What should be done re: cops and beatings

[johnnie]

I saw the footage of the man being beat in New Orleans as have many of you. It is hard to watch but it's not the first time we have seen similar video.

Every time this happens people get pissed at how racist cops are, how they beat up the innocent people, cops this and cops that. So I would like to ask you what you think should be done to stop these beatings. It's one thing to bitch about the beatings, anyone can do that but I never hear any decent thoughts on what to do about it.

I will say that I would never become a cop. I have a certain respect for anyone who takes that job because they get little respect and little pay for the job they are hired to do. I know a lot of cops and they are great people, but they always seem to be spent.

So, any ideas out there? And by the way "throw the motherfuckers in prison" isn't much of an idea. I am talking about before the fact, not after.

[henslee]

1. Sick and sad as it is,this shit happens everywhere. Victim will get paid

and nothing will change.

[elehhhhna]

2. Jail time is suitable and would discourage some --

a cop in jail is an unhappy prisoner, fersure.

Envision living with guts you've helped convict. It ain't friendly.

[madmom]

3. Introduce them to Bubba ...

before they put the uniform on.

[BiggJawn]

4. Better psych testing?

Try to weed out the ones with "Robocop Syndrome"?

Maybe put the Prospects in a "situation" and push them till they snap?

"Sorry, if we wanted someone to exterminate our citizens, we'd hire the Crips. Good luck with your future career OUTSIDE of Law Enforcement..."

[Fleshdancer]

6. agreed....

we should be working harder to prevent this from happening in the first place.

[ohio_liberal]

14. So many of them go crazy "after" they're hired

I tell you, it changes a lot of them. They tell you when you join police forces to expect a change in your personality.

[BiggJawn]

24. Wonder why that is?

Is it the job itself? The training? Some kind of latency that doesn't surface until until you realize one day that you have a Badge and a Gun and SOME measure of authority to use both?

And yet I've known some guys who've been on the Force for years who are normal guys who don't have a replica of their badge tatted onto their scrots.
Takes all kinds, I guess....

[ohio_liberal]

29. It's the job

They're not all on the verge on beating the crap out of some guy on the street. But I think most cops experience a change in personality whether they know it or not. And some of them were just plain bad to begin with. Some of them-God it sounds awful but it's true-see for instance nothing but African American males getting busted and they get a mentality that black people are all bad or can't be trusted. Then some young punk gets smart with them and they beat the snot out of him in a pack. You see what I mean?

The psych testing can be a joke too, don't get me wrong. I know in Ohio some of the questions asked are like "Has your sex life ever gotten you in trouble?" or "Do you ever feel like hurting someone?". Who is going to answer yes to that?

The good cops can pick out the bad ones pretty easily. But they aren't in a position to do or say anything about it really.

[Berserker]

5. Well I think

"throw the motherfuckers in prison" is a good place to start. And while they are in prison or lets use the proper term "Correctional Facility" they can attend classes and get help in this wonderful system. Then after they get out I'm sure that the attitude they had when they were cops would have been corrected and they would be much better citizens. :puke:

[Dhalgren]

7. Well, there isn't much you can do to stop a person from

committing a crime. The assurance of swift trial and punishment may be the best we can do. We need to remember that when cops beat a citizen, it is a crime and should be punished. That being said, I suppose we could institute better screening for candidates to weed out the thugs; better training for officers on how to deal with the frustrations of the job; better pay and additional numbers. The thing is that we don't have a "cop problem", we have a "society problem". As long as there is a huge underclass of disadvantaged people in this society, we will have the kind of crime that gives birth to all of this shit...

[Tomee450]

30. But it's not only disadvantaged people

committing crimes. It's just that disadvantaged, mostly minorities who are arrested and convicted most often. I used to work with a woman whose son was always in trouble but she was well off and able to pay to keep him out of jail. The poor are not so lucky. Who gets arrested for drug use? It's mostly minorities yet most of the people who sell and take drugs are whites, many well off and living in upscale communities. Take prostitution for example. I used to pick up a relative from work late at night. We had to drive through the red light district and what did we see but cars of white men soliciting the prostitutes. Rarely did we hear of that area being raided although the soliciting was wide open and the police station nearby. So the poor often go to jail for crimes others get away with.

[Dhalgren]

38. But the "problem" of crime and of cop/citizen interaction is based

on the large disadvantaged underclass. In societies where there is smaller, non-institutionalized disadvantaged classes the cop/citizen relationships are less polar and less volatile. At least that's my take on it...

I am not saying that all criminals come from the oppressed underclasses, but part of the oppression of the underclasses is the criminalization of their lives and the trivializing of their existences. It is easy for a cop to beat a member of the underclass, because they aren't important; not valuable; not worthwhile...

[G_j]

8. Civilian review boards are very helpful

NO may have one by now, after all of it's famous corruption.
I heard it mentioned on Democracy Now! that two NO cops are on death row right now.

[Catfight]

9. Psychological test of people before we give them a gun and the

right to beat people because they feel powerful would be a start. The test should continue every year like a physical. Also, getting rid of that 'pac' or 'gang' mentality with officers would be a start as well. They are just an organized gang that don't question what it is they do, they just do. And if any officer is caught abusing a citizen or human, of course they should be 'thrown in prison,' and have a harsher sentence for malfeasance.

[ret5hd]

10. If somebody WANTS to be a cop...

they should be barred from being a cop.

[John Q. Citizen]

11. Leadership is usually a main factor. If the boss won't tolorate it,

then down the ranks people get the message.

Also, some way needs to be divised to at least partially interupt the tribe mentality that sets in. Manditory sabaticals every few years might help.

Personal responsibility for extra legal actions might be a deterant. If both the city and the cop is made to pay out, I bet it might stop some of the police instigated violence.

[DistressedAmerican]

12. CIVILIAN REVIEW BOARDS!!!!!!

No more police investigating themselves. Qualified citizens with no connection to the force should be deciding what constitutes abuse of authority not those accused in the first place.

It is so clear! IS THE NATION STUPID?

(After that throw their asses in jail)

[jaded_at_best]

13. it happens every day

they are in trouble for the simple reason that it was caught on tape.

A great number of cops are simply SCUM, not only in New Orleans but all over the US. And don't give me that bull crap that it's just a few bad apples.

[Tomee450]

32. Exactly, it's a lot

of bad apples. The police engage in brutal acts because they know they can get away with it. Their superiors and the union will back them up and if they are charged and brought to trial, jurors will more than likely acquit. What incentive is there for a bad cop to change when he knows he will never suffer any consequences for his action?.

Many people feel sorry for the police, believe that they have a dangerous job and are putting themselves on the line for the public. I suggest that many of those cops are out their because they love power. Furthermore, it's just a myth that the policemen's job is extremely dangerous. The facts don't support that belief. In fact, the policeman's job is not even listed in the top ten of the most dangerous occupations. More loggers, fishermen, pilots, steel workers , farmers,roofers, and taxi drivers die on the job than policemen.

[jaded_at_best]

41. great point

Several cops join the force solely because of their fantasies of power, they are usually impotent as citizens and need a power position to convince themselves. Several are also impotent sexually, therefore their obsessions with guns, anyone who knows basic psychology sees that.

[Mutley]

15. They need to be supervised more.

Some cop cars have those dashboard cameras and they not only help to document a suspects behavior, but it helps to document a cop's behavior. Those things ought to be installed at all angles off the car. A cop who knows he's being watched will likely choose NOT to beat someone down like that.

That along with better psych testing and better training should help.

I don't know if this case can be compared to the usual cases of police brutality. What those cops did was horribly wrong, yes, and they should be brought to justice, but would they have snapped like that if everything was business as usual in NO? If Katrina hadn't happened? Most of the NO cops have lost their homes, friends, and family members. They've seen some really fucked up stuff in the last month and a half. Their stress level has to be many times higher than the that of the average cop in this country. I'm not defending them, only saying that this case can't really be compared to other police brutality cases we've seen before.

I bring that up because the cops in question knew they were being taped but they chose to act the way they did anyway. That suggests a certian level of stress? Mental issues? That may not be present in a cop in NYC or Baltimore or L.A.

[johnnie]

16. I'm not defending them either

I don't know how much a person can take. I know that they had two of their officers commit suicide, and I don't know how many quit the force so I'm sure they are completely understaffed right now. Then again, there are a lot less people in New Orleans at this time.

I've been handled pretty bad by cops back in the day and almost got my ass whooped by one but fortunately the Sgt. on duty (who I knew) came in the room and stopped it after I was thrown into the wall. I was a smart ass but I didn't deserve to get thrown around. Even though I had a bad experience I also knew a lot of cops who were pretty cool.

I don't know what the statistics are, of course we only see these beatings when they get filmed and we don't see the times when a cop or cops are getting a lot of shit from someone and they handle it professionally and without beating the shit of the subject.

[Mutley]

17. I know you're not defending them...

I just realized that what I wrote could be read as a defense for those cops and I wanted to make it clear that that was not my intention before anyone jumped on me. :)

But you're right, there are many cops out there who are good people and would never do the things we've seen on the tape. I've never been arrested so I don't have the experiences you have, but my step-uncle-in-law (my stepmother's brother-in-law. LOL!) is a cop and I know he wouldn't do those things. Thats about the extent of my experience with cops.

[Tomee450]

33. So what if they were stressed.

A lot of jobs are dangerous and stressful, yet, if a stressed out husband went home and beat up his wife and children, no one would bring up his stress. There would be outrage and a demand that he be sent to jail. Some teachers in really bad schools are also stressed out. Do you think they could take out their frustrations on their co-workers or the students and get away with it? No one makes excuses for the stressed out postal workers who go ballistic and kill. There is no excuse for what those cops did to that man. We never allow other criminals to use the stress excuse; we certainly should not allow it to be used by people who have sworn to uphold the law.

[johnnie]

36. Huh?

Where did I say that they are stressed and it is ok? I was stating that I wasn't sure how much a person could take before they do something stupid.

It's like when a child goes into a school and blows away a bunch of kids because he was picked on a lot. The question is always raised about the poor kid and how he was bullied and no wonder why they snapped.

I wasn't sticking up for the cops and saying they were stressed. Or was your post not directed toward me?

[phillinweird247]

18. I think it takes a certain inadaquate personality type to....

Want to be a cop anyway. Small(inside) people who want to be better than everyone else

[zalinda]

19. I also replied to the other thread

but, cops have a very difficult job. My uncle was a cop, and he told me he saw the scum of the earth. Imagine seeing people at their worst almost all the time. How would your view of humanity change? Would you come to see people as little more than human? Imagine even going into the most innocent of situations and having a gun pulled on you. Add all that stress on to the job and I can see how a cop "turns" bad. Most of them won't talk to their spouses about their day because they don't want to bring that stuff into their personal lives, so they are stuck carrying around all these images of dehumanizing stuff that has happened on the job. They really should have to take anger management classes and attend group therapy sessions, just to get the crap they've seen out of their heads.

zalinda

[johnnie]

21. I understand that

It seems that a lot of people don't. One sad fact about all of this is that when a cop gets blown away on duty it might make the local news, but most people don't give a shit. How many cops get killed or wounded on duty each year? It is hard to tell because it isn't really reported.

[Berserker]

45. Something I don't understand

When a cop gets killed in the line of duty where I live there are hundreds of cop cars and a gigantic funeral. It's all over the news. Why are they so special that they deserve this treatment? I have to ask this because when a young person gets killed in the line of duty in a foreign land lets say IRAQ I don't see this on the news I don't see a line of cars miles long I don't see anything that comes close to a cops funeral. When you put on a cops uniform are you and instant hero I have to ask? I am not saying that cops don't deserve a good funeral but why are they so important and not the soldiers?

[KittyWampus]

25. Zalinda, that's a really understanding post. Cops are First Responders.

they've helped me out of various jams. I know some great guys& gals on the local police force. It's a small town here though.

Group sessions sounds about right.

[Tomee450]

34. But cops are not the only

people who have stressful jobs. Social Workers also see the scum of the earth, sometimes. That is no reason to take out your stress on the people you are sworn to serve. Cops sometimes beat up innocent people. If a cop gets too angry and stressful, he should get treatment or just quit. Why should he get away with engaging in police brutality against citizens, just because he is stressed out.

[zalinda]

40. Is there any where that I said that they should

get away with it? I said that there are 2 sides to a story. Social workers do not have to put their lives on the line every day. If a cop stops someone for a traffic violation, they could get shot. The uniform that they wear is like a target on their back. There is no other job like it. Soldiers know going into a situation that they are going to get shot at. Cops can go into a situation between a couple in their living room and can end up knifed. The amount of stress has to be unbelievable. They need help to get all the crap in their head out. Until we mandate some sort of therapy, we will always have cops who act out violently, whether it is against someone else or themselves. There is a reason that the divorce and suicide rates are high among cops. But, to say that all/many/most/large amount of cops are bad, does nothing to solve the problem.

And this is coming from someone who HAS been arrested and spent a night in jail.

zalinda

[Tomee450]

42. There are no

two sides in a story like this. The police are not to take out their frustrations on citizens. If the job gets to much for them, they should seek treatment or just quit. The job of a social worker can be just as dangerous as that of a policemen. They have to go into dysfunctional households in bad neighborhoods. They often have to take children away from angry parents and at that point their lives could be in jeopardy. This society does not give anyone a pass for being stressful. Stress cannot be used to justify the beating of unarmed individuals who pose no threat. Also, the policemen's job is far less dangerous than many other jobs. A taxi driver is more likely to be killed than a policeman.

[sweetheart]

20. End the drugs war

end 85% of the cause of violent crime, the prisons filled with mostly
black men, the criminalization and jim crow basis for racial
disenfranchisement.

Then with all the savings, cut back on the need for police mobsters
with the peace dividend building new schools and community centers
in urban areas for teenagers to have something to "do" with their
time, backing away from the need for a police state, by stepping
forward strongly in re-taking the public common for decent folk.

[Spangle]

22. The need more time OFF

A reality check. And I don't mean that they can put on their uniforms and do crowd control, etc. I mean OFF THE STREETS.

Not just the ones that flip out. These guys should be rotated so that they can get some "real" world time.

It's hard mentaly being a police officer. They deal with the lowest of the low. And they see them back out the next day. It's a real pisser. They gota be thinking "I'm putting my LIFE on the line for WHAT?" I'm sure it's hard to forget that not all that they deal with are scum. That is why I say they should be rotated.

Another thing. The way the situation is handled is setting up for a beating. Rush tatic, with the expection of instant response. If the person isn't quick enough to respone, they are seen as resisting and force is allowed to "subdue" them. Hmmmm... Basicly, a nasty situation is created and force is used. It is human nature to respond when we are jumped out of the blue, hence, you going to get more "resisting arrests." Questioning the cops is a "no-no." Being totaly flabber gassed at the thought that they bare being accused of something.. NO, not allowed.

Americans are not use to the fact of the "state" as it is now. If approched by an officer, there is no question and answer time. Now days, it's expected to be dealt with "down town" and could take days. Even if your innocent, it's expected that loosig the TIME it takes to "straighten things out down town" is the price you should give without complaint. People don't understnad that. And they really should be TOLD.

[KittyWampus]

27. So many suggestions so far are punitive. Time off sounds helpful.

how about also rotating time walking a beat in neighborhood.

Honestly, having cops just walking store to store meeting shop owners and such might help along with meeting with community reps.

[Romulus]

28. good point

my brother is a police officer, and he works four 10-hour days a week! That's too much, if you ask me.

Plus, he may have to stay late if he has paperwork, etc.

[HamdenRice]

23. Personal financial liability

Police unions may not have bargained for the pay and benefits that many think cops should have, but they have been very successful at bargaining for ridiculous levels of excused liability. Here in NYC, for example, a cop accused of brutality has (or used to have) something like 48 hours before they even have to show up for an investigation.

Most important, the city picks up the tab for any eventual civil lawsuit judgment. This is a license for bad behavior, because the cop who misbehaves suffers no personal financial loss. It's like having the ability to spend someone else's (the taxpayers') money.

Police who misbehave in ways that are beyond their authorized jobs -- beating up people for no reason is not part of a cop's job -- should not have the judgments against them reimbursed by the city.

If a cop believed that he was gambling with his house, his kid's college tuition fund and every dime of his future earnings every time he misbehaved, I am sure far fewer cops would act beyond their legal autority.

I believe the same should apply to district attorneys. If a da puts someone away knowingly using false evidence, he should be personally liable with no possibility of his judgment being picked up by the city, to the wrongfully imprisoned person.

[Skidmore]

26. They need to be punished in the same way as the citizen

who commits aggravated assault does. Why not throw them into prison. It is acceptable for the average citizen to be thrown into prison. Any police chief who allows such a culture in his force to exist should be punished too.

[lpbk2713]

31. Start off with an IQ test of all the NOPD officers.

It was bad enough that several of them beat an old man senseless and left him in a pool of his own blood but they really showed their level of intelligence when they went after the photog crew with the cameras running.

NOPD ---- here's your sign ............

[Sparkle]

35. Have one of their loved ones beat up by their comrades.

Call it a "Scared Straight" program.

[johnnie]

37. Why would you want someone beating up their comrades?

I said before the fact, not after they beat someone. Does anyone read any longer?

[msmcghee]

39. The problem lies with the laws they are asked to enforce.

Most law enforcement since the sixties has been focused on the war on drugs. These are laws that put people in jail, confiscate their property and ruin their lives - for doing something that hurts no-one else directly - and very few others even indirectly.

IMO decent good people stopped seeing law enforcement as an honorable career by the mid-eighties as huge amounts of drug money corrupted police forces everywhere.

There were many good cops that joined before then - and some of them are still on the force. But they are retiring or quitting and soon it will be all assholes - all the time.

When society criminalizes behavior like drug use, (abortion), prostitution and pornography (behavior that some people don't like but behavior that does not harm others) in a society that claims to honor personal rights, privacy and freedom of conscience - it creates huge problems that will eventually destroy that society.

The fundies will get their way - but they will tear the heart out of our nation before it's done.

[nadinbrzezinski]

43. many steps are missied

1.- Pssych eval, a candidate that does not pass one, does not get on the force, period

2.- Debriefing after critical incidents, this is the principal cause for cops to build up anger, bad incident debriefing.

3.- When officers do fall by the cracks and anger is detected, they should be refered to the department psycologist

4.- Lets face it sometimes any and all of these steps fail... harsh discipline is the only way to

[bluedawg12]

44. I saw that video many times and evey time

I get angrier.

4 guys beating ths sh*t out of a 61 year old man?

One guy strangle holding the neck the other twisting his knee?

Punching him 4 times and hitting the head against the wall.

This isn't about police officers.

This isn't about the stress they endure or the work they do.

This is about unprofessional conduct- if the cops on the street are percieved as no more than out of control thugs law and order becomes meaningless.

Those men in uniform shamed their fellow police officers in the nation.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

46. Force every cop to carry a video camera and film themselves?

This would mean that while on duty, every single conversation, every action, every snitch they interrogate, every bust they make, everything would be caught on film. Other jobs, stationary ones involve the constant surveillance by video cameras. I don't know if we have the technology yet to design miniaturized equipment that every cop could easily wear, but this might eventually be a deterrent. I'm not saying I like this solution, but it might ferret out racist or emotionally unstable cops by examining how they act and what they say day in and day out.

[nadinbrzezinski]

47. Many departments have cameras on cars

and that has REDUCED not eliminated, REDUCED this problem and it is a problem.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

49. I'm talking about personal cameras worn on the officers

and taping everything that goes on inside and outside the police car. In other words, every single event of a cop's day on duty would be available for review. That's very intrusive, I know, but I think it might weed out the bad apples.

[bluedawg12]

48. There was so much out of control rage they turned on the media

guy with the camera crew.