When Was The Last Time Our Country Despised A Leader Like This

[ruggerson]

I was a kid during Nixon. People thought he was an awkward, ill at ease crook. Many people wanted him impeached and disgraced.

I lived through Reagan. Many people wanted him tried for his policies, especially regarding Nicaragua, homeless people and AIDS issues. But he was an out of touch buffoon.

Unless time has softened some of the hard edges, I cannot remember either man being as thoroughly despised as this President.

This President is more than a hateful disgrace. He has tried to subvert and pervert the very idea and ideals of America. He has tried to take away our identity as proud Americans.

This is what it feels like to have your country stolen from you.

[Wilms]

1. If only because of current population levels...

he's probably hated by more people than anyone in history.

[knowbody0]

2. hopefully we have learned

how easily taken our country was, and that apathy delivered us into this diabolical zone of betrayal and lies. day by day, more people become enlightened and realize there is much work to be done.
peace

[Jamison]

3. Maybe since Herbert Hoover?

:shrug:

[dorktv]

4. I liked what Al Franken said about Nixon...

"unless he was a real asshole like Nixon." hahahahaha

[tinrobot]

5. Hoover?

I honesly think Bush is far worse than Reagan or Nixon.

Hoover is the only one who even compares. He was totally despised by the time he left office.

[eallen]

9. The past is remembered in sepia tones...

Things were pretty damn scary in 1973.

[Greyhound]

6. Yep Hoover is the only one that comes close, but even he wasn't hated so

much that people refused to even type his name.

[blm]

7. When they hoisted the Gadsden flag and said "FUCK YOU, KING GEORGE!"

Really they did. Ask Ben Franklin.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

8. Lol. n/t

[blm]

38. heh...thanks for getting it.

DON'T TREAD ON ME = NO KING GEORGE

[Sapphire Blue]

10. The last leader to be despised like this was Hitler.

Unfortunately, much of America is following this current leader in much the same way that 'patriotic' Germans followed Hitler.

Where is America's WWII equivalent?

[pattim]

13. January 2009

when he by law must leave office?

[Sapphire Blue]

17. Your post, in reply to mine, makes no sense.

[pattim]

18. Sure it does

"Where is America's WWII equivalent?" -- what will be the event that causes him to lose power?

Jan. 2009.

[Sapphire Blue]

28. Hitler wasn't defeated by a vote by Germans.

[pattim]

31. And Bush won't be defeated by a vote by Americans.

What on Earth is your point? Are you suggesting that Bush will be toppled by foreign invasion? That he will commit suicide in a bunker as Russians take the Reichstag? What are you trying to say?

[Sapphire Blue]

33. My point - Hitler was despised by decent Germans & most of the world...

... in the same way that bush is now despised by decent Americans & most of the world.

My question "Where is the WWII eqivalent of America?" was essentially rhetorical, as there isn't another superpower in existence today w/ WMD, military force & military funding that could topple this rogue regime.

No, your suggestions were not mine (though the image of bush in a bunker, blithering away, is pretty funny)... what are you trying to say?

[pattim]

36. Just answering the question.

That's all. I do agree with the popularity comparison, just to let you know.

[Robertwf]

11. Nixon!

Nixon really polarized a lot of people--much like our current Prez.

[pattim]

12. Depends on your crowd.

In the general public, he's not liked, but not despised either.
If you're asking "When was the last time a select group of people despised a leader like this," then Clinton. Because really, from what I've seen, the left is the only group the despises him--and the right despised Clinton. The moderates liked Clinton and dislike Bush, but despise? Not so much.

[Sapphire Blue]

16. Just as Hitler, in Nazi Germany, had the support of many 'patriotic'...

... Germans, bush has his supporters in this country. Hitler's followers probably didn't see much despising of their leader, either.

[I Have A Dream]

21. I have to agree with you, pattim. However, it's very possible that...

more people will despise him as things are brought to light. There's much that is still not known by the average American because of things not being reported in the media until very recently.

Also, I think that many more people will despise B* years down the road when they realize what the true costs are that are associated with the debacle that has been his pResidency. (I truly believe that history will not be kind to B*.)

[Tactical Progressive]

27. You can't compare the hatred of the right with the left

They unequivocally hate anything that they don't control.

Clinton was a good and effective President, and easily the most honest President in decades by the time he left office. He was a thoroughly moderate Democrat who gave the right much of what they wanted in terms of trade and welfare reform, not to mention bulging bank accounts. The hatred of him was unreasoning and unreasonable by any objective measure. The right just hates, personally and ideologically, so there is no basis for comparison.

