Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Will the NYT lose ALL credibility for Judy ties? Will they sell out

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU
 
texpatriot2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-11-05 07:25 AM
Original message
Will the NYT lose ALL credibility for Judy ties? Will they sell out
Edited on Tue Oct-11-05 07:33 AM by texpatriot2004
truth and accountability for power and access? What's their real motive for not kicking Judy to the curb? Why keep her around and COVER for her too with that phony "freedom of the press" rubbish? Why don't they fire her? Why haven't they done it already? Something doesn't add up. They NYT is an American institution that has helped shape our Foreign Policy and Judy used them to peddle her propaganda for this administration. What's with the NYT little statement which basically says, 4 of 6 stories were wrong, we made a mistake we apologize, she'll do better next time and so will we.

It smells fishy to me.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
jsamuel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-11-05 07:28 AM
Response to Original message
1. if Judy has ties to the admin, then so do her bosses
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
texpatriot2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-11-05 07:52 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. True dat. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ChairmanAgnostic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-11-05 07:28 AM
Response to Original message
2. Jayson, Bulmiller and Miller - 3 strikes against credibility.
I would suggest amending your topic line by expressing the fact that they already have lost it.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
texpatriot2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-11-05 07:40 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Thanks for your suggestion I did make a slight change.nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ChairmanAgnostic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-11-05 07:54 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. the why, that is a toughie.
If I didn't enjoy their cross words so much, I would have cancelled it long ago.

Yet, because they suffer falling readership, they cut reporting staff numbers, and fail to review their editorial process that helped get them there.

I don't get it. I don't like it. I have little hope that they will fix things quickly.
lastly, I refuse to pay for their content on the net.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
texpatriot2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-11-05 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #6
17. I keep wondering if it has to do with ties to Israel or Pro-Israel
groups like AIPAC.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ChairmanAgnostic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-05 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. bejEEAZus effin kryst. The unholy agreement between AIPAC and PNAC
explains so much. And it was staring me in the face. What was I NOT thinking?

yeah, I suspect that you are onto a thread that leads to a clue that leads to some IDs and leads to the sick reason why the NYT has been so complicit annd supportive of MIller and ther WMD stories, as well as their lame effort to protect her during this investigation.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
texpatriot2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-13-05 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #19
24. Right, I mean it makes sense the connection. I did some research
Edited on Thu Oct-13-05 04:11 PM by texpatriot2004
the other night. Hang on let me get a link. Be right back.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=5029675

My posts here were what I found. I was really just thinking out loud. I think someone thought I was being anti-semitic but I was just gathering info that was out there. I am not against anyone just trying to explore the possible connection here.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HereSince1628 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-11-05 07:43 AM
Response to Original message
4. Cause they'd be wrecking the role a clandestine agent?
The tinfoil doesn't keep the fishy smell from getting out.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
chat_noir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-11-05 07:56 AM
Response to Original message
7. there is so much here that I don't know what to quote...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-11-05 07:58 AM
Response to Original message
8. It's a de facto admission that her editors and the publisher are part of
Edited on Tue Oct-11-05 08:00 AM by leveymg
the same criminal conspiracy to lie to Congress, defraud the American people, and have members of the US armed forces killed executing a mission that primarily benefited a faction in the government of a foreign power.

It's about the worst sort of thing the NYT management could do, because their role as enablers and co-conspiractors in the Miller scandal erodes the very First Amendment protections this country needs desperately to retain right now.

I would support extending the Fitzgerald Grand Jury to investigate and potentially prosecute others at the Times who may have been working with Miller in this neocon conspiracy.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
texpatriot2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-11-05 08:02 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. I was just asking if the media could be complicit in this
conspiracy.

I guess that would also explain why her peers are distancing themselves from her.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-11-05 08:22 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. Obviously, Judy herself is proof that the media has no immunity
from either a requirement to testify or from criminal prosecution,if that's what the US Attorney believes is needed to build his case.

If I were her managing editor, I would be very concerned that I would be subpoenaed if Fitz prosecutes Miller. As it is, she probably won't be indicted in exchange for the testimony she's already given implicating Scooter and others in WHIG.

Fitzgerald is after high Bush Administration officials involved in the destruction of the Plame's CIA counter-proliferation unit. All he has to do is nail one of the 21 officials involved with a felony (likely that will be violation of the Espionage Act) and the others who either planned or carried out or covered-up the crime will be hit with indictments for conspiracy. Anyone who lied is also facing felony perjury charges.

