"It's the social values, stupid!" What today's Republican believes

[Ishoutandscream2]

It is funny how some of the most intelligent people you know can be so, well, uninformed.

Today I was talking with a good friend of mine at work. We were discussing politics, and he said, "Do you know what the problem is with the Democrats?" I answered something to the effect that we had a problem with cohesion and that we needed to work more on our message. Plus the fact that we needed to fight back.

He said no. The problem is "social values." I said to please not mention abortion. He said he didn't mean that, because it was already "in the books." I tried to get him to specify, and I knew where he was going. Yep, you guessed it, gay marriage.

I mentioned that not all Democrats were for gay marriage, including our last presidential candidate. Besides, I said, it is really such a non-issue with all of the problems we face in this country.

He stated that "You know, over 50 percent of Americans are against it. And the perception is that the Democratic party supports it." He further stated that he votes first on social issues, and many more are like him. With that, I had to say something like, "John, you would vote social issues over your pocketbook. What if you had no job, and your kids were hungry" etc. etc. Which brought up, you guessed it, welfare!

John mentioned the so called debit cards that New Orleans residents were getting. He also mentioned the same old welfare urban legends. I asked him what about corporate welfare, and what he thought about the rich getting richer and the poor poorer. He said it was always that way. I said "Wrong, in the 90's we had a more equitable tax system. The rich were getting richer, but the poor and the middle class were moving up."

Then I asked him if the minimum wage was moral. Why do the Republicans always have to be against it? Surely, John said, in our community people will get jobs for more than 5.15. I said you're probably right, but even making 7 or 8 dollars an hour isn't going to get you much. And guess what that does? It puts more people on those so called welfare roles when they have to apply for food stamps and govt. housing.

We were wrapping up when I mentioned corporate welfare. Well, that's good, he said, because it brings in jobs. This was the guy who previously had told me that welfare and minimum wage were "socialistic" and yet he believes in nice tax breaks for the already well off sector of our nation. We were butting heads, but at least our conversation was amicable.

This is what I face everyday here in North Texas. I still believe the 39 % of Bush's support is right here in my community. The people here still vote on what they call "social values" even though foreclosures are up, good paying jobs are scarce, and gas prices are ridiculous. Even the war in Iraq doesn't seem to faze them; not too many of our young people in our community are having to serve because of economic hardships, etc.

So, do you want to be without a job and home, or vote to keep gays from getting married? Here, anyway, it looks like the later.

[ThatsMyBarack]

1. So-called "values"

HATE is NOT a moral/social/family value!!!!! :kick: :dunce:

[bunkerbuster1]

2. they just LOVES them some debit cards, don't they?

I've heard more about the mother fucking debit cards in the past two months than I've heard about our suck-ass healthcare delivery system in the past two years.

What nutballs we nurture in this nation.

[Ishoutandscream2]

7. Yes, isn't it amazing?

I guess they're not paying attention to all the breaks the energy companies are getting from our govt.

Oh well, "let them eat cake."

[BOSSHOG]

3. Where in the Constitution does it say Gays

cannot marry? The problem with conservatives is they want to legislate other people's morality instead of tending to their own. Why the high number of divorces amongst christian conservatives? Throw in the incest rate and spouse abuse rate and teen pregnancy rates in conservative families and a skeptical son of a bitch like me would think morons like your acquaintance wants to use gay marriage as a cover for their own failures. Yo conservative scum, clean your own house and I'll tend to mine, unless of course you want me to start legislating how you should live your life. Please share this veterans thoughts with your friend. I didn't spend 24 years in uniform supporting and defending the bible.

[Ishoutandscream2]

6. Boss, my friends here need to meet you

They think we liberals are all a bunch of military hating anti-Americans. Of course, these people I know never served, and coming from someone like you who has experienced war would really put them in their place.

Like I said, our conversation was amicable. But John, deep down, is unfortunately a Fundy of the worst kind who seems to look down on the poor and at others who "are out of the mainstream."

[papau]

4. I've had similiar conversations outside of N. Texas - really! The gay

marriage wedge issue is used in all discussions by the RW GOP.

Civil rights for gays can not be dropped by the Democratic Party - but going near "gay marriage" is a kiss of death to support that would otherwise vote our way.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

5. Gay marriage

what an amazing non-issue. But Republicans love it.

Who does it really effect? Who does it hurt?

I just don't get it.

[merbex]

11. Here in MA since gay marriage has become legal most people

recognize that the sky has not fallen and that the earth keeps spinning on its axis - my mother lives in senior housing and she has told me how many of those in the complex have had conversations about gay marriage in the year following the legalization of gay marriage

Seniors,usually the most conservative among any population,are ok with the reality which is Massachusetts today

[bunkerbuster1]

15. Seniors understand the pragmatic value of marriage better than most.

For instance, older folks sometimes elect not to marry because of a potential loss of income from to (say) a deceased spouse's pension.

So I'm not real suprised that the older folks in the nation's Smartest State (per http://www.morganquitno.com/edrank.htm ) would feel this way.

[Ishoutandscream2]

17. Well, you are also the most educated state in our country

at least that's what I have seen in the past. Education really is important in fighting bigotry. I have to give my props to Mass. because of its open-mindedness.

[HughBeaumont]

12. I don't get it either.

Last I checked, sexual preference has little to do with the governing of a nation.

I really don't see who it hurts either. Maybe bible ultra-literalists. But didn't King James himself have 3 male lovers, kind of making him the 16th century version of self-loathing David Dreier?

[Frances]

8. Thanks for this post

Isn't it interesting how the MSM focuses on the "sins" of the victims in New Orleans?

And how little attention the MSM pays to the corruption and cronyism of the Bush administration in the rebuilding efforts?

Ask your friend how he feels about the reconstruction jobs going to a Halliburton subsidiary on no-bid contracts with no oversight. Ask him how he feels about Halliburton hiring illegal immigrants to do the work. Is this how he wants his tax dollars wasted?

Now the Republicans are both outsourcing good jobs to India and hiring illegal immigrants to do bad jobs in the U.S. How long will it be before his job is in jeopardy?

[flamin lib]

9. I'm with you ishout.

My younger brother and I have become quite close in the last year. He's an avid Bush supporter but wavering (Katrina did it for him).

He says he likes Bush because you know where he stands and he's resolute. I asked him if being resolute in Iraq was working for him and said no. He still supports going into Iraq but when I ask him why he can't find a reason, just believes it was a good idea.

On the other hand he's so bent out of shape over Katrina. I told him that 80% of the contracts were no bid and were awarded to out of state contractors. He got angry over that one. Then I told him of a contract for temporary housing let to Alaska when there was a Mississippi contractor with 200 completed units sitting on the ground who didn't get to bid and he got visibly pissed off.

Still, it's the gay marriage thing and knowing where Bush stands--even if he's wrong most of the time, you know where he stands.

Go figure . . .

[MN ChimpH8R]

10. When Brown v. Board came down

from the SCOTUS, I am sure that more than 50% of the population thought it was wrong. That didn't mean that the Court did not make the right decision.

The very purpose of a Constitution is to put some things beyond majority vote, especially when the subject is basic human rights.

I tire of these asshats, Falstaff. :eyes:

[LynneSin]

13. They believe a tweaking crankhead is a hero because she reads the bible

and shares it (along with her Meth stash) to the guy holding her hostage.

[CANDO]

14. Really love their economic responses.

The minimum wage issue is so mind numbingly absurd when they say things such as, "well, if we give them a raise it will make everything more expensive for all of us". And my favorite response to that is, "so how much is it costing the rest of us when you get your pay raises"? Or, "so how much is it costing the rest of us since last year executive pay was up by 54%"? They seem to think that the only people who affect the cost of goods and services are the people who earn minimum wage. All they really ever do is spout the usual shit they hear from Gush Limpjaw day in and day out.

[Ishoutandscream2]

16. Excellent response!!

I will have to use that - "well, you got a raise. How much is that costing the rest of us?" Damn good line.

[4_TN_TITANS]

18. Social values my ASS....

Forget the propaganda - which party claims to have social values and which party acts on it? Who Would Jesus Bomb? Your friend is being deceived by believing he and those he votes for are on some admirable moral pedestal, looking down on us heathens.

As an atheist, I do more to help the poor than most Christians I know. They don't want to get "dirty" by associating with that kind of people.

Don't waste your time on that moran.....

[kweerwolf]

19. Perhaps these are the "family values" he wants to uphold ...

Law enforcement officials said Saturday they are investigating complaints that Louis Beres, longtime chairman of the Christian Coalition of Oregon, molested three female family members when they were pre-teens.

"There is an investigation of allegations that have been made," Multnomah County District Attorney Michael Schrunk said Saturday.

The Oregonian talked to three of Beres' female relatives, including two who told reporters that he molested them. All three said they have been interviewed for several hours by detectives.

"I was molested," said one of the women, now in her early 50s. "I was victimized, and I've suffered all my life for it. I'm still afraid to be in the same room with (Beres)."

http://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/news/112885559554010.xml&coll=7

[Ishoutandscream2]

21. Aw, good ol' Repuke family values

Do as I say, not as I do!

[Brewman_Jax]

20. Social values?

since John thinks the republicans are all for "social values," maybe he can explain why all of these "upstanding" republicans are answering molestation charges? http://www.radionewsamerica.com/index.php?blog=3&p=1922&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1

Supply-side (trickle down) economics has been denounced for decades (you can google at your convenience). I've never heard a good answer of how gay marriage affects straight marriages, or how corporations not paying taxes is good for the economy, or how Bush* has actually helped anyone in the below $250K/yr income category. :shrug:

Maybe you could ask John when you talk again. I've pressed my republican "friends," and the conversation changes to, "How 'bout that home team? Can't they get their act together?"