Bush lied, cheated and stole his way into office, at which time he immediately threw his premeditated lies in everybody's face and proceeded to trash this country, its institutions and its principless, not to mention its skyscrapers, along a non-humble pro-war, govern from the extreme not the middle, divider not uniter plan. Clinton never did anything like that. He never pretended to be a moderate while he planned all along to govern unaccountable from the extreme left. This isn't apples and oranges. The right's hatreds are baseline, not testament to the execution of governance.

Dems wouldn't be hating this piece of Republican evil if he had been a moderate Republican. Righties did under just those circumstances. The two aren't comparable.

[I Have A Dream]

42. Nice summary of the situation, Tactical Progressive. n/t

[Lancer]

14. Much of what you say could easily

have been written in 1973.

Nixon was despised by many; and the librul media kept up a constant drumbeat for two years. Water cooler and dinner table conversation revolved around the shame and disgrace Nixon and his cronies had wrought upon the country, primarily through their illegal wiretaps, use of slush funds and money laundering. All pretty dry stuff, but it made people wonder what else was going on inside the WH. And when the WH taping system was revealed in the summer of 1973, Nixon's desperate, year-long struggle to keep their contents hidden seemed a tacit admission of guilt.

Still, Nixon's base, which was substantial, and many conservative pundits continued to support him for a long time, and "Watergate" remained a meaningless term to many.

In the late summer of 1974, when Nixon defied the Supreme Court's order to turn over the WH tapes, that sealed the deal for the remaining faithful Republicans. Many stalwart old-time Republicans, led by Barry Goldwater, said enough was enough; no president was above the law and abandoned ship.

Every indictment handed down brought a glimmer of hope, but still Nixon hung on. For the last 6-8 months of his abortive 2nd term, he did nothing but tread water. Alexander Haig, WH Chief of Staff, was effectively acting as President.

It was a very scary time. And this was pre-cable, pre-internet… people waited with baited breath for the thwack of the morning paper on the stoop or the 6:30 news to find out which cards had fallen overnight.

And yet… BushCo is completely different. Nobody died when Nixon lied -- although G. Gordon Liddy volunteered to be shot on a DC street corner for the cause, and Chuck Colson (pre-evagelical reform) vowed to run over his "own grandmother to save Richard Nixon."

AND, Nixon's crimes did not extend to starting a vanity war, alienating our friends and neighbors throughout the world, and dismantling the federal government brick by brick, or continually keeping the country on edge with terra threats and endangering many of our citizens with incompetence and open disdain for their safety. W hasn't even bothered to compile an "enemies list" because there's no a database on the planet large enough to store it.

Yes, Nixon was despised, but W's actions and inactions are much, much worse.

[tsuki]

15. Without the war, Warren G. Harding exhibited many of the crony-isms

and corporate scandals that the Bush Admin does. I'd say Warren G. Harding was thoroughly despised. He died in office.

[Lancer]

19. Most of the scandals of the Harding Admin

came to light only after his death, (of advanced stage heart disease.) American popular opinion of Harding remained steady throughout his 2 1/2 years in office. He was a poker-playing buddy of a lot of men in the press, and they succeeded in distancing him from the shady dealings going on in the Teapot Dome oil reserves and elsewhere.

This is a good read:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_G._Harding

[Burning Water]

20. Well, there is Clinton.

Many people despised and still despise him. LBJ was despised by both the left (Vietnam) and the Right (everything else). FDR had many, many enemies who considered him a "traitor to his class". Lincoln was so despised and feared by a large segment of the population that they attempted to secede from the Union to get away from him. His successor, Andrew Johnson, was so despised that he was impeached.

My guess is that many, maybe most, of the Presidents were despised by large segments of the citizenry during their time in office. The passage of a couple of decades or so, tends to blur the memory and the rage. Who is doing the despising, of course, seems to depend on who is in, and who is out.

[I Have A Dream]

22. I think that the right despised and continues to despise Clinton.

However, I don't think that most moderate Americans disliked him even during his impeachment. (I think that they were disappointed, but I don't think that they turned on him to the degree that I think they're going to ultimately turn on B*.)

[okasha]

24. Lyndon Johnson, for many of the same reasons

Quagmire war, war crimes, stolen election, cozied up to KBR and other such war profiteers.

What will redeem LBJ in the long run is his support of the Voting Rights Act and the Great Society safety net programs. Bush has nothing positive to offset the damage on his balance sheet.

[ruggerson]

26. LBJ will be remembered most for the Civil Rights Act of 1964

the most sweeping progressive act of liberation and freedom since the Emancipation Proclamation.

And he sacrificed the South for Dems for the next fifty years in order to do it.

[Burning Water]

25. They may well turn

on bush in the future. Let's hope so. But the original post was about right now. I don't think they've turned just yet, although even many in his base are disappointed, especially in his latest judicial nominee.

Did you ever play chess? In chess, the difference between a brilliant attack, and a disaster is often in the timing. I had a mating attack in a game last week, but I was a single tempo late in launching it, and threw away a vastly superior position. I hope we are not in danger of doing the same due to enthusiasm for the administration's current troubles. If we don't succeed in taking them down when it is finally attempted, they might just come out of it far stronger in 2008.

[I Have A Dream]

34. What do you think that the Democrats should do at this time?

It's off topic (apologies to the original poster), but I'd really like to hear what you think.

[Burning Water]

43. If I really knew,

I'd make a fortune as a political consultant.

That being said, I think they should keep their mouths shut. Right now, the Repukes are tearing themselves apart over the Miers nomination. Actually, the Democratic leaders are doing pretty well on this right now.

They'll tear themselves apart over other issues if we let them. The social conservatives vs the libertarians vs the neo-cons and the corporatists. But if they keep circling the wagons against the Democrats, they won't get the chance. Sure, the occasional pot-shot, the pointing out of Bush's mistakes, the more-in sorrow-than-in anger criticism. These are all good. But the constant "Bush is a liar, Bush is evil" hasn't worked yet, and, it seems to me is unlikely to work in the future. Even if every word is true (I believe they are), it really hasn't made that much of a dent in America's perception.Tactically, I think we are moving too soon with a lot of stuff we say.

Now, I know that Bush's poll numbers are very low. But the next election is over a year away, and a lot can change. Osama may be caught, the Saudis may decide to pump oil like crazy, some great international business deal between India, China, Japan, and the US may occur which will jump start the economy. I don't know, but things might get considerably better before the next election despite Bush. And you know the spinmeisters will be working full time to fool the sheeple.

Now I could be totally wrong, and, of course, if no election will ever again be honest, well, there is no reason whatever to fight. But I believe that if it isn't close, they can't cheat. So, instead of driving the moderates, and even the right wingers that are not totally nuts, away, we should engage in informed and compassionate conversation with them, addressing their concerns first, then melding ours into the conversation.

This is easier to do in individual social interactions, I know, than as a public relations campaign. But you asked, and these are my ideas.

Finally, all this could change with changing circumstances.

[slackmaster]

39. Bill Clinton is seen as a likeable person, moreso than Bush IMO

But the people who despised and continue to despise him politically are just as deeply into it as people who hate Bush are.

[catzies]

30. Perhaps, but recall how high he polled during that. A lot of folks just

thought the hatred was confined to inside the Beltway.

Only people under the sway of Rush Limbaugh actually "despised" Clinton.

[Itchinjim]

23. As my late father said to me shortly before he passed away,

" You know, I hated that bastard Nixon and I thought I would never hate another Republican as much as him, but then that SOB Reagan came along and then I thought I would never hate another Republican as much him. Well I was wrong again. I hate that inbred imbecile Bush more than any of them."

[Sapphire Blue]

29. May your wonderful father rest in blessed peace : )

(w/no bastards, SOBs or inbred imbeciles in sight)

[cassiepriam]

32. My sentiments exactly. Your Dad said it perfectly.

There won't be any repugs in heaven with him but I wish he'd kick some b*tt up there with the powers that be. If anyone can do it, your dad can. What a guy.
BTW I think your dad's quote would make a great signature line for you!

[Itchinjim]

37. Thanks, but the old man never.....

"Raised no flags atop no ship of fools" . And he certainly didn't suffer them gladly either.

[AlphaCat]

35. I, too, was a teenager during Watergate.

I think that the great dislike that Nixon eventually engendered came AFTER his stint as president. When the razzle-dazzle of the hearings and Nixon leaving the White House died down, people suddenly realized just how bad he'd made America look. When Ford finally pardoned him, it hit us all at once that there would never be any real consequences for Nixon. That's when the public's tremendous distaste for the entire episode REALLY grew and picked up speed; everyone knew the whole thing stemmed from HIM.

[Toots]

40. Benjamin Harrison

:shrug:

[MN ChimpH8R]

41. Harrison was post-Civil War

Could you be thinking of James Buchanan?

[kevsand]

44. Abraham Lincoln, maybe.

But that probably shouldn't count.

[baldguy]

45. King George III

But we got rid of him.

[NewJeffCT]

46. Carter, Nixon & LBJ all had lower approval ratings

I think all 3 had ratings in the 20s at their nadir.

[bobbieinok]

47. maybe 'hold in contempt' rather than despise or hate or dislike