Bush may end up pardoning a lot of them, but either way that will be the end of his Presidency and of the Republicans as a majority party.

I think that's fair.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ptolle Donating Member (423 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-05 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #8
22. liberal rags & cet.
IMO the caricature of the NYT as a "liberal" publication is chiefly a product of the RW campaign to diminish all the media except, of course that which they either directly control or heavily influence-faux,clear channel- if you'll recall back to vietnam war days the NYT was one of the major enablers and cheerleaders for that misadventure. Again IMO it is not a liberal publication except in the badly skewed perspective of the RW and serves mainly as a whipping boy for them to trot out every time they wish to mildly inflame the true believers and reinforce their sense of persecution.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ClintonTyree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-11-05 08:01 AM
Response to Original message
9. They've already lost credibility......
as far as I'm concerned. That this bush whore is still on the payroll tells me all I need to know about the NYT. She's NOT a victim here, she's an active member of the cabal that outed an undercover CIA Agent. If the NYT is too ignorant, or more likely uncaring of that fact, then they've lost all journalistic credibility.
"The Newspaper of Record" is no longer the New York Times.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ChairmanAgnostic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-11-05 09:43 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. I suspect that same analysis exists within other papers and MSM
but they haven't the testicular fortitude to say it just yet.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Oilwellian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-11-05 09:55 AM
Response to Original message
13. Here's an interesting response from a DKos reader:
But the NYT ducking out while Time Mag was squeezed hard never rang true.

"The NYT was able to convince Fitzgerald and some skeptical judges that they didn't have anything. But Time Magazine was not so lucky. They were named in contempt of court and eventually--before Cooper testified--they gave up Cooper's notes to avoid punishment for contempt of court."

This was not the case, if the NYT did hand over copies of Miller's notes, when Fitzgerald came calling.

I've laid out my conjecture in a previous thread, and here it is.
-----------------------
The NYT's Outed Miller
A couple of things have always bothered me about this whole fiasco. One, why Miller was called to the grand jury without ever being published on the Plame matter. And two, why the NYT's ducked being squeezed, while Fitzgerald dropped the hammer on Time Magazine.
All I am left with is conjecture. If it unfolded thusly, these two anomalies suddenly fit, and also explain the latest misdirection concerning Miller's newly found notes.
It has been reported by people like Arianna Huffington, that the NYT's pending Miller mea culpa will be edited by this guy.

One promising sign is that, as Jay Rosen reports, the piece on Miller will be edited by deputy managing editor Jonathan Landman, who, a year before the Jayson Blair scandal broke, had written an e-mail warning: "We have to stop Jayson from writing for the Times. Right now."

Bear with me, and ask the question, would it have made sense for the NYT to have assigned Landman as Miller's personal handler/fact checker after they published their Blair sackcloth and ashes editorial in May 2003?
You bet it did.
If this is true, then Judy was handled by Landman starting around May 2003, prior to her taking notes about Plame.

I think the following happened.

All Miller's product is vetted by Landman after May 2003.
Landman spikes Miller's piece on Plame, keeping copies of her source material.
Fitzgerald ends up taking Time Magazine to court, but not, the NYT, because Landman simply handed over Miller's raw data at that time, without Miller's knowledge. It's more of Judy's neocon disinformation and he knows it. He is more likely to out sources like that, not protect them.
Miller thinks she has a choice; wrap herself in the first amendment to avoid revealing her collaboration with Libby et al in the Plame outing ( I wouldn't be surprised if Miller herself was Novak's original source, the one "without a partisan axe to grind") or come clean and go down the drain with the politicos she was flacking for.
Fitzgerald plays along, lets her sit, then gives Miller her limited sources proviso, because it doesn't matter. He even asks Luskin to get Libby to restate his source release to Miller.
Judy does her 15 minutes of first amendment fame, then testifies and perjures herself as proven by her notes that Fitzgerald has copies of already.
Fitzgerald drops the hammer on Judy about what he has known all along and, presto, she finds notes.

I think Fitzgerald has had these guys by the nuts since Landman or someone like him at the Times gave up Miller's work product, at around the time Cooper went to court. Anybody who has been before that grand jury, he played them, letting them lie themselves into a corner.
-------------------------

the NYT's printed
Their Blair retraction in May 2003.

They had Miller back in New York from Iraq within a month, they were looking at her hard concerning what she was submitting while imbedded with a WMD task force. Her last shot about WMD's was concerning the so called mobile chemical weapon's labs, and it was patent garbage.

She was under heavy attack by MSM types like Howard Kurtz and Joe Conason at the time. As soon as the Times purged Blair's enablers, who also were Miller's biggest boosters, it would not have been much of a leap for the editorial side to put the clamps on her.

If a so called source is using a so called reporter like Miller to plant disinformation instead of verify a story, that source is not a source, and they lose any expectation of journalistic shielding.

I think the NYT knew that they had been had on WMD's when they pulled Miller out of Iraq.
They couldn't admit it so soon after the Blair hit they took.
So they put Miller in a box. She never published about Plame, but she researched it. They spiked the non story and gave up her work product when Fitzgerald came calling.
It's the only explanation for the NYT's not being subpeonaed like Time Magazine was.
---------------------------

she put herself in jail

when she originally refused to testify. She wrapped herself in the first amendment and thought she could tough it out, because she was too stupid to realize the NYT had given up her work product.

All Fitzgerald wanted was to let her perjure herself by contradicting what the NYT managing editors gave him without a subpeona, which is what she had to do to cover her selling out to Cheney's neocon cabal, or come clean on her part in the outing of Plame to discredit Wilson.

Remember, Judy gladly whored for Cheney and the boys on WMD's. What would Fitzgerald care if she sat in jail, it makes his case better by putting the pressure on the same guys coming in to testify. He gives her limitation on testimony, too, which on the surface was weak, unless he already had her ass nailed to the wall.

I think Fitzgerald had Miller and whoever was feeding her disinformation, hanging on the cross, from the moment he asked the NYT's for source info, and they gave it up.

Is he that smart? Libby, Rove, all these guys parsing their testimony because they think that as long as Miller sits, Fitzgerald is in the dark?

I think he already had them.

He wasn't questioning them to get information, he was questioning them so they would commit perjury, and enhance conspiracy indictments with lies that amount to accessory after the fact.

"you can't beat them on the rink if you can't beat them in the alley"....Conn Smythe

by PeteyPuck on Sun Oct 09, 2005 at 07:59:55 PM PDT


http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/10/9/192555/974
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-11-05 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. Impressive. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Oilwellian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-11-05 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. I thought you might find that interesting
I'm glad you saw it. :hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
texpatriot2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-11-05 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. Nice assessment. They were on to her so Landman is used, he's
a patsy, the Times becomes the focus (or so they think/want) and the NYT goes on...free from blemish.

I read that Miller's main source Chalabi, at the time she was using him, had no credibility; many others knew it too, yet she continued to use him.

What is the NYT connection to the Pro-Israel piece of this puzzle?

I remember she was gladly their whore. Yes, Fitz is THAT SMART.
I think you are right that he had them to begin with.


Love the quote:
"you can't beat them on the rink if you can't beat them in the alley"....Conn Smythe
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
texpatriot2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-11-05 10:12 PM
Response to Original message
18. Will they cut her loose now? nm
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-05 09:13 PM
Response to Original message
20. It was an offer they couldn't refuse.
I'm sure the key people were offered far more than the NYT is worth to stick to the BFEE cover story. Look at all the indictments coming.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
maryallen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-05 09:23 PM
Response to Original message
21. The NYT is IN ON IT!!!
They know Judy is a propagandist from hell; that she promoted WMD's in numerous columns; that she sang Chalabi's (barf!) praises.

The only explanation I can see is the NYT wanted this war as badly as the Bush mafia and permitted the bullshit stories to promote the action.

Now, they're caught between "a rock and a hard place," particularly due to the sanctimonious response they took to the Jason Blair affair.

Where are the people of New York City on this one??
There are supposed to be a lot of liberals in the city ...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Phoebe Loosinhouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-05 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. I think that they have in fact lost all credibility except for their OP-ED
page. The rest is dead as a doornail. They need to fire a lot of poeple, starting with Judith Miller and then all the editors that went along so complicitly for the march to war. I have the NYT as my home page. I have made a ritual of buying the Sunday version for years. I suscribed to home delivery out here in the hinterlands. I have a NYT comforter that they sent me when I allowed auto-payment on my credit card.

Judith Miller is 500x worse than Jayson Blair altho it is essentially the same problem. "All the news fit to report"

How sad.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
texpatriot2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-05 07:44 AM
Response to Reply #21
25. I see them as connected too.n.t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri Apr 26th 2024, 08:39 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC