A Man Called "Scooter"

[H2O Man]

{1} "This ardent neoconservative is a leading participant in the network of hidden cells that funneled so much disinformation to our political decision makers outside normal channels. He is one of a handful of senior officials in the administration with both the means and the motive to conduct the covert inquiry that allowed some in the White House to learn my wife's name and status, and then disclose that information to the press."
-- The Politics of Truth; Joseph Wilson; 2004; page 443.

Who is Lewis "Scooter" Libby? Most of the media reports on the Plame scandal report that he is Vice President Dick Cheney's top aide, but focus more attention on Karl Rove, the president's top advisor. But, in fact, Libby is more than Cheney's top aide. Indeed, a closer examination indicates that Libby may be more powerful than Rove. His ability to remain largely unknown has been a key to his efficacy. Let's take a closer look.

In "Plan of Attack," Bob Woodward notes on page 48 that, "Libby had three formal titles. He was chief of staff to Vice President Cheney; he was also national security advisor to the vice president;and he was finally an assistant to President Bush. It was a trifecta of positions probably never held by a single person. Scooter was a power center unto himself, and, accordingly, a force multiplier for Cheney's agenda and views."

In "Worse Than Watergate," John Dean describes on pages 101-102 how Cheney's agenda and views included creating a "shadow government" which he describes as "a secret government -- beyond the reach of Congress, and everyone else as well." This secret government is described in a number of books and articles that I strongly recommend to readers. Among them are Senator Robert Byrd's "Losing America"; Seymour Hersch's articles in the 3-3-03 and 10-27-03 New Yorker; and "The Lie Factory," by Robert Dreyfuss and Jason Vest in the Jan/Feb 2004 Mother Jones. (Dean uses the later two as sources in his book.)

Cheney has put Libby in the position, in effect, of being the head of his shadow government's National Security Council. As such, Lewis Libby has exercised a degree of influence and control in the United States government, particularly in foreign policy, that is in absolute contradiction to what the Constitution intends. His position and policies represent a neoconservative coup that show a disregard for the separation of powers at the federal level, and which have attempted to re-make the Middle East in a way most beneficial to American oil interests.


{2} "Indeed, Cheney and his chief of staff, Lewis Libby, had already participated in drafting a 2000 report for the Project for a New American Century that called for taking over Iraq -- this well before 9/11 -- as part of a larger, oil-minded pax Americana. Thus emerged the early inkling of the military strategy needed to implement the later task-force findings."
--American Dynasty; Kevin Phillips; 2004; page 255

Lewis Libby graduated from Yale in 1972. As a young lawyer, he would become one of the most powerful members of a movement known as the "neoconservatives." In the 1980s, he was most closely associated with Paul Wolfowitz and Richard Perle. He worked for Wolfowitz from 1989 to 1992 at the Pentagon.

It is interesting to note that Libby had learned to keep a low profile as a tactic that allowed him to exercise behind the scenes power. Compare this to, for example, President Bush, who loves to be seen as "The Man." By the time of the Bush1 administration, Libby had become one of the most influential people in the American government

In "Where the Right Went Wrong," Patrick Buchanan -- the Strange Man of the republican right -- notes on page 42 that, "In 1992, when Wolfowitz was an assistant secretary of defense, a startling document leaked from his shop. Defense Planning Guidance had been prepared by Wolfowitz and his deputy, Lewis "Scooter" Libby, for Secretary Richard Cheney. Barton Gellman of the Washington Post called it a 'classified blueprint intended to help "set the nation's direction for the next century ..." '

"The Wolfowitz memorandum called for a permanent U.S. military presence on six continents to deter any 'potential competitors from even aspiring to a larger regional or global role.' Containment and deterrence to defend the West were to yield to a new offensive strategy to 'establish and protect a new order.' "

Bill Clinton's election may have appeared to upset that plan for a New World Order, but that may have been primarily on the surface, where public figures distract the public with their illusion of power. Yet that reality of power which takes place behind the scenes remained the realm of "Scooter."

Dean notes on page 101 that, "Ironically, Scooter Libby represented fugitive financier Marc Rich and told Congress, after he became Cheney's chief of staff, that he believed the prosecutors from the U.S. Attorney's Office had 'misconstrued the facts and the law' when they went after Rich on tax-evasioncharges. This, of course, was one of the principal reasons Clinton pardoned Rich." And, as Wilson notes on page 442 of his book, "Rich is the commodities trader who was convicted of having traded petroleum with Iran in violation of sanctions imposed on that country by the United States ..... Libby is a consummate Republican insider who has bounced back and forth between government posts and his international law practice."

In the late 1990s, Libby was one of the authors of PNAC's "Rebuilding American Defenses." More, in September of 2000, along with Cheney and Wolfowitz, Libby completed a highly detailed yet officially unreleased report which identified "unresolved conflicts with Iraq" as needing immediate attention from the United States. (Phillips; page 294.)

President Clinton resisted PNAC's pressures to initiate a war in Iraq to remove Saddam. The neoconservative/oil interests recognized that Al Gore, though responsive to big business, would be unlikely to invade Iraq in order to set up US military bases and control Iraqi oil resources. Hence, it was important to install an administration that would front for the Cheney-Libby shadow government. Hence, one of the most disgrace episodes in American political history took the stage in Florida in 2000.


{3} "After the election of 2000, son George II followed the Iraq warpath of GeorgeI, even attacking similarly near the midpoint of his term. Arguably more parentally motivated in his foreign wars than England's restored Charles II, George W. Bush was demonstrably more Bourbon in vengeful recollection than France's Louis XVIII. This is based on his reappointment of officials charged, indicted, or tarred in his father's best-known scandal (Iran-Contra): Elliot Abrams, John Poindexter, John Negroponte, et al. The younger Bush also promoted the 1989-92 Bush warhawks most eager for a follow-up with Iraq -- Paul Wolfowitz and Douglas Feith -- and likewise selected his father's Gulf War defense secretary, Richard Cheney, as vice president.
-- American Dynasty; Kevin Phillips; 2004; page 294.

While President George W. Bush and his top advisor Karl Rove were busy at a high-profile level that appealed primarily to the Christian right-wing of the republican party, Dick Cheney and Lewis Libby were focused on promoting the economic and military agenda of the corporate far-right republican machine. In fact, Cheney and Libby were attempting to institute the New World Order that the president's father advocated. This included their support for plans to replace Saddam Hussein with Ahmad Chalabi, and doing business with select interests in Iran. Their power base included neocons in other parts of the administration, including men like Donald Rumsfeld and John Bolton.

Though foreign policy issues had played a relatively minor issue in the 2000 campaign, the neocons were prepared to make bold moves. John Dean, on page 106 of "Worse Than Watergate," quotes New Yorker correspondent Nicolas Lemann as telling a Massachusetts Institue of Technology audience in the second moth of the Bush 2 administration that Cheney's role as co-president insured "swashbuckling adventures, hawkish foreign policy and a more active, interventionist military." Dean notes that Condoleezza Rice was put in charge of the "vulcanization" of President Bush; this included pointing him towards an invasion of Iraq as early as January 2001, long before the events of 9-11.

After 9-11, Libby would be one of the most forceful advocates of responding by attacking Iraq. In "Bush at War," Bob Woodward notes that Libby also took the stance that the anthrax attacks in the U.S. were "state sponsored," and discouraged any attemp to blame them on al Qaeda. As the intelligence community at large discredited each and every theory put forth by the Cheney-Libby shadow government, strange dynamics came into play.

Seymour Hersch notes on pages 227-8 of "Chain of Command" (2004) that, "As the campaign to build a case against Iraq intensified, a former aide to Cheny told me, the Vice President's office, run by his chief of staff, Lewis 'Scooter' Libby, became increasingly secretive about Iraq's WMDs. As with Wolfowitz and Bolton, there was a reluctance to let the military and civilian analysts on the staff vet intelligence. 'It was an unbelievably closed and small group,' the former aide told me. Intelligence proceedures were far more open during the Clinton Administration, he said, and professional staff members had been far more involved in assessing and evaluating the most sensitive data. ..... Senior CIA analysts dealing with Iraq were constantly being urged by the Vice President's office to provide worst-case assessments on Iraqi weapons issues."

Joseph Wilson notes on page 6 of "The Politics of Truth" that, "There had been a number of anonymous leaks to reporters from the intelligence community during the late spring and early summer of 2003, claiming that Vice President Cheney, his chief of staff, Lewis 'Scooter' Libby, and even former Speaker of the House of Representatives Newt Gingrich had pressured analysts to skew intelligence analyses to back up the administration's preconceived political intentions."

And Nancy Gibbs, in "The Rove Problem" (Time; 7-25-05; page 29), writes, "The tensions between the White House and the CIA had been rising steadily in the months before the Iraq invasion, as CIA analysts complained about evidence being distorted or ignored and the White House pushed back with complaints about the quality of the intel they were getting. 'I know the analyst who was subjected to withering questions on the Iraq -- al-Qaeda links by Libby with the Vice President sitting there,' says a CIA analyst."

One of the central points of interests for Cheney and Libby was a report from Italian intelligence that claimed there were documents proving Iraq had attempted to buy yellow cake uranium, a WMD component, from Niger. Two previous investigations had indicated the reports were false: one was by four star Marine Corps General Carleton Fulford, and the other by American ambassador Barboro Owens-Kirkpatrick. The CIA often uses those associated with US embassies to conduct covert operations. Hence, when the vice president continued to pressure the agency for yet another investigation, they sent a former ambassador with previous experience in CIA work in Africa, Joseph Wilson.


{4} "From everything I have heard, the truth may be found at the nexus between policy and politics in the White House. Whoever made the decision to disclose Valerie's undercover status occupies a position where he ... has access to the most sensitive secrets in our government, and a political agenda to advance or defend. ... Only a few administration officials meet both of these criteria, and they are clustered in the upper reaches of the National Security Council, the Office of the Vice President, and the Office of the President."
--The Politics of Truth; Joseph Wilson; 2004; page 441.

On March 7, 2003, the International Atomic Energy Agency announced the Niger documents were crude forgeries. On March 8, State Department spokesperson told reporters, "We fell for it." CNN interviewed Wilson, who said the administration had more information than they were letting on to. Shortly after this, a meeting was held in Cheney's office, where it was decided that there should be a "work-up" on Wilson in order to compromise him if he continued to publicly challenge the administration. It remains unclear if Cheney attended the meeting. However, it is known that Lewis "Scooter"Libby chaired the meeting, which was attended by Newt Gingrich and other members of the administration.

Between March and June, Libby ran the investigation that uncovered the status of Valerie Plame. Wilson notes, "Libby evidently seized opportunities to rail openly against me as an 'asshole playboy' who went on a boondoggle 'arranged by his CIA wife.." (page 442) Also, Wilson notes, "According to my sources, between March 2003 and the appearance of my article in July, the workup on me that turned up the information on Valerie was shared with Karl Rove, who then circulated it in administrative and neoconservative circles. That would explain the assertion later advanced by Clifford May, the neocon fellow traveler, who wrote that Valerie's employment was supposedly widely known. Oh, really? I am not reassured by his statement. Indeed, if what May wrote is accurate, it is a damning admission, because it could have been widely known only by virtue of leaks among his own crowd," (pages 443-4).


{5} "According to sources close to the investigation, Fitzgerald seemed most interested in whether officials who stayed at the White House while the President was in Africa had the memo that week, when the first known calls to reporters took place. Details of the memo, if not the memo itself, may have been shared with one or more White House officials well before Wilson's article appeared. Rove and I. Lewis (Scooter) Libby, Vice President Dick Cheney's chief of staff, have told prosecutors they had never seen the document, according to sources familiar with their statements."
-- The Rove Problem; Nancy Gibbs; Time, 7-25-05; pages 27-8.

In invesigating any significant criminal conspiracy, one needs to look at various suspect's behaviors, including in relationship to procedures as well as other people. Let's look at Lewis Libby. We know from Woodward's "Plan of Attack" that he was one of two administration officials who, though not principals who attended the NSC meetings with President Bush, and the separate ones ran by Condi Rice. Her deputy Stephen Hadley was the other. Woodward notes that "Cheney and Libby were both artists at just going quiet, closing down completely a discussion or interview. The style could rattle their coleagues and throw them off stride. Libby also was an expert at deflecting questions about his own views with questions of his own..." (pages 48-9)

From James Bamford's "A Pretext for War" (2004), we know that Libby was the most active member in the secretive White House Iraq Group (WHIG) and its "perception management" by selective leaks of intelligence to the media. Libby enjoyed the sense of power that came from scripting other adsministration officials' public presentations: he and John Hannah wrote the original, highly controversial speech that Colin Powell gave at the UN to support administration lies about Saddam's WMD programs. (pages 318,336, & 368)

Bamford also details Cheney and Libby's coordinating the Office of Special Plans intelligence programs. Libby was in charge of the effort, with Hadley and Feith, which included a "road show" complete with slides, that defined the administrations' positions on Iraq (page 315).

When the disagreements between Powell and Libby were reported in the New York Times, Woodward noted that Libby blamed Dick Armitage. Libby was furious that his name was in the news, as he prefers to remain "behind the scenes." When confronted by a reporter about his denials of the story, Libby commented, "It's not totally untrue, but untrue." (page 50)


{6} "It's not totally untrue, but untrue." -- Lewis "Scooter" Libby

In Nancy Gibb's article in the 7-25-05 Time, she notes that Libby, who had by then testified before the grand jury three times, and had claimed he learned of Plame's identity from a reporter. Gibb reported that Tim Russert had testified in the previous August about his conversations with Libby; Russert told the grand jury that he was not Libby's source. There is speculation that Libby has claimed that Judith Miller was the source of his learning about Plame.

Fitzgerald's investigation has shown that this is not just untrue, but is totally untrue. Libby, in an effort that involved Vice President Dick Cheney, had other sources, including those from the State Department and their memo on the Wilson work-up. This is consistent to what Wilson wrote on page 444 of his book: "... when Rove learned that he might have violated the law, he turned on Cheney and Libby and made it clear he held them responsible for the problem they created for the administration."

posted by Patrick O'Waterman

[TallahasseeGrannie]

1. Well there is your problem right there

what man allows himself to be called "Scooter"?

[adarling]

6. hahaha

so simple yet beautifully spoken :)

[Spazito]

28. Self-delete, posted in the wrong place, sorry bout that!

[TygrBright]

87. Uhhhhh.... same kind of guy who....

...lets himself be called "Newt?"

That one always cracked me up bigtime....

"She turned me into a Newt!... It got better..."

(Not.)

whimsically,
Bright

[yurbud]

2. kick & rec

[Me.]

3. Linking The Parts Of The Clover

They're finally coming together

"Today, though, the Espionage Act has made it to the headlines. "Prosecutor in Leak Case Is Exploring Range of Crimes," the NY Times proclaims this morning (though not on the front page), and goes on to explain (1) that the Espionage Act is being explored by the special prosecutor and might well apply to this case, and (2) that the Act is alive and well, having been used recently to bring indictments in the AIPAC case among others, as we noted months ago.

