uniform Code of Military Justice, and long-standing ethical principle.

These actions were not "balanced" or "checked" by any other power in government...

Not by the voters, whose sovereign power was removed with the onset of electronic voting during the 2001-2004 period, with "trade secret," proprietary programming code in the electronic voting systems, owned and controlled by far rightwing Bushite corporations (mostly Diebold and ES&S). Thus the revolt of the electorate, which was determined to throw this junta out, was foiled.

Not by Congress, many of whose members were "selected" by Diebold and ES&S, with others beholden to the military/corporate establishment by means of an intensely corrupt campaign contribution system, and also made fearful and silent by poisoned letters, mysterious political deaths, brutal political tactics and (more than likely) secret dossiers.

Not by the courts, which has made only flimsy efforts to protect the rights of "enemy combatants" and no efforts to curtail other wrongful power grabs by the Executive.

And not by the Fourth Estate, which has become little more than war profiteering corporate news monopolies, and, in addition to its general failure to investigate and criticize the Bush junta, outright conspired to help re-install the junta in 2004, by falsifying the evidence of its own exit polls (Kerry won) to confirm the results of Diebold's and ES&S' secret, proprietary vote tabulation (Bush won), thus denying the American people major evidence of election fraud and squelching protests and calls for investigation.

Given this situation--a situation in which an illegitimate government is clearly dictating to the American people and pursuing policies that the great majority of Americans disagree with--it is silly and useless to act as if the "balance of powers" were still operable. It is not. We have gone way, way over toward a fascist dictatorship, and are, indeed, currently hanging over the cliff of complete loss of our democracy.

A similar situation occurred in 1929, when the super-rich and the far right had destroyed the U.S. economy with their financial manipulations and humongous greed, and by their over-weaning power over the government, which refused to regulate them, and which further refused to take any significant steps to aid the general population, which was one third unemployed with many homeless and starving by the early 1930s. At that point, FDR was elected and worked with Congress to pass a series of "New Deal" programs to provide immediate assistance to the poor and to re-start the economy. The Supreme Court--appointed during the "robber baron" era when the economy was being destroyed--began blockading those programs and declaring them unconstitutional. FDR and the New Dealers then attempted to "pack the Supreme Court" (as the rightwing press called it)--that is, to add to the number of justices, so that new, young, liberal justices could be appointed to outvote the dinosaurs. Congress possesses this power (and still does, I believe); the number 9 does not appear in the Constitution (for the number of justices); Congress decides on how many justices there will be. While this effort failed politically, it did pressure the Supreme Court and one of the justices began voting for New Deal programs (thus, the Social Security Act, among other new programs was saved.)

The Bush junta has looted our country into poverty. We are looking at a trillion dollar deficit, while billions upon billions upon billions of dollars are still pouring into the pockets of Bush/Cheney cronies (with a Katrina hogfest now added to the Iraq hogfest). We are facing bankruptcy as a nation and the loss of all ability to see to the common welfare. And that's just for starters.

So, when you are talking about an "independent judiciary" or a "balance of power" in government, or in society, it just seems like a bad joke. What government? What society? The foundations of our society are crumbling beneath us just as surely as those demolished Twin Towers descended in a cloud of dust and disappeared.

IF--and I repeat IF--we can recover our right to vote (by throwing these Diebold and ES&S election theft machines into 'Boston Harbor'), our FIRST problem will be survival--food, shelter, medical care, civil order, employment, and protecting our planetary environment (which we are also losing), and doing WHATEVER is needed to ensure that the interests of the majority are served (as they are not being served now), and THEN we will have the problem of reconstructing our government and legal system so that a PRESIDENTIAL TYRANNY CAN NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN.

To speak of an "independent judiciary" NOW is to believe in a world that no longer exists. The courts ceased being "independent" and became wholly owned subsidiaries of the military-corporate establishment long ago (circa Reagan), with the Bush junta pushing them over the edge into near complete unfairness with one fascist appointment after another.

We, the People, have the right to establish WHATEVER governmental and legal forms serve our immediate and long term interests. We have the CURRENT right, under the Constitution, to elect representatives who will declare the Bush junta illegitimate, invalidate the 2004 election because of its egregious non-transparency and massive evidence of a wrong outcome, and thus render every one of its appointments null and void. Short of that, we can elect representatives to investigate and impeach all current and former Bush regime office-holders, including members of the Supreme Court; to add to the number of justices to outvote the Bush appointees; and to propose and pass constitutional amendments to term-limit the justices, to make them electable (not appointed), and to restructure the court however we wish.

We have the right to toss the Constitution out and start over, if that's what we need to do. Although I approach these issues--the structure of the Constitution and its "balance of powers" concept--with great conservatism, knowing its history and principles, and although I think it is wise to consider the stability that the Constitution has provided (even including its silliest, most outdated features), and most certainly to consider the rights of the individual that are enshrined there, and the perils of changing the Constitution in the current political atmosphere, I nevertheless think that we are fast approaching the point of no return on saving our democracy. We are looking at a potential chaotic bloody revolution which no one in their right mind wants to see.

Yes, it is a brilliant and original concept, having the courts be independent from the other branches of government, and has served us well over the years. But what do we do when the court has been PACKED by a rightwing junta with rightwing justices whose sole purpose will be to protect the ungodly gains of the super-rich and of U.S.-based global corporate predators and war profiteers?

We act to right this ship, that's what we do--however we can. A ship at the bottom of the sea benefits no one.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri Apr 26th 2024, 10:40 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC