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Wingnut: Shrub Is 1/14th NOT Fascist So Stop SAYING That

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UTUSN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-09-05 09:47 AM
Original message
Wingnut: Shrub Is 1/14th NOT Fascist So Stop SAYING That
Edited on Sun Oct-09-05 09:55 AM by UTUSN
Somebody here posted the article below that contained 14 signs of Fascism, so I turned around and sent the link and excerpts to my local radio talkshow wingnut. What his reply amounts to is that he sees ONE of the 14 that Shrub is NOT, leaving a CONSENSUS THIRTEEN, no?

----- The Wingnut's Reply -----

Subject: RE: Nothing to See/Hear LaLaLaLaLaLa

I don't think the Bush Administration has a disdain for human rights and I'm mystified about Democratic/Leftists squalling over things. Their FIRST reaction is to talk about Bush as if he were a Third World Dictator rather than someone trying to protect the U.S. Phrased poorly but you understand. They ASSUME he is malevolent and means ill, means to thrust aside the Constitution. There is no proof for this. In any case, Democrats may get a chance to project America in a couple years. They'll screw it up because they don't understand the threat and the GOP will get back in, again. The Democratic Party behaves like all those Brits before WW 2 who didn't understand what they were up against in Hitler (but Churchill did). Do the Democrats NOT believe we're in another 30-year struggle with messianic philosophy? What DO they believe other than that Bush is bad?


-----------------------------------------------------
Subject: Nothing to See/Hear LaLaLaLaLaLa


14 Signs of Fascism

http://www.secularhumanism.org/index.php?section=library&page=britt_23_2

.... 1. Powerful and continuing expressions of nationalism. From the prominent displays of flags and bunting to the ubiquitous lapel pins, the fervor to show patriotic nationalism, both on the part of the regime itself and of citizens caught up in its frenzy, was always obvious. Catchy slogans, pride in the military, and demands for unity were common themes in expressing this nationalism. It was usually coupled with a suspicion of things foreign that often bordered on xenophobia.

2. Disdain for the importance of human rights. The regimes themselves viewed human rights as of little value and a hindrance to realizing the objectives of the ruling elite. Through clever use of propaganda, the population was brought to accept these human rights abuses by marginalizing, even demonizing, those being targeted. When abuse was egregious, the tactic was to use secrecy, denial, and disinformation.

3. Identification of enemies/scapegoats as a unifying cause. The most significant common thread among these regimes was the use of scapegoating as a means to divert the people’s attention from other problems, to shift blame for failures, and to channel frustration in controlled directions. The methods of choice—relentless propaganda and disinformation—were usually effective. Often the regimes would incite “spontaneous” acts against the target scapegoats, usually communists, socialists, liberals, Jews, ethnic and racial minorities, traditional national enemies, members of other religions, secularists, homosexuals, and “terrorists.” Active opponents of these regimes were inevitably labeled as terrorists and dealt with accordingly.

4. The supremacy of the military/avid militarism. Ruling elites always identified closely with the military and the industrial infrastructure that supported it. A disproportionate share of national resources was allocated to the military, even when domestic needs were acute. The military was seen as an expression of nationalism, and was used whenever possible to assert national goals, intimidate other nations, and increase the power and prestige of the ruling elite.

5. Rampant sexism. Beyond the simple fact that the political elite and the national culture were male-dominated, these regimes inevitably viewed women as second-class citizens. They were adamantly anti-abortion and also homophobic. These attitudes were usually codified in Draconian laws that enjoyed strong support by the orthodox religion of the country, thus lending the regime cover for its abuses.

6. A controlled mass media. Under some of the regimes, the mass media were under strict direct control and could be relied upon never to stray from the party line. Other regimes exercised more subtle power to ensure media orthodoxy. Methods included the control of licensing and access to resources, economic pressure, appeals to patriotism, and implied threats. The leaders of the mass media were often politically compatible with the power elite. The result was usually success in keeping the general public unaware of the regimes’ excesses.

7. Obsession with national security. Inevitably, a national security apparatus was under direct control of the ruling elite. It was usually an instrument of oppression, operating in secret and beyond any constraints. Its actions were justified under the rubric of protecting “national security,” and questioning its activities was portrayed as unpatriotic or even treasonous.

8. Religion and ruling elite tied together. Unlike communist regimes, the fascist and protofascist regimes were never proclaimed as godless by their opponents. In fact, most of the regimes attached themselves to the predominant religion of the country and chose to portray themselves as militant defenders of that religion. The fact that the ruling elite’s behavior was incompatible with the precepts of the religion was generally swept under the rug. Propaganda kept up the illusion that the ruling elites were defenders of the faith and opponents of the “godless.” A perception was manufactured that opposing the power elite was tantamount to an attack on religion.

9. Power of corporations protected. Although the personal life of ordinary citizens was under strict control, the ability of large corporations to operate in relative freedom was not compromised. The ruling elite saw the corporate structure as a way to not only ensure military production (in developed states), but also as an additional means of social control. Members of the economic elite were often pampered by the political elite to ensure a continued mutuality of interests, especially in the repression of “have-not” citizens.

10. Power of labor suppressed or eliminated. Since organized labor was seen as the one power center that could challenge the political hegemony of the ruling elite and its corporate allies, it was inevitably crushed or made powerless. The poor formed an underclass, viewed with suspicion or outright contempt. Under some regimes, being poor was considered akin to a vice.

11. Disdain and suppression of intellectuals and the arts. Intellectuals and the inherent freedom of ideas and expression associated with them were anathema to these regimes. Intellectual and academic freedom were considered subversive to national security and the patriotic ideal. Universities were tightly controlled; politically unreliable faculty harassed or eliminated. Unorthodox ideas or expressions of dissent were strongly attacked, silenced, or crushed. To these regimes, art and literature should serve the national interest or they had no right to exist.

12. Obsession with crime and punishment. Most of these regimes maintained Draconian systems of criminal justice with huge prison populations. The police were often glorified and had almost unchecked power, leading to rampant abuse. “Normal” and political crime were often merged into trumped-up criminal charges and sometimes used against political opponents of the regime. Fear, and hatred, of criminals or “traitors” was often promoted among the population as an excuse for more police power.

13. Rampant cronyism and corruption. Those in business circles and close to the power elite often used their position to enrich themselves. This corruption worked both ways; the power elite would receive financial gifts and property from the economic elite, who in turn would gain the benefit of government favoritism. Members of the power elite were in a position to obtain vast wealth from other sources as well: for example, by stealing national resources. With the national security apparatus under control and the media muzzled, this corruption was largely unconstrained and not well understood by the general population.

14. Fraudulent elections. Elections in the form of plebiscites or public opinion polls were usually bogus. When actual elections with candidates were held, they would usually be perverted by the power elite to get the desired result. Common methods included maintaining control of the election machinery, intimidating and disenfranchising opposition voters, destroying or disallowing legal votes, and, as a last resort, turning to a judiciary beholden to the power elite.

******************UNQUOTE************
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pstans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-09-05 09:52 AM
Response to Original message
1. So this wingnut agreed about #14 Fraudulent elections?
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smoogatz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-09-05 09:56 AM
Response to Original message
2. That torture thing? That didn't happen.
And it wasn't Bush's fault. Or Rumsfeld's. It was just a few bad apples that didn't do it. Sheesh--what a maroon. I don't think he even bothered to read the whole list. And in fact, it's Bush who doesn't understand the nature of the conflict. We're fighting (say it with me, now) Radical Islamist Nationalism. We are, in fact, fueling the conflict with our own misguided policies--the invasion of Iraq, our support for oppressive regimes in Saudi Arabia and Egypt, and our disregard for the rights of the Palestinian people principal among them. They don't hate our freedom any more than the religious right in America does. They DO hate our colonialist meddling in their backyard.
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UTUSN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-09-05 01:11 PM
Response to Original message
3. My Answer to Him - Am I Missing Something Zingy?
Edited on Sun Oct-09-05 01:39 PM by UTUSN
I don't think the Bush Administration has a "disdain for human rights"

Uh, aggressively disenfranchising voters, loosening up to the point of meaningless generations of international protocols and definitions of "torture", and hewing a Taliban-like agenda regarding personal lives would all seem to be indicators of disdain for human rights.

and I'm mystified about Democratic/Leftists squalling over things.

Like the non-stop SQUEALING of wingnuts is just non-existent. All it takes is a puny little made-for-t.v. movie about the RAYGUNS to get the most pitiful stuck pig -- not to mention the "Liberal" media caving-in to it.

Their FIRST reaction is to talk about Bush as if he were a Third World Dictator rather than someone trying to protect the U.S. Phrased poorly but you understand. They ASSUME he is malevolent and means ill, means to thrust aside the Constitution. There is no proof for this.

You ought to be able to acknowledge that a fellow who scraped into office on a fraudulent election and a judicial imposition and who campaigned as a Moderate, whose proponents are one jackboot short of a thug, and who then proceeds to govern as though he actually won a mandate, might be giving signals of acting they way you say we think he does.

In any case, Democrats may get a chance to project America in a couple years. They'll screw it up because they don't understand the threat and the GOP will get back in, again. The Democratic Party behaves like all those Brits before WW 2 who didn't understand what they were up against in Hitler (but Churchill did). Do the Democrats NOT believe we're in another 30-year struggle with messianic philosophy? What DO they believe other than that Bush is bad?

To begin with your last question first: It very well could be that the Democratic Party is in transition after COMPLETING MOST of an entire GENERATIONAL agenda (meaning the great goals of the Civil Rights struggle, the past Great Society), and is sorting out a regrouping.

But I dispute that Dems don't understand the threat of worldwide terrorism. On the other hand, in all of your communications, about ALL that comes through from you is "My-Shrub-Right-or-Wrong"---besides blaming CLINTON for everything going wrong under Shrub and claiming that you would have gagged under the "prim and holier-than-thou" GORE or KERRY, as you've said before.

I dispute your historical comparisons regarding the Dems, whose main SPINELESSNESS has been to VOTE SHRUB'S WAY on everything. They've given Shrub anything he's wanted, so where do you get off claiming what you claim?

Where were you and Shrub before 9-11---why didn't you and he prevent 9-11? What has Shrub done except to squander lives and money on shoot-from-the-hip policies instead of "smart" policies?
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Amonester Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-09-05 01:36 PM
Response to Original message
4. On his "rationale" about WW 2 I think he should answer this
Edited on Sun Oct-09-05 01:38 PM by Amonester
simple question:

Hitler had the most advanced military "machine" of that time under his Religious-Far-Right-Extremism command. Thousands and thousands of tanks, canons, warplanes, submarines, you-name-it, and the factory infrastructure to produce more and more. So be honest for once and explain where are the tanks, submarines, warplanes, canons, am-I-missin-some?

Apples and oranges...

:silly:

Edit: spellinz...
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UTUSN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-09-05 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. It Drives Me Up the Wall for Tweety & Others to Call Shrub
* CHURCHILL

* a Wartime President

* lately, (appointing weak justices) TRUMAN

* WILSON (re-drawing the global map for "idealistic" reasons)
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Amonester Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-09-05 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Not that I'd personally wish it but if it was possible to go back
Edited on Sun Oct-09-05 02:11 PM by Amonester
in time in order to just hear to "who" "almost all?" German radio speakerz were comparing their despicable madman to, it wouldn't surprise me that they'd be quite similar as those (in their own meanings) when translated in English...

In my previous list I "forgot" thousands and thousands of H-bombs (enough to blow up this space ball 6-fold, I heard...), satellites, plane-carriers, laser guided bombs, and the illegal cluster bombs, napalm, and depleted-uranium (radio-active for 4.5 billion years...)

Wonder how the average Germans "saw" the "AntiChrist" of their time...
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