Well, it's about time the media picked up on this. Karl Rove and the rest of his merry band are in real legal peril - as has been previously noted here and elsewhere, the Espionage Act applies with remarkable precision to what Rove is reliably reported to have done in this matter, and it appears that special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald is well aware of that fact. Fitzgerald is holding additional interviews with Rove, Judith Miller, and maybe others next week, after which he will have to move quickly to bring any indictments he's going to bring before his grand jury expires on October 28. All will be revealed soon.

http://bluemassgroup.typepad.com/blue_mass_group/2005/10/espionage_act_n.html

[TacticalPeek]

4. Excellent and beautiful.

Thanks for your tireless toiling in the vineyard. Looking forward to the wine.

:)

[H2O Man]

15. Well, it is

John Lennon's birthday!

[Me.]

50. AAh, A Great Libran

Should have known.

[ClintonTyree]

5. Great information........

and Libby HAS been flying under the radar with everyone concentrating on Rove. He's another big asshole I hope is cut down to size by Fitzgerald's investigation.

Kicked and nominated. People need to know more about this slimeball.

[H2O Man]

10. In my opinion

Libby is the second most powerful man in the administration, just behind Cheney. He may actually be an equal partner with Dick. When people talk about how "high up" the indictments go, I think they need to appreciate that. George is annoying as hell, because he is such an arrogant clown. But Cheney and Libby are far more dangerous.

[adarling]

7. Your post has kindof confirmed my fears i have had for awhile

Both him and Rove are evil sob's but i think "scooter" is the one with the golden ticket to jail. He is the one that will bring this corrupt government down.:bounce:

[Pithy Cherub]

8. Is Libby being set up to be the 21st century's John Dean

or is it Karl Rove? In parallel roles both wield the same type of power and control on behalf of their principals. Bush's Brain vs. Cheney's Brain are in a dead heat to see who can cut the biggest, best and baddest deal before the federal prosecutor. Who will win this political skunk pageant? Just jaw dropping.

History a guide for the very smart or a doorstop for the arrogant.

Again H2O Man there are not enough superlatives for your work!:yourock:

[H2O Man]

12. Libby has looked

to Liddy, of all people, as a role model. Libby honestly likes to think of himself in "James Bond" terms. Older DUers will remember Liddy and the cigarettes -- his little test of self-control. Well, Libby used to show off with his copy-cat test, but it was drinking shots. He felt he was a tough guy because he could slam shots down and not have it affect him. (Either it's a drinking problem, or a waste of good shots, I suppose.)

He also fancies himself Bond in the heart-throb department. While most DUers are only familiar with his poetic letter to the stunning mistress of deceit, Judith Miller, the truth is that Scooter authored an attempt at an erotic novel, "The Apprentice," years ago.

I do not think Libb is looking to strike a deal. I am under the impression that he wants to blame others .... including Karl. If you consider that George has definitely called Dad (who fired Karl years ago), and then consider the news that Rove was not consulted in the recent Supreme Court nominee's selection (the aide who was has told reporters off the record that he has a conflict with Rove), there may be troubled days ahead!

[janx]

16. "Scooter" authored an attempt at an erotic novel?!

STOP IT!
:rofl: :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[H2O Man]

17. Your friend the

Water Man does not kid about this. He did. It was reviewed by the NY Times. Set in the early 1900s in Japan, it explores Scooter's rather curious perceptions of the opposite sex.

[janx]

18. And it got a review in the NYT?

:rofl: Oh my God! :rofl:

I can't believe this. This is funniest thing I've heard in a week! (Except that it warranted a review in the NYT--those aren't easy to get.)

Hey. Maybe Scootster and Lynne Cheney should co-author some steamy shit lit, no? :rofl: What is it with this administration and erotica?

[H2O Man]

19. Dick'll be jealous

if Scooter and Lynne spend too much time together.

[Pithy Cherub]

22. that was priceless to me too!

:rofl: oh man, SCOOTER the hooter, man of mystery and lurid faux sex novels...:rofl:

[H2O Man]

23. Inspiration for Bill O'Reilly!

Strange guy, Scooter. He has some unresolved issues.

[Pithy Cherub]

27. Libby's Loofah... They both want to be martyrs.

;)

[hootinholler]

67. Just made the top of my buy list.

:rofl:

-Hoot

[murielm99]

77. E. Howard Hunt, Watergate burglar, wrote bad spy novels.

I actually bought one during the whole debacle.

[Pithy Cherub]

20. Fitz will roast Libby over an open fire if he uses a Brownie defense.

OODumb if Libby doesn't cut a deal. Libby only has bluffing (albeit in a Bond-ike psuedo manner) left as an option or he is willingly going to take the hit on behalf of Cheney. Libby and Rove are similar to Haldeman & Ehrlichman. Fitz like Sirica doesn't take to being lied to at all well. The same day that 18 minute gap was played, Nixon was announcing in Florida he was not a crook. (All The President's Men, Bernstein & Woodward p.334 soft copy)

So if w calls Daddy and Daddy harks back to the days of Nixon - everybody should get fired all at once. It's highly dramatic and shows the president is taking action. That would be the big Hail Mary then and now. There is no way that Bush is going to be without his star player and Cheney still has his star player, although somewhat weakened.

Daddy Bush would also advise a Mr. Fixit (my humble guess James Baker) because Daddy was present for Iran Contra. Mr. Fixit would need to get Cheney to also bite the bullet as the ultimate solution. Enter Condi....

Or...

[H2O Man]

21. Great point.

I think that the Watergate model fits this case surprisingly well. And I'm sure that Bush1 has told his son to save himself, at all costs.

[worldgonekrazy]

100. Isn't protecting the shadow government more important?

It seems to me that the shadow government is the big thing. It has long been my opinion that the Bush administration is nothing more than a front for this, with Dick Cheney (the real man in charge) representing the direct link to that shadow government. If that is right, then isn't it more important to protect Cheney (and probably Libby as well) then Bush? W is, after all, nothing more than a figurehead.

[Beetwasher]

69. Libby and "Bluffing Like Bond"

Fitz to Libby: "No Mr. Libby, I expect you to die".

[Me.]

9. Fantastic Connecting Of Dots

Here's a bit more info:

"3. Libby had told the grand jury about his conversations with Miller in July, but not about conversations in June relating to the story that Miller planned to write but never wrote. Those conversations would have been hard to reconcile with the story Libby and his friends were trying to peddle: that their attacks on Wilson were purely defensive responses to his op-ed.

4. Unbeknownst to Libby and Miller, Fitzgerald had learned of those June conversations, either from Wilson or from someone at the Times.

5. As Fitzgerald expected, Miller in her testimony did not mention the June conversations with Libby. (Libby's letter to Miller contains language that might be read as signaling to her that she should confine her testimony to the July conversations.) Fitzgerald asked her leading questions which, without tipping her off about how much Fitzgerald knew, put her in the position of having to testify falsely in order to avoid mentioning those conversations.

6. Once Miller's testimony was over, Fitzgerald called her lawyer and said, "Why didn't your client mention the June conversations when she was asked about them?" It was that phone call that triggered Miller's sudden discovery of the June notes.

7. Having caught Miller committing perjury, Fitzgerald is now in a position to, in effect, renege on his agreement to ask her only about her conversations with Libby. Under the terms of that agreement, Fitzgerald can't compel her to testify about conversations with other people, but she can of course do so voluntarily. And Fitzgerald can tell her lawyer that if she fails to volunteer, she may be looking at substantially more than 85 days behind bars on charges of perjury, conspiracy to obstruct justice, being an accessory to Libby's violations of the Espionage Act, or being a co-conspirator with him and others in those violations. (This is perfectly acceptable prosecutorial conduct, not even close to any ethical line.)"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mark-kleiman/patrick-fitzgeralds-mous_b_8569.html

[H2O Man]

13. Re: #4

Or from someone in the administration, who has been talking, and who has the initial H. for their last name. Wilson and the Times may not be the only source; Fitzgerald had it confirmed (he wouldn't gamble without very solid proof -- remember Felt: get 10 times the proof you need!)

[Me.]

51. I Knew Hannah Was A Skunk

but then they're all skunks. Now we need to get Bolton connected to this, which he surely was when he wasn't spying on El Baradei (?).

[hootinholler]

70. A snippet on Hannah...

I tend to collect things here and there...

as Juan Cole writes:

"Hannah had fingers in all three rotten pies from which the worst intel came Sharon's office in Israel, the Pentagon Office of Special Plans (for which Hannah served as a liaison to Cheney), and fraudster Ahmed Chalabi's Iraqi National Congress. Hannah had probably been the one who fed Cheney the Niger uranium story, triggering a Cheney request to the CIA to verify it and thence Joe Wilson's trip to Niamey in spring of 2002, where he found the story to be an absurd falsehood on the face of it."

In short, Hannah was at the center of that vortex of deception that swept us into a disastrous war. When Ambassador Wilson came out with his famous debunking of the infamous "16 words," Hannah was well positioned to go after the heretic.

If we look at the passing of this leak as we would a ball game, as "super smart commenter Sara" pointed out on Digby's blog, the probable trajectory of the ball as it makes its way to the goal goes something like this: "Bolton to Wurmser and Hannah, to Cheney (and/or Libby) to Rove."

From Justin Aimondo's article here on antiwar.com

My money is still on Wurmser as the initial source.

-Hoot

11. thanks for the excellent read

So Rove is more spin, and Scooter is more cloak and dagger. Fitzgerald probably could see the differences from a mile away.

[H2O Man]

14. Fitzgerald understands

personality types, motivations, and tactics. You are correct about the "mile away"!

[me b zola]

93. What an interesting photo!

It is as if the curtain has been pulled back to reveal the man behind the curtain. Definitely a keeper. :)

95. I had the same thought

All of this discussion of Libby liking to be unseen. There is a personality type that likes to operate from behind the scenes. He and Cheney must fit into this category.

[Beam Me Up]

24. Thank you, H2O Man. Another great report! Just gave you the 10th nom.

This is why I love DU! Without work like this, how would we understand what is going on? Hats off and a salute :patriot:

[DearAbby]

30. excellent informative read H2Oman

made this complex case alittle easier to understand.

[mod mom]

25. Excellent post h20man! I have gotten to look forward to your posts after

crawling out of the deep dungeon commonly known as ER +D. Thank you for your insight. Definitely nominated!

Let's hope after all these indictments and truth coming out, those of us working to expose the '04 theft will be able to present the evidence to the American people. This has more intrigue than any fiction writer could dream of.

Peace.

[H2O Man]

38. The implications of

the shadow government are perhaps no where more mportant to consider than in relationship to the 2004 "election."

[G_j]

26. arrogance

It will be a great moment in history when these people fall from power, and they will because of their fatal weakness: arrogance.

[KittyWampus]

29. Personal Observation:Hadley seems like a weak jackass. Easy imagining him

folding under pressure.

[Eurobabe]

31. His real name is Segway

You know the contraption that did Bu$h in?

[leftchick]

32. So you have read Pat Buchanan's book?

Would you recommend it? I have been thinking of reading it but have so many others to get to.

This is an excellent piece H2O Man. Thank you for shedding more light on yet another nefarious neo-con. May he rot in Jail!

[H2O Man]

36. I read all Pat's books.

While he is terribly confused about social policy, and still insists that Richard Nixon was "not a crook," his opinions on economics and foreign police are worth reading. His tv act is at times tiring, but his serious side -- which comes out in his books -- reminds me of some of my conservative relatives that I enjoy debating at family get-togethers.

[leftchick]

41. I have always enjoyed reading his on-line postings at AC...

They are usually very interesting and quite a contrast to the neo-con crap. That is why I thought I might be interested in his book. His Nixon shtick is very stale. He actually reminds me a lot of my Father sad to say.

[Seansky]

33. What could the real motive/goal of these men be to go so far in their

Machiavelli efforts? It seems that the appearance of becoming another "Alexander" just don't click.

Cheney's health? Would it allow him to be here long enough to see their power/control of the world's oil materialize?

What is their real goal? Can simple power and control be the reason? I have read so much history that it I wouldn't doubt it if it were for the fact that people like Libby don't even want to be in the public eye.

Weird.

GREAT ARTICLE BTW. Nominated.

[Just Me]

54. Money IS power to these people.

They've been backing the most egregriously oppressive and predatory activities by multi-national corporations that, basically defraud and bankrupt smaller nations into powerless economic positions. If those nations' leaders fail to continue to cooperate with corporactic profiteering, the power of the riches nation on earth, it's resources and it's supreme WMDs are utilized to wage the rule of force.

It's pitiful. Actually, it's inhumane and evil: the extreme exploitation by these bastards. They don't give a damn about "democracy" or "freedom" or "compassion" or humanity, except to the extent they can employ and exploit such ideals and potential for their own stingy benefit.

They are unethical, amoral, evil people that aren't bothered whether their influence is destructive or not,...as long as they personally benefit. Predatory, human barbarians.

[Seansky]

57. I never got the people for whom no amount of money is enough.

How much money do they need to be satisfied, if that is the motivation. How much money do they need to prove they are IT?

I'm actually glad I don't get it.

[H2O Man]

58. There comes a time

when it becomes the activity of acquiring the money, rather than the money itself, that stimulates the old brain cell connections. It's like a person who collects any given object: after getting a dozen or a hundred or more, it isn't the object that gives pleasure. It is the acquiring of the object that becomes, in essence, an addiction.

Erich Fromm's "To Have or To Be?" is a wonderful book that addresses related topics.

[H2O Man]

79. Perhaps money isn't the entire

answer. Money is part of "power." But it isn't the only part. In the past two months, in a number of discussions similar to this one, I have suggested that people look at the root of the word "power," which is the Latin "posse" .... meaning to possess the ability.

Let's look at this case is that context.

Again, to go to Buchanan's book, "Where the Right Went Wrong," subtitled "How Neoconservatives Subverted the Reagan Revolution and Hijacked the Bush Presidency." I am not asking anyone to be invested in Pat's fondness for the Reagan doctrine -- quite the opposite. I do think it is worth examing what he is saying in the sense that the Bush2 presidency has been the host, as it were, for the parasite of neoconservatism. (Again, Dean's "Worse Than Watergate" spells this out beautifully, from pages 101 to 173. One need not be in favor of Dean as a person, to respect his insights.)

Now, back to that rascal Buchanan: regarding Paul Wolfowitz, who Pat recognizes as presenting a serious and persistent threat to our constitutional democracy, we read from his section "Who is Wolfowitz" about him and Libby planning to enforce the Bush1 plan for a New World Order with US military bases on 6 continents. Why?

Buchanan writes, "Under the Wolfowitz Doctrine, U.S. military supremecy was to remain sufficiently dominant to deter all 'potential competitors from even aspiring to a larger regional or global role.' Wolfowitz had determined the United States could never again permit any nation -- Russia, Germany, Japan, China, India -- to rise to the status of regional power. Moreover, the Pentagon anticipated wars for purposes far beyond protecting U.S. interests.

" 'While the U.S. cannot become the world's "policeman," by assuming responsibility for righting every wrong, we will retain the preeminent responsibility for addressing selectively those wrongs which threaten not only our interests, but those of our allies or friends, or which could seriously unsettle international relations.' "

After including that quote from the Libby-Wolfowitz document from 1992, Buchanan notes that it reappeared in 2002, as part of VP Cheney's White House policy document, titled "The National Security Strategy of the United States." We then witness one example of power in the context of "posse" -- or possessing the ability to make an idea from 1992 into a formal policy in 2002. That's power that money can't buy .... but that can be translated into making more money. For as Senator Edward Kennedy said of this Libby-Wolfowitz policy, it "appear(s) to be aimed primarily at finding new ways to justify Cold War levels of military spending."

But let's take it a step further. Is not this Libby-Wolfowitz policy not the parent of the neocon spy/AIPAC scandal? Indeed, four short years after the Libby-Wolfowitz document, Doug Feith, Richard Perle, and David Wurmser collaborated on a policy paper titled, "A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm." Information on it is found in Buchanan's book, just after his examination of Wolfowitz. These three, who should probably be called "necroconservatives," wrote that, "Israel can shape its strategic environment, in cooperation with Turkey and Jordan, by weaking, containing, and even rolling back Syria. This effort can focus on removing Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq -- an important Israeli strategic objective in its own right ..."

The following year, necroconservative Wurmser advocated that "Israel and the United States should ... broaden the conflict to strike fatally, not merely to disarm, the centers of radicalism in the region -- the regimes of Damascus, Baghdad, Tripoli, Teheran, and Gaza. That would establish the recognition that fighting either the United States or Israel is suicidal." In January, 2001, Wurmser published a US-Israeli war plan that stated, "Crises can be opportunities." Coming nine months before 9-11, that struck even Mr. Buchanan as odd.

80. wolfowitz lives up to his name

The guy looks like a wolf-monger to me.

My father used to say to watch out for Buchanan and religious right, but Buchanan always struck me as rather benign.

[Me.]

88. Keep Going...

kick

[Me.]

59. New World Order

A serious matter that has been in contention, behind the scenes, for quite a while. The shadow government set up by Cheney can be read as the proxy for the one they'd like in place should they succeed in putting in a NWO.

[H2O Man]

60. Let's review what Byrd wrote:

"Losing America" was Senator Robert Byrd's warning to the American public that democracy was at risk in Bush's world. On page 78, he notes, "Only hours after the September 11 attacks, the administration installed a 'shadow government' of about a hundred senior executive branch officials to live and work secretly outside Washington at two East Coast locations, reportedly run from the White House. White House chief of staff Andrew Card directs the shadow government from the White House, where he is immune from giving testimony to congress (have we heard this before?). The shadow government is supposed to assume command of the government in case of a national emergency. Of course, this shadow government consists of one branch only, the executive branch.

"This shadow government was created under the authority of the 'continuity of operations' plans left over from the Cold War and executive orders issued by Ronald Reagan. However, the Congress has not sanctioned the shadow government, nor were members of Congress even made aware of its existence until the story was leaked in March 2002. This shadow government has been described as an 'indefinite precaution,' which can mean anything. While a few newspaper stories appeared in March 2002, very little new information has been reported since then. The shadow government is presumed to continue its operation outside of congressional oversight."

Dean's book "Worse Than Watergate" has a chapter called "Cheney's Shadow National Security Council," found on pages 101 to 105. He notes that the "shadow NSC" is one in the same as the "shadow government" that others wrote of. This is the shadow government set up by Cheney and Libby.

I think that it is unclear to what extent this is still in force. I do think it is a topic worthy of our consideration. On the surface, it may sound like a fantasy, but it is well-documented by men like Senator Byrd and John Dean. I think that the operation to expose Plame's identity, and to derail whatever investigation into the sale of WMD components (including potentially exposing the forged yellow cake documents) is best viewed as one of Scooter's "security operations."

[Seansky]

62. so the shadow government is just to divert power to a handful of

money/power mongers that want to control...oil resources????

If it is shadow, what are they controlling or trying to control since they aren't dealing with legislation, policies and so on? Unless, their shadow changes in policies and so on are taking place so deep into the system we aren't even noticing it...

I feel we are living inside of one of those mystery/conspiracy/crime/action novels with all the components into a single chapter. If one could have even conceived writing such a complex conspiracy novel, the world would think it was too far fetched...

[Me.]

99. Shadow Governments & NWO

is a topic worthy of consideration, in fact it's crucial for unless all this is truly brought out into the open, they will all continue to think they can operate with impunity.

[Seansky]

61. yeah, but do they really expect that they will gain control of the world

and for what again? No even small dictators in third world countries or any dictator/tyrant/king/conquerer in history has ever been able to keep control of a small geographical area and population.

How could these men even believe they could obtain, and even keep, control of the country, much less control of the world, with their NWO??? Particularly with today's Internet and globalization?

It seems there is some real craziness going on, or the big money mongers behind this "government cronies" has over reached with their dreams of global power...

[Me.]

65. Well Let's See

We had B^^^ trying to federalize Louisiana, saying we'll need the military to take over if any epidemics should hit, we have DHS security now with Chertoff in charge and the Patriot Act which they want to extend and empower even more, mercenaries are being hired by the government and the media is still in their pocket, and now there are stories here and there where servers are cracking down on sites and talk of greater control. So they control the message and have the muscle. While people want to fight for their rights, who will be the first on the beach? And we aren't talking about tin pot dictators here, more Bilderbergs and tri-laterals on up, and anyone else who may be in the mix.

[Seansky]

66. but as you said, they try..you really think they could get any of it

far enough to get anywhere at all?

[Me.]

76. They Will

if we let them. If the American public allows itself to wage war based on false premises, to have their treasury bankrupted, to allow it's citizens to suffer and die in a disaster, lets elections be stolen. If we submit and allow our voices to be silenced, our power taken away, we will have very few defenses. That's why Plame/AIPAC are so important. Light of day is what is needed and for the people of America to pay attention.

[hootinholler]

81. Especially when we're painted with the broad brush as

Conspiracy theorists. One of the first things * declared publicly after 9-11 was that we must not listen to conspiracy theories.

On another note, I think they really didn't realize the potential of the net when they set thier plans in motion. I think they over-estimated thier grip on the media, or rather didn't consider people would actually talk seriously about them via the net.

Could it be that they honestly think they are saving the country? Are thier motives simply misguided and patriotic?

-Hoot

[Me.]

98. No

Their ideological vision and lust for power is what binds the neos. Acts of treason and espionage are what they proffer. If they loved their country they would have respect for its constitution, the law and the citizens of the country. As has been stated many times, the nickname the BFEE have for the people of this country is fodder. That, pretty much says it.

[ToolTex]

110. You guys seem way behind. They have already done it.

We are in a war the CIA didn't believe in, the State Department didn't want, POTUS didn't need, much care about, or probably even understand. The intel was quite obviously aligned between CIA (Bush1) and KGB (Putin); with Putin making a courtesy call on B43 in Crawford after his much longer meeting in Houston with B41. It is just the small front end change going to Halliburton, the big bucks can be tracked through the Saudis and Carlysle Group, (notice where Prince Bandar Bush now works). Why a US base North of Afghanistan in Azerbaijan? Why did British join US in Iraq? Maybe the answer lies in the merger of British Petroleum and Amoco, and the BP pipeline being built through Azerbaijan, Georgia, and Turkey. It will flow $3mil an hour to the Caspian Sea!

Now what I can't quite figure out is why Cheney moved Wolfowitz to head the World Bank. Maybe they just missed the personal service they used to get from BCCI.

[Spazito]

34. Excellent post!

A very heavy read, much to chew on, thanks for doing all the work on this.

[Stephanie]

35. Check out this photo >

They are watching Bush speak to reporters, but I'm trying to remember what was happening that day.

What a rogues's gallery!


________________________



Vice President Dick Cheney, right, and senior White House staff members, from left to right: Deputy Chief of Staff Karl Rove; Counselor to the President Dan Bartlett; Chief of Staff to the Vice President Scooter Libby; Deputy Chief of Staff Harriet Miers; listen to President Bush in the Rose Garden of the White House Friday, July 1, 2005 in Washington. New York Times reporter Judith Miller was released Thursday Sept. 29, 2005 after agreeing to testify in the investigation into the disclosure of the identity of a covert CIA officer, after securing an unconditional release from Libby, to testify about any discussions they had involving Valerie Plame. (AP Photo/Charles Dharapak)

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/050930/480/ny13209300054

[H2O Man]

37. Chipper

looking crew, eh? Upbeat, positive. Looks like a police line-up.

[hootinholler]

82. They look like "Can we pull *this* one off?"

Or maybe "please don't let him screw the pooch on this."

From the white house site July 1, 2005:
President Delivers Remarks on Justice Sandra Day O'Connor's Resignation

Now, here's an oddity:

On June 20, 2005, the PAC Progress For America registers the domain JusticeRoberts.com.

Justice O'Conner resigns on July 1.

Roberts Nomination is announced July 20.

Contrast with Justice Miers website being registered only the Thursday before her nomination.

-Hoot

[loudsue]

39. Great work, H20 Man!

:applause: Brilliant!! I'm dazzled! :loveya:

I still wonder, what, exactly, Libby was trying to say to Judith Miller about the "aspens turning together". He wrote this to her on the eve of the weekend gathering in Aspen, Colorado, where reports came out that the republicans were trashing the Bush administration. I can't remember if it was Novakula or who it was that reported that he was trying to stand up for Bush during the trashing session, and that some long-time bush fans came up to him afterward, and thanked him for standing up for bush.

It's obvious that some republican power-hitters were trashing Bush, and it would appear that some "powers that be" are in the process of dealing out a cummupance to Bush. But does it INCLUDE Cheney? Or is it a group who wants Cheney (and/or the neocons in general) to take over, and leave Bush out of the inner circle?

I've wondered: Is CHENEY (or his office, i.e., Libby) behind this, since these ARE the neocons? Or is there an effort to derail the neocons, AND bush (who is more of a corporatist), by some power who is even greater and more powerful than Cheney & friends?

And given all of that, WHOSE side of that mess is Fitzgerald on, if he's on any side at all?

Libby's cryptic message to Judith obviously had something to do with the meeting set to start the next day in Aspen. Where, indeed, people were "turning" on Bush, according to the news articles. But what did Libby already know about it?

:shrug: I guess what REALLY bothers me about all of this, is that in spite of reading your wonderful post, and some things that other great DU researchers have put together, I keep feeling this irritating "black hole" looming, that contains something that I/we CAN'T SEE -- that is going to be a BOMB of a surprise in all of this. And I also keep feeling that this BOMB will be something that will help prevent us from getting to the real root of the problem, but will only distract everyone enough so that the greatest evil can slide under the radar. But these are mostly my "feelings"....sort of like my radar keeps waiting for something that finally turns all the lights on!

Who are the "aspens" (republicans in Aspen, Colorado) that are "turning together" that are ganging up on Bush, and what are their intentions?

Am I making any sense here?

:kick:

[H2O Man]

40. "aspen"

is also an adjective ......

[loudsue]

43. I don't get it....

Whazzat mean?? :rofl:

Cummon, H20 Man!! Some of us need it spelled out!! I was blonde as a child, and I still have latent tendencies toward blondness!!

:kick:

[H2O Man]

44. It's the simplest

possible interpretation .... Lewis is saying that Fitzgerald is shaking the tree, but if the group is rooted together, they'll be okay.

[loudsue]

47. Gotcha! Thanks! n/t

:kick::kick::kick:

[janx]

48. "quaking aspen"

yep.

[Straight Shooter]

49. Another very intriguing religious interpretation of Aspen, from Wikipedia

The aspen tree's quivering leaves are, in Christian lore, said to be the result of arrogance at the Crucifixion because the aspen did not tremble like other trees. A German version claims that the aspen was the only tree to refuse to acknowledge Jesus' divinity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspen

Thanks for the update, H20.

[Oilwellian]

45. Here are your Aspens

ASPEN, Colo. -- For two full days, George W. Bush was bashed. He was taken to task on his handling of stem cell research, population control, the Iraq war and, especially, Hurricane Katrina. The critics were no left-wing bloggers. They were rich, mainly Republican and presumably Bush voters in the last two presidential elections.

The Bush-bashing occurred last weekend at the annual Aspen conference sponsored by the New York investment firm Forstmann Little & Co. Over 200 invited guests, mostly prestigious, arrived Thursday night (many by private aircraft) and stayed until Sunday morning for more than golf, hikes and gourmet meals. They faithfully attended the discussions presided over by PBS's Charlie Rose on such serious subjects as "global poverty and human rights" and "the 'new' world economy." The connecting link was hostility to President Bush.

"All discussions are off the record," admonished the conference's printed schedule. Consequently, I will refrain from specifically quoting panelists and audience members. But the admonition says nothing about personal conversations outside the sessions. Nor do I feel inhibited in quoting myself. Even if I am violating the spirit of secrecy rules, revealing criticism of Bush by this elite group, and the paucity of defense for him, is valuable in reflecting the president's parlous political condition.

http://www.townhall.com/opinion/columns/robertnovak/2005/09/22/155676.html

[loudsue]

46. Thanks! Yep, that was it!

Pretty informative, huh?

:kick:

[robertpaulsen]

42. Very good! Some info I had forgotten about...

that caught my eye. Interesting but not surprising that Libby and Hannah put the speech together that Colin Powell read at the UN. This is, of course, the speech Powell now refers to as the lowest point in his career, if I recall correctly. It's too bad Powell couldn't have insisted that Libby and Hannah sit behind him, instead of Tenet and Negroponte.

Thanks for reminding people about Powell's friend Armitage. I knew about the animosity between Armitage and Bolton, but was unaware that it also extended to Libby. Not surprising, but very interesting!

[understandinglife]

52. Another jewel from the waterman!! Bookmarked and Recommended.

Thank you.

(fyi - Will have near-final version of the pamphlet by tomorrow night -- lots of good critique and edits from our DU colleagues and others.)


Peace.

[Just Me]

53. I am, actually, more intrigued by "The Judy" *LOL*.

She "willingly" participated in manipulative (FALSE) propaganda, feigned "principles", "played" marty, and "discovers" notes at the last minute of a historical investigation.

I can't decide whether it is blind ambition, participation in the "shadow government", or a willingness to attempt to "stage" reality as she would like it to be, which has driven her actions and behavior. Perhaps, all three drove her.

Is she a criminal or a blindly ambitious journalist?

I still think she is a criminal,...that was a journalist.

[Peace Patriot]

104. I don't think she was just messing around in Iraq with her "embed"

contract signed by Donald Rumsfeld, hunting for WMDs. I think she expected to "find" the WMDs they were planning to covertly deposit there. Plan got foiled. Plame got outed, and David Kelly got killed, for knowing about this or having a hand in foiling it. The Wilson article was expected, and long planned for (and he was possibly even set up) to discredit the CIA when the planted WMDs were found. But out of the blue, Tony Blair calls them on July 7, 2003 (Hutton report) and warns them that Kelly knows. They then fall all over themselves--contacting at least SIX reporters--and put numerous top Bushites at great risk of treason charges, to get her outed and disabled, silence her, punish her (with punishing Wilson as the cover story). She's outed 7 days later. 4 days later, Kelly found dead in highly suspect circumstances. His computers and office are searched. 4 days after that, Brewster Jennings is outed (entire CIA WMD monitoring capability--possibly getting covert contacts killed).

Miller had cultivated Kelly for a long time; used him as a major quoted source in her book "Germs." It was to Miller that Kelly wrote his last email (later released by his family) warning of the "many dark actors playing games." His statements were otherwise forward-looking. He apparently trusted her. He had been whistleblowing anonymously to the BBC, starting in late May 2003, about the Brits' "sexed up" WMD intel. He was then mysteriously outed to his bosses--starting the chain of events that led to his death a month later. I think she was mixed up in this somehow. Perhaps she's the one who outed him. She was meanwhile thickly involved in outing Plame on the same matter, Iraq WMDs.

Treasongate speculators (and investigators) really should look at this coincidence of dates. 7/7/3 - Blair warned Kelly knows something more (than "sexed up" intel). 7/14/3 - Plame outed. 7/18/3 - Kelly found dead. 7/22/3 - Brewster Jennings outed.

I think the Bushites were panicky in the way they outed Plame; something very big at stake, far more than an article, or a public lie, or public dissent. Too many of them involved, at high risk, for it to be just that.

[Nothing Without Hope]

109. Fascinating ideas in an amazing thread.

THanks, Peace Patriot - and of course, H2O Man!

I NEVER believed that the Plame outing was JUST to punish and discredit Wilson. There was too much risk and too much urgency in it for that. Only think I could think of was that the whole idea was to undermine and destroy as much as possible of the REAL intelligence-gathering machinery for MidEast WMDs so that the Bush Admin Lie factory could function relatively unopposed.

I do believe that Bolton and his former chief of staff, who kept his CIA links, were involved in this too.

http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?031027fa_fact

THE STOVEPIPE

How conflicts between the Bush Administration and the intelligence community marred the reporting on Iraq’s weapons.
by SEYMOUR M. HERSH
Issue of 2003-10-27
Posted 2003-10-20

(snip)

A few months after George Bush took office, Greg Thielmann, an expert on disarmament with the State Department’s Bureau of Intelligence and Research, or INR, was assigned to be the daily intelligence liaison to John Bolton, the Under-Secretary of State for Arms Control, who is a prominent conservative. Thielmann understood that his posting had been mandated by Secretary of State Colin Powell, who thought that every important State Department bureau should be assigned a daily intelligence officer. “Bolton was the guy with whom I had to do business,” Thielmann said. “We were going to provide him with all the information he was entitled to see. That’s what being a professional intelligence officer is all about.”

But, Thielmann told me, “Bolton seemed to be troubled because INR was not telling him what he wanted to hear.” Thielmann soon found himself shut out of Bolton’s early-morning staff meetings. “I was intercepted at the door of his office and told, ‘The Under-Secretary doesn’t need you to attend this meeting anymore.’” When Thielmann protested that he was there to provide intelligence input, the aide said, “The Under-Secretary wants to keep this in the family.”

Eventually, Thielmann said, Bolton demanded that he and his staff have direct electronic access to sensitive intelligence, such as foreign-agent reports and electronic intercepts. In previous Administrations, such data had been made available to under-secretaries only after it was analyzed, usually in the specially secured offices of INR. The whole point of the intelligence system in place, according to Thielmann, was “to prevent raw intelligence from getting to people who would be misled.” Bolton, however, wanted his aides to receive and assign intelligence analyses and assessments using the raw data. In essence, the under-secretary would be running his own intelligence operation, without any guidance or support. “He surrounded himself with a hand-chosen group of loyalists, and found a way to get C.I.A. information directly,” Thielmann said.

In a subsequent interview, Bolton acknowledged that he had changed the procedures for handling intelligence, in an effort to extend the scope of the classified materials available to his office. “I found that there was lots of stuff that I wasn’t getting and that the INR analysts weren’t including,” he told me. “I didn’t want it filtered. I wanted to see everything—to be fully informed. If that puts someone’s nose out of joint, sorry about that.” Bolton told me that he wanted to reach out to the intelligence community but that Thielmann had “invited himself” to his daily staff meetings. “This was my meeting with the four assistant secretaries who report to me, in preparation for the Secretary’s 8:30 a.m. staff meeting,” Bolton said. “This was within my family of bureaus. There was no place for INR or anyone else—the Human Resources Bureau or the Office of Foreign Buildings.”

(snip)

[Me.]

55. Did I Say That This Is An Amazing Read?

Breathtaking in it's analysis. It's all there, all the answers about Plame, why this admin has functioned as it has, why Cheney became VP, all of it. The second time through is even better.

[H2O Man]

56. I've read it

several times myself. I thought it might lead to more of a discussion about the case. It was about a year ago that there was a series of posts on a similar topic that led to a longer discussion of the case, I think.

[Disturbed]

63. Having read a few hundred pages about this topic I feel

that I understand the complexity of the case, at least from an outsider's POV. I am anxious about what the result of the GJ and the report will bring. I am trying hard not be overly optimistic.

[ToolTex]

64. Will Fitz be able to tie the forged Niger documents to Cheney & Libby?

Will he be able to get testimony that Judith Miller was to be in place in Iraq to report when planted nuke material from Ukraine or Pakistan was found in Iraq? Did Miller testify that the British agent Dr David Kelly was killed because he was about to blow the planned setup and exchanged e-mail with her shortly before his supposed suicide?

Will Fitz get anyone to testify that Italian agent Nicola Calipari who was shot by Americans in Baghdad was shot to coverup the WHIG origin of the forged Niger yellow cake documents that turned up in Italy?

Does anyone besides me remember someone reporting Judith Miller saying just before she went to jail that these men were far too dangerous to testify against?

[worldgonekrazy]

102. Jesus, thats a hell of a conspiracy case

It just seems WAY too complex for a prosecutor, even of the acumen which Fitzgerald obviously possesses, to illuminate in court. Way too confusing. No, I think the best bet is that Fitzgerald nails a few of them for specific conspiracy or perjury charges. While it will be nice to see a few of them go down, the greater picture will remain obscure I believe.

[hootinholler]

68. Complementi! and a query...

We need motive to explain all the evidence.

Could it be that the PNAC's actual plan is to acquire or use a privately owned (as opposed to a soveriegn power owned) WMD? Or, do they just want to sell the parts to make them?

That motive would explain why Brewster Jennings required a second Novak piece when the initial Plame disclosure failed to uncover the US anti-WMD assets.

Did Miller go to jail to run the clock?

One runs the clock to get one's house in order, or to delay the opposition's offense when ahead in the game. I don't think they're running Fitz's clock, the justification of jailing Miller certainly would justify empanneling a new GJ, so who's clock is running?

What pieces have they been able to place on this chess board?

-Hoot

[Me.]

71. They've Already Been Selling Them

to countries like Iran, through Halliburton's off-shore subsidiaries like KBR. The very thing V. Plame is said to have been investigating.

[hootinholler]

72. We really don't know.

We don't know that they've actually sold one or not. I think they're more likely to sell enough parts to get started, but, they wouldn't actually sell one unless the knew they could control its deployment. Also Tel-Aviv hasn't melted down yet.

But, really, who's to say for sure now?

-Hoot

[Me.]

74. You're Right

I meant to say components of WMD, as to the rest of it V. Plame's cover business was investigating that.

[hootinholler]

75. Yes, and the point I'm trying (again) to make is

That outing B-J needs to be accounted for in identifying motives. Simply paying back Wilson doesn't cut the muster.

-Hoot

[H2O Man]

78. Would it seems

possible that B-J was tracking the sources of the Italian reports on Niger (or two other African countries) selling WMD components to Iraq? If, for example, a group within CI found that the Italian and English intel agencies were active in a plan to fake evidence of WMD production/activity involving Iraq, it would cause one to question why they were faking evidence, and on what orders. Because, as sad as it is to think about, someone faked documents to indicate that Iraq was attempting to buy yellow cake from Iraq.

[hootinholler]

83. Maybe,

The forgeries were so obvious, one would think that a government or corporation or even Al Quaida creating them would find a better forger to do the job. Certainly B-J would want to track down the new kid on the block.

This exercise is akin to containing Jello with rubber-bands.

-Hoot

[EST]

96. Those docs were meant to be recognized

as forgeries, even by less than highly skilled agents.

[worldgonekrazy]

103. That is an interesting twist, isn't it?

It makes sense that elements within the Bush administration would have had those fake documents planted in order to justify war against Iraq. But then why the hell were the documents such obvious forgeries? I think you are right that they were meant to be easily recognized as such, which clearly indicates they had another, or dual, use to the administration besides support for the Iraq war.

[ToolTex]

111. Here is my guess on why the forged Niger docs.

I think they had a plan to buy not just precursor material, but refined nuke material, purchased (probably) in Ukraine black market and plant it in Iraq. But they realized late that there had to be a plausible source for the precursors (yellow cake). Not being real spies like Libby fancies himself, but just play spies, they didn't know that Niger's output was pre-sold for several years. So they hastily had some forged docs made and planted them into Italian intel service.

Also, I agree that the necrocons were more interested in shutting down B-J to stop all our eyes and ears human assets in the mid-East, because truth was at cross purposes with their plans, than countering Joe Wilson. If correct this is especial treason when Congress was calling for more and better human intel after 9/11. And it sure flies in the face of the claimed need for the Patriot Acts.

[Oilwellian]

73. This line is fascinating...

"Senior CIA analysts dealing with Iraq were constantly being urged by the Vice President's office to provide worst-case assessments on Iraqi weapons issues."

I've also read elsewhere that Plame was one of the analysts dealing with wmd's in Iraq. How could Cheney and Libby not know who she was, especially since they both paid so many visits to the CIA to "twist arms" so to speak? I think there's much more to this than meets the eye.

[DrZeeLit]

84. Thank you so much for this terrific post. You make DU a five star op!

I admire your cited, research-based approach.
Excellent job!
Logical, factual, and clear.
Bravo!

85. that is one heck of a picture

did you pose it?

[DrZeeLit]

91. Nah... can't take credit... love it but found it. n/t

[H2O Man]

86. One of the things that

I feel strongly about is the Constitution. The idea of a free press, for example. Now, of course the mainstream media is largely corporate. And so we can be frustrated by the fact that a hundred corporations control the news that the public is exposed to. Or we can take responsibility ourselves -- which I suspect is "original intent" -- and dig out the truth ourselves. We can go to the library, or to the used bookstore, or now, to the internet ..... and invest the time necessary to shift through the available information, and piece together a pretty clear picture of what is going on in cases such as this one.

In the past week, I have made several references to the illusion of power versus real power. That applies to information, too. A person can watch Sean Hannity and Bill O'Reilly, and believe that they are informed. Same with CNN and MSNBC. Look at the commercials, and it is clear that the same sponsors are paying for each. CNN is as distinct from Fox as a McDonald's hamburger is from a Burger King's hamburger. We do not need to ingest processed food/news.

[TacticalPeek]

105. Look at the commercials

"Look at the commercials, and it is clear that the same sponsors are paying for each. CNN is as distinct from Fox as a McDonald's hamburger is from a Burger King's hamburger. We do not need to ingest processed food/news."


I'm just practicing repeating that.

[H2O Man]

106. Yeah.

I liked the the minute I wrote it.

[linazelle]

89. Excellent post. Proves once again they will let nothing stand

in the way of their wars and the MIC (military industrial complex).

[PeakOiler2]

90. Motives.....

"yeah, but do they really expect that they will gain control of the world
and for what again? No even small dictators in third world countries or any dictator/tyrant/king/conquerer in history has ever been able to keep control of a small geographical area and population.
How could these men even believe they could obtain, and even keep, control of the country, much less control of the world, with their NWO??? Particularly with today's Internet and globalization?
It seems there is some real craziness going on, or the big money mongers behind this "government cronies" has over reached with their dreams of global power..."


Read "Crossing the Rubicon". It explains all of the neocons actions. Must have world dominance in order to get all the oil we need. And we will get/take it by any means necessary.

There will be mass riots, panic, governments failing,etc. when whole world realizes oil has peaked and our "way of life" is crumbling.

Plus, the oil that is left will not be able to support growing food for 6 billion people. Neocons will take all the help they can get from war, famine, pestilence and disease (watch out for the bird flu--our next 9/11?).

[No Exit]

92. So Cheney did a pre-emptive strike on the Plame/Wilson family...

I noticed some time ago that the administration was being kind of mean to the CIA--talking about "reorganizing" it or something. At the time, I wondered if the CIA would fight back. Looks like it does. Good.

[Mandate My Ass]

94. The nickname "Scooter" is sure odd for a spy wannabe

Maybe that's his deep cover name. LOL.

Excellent post.

[chat_noir]

97. kick

:dem:

Too important to let drop.

[NVMojo]

101. I can see a Shadow Government orchestrating 9-11

possibly being tied to these two. Makes sense now, the orchestrators of the Shadow Government would have had the toy King out of the way reading a book to kids. Afterall, where was Cheney on 9-11?? Uh-huh. Where was Libby on 9-11???

[flying_wahini]

107. maybe you should run for office,

you are pretty damn smart. you would scare the pants off of them

[cosmicdot]

108. kick

Is Richard Perle involved in any of this?



Was the Defence Policy Board used in any way to assist the Cheney-Libby et al workings?

I see that Victoria Clarke is still involved with the Pentagon despite leaving her post.

Is it through the DPB where Newt Gingrich gets involved?

If Perle indeed worked to sabotage President Clinton's Mideast peace efforts, he should be tried for treason.

Was he playing PNAC/neocon/Cheney-Libby frontman to disrail anything contrary to the PNAC agenda?


(the link to the democrats.com full story is broken unfortunately)

Should Perle be Prosecuted for Spying for Israel and Sabotaging President Clinton's Foreign Policy?

12-Mar-03

When Richard Perle called investigative reporter Sy Hersh a terrorist, he opened the door to a thorough investigation of his own background. Perle was caught spying for Israel in 1970 while working in Congress. And in 1983 he was caught taking payments from an Israeli weapons manufacturer while working in the Reagan Pentagon. In 1996, Perle sought to undermine President Clinton's Middle East peace efforts by urging Benjamin Netanyahu to attack Iraq and other countries, to occupy Palestinian territories, and to end the peace process. In 2000, Perle was caught trying to undermine the Clinton-Barak-Arafat negotiations at Camp David. So why was Perle never arrested and charged? We demand a Special Prosecutor!

http://archive.democrats.com/preview.cfm?term=Richard%20Perle

[Red State Lib]

112. Scooter?

Never, never, never, trust a grown man named "Scooter".

[EST]

113. Oh, I dunno about that.

Back home, one of the meanest, most vicious guys I ever met was enormously proud of his nickname--"pussy."

[hiabrill]

114. Wow, is this forum for real

Was looking for info on Scooter and I got treasure trove...!! :bounce: A treasure trove of more or less everything I want to know....

Fantastic forum that'll see my face regularly. Good post H2O Man...:thumbsup: I salute you :patriot: