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nixonwasbetterthanW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-11-05 08:02 PM
Original message
News Orgs Working On Story Tying Cheney Into Plamegate

The Wall Street Journal and Bloomberg are working on stories that point to Vice President Dick Cheney as the target of special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald's investigation into the leaking of CIA operative Valerie Plame's name.


<http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2005/10/11/news-orgs-working-on-stor_n_8705.html>
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54anickel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-11-05 08:04 PM
Response to Original message
1. W$J?!?? no way!...n/t
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Julius Civitatus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-11-05 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #1
13. Yup. Don't confuse the WSJ with the WSJ's Editorial Board
Seriously!

The Wall Street Journal is the most schizophrenic publication that there is. It could actually be described as two different publications under the same name.

On one hand you have the WSJ reporters, very qualified, very professional, and usually quite reliable in their reporting.

On the other hand you have the WSJ Editorial Board, basically a tree-house of uber-elitist fascists led by Paul Gigot. Some of the most biased, inaccurate, and rabidly fascistic rhetoric in America is provided by the editorial board of the WSJ.

So, in a nutshell, that's why the WSJ (the reporting side, that is) can actually follow a real news lead that this.
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goforit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-11-05 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #13
23. Even so, this is a daring printing for them.
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NNadir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-05 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #13
75. Yeah. It's completely strange, but I've seen some WSJ stories
that almost seem to have a liberal spin.

At the end of the day, the WSJ is about making money. Although fraud and deceit are a big part of the US economy right now, sometimes a sense of reality is essential in money making, and at the Journal, money trumps everything even ideology.

That's completely different than the raison d'etre of Fox.
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Richard D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-11-05 08:10 PM
Response to Original message
2. and the walls come tumblin down
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berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-11-05 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. Say it right, with a DEEP SINGING VOICE:
And The WALLS, Come Tumb-LE-IN, DOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWNNNNNNNNNNN!
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Richard D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-11-05 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #8
29. Ohhhhhh yeahhhhhhhhhhh!
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goforit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-05 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #2
73. kick
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Catch22Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-11-05 08:14 PM
Response to Original message
3. No way!
I'll believe it when I see it.
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Auntie Bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-11-05 08:14 PM
Response to Original message
4. The only thing that could make me happier would be to tie it to
bush* himself. I'm sure he was in the loop. Unless bush* gave Rove or Cheney carte blanch to do anything they wanted if the ends justified the means...just done tell him so he could keep his lily white hands and black soul clean.
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lancdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-11-05 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. I wouldn't be surprised if Fitzgerald does just that
I seriously doubt he would implicate Cheney and leave Bush completely out of it.
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goforit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-11-05 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #4
24. Well, quite frankly, I do hope bush gets caught, then he can't pardon.
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antonialee839 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-05 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #4
31. I believe it was *'s idea, he's such
a vindictive little sh*t.
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-05 08:14 AM
Response to Reply #4
45. This would actually be better
If you pull Cheney and Rove away, the widdle, widdle man with the big Texas swagger fall down, go boom. Humiliated before being kicked out on his ass.


Nice..................:evilgrin:
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Auntie Bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-05 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #45
49. You painted such a nice picture ...it'll put a smile of my face for the
rest of the day. It's already started...with Cheney on "vacation" spending millions and Rove "busy" and unavailable for advice during Katrina...look how he already fell off his bicycle. Next time he is going to crash into a cement wall or off a cliff. Hope it's the latter!
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Im_Your_Huckleberry Donating Member (160 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-11-05 08:14 PM
Response to Original message
5. cool.
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democrank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-11-05 08:36 PM
Response to Original message
6. When they get through tying
Cheney to Plamegate, they should tie Bush to Cheney, wrap a few cords around Rove, add on Rumsfeld and throw the whole damn mess in the Potomac.
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woodsprite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-11-05 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #6
19. Oooooh yeah! With the snakeheads in there. n/t
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-11-05 08:38 PM
Response to Original message
7. OMFG!!!
:rofl:

I doubt this qualifies as LBN,...BUT,...makes me feel good *LOL*.
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Elidor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-11-05 08:54 PM
Response to Original message
9. All I want for Christmas
Is Cheney impeached.
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Auntie Bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-05 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #9
50. All I want for Xmas is Cheney* and BUSH* in jail with a sodomist
as a cell mate! A joy to behold!
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vogonity Donating Member (283 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-11-05 09:03 PM
Response to Original message
10. Must. Stop. Eating. Popcorn. (nt)
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UpInArms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-11-05 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. move over, I'm bringing the popcorn machine
:popcorn:

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ret5hd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-11-05 09:06 PM
Response to Original message
12. THE ASPEN ARE TURNING!!! (nt)
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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-11-05 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. the Skulls & Bones & Krypts are intertwined
Below the scummy surface
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goforit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-11-05 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #14
26. yes this incestual group are scrambling.
They must have no idea that people have been watching
their every move for years.
And so have their secret societies.
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Lerkfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-11-05 09:20 PM
Response to Original message
16. I'm starting to get a little concerned that someone will be "suicided".
or martial law declared...whichever comes first.

These evil, murderous bastards are getting cornered. I shudder to think what they will do THEN.

My heavenly dream scenario (not likely but I can dream)
is Rove getting ready to be fried, but he squeals like the pig he is and tells fitzgerald:
"if you grant me immunity, I'll spill the beans on how we planned and executed 9/11"

a guy can dream.
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GliderGuider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-11-05 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. David Kelly already was...
Edited on Tue Oct-11-05 09:31 PM by GliderGuider
The target of this whole thing was never Joe Wilson. He was just a lever. The target was Brewster Jennings, because they were probably close to uncovering a plan to plant WMD in Iraq as a "throwdown piece" to justify the invasion.

David Kelly found out about it, was threatening to blow the whistle, and they slashed his wrist. Did you know his last email was to Judith Miller, and talked about "dark actors playing games"?

The whole thing has been done to cover up a plan hatched by the OSP to plant nukes in Iraq for Judith Miller to "find". Kelly's threatened leak put the kibosh the plan and put the coverup in motion. Brewster Jennings was probably on the threshold of figuring it out, so they had to be shut down.

Requiescat in pace, David Kelly.
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keopeli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-11-05 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. You definitely get it, GlideRider. Good job!
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CantGetFooledAgain Donating Member (635 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-11-05 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #18
27. Interesting theory, almost too good to actually be true...
Any sources on this that you can share? I'm not disparaging the theory but I would like to know more about what it is based upon.
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GliderGuider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-05 05:53 AM
Response to Reply #27
38. I've been nagged by Kelly's death ever since it hapened
Edited on Wed Oct-12-05 06:07 AM by GliderGuider
I knew it was murder but I could never figure out where it fit. Here's a description of the inquiry that made my hackles rise: http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/101403_kelly_1.html

The speculation at the time about motive was all over the map, but this idea at least has the virtue of simplicity. The realization that Brewster Jennings was the real target of the outing was the key, at least for me.
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EuroObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-05 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #38
78. Ah, from the Jim Rarey archive.
Here: http://www.worldnewsstand.net/MediumRare/Archives.htm

Does anyone know what's happened to him since December 15th 2004 (date of last article I can find)?
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-05 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #27
57. Remember what Plame's job was with the CIA?
Investigating WMD proliferation around the world.
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aint_no_life_nowhere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-05 01:04 AM
Response to Reply #18
32. What about the "suicide" of John J. Kokal?
On November 7, 2003, State Department Bureau of Intelligence and Research Chief Iraqi Analyst John J. Kokal supposedly committed suicide by jumping head first to his death from the secured roof of the State Department's headquarters. Any chance of that tying in or was that actually a suicide? I don't think I ever heard about any investigation being conducted into the death.
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GliderGuider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-05 05:46 AM
Response to Reply #32
36. The timeline is right, isn't it?
There may not be enough facts in the public domain to tie that one in, but it sure doesn't pass the sniff test, does it?
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Burried News Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-05 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #32
85. John Kokal - truly burried news.
Jumped from a Federal Building without his shoes. Wonder what Bolton knows about it?
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-05 02:38 AM
Response to Reply #18
33. It's not that they aren't capable of murder, but there's one thing that
Edited on Wed Oct-12-05 02:48 AM by leveymg
doesn't quite add up about this. You're assuming that a WMD dirty-tricks operation of this sort would be approved by the Joint Chiefs of Staff -- all of them, and if it was, that their staff people would also sign off on it, and that everyone would keep their mouths shut about it.

There's little chance of that ever happening.

The fact that the Fitzgerald investigation has been allowed to proceed is evidence to the contrary, I believe. The very top uniformed military and career intelligence people know that BushCo and the neocons betrayed the country, and needlessly killed thousands of American troops, and have badly compromised U.S. national security.

The powers that be extract a severe penalty against conspirators for acts of treason. Some things are just bigger than the Presidency.
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GliderGuider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-05 06:10 AM
Response to Reply #33
41. This would not have been known to the JCS
It has the earmarks of a closely held, personally directed operation coming out of the Office of Special Plans (nice name, eh?). In other words, it was a probably Feith/Libby operation, with the rest of the neocon circle kept at a distance for security.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-05 07:30 AM
Response to Reply #33
42. Leveymg, while I agree that the U.S. military and the U.S. intelligence...
...community likely have extremely serious grievances against the Bush regime (most of which we all share), I wouldn't so easily dismiss the theory of a Bush Cartel black op to "plant" WMDs in Iraq. I've worked on this theory quite a bit, and have done a lot of thinking about it, and it seems to hold up rather well, especially when it comes to some of the mysteries around Treasongate (like, why did they do it, I mean why really--why put so many top Bushites at great risk of treason charges--just to punish an ex-diplomat for a dissenting article? Or, what was all that Niger business about, the forgeries, the Wilson trip, the Niger allegation getting into Bush's SOTU? Or, what was Judith Miller's role as Rumsfeld's "embed" in the "hunt" for WMDs in Iraq that they all knew weren't there?).

And I am not at all sure that the Joint Chiefs would have been told about it. Think of the various ways that Cheney and Rumsfeld have done end runs around normal channels of information and chains of command; their purges of independent thinkers, and favoritism toward yes men; their manipulation of information, their excessive secrecy, and so on. They are also closely tied into, and favor, private corporate/military interests, the use of mercenaries, and rogue military operations (think, Iran-Contra, and covert arms and drug dealing).

As a matter of fact, it is precisely because a group like the Joint Chiefs would likely veto such an extra-legal and very high risk black op, done purely for political considerations, that Rumsfeld, Cheney, Libby and the rest developed their own ad hoc intel and command structures.

The whole war has that extra-legal, ad hoc, unprofessional, ill considered feel to it: a completely trumped up war against the advice of a lot of top military and intelligence professionals, with the real purposes of the war being covert: getting private Bush Cartel control of the oil fields and creating Roman Empire II, and shoveling billions and billions of dollars into the pockets of Bush/Cheney buds in private war-related corporations (the latter probably the chief purpose, in my opinion--greed). The war in truth had nothing to do with defending the U.S. against "terrorists" or any other threat; and in fact is very counterproductive on security, and ruinous for the military in many ways, not the least of which are the violations of the UCMJ, with the detention and torture policy. And the war that military commanders had to sell to the troops was a war for freedom --a total and complete lie.

So, a plot to plant WMDs in Iraq fits right into this entire facade of lies and manipulation, in a war run by thieves and traitors.

A plot to plant WMDs in Iraq completes the arc of Treasongate. It provides the REASON for Treasongate, by relating it to what was happening in Iraq and also in Britain. Here it is:

The neocon criminals (Cheney, Rumsfeld, et al)--the cabal--set up Joe Wilson, with a wild goose chase trip to Niger, based on forged documents (the cabal all knew there were no nukes there), with the intention of discrediting the CIA, when the nukes that the cabal were intending to "plant" in Iraq were "found" by Judith Miller (who was running around Iraq with the U.S. troops hunting for WMDs that the cabal also knew weren't there, on a special "embed contract signed by Donald Rumsfeld himself). This "find" of planted WMDs would not only transform the political landscape, "proving" the war was justified, it would also "prove" that the CIA was wrong, uninformed, foolish and a danger to world peace, in its disbelief in Iraq nukes and opposition to the Iraq war.

That is part one of the theory: There was a long term plan to discredit the CIA, of which planting WMDs in Iraq was a component.

Someone foiled this plot (prevented the nukes from being planted.) There were two credible-sounding news reports out of Iran and Pakistan in March 2003, to this effect: that a covert U.S. effort to plant phony WMD evidence had been spotted in one place (Basra) and had met with "friendly fire" in another.

David Kelly, the Brits' chief WMD expert--who was an old hand at Iraq WMDs, an excellent scientist and legendary tough guy, with friends and contacts in Iraq--got word of these reports, investigated, and thus kicked over this Bush Cartel plot. It angered him (he was an honest guy), and prompted his anonymous whistleblowing to the BBC starting in late May 2003. (He had wanted Saddam ousted; why would he then take action to undermine the war politically, after the fact? He needs a motivator, and this fits him to a tee. He hated deceit.)

The Blairites panicked. They hunted him down within the government (this became big news in England at the time); he was mysteriously outed to his bosses (see Judith Miller paragraph, below*), and then wrote them a letter saying it was him. They interrogated him for days in a "safe house," threatened him with prosecution, outed his name to the press, and sent him home without protection. (They also viciously attacked the BBC.)

And here, the Plame/Kelly dates get interesting. The Kelly outing occurred right about the time that Judith Miller was first meeting with Scooter Libby about Plame's identity--late June. Their plot to plant WMDs in Iraq had been foiled (possibly more than once). They were not sure who was foiling them. They likely were still hoping to achieve it. And Judith Miller was intending to write the article on Wilson, outing Plame (BEFORE Wilson published his article on the Niger lie)--that's what her June 23 notes are about--because that was the plot, in essence: get Wilson to commit in public, disclose his ties to the CIA, "find" the planted nukes, and make the CIA into fools, never to be trusted again. (The cabal would then have a free hand for purging the CIA.) This long term plot, of course, goes back to the Niger forgeries and how/why the disproved Niger allegation got into Bush's SOTU speech. It was put there as bait.

Wilson said in an interview that he had called Condi Rice (circa spring '03) to get the regime to back off of the Niger allegation, and she told him, through intermediaries, that she was not interested in his information, but, if he was so concerned about the matter, why didn't he publish it?

Sure sounds like she was baiting him. In any case, they knew Wilson's article was coming. It was not a surprise. Rice knew about it. Miller was prepping to answer it--which makes their next actions (the hasty and foolish riskiness with which they outed Plame) hard to figure, unless it is connected to Kelly.

(*Note on Judith Miller: Her first meeting with Libby coincides with the time period in which Kelly was mysteriously outed to his bosses. Late June. He says a friend told him that his bosses had learned he was the BBC whistleblower--or he heard it on the grapevine. Some such statement. He had been corresponding with Miller. They were colleagues. She had used him as a major quoted source in her book, "Germs." And it was to Miller that Kelly wrote his last email, on the day he died--later released by his family, not by Miller--warning of the "many dark actors playing games." The bitter irony may be that this colleague whom he apparently still trusted may have been one of the "dark actors," perhaps the one who outed him. She was certainly being a "dark actor" to Plame and her covert CIA network, at the very same moment.)

On July 7, 2003, according to the Hutton report, Tony Blair was informed that David Kelly "could say some uncomfortable things." Not HAD said. COULD say. So, he knew something more than he had been whistleblowing to the BBC about (the "sexed up" intel). At a later date, Kelly said he promised them he wasn't going to reveal any "state secrets." So, presumably he knew some. Also, given the highly suspicious circumstances of Kelly's death, we have to consider what he might have known that could have gotten him killed. All in all, I think a Bush Cartel plot to plant WMDs in Iraq is a pretty good guess. Among other things, it explains why the Blairites were so freaked out about him. "Sexed up" intel--a controversy about words and emphasis--seems insufficient reason for how everyone behaved.

Another argument in favor of the WMD plot is the way both the Bushites and the Blairites primed the public to expect a find of WMDs, and this set up with Judith Miller so eagerly desiring "the scoop" and pumping up everyone's expectations. Were they all just sitting around HOPING she would find some? Not likely. And, of course, both Bush and Blair were probably COUNTING ON that false evidence for their political fortunes.

Blair was informed about what Kelly knew; and called AF-1, and warned them. This is what I think triggered the foolish, panicky Plame outing--with the Bushites contacting at least SIX reporters (six journalist witnesses to treason), circulating the Plame memo on AF-1 for many eyes to see, and putting numerous top Bushites at great risk of treason charges. The two events--the Kelly whisteblowing/outing, and the Wilson/Plame story--intersected on July 7, with the Blair warning. The next day, on July 8, the Plame memo (probably prepared for the original plot) gets taken onto AF-1, and Miller meets again with Libby that day, and talks to him on the phone on July 12. Their whole scene is basically falling apart, and they are scrambling to pick up the pieces. No WMDs in Iraq. And they are now threatened with exposure that they tried to plant them. They don't know who knows, how far it's gone, or when/where revelation might come. And they probably have strong suspicions, or some evidence, that it was Plame/BJ/CIA who had foiled them.

Plame was outed a week later, on July 14 (by Novak). Four days later, on July 18, Kelly was found dead, near his home, on the route of his normal afternoon walk, under a tree, with one slit wrist, and some painkillers scattered around, apparently having bled to death all night out in the cold and the rain. (Hardly a scientific way to kill yourself--but I won't go into that evidence. Suffice it to say, I'm 99% certain he was killed in a staged suicide, and so are a lot of other people.)

His office and computers were searched. And four days after that, the entire CIA WMD monitoring program (Brewster/Jennings) was outed (also by Novak), disabling all projects and putting all covert agents and contacts at risk of death. (I don't know why Miller didn't write the article outing Plame. Perhaps she'd taken on enough risks already with Kelly, and everything else.)

Presumably--if this theory is anywhere near correct--they found something in Kelly's computers that confirmed Plame/BJ/CIA involvement in foiling their dirty rotten scheme, which made Plame/BJ/CIA not just a hated opposition, to be destroyed for their dissent, but a great legal danger to all Bushites who were involved in the nuke-planting plot, starting (at least) with Cheney.

The outing of Brewster/Jennings on July 22 is further evidence that the Plame outing was not triggered by the Wilson article (July 6) but rather by the Kelly disclosure from Blair (July 7). The BJ outing doubled their legal risks, and accomplished nothing as to "punishing" Joe Wilson for his dissenting article. Talk about overkill. And there it is nakedly in cold print. It's not even subtle. This is so stupid. There must have been a million other ways to punish Wilson, or even to destroy BJ. It all points to haste, panic, rush. They wanted to silence, disable, disrupt, punish and endanger Plame and her whole network NOW, and had no time for subtler methods and little time to cobble together cover stories.

The Rovian revenge story has always seemed odd to me--that Wilson being the husband of a covert CIA WMD expert somehow discredits him as an emissary to Niger on nuke material; it would seem to do just the opposite--enhance his mission. This cover story apparently had a couple of purposes, all mixed up together, one of them being to point away from Cheney as the architect of the Niger mission, but it's such a confused tale that I was thinking something got lost in translation--from Cheney to Libby to Rove, Miller and others; but now I think: haste, panic. They DIDN'T HAVE TIME to put anything better together. Why the rush? And, for that matter, why not just let Wilson's article sink into oblivion from entropy, as the war profiteering corporate news monopolies would certainly let it do, if they were ordered to.

David Kelly and a Bushite plot to plant WMDs in Iraq makes a lot of things make sense. That's why it's a good working theory. I haven't had time to put together an annotated version. There are refs for many of the points in this tale. But it is a tale, a theory, a narrative, a speculation, on the whole--a valid and necessary thing to do, in looking at a complex crime like this one. As I said, it completes the arc of Treasongate: from the U.S. to Britain to Iraq; from the scientists and intel professionals to the political spinners to the public; from lying about WMDs, to planting WMDs, to covering up the planting of WMDs, to committing other crimes to cover up the cover ups. It also suits these criminals. It fits their M.O., that they would attempt such a deceit.

Back away from it a bit and ask yourself: What the hell is the entire Bush regime doing before a Grand Jury, for trying to discredit and shake off a dissenter from their war policy? Isn't that some underling's job? Why the full court press? Why risk everything for it? It was just words, after all--from their point of view, a propaganda game, a game they had been playing well, as had Blair in England. The great majority of people didn't believe them anyway. It was a game of illusions, and short attention spans, and lapdog corporate news monopolies. Why take such risks over a dissenting article, or even a book, or a few relatively mild disclosures to the BBC?

It doesn't add up--unless you add in David Kelly and the WMD plot. Fear and panic were at work, not just arrogance. Arrogance would have ignored Wilson, and maybe very quietly destroyed his bank credit or something. Instead, they turned what could have been a quickly forgotten annoyance into their downfall. Why?

I don't mean to dis Wilson in any way. I think he is an incredibly courageous man, brilliant and highly principled, and one of the great patriots of our time. I'm just trying to look at it from the Bushite point of view. If you want something to go away, you don't make a great fuss about it. You might try to kill it with ridicule (which they tried to). But then you cold shoulder it; you act as if it's nothing--a disgruntled former insider. You don't out somebody's CIA wife--over an article! And you for sure don't endanger your entire administration over it.

It wasn't the article. It was something else, something worse. And this theory seems quite plausible as the answer.
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GliderGuider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-05 07:43 AM
Response to Reply #42
43. Wow. What a spectacular piece of analysis!
Thank you for sharing this - you've obviously put a lot of time and thought into it. Have you factored in John Kokal's death yet? It sure looks like he was the "American Kelly".
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Lerkfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-05 08:11 AM
Response to Reply #42
44. wow! that connects all the dots logically and plausibly..and I believe
you may in fact have the right of it.

I"d had similar thoughts, but not the planted WMDs....that's a stroke of insight on your part that finally makes more sense.

I had thought the reason for discrediting Brewster Jennings was because of Cheney selling nuke arms to prohibited countries. Bad enough, yes, but your planting of WMDs makes the full circle from Bushco to journalists and back again in way that is both elegant and chilling.

Whether we ever find out the whole truth, I'm going to accept your analyis as truth regardless.

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WiseButAngrySara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-05 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #42
47. This is utterly excellent! I was ready to discount the WMD plants
theory again (have gone pro and con on this, depending on the author and my mood), but you SO convincingly strung together all of the disparate facts that one knows must somehow 'fit' and connected all of the dots of this THEORY into a very plausible account, with a timeline that provides motivation and intent. It really makes sense, and I need to read more about Kelly's 'suicide' (have done work in forensic pathology), and now I have motivation to take extra time.

Please consider making this a separate thread. I would K and R this thread just for your post, it is that good!

Bookmarking!
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sundancekid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-05 10:14 AM
Response to Reply #42
51. makes me think you are some reincarnation of Le Carre ... BRILLIANT
... and I FULLY agree with your premise: makes absolutely no sense to spend this much political and criminal capital on a mere pet-peeve against a nay-sayer ... their MO is to snuff out the voices of the antagonists, NOT to pay (and pay Big) for the antagonism themselves!!!!

The BJ/Plame counter offensive was in play way back. Wilson was being dissembled back in March 2003 (as he said, and repeats in his book); Rice played a key role in the coverup-the-coverup-of-sexed-intelligence, as would be expected; let's remember that Cheney's neocon shop (the very same suspects ... Libby, Feith, Franklin, Luti, Ledeen, Hannah, Hadley, Bolton, Chalabi, Miller etc.) had been plotting Iraq II from forever with a clear and determined whatever-it-would-take approach.

The very kind of analytical carelessness you mention on the part of the Buskeviks is testimony to the afterburn of all their PREVIOUS HUBRIS. But now that hubris finally meets its match ... hello, Fitz.
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-05 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #42
55. i have been posting kelly for over 3 months now..
and it has gone ignored...i have been convinced since the get go..the judith miller connection has been her outing of dr david kelly...she spilled the beans on dr kelly and i believe she set him up for his murder...dr kellys last email to judith miller if my memory is correct said dr kelly couldnt wait to get back to iraq but he had to wait until after september as he had to walk his first born down the isle for her wedding...

no man would commit suicide 2 months before his daughter got married...no way no how!!!!!!!1

fly
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-05 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #55
70. wasn't he wearing a heart monitor when he was found?
He had a Holter monitor or something like that he was to wear for 24 hrs with electrodes taped on. Who wouldn't take that off before killing themself. Might as well be comfortable.
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GliderGuider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-05 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #70
77. He had the 4 electrode pads on
But no sign of the monitor itself. There seems to be some confusion about the origin of the pads. One report I read said they'd been placed by the ambulance attendants, but other reports insist they were there when the body was discovered. The latter implies that they were placed by the murderers to verify Kelly's death, but they weren't removed. This in turn sugggests the murder might have been interrupted in its final stages, accounting for the sloppy detailing of the scene.
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-05 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #42
56. I'm printing this one out as reference material.
It'll be interesting how closely this resembles reality. I just hope we get a peek at the truth!!! I just hope Fitz is revealing that truth by following the facts.

These are incredible times!!! :bounce:
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AuntiBush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-05 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #42
59. Shew. Thank You!
For your info.

:popcorn:
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goforit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-05 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #42
60. Bravo!!!!!!........A phenom in the making!!! Great analysis!!!
Yes your psychoanalysis of finding a motive is outstanding!!!

It truely shows that Rove and the gang are not very bright at all.
And explains why Rice/Cheney/Libby/Rove/Powell/many GOPs(and even some DEms) are hiding from own demise.

Peace Patriot....Hats off to you!!!!
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hang a left Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-05 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #42
63. Whoa.
Awesome analysis. I wish I could write like you. Anyway, do you remember when * got up in front of all of us and said something to the effect of "Oh, we are going to find WMD, you can bet on it". I am not sure of the timing but I remember him categorically stating that they WOULD find WMD. Do you remember that? Was that about the same time.
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Jose Diablo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-05 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #42
64. Very good analysis, I saved your post to see how all this plays out
I am not sure though that the panic that resulted in outing BJ was just about the plot to plant WMD in Iraq. Could BJ have uncovered something much more dark and sinister than the plot to plant WMD? The reason I wonder this is because I don't see these people as being panicked by much and the idea that being outed for not finding WMD doesn't seem to me sufficient to cause panic among these players.

Anyway, the best information available we have today points to what you are saying.

It is interesting that Blair called AF1 when he did, he would have had to have his shorts in a knot to do that. That would seem to indicate something he learned about Kelly and what Kelly knew. Even so, would the plot to plant WMD being made public cause these folks to panic enough to blow BJ rather than shut it down softly, quietly? So many questions....

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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-05 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #64
86. Please note, I have no evidence that Blair called AF-1 about Kelly...
...(circa July 7, 2003). I'm just speculating that he did, on the basis of reports that he spoke frequently with Bush, and on what the Hutton report said (Blair informed on that day that Kelly knew more)--and, of course, on what happened next, the flurry of activity on AF-1 and on the ground, to get Plame outed (activity that has a desperate, panicky feel to it). Also, I can't imagine that they interrogated Kelly for days at a "safe house," found out he knew more, and DIDN'T apprise the Bushites. (According to all reports, the Bushites and Blairites were working very closely together on the cooking of intelligence.)
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countryjake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-05 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #42
66. Copied, saved, and printed your post! Fine analysis here!
Thanks for laying it all out, Peace Patriot!
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fob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-05 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #42
81. Your theory also answers one of the most lingering questions for me
That being, Why didn't they just plant the wmd's?

The answer (your working theory) is that they TRIED and were foiled somehow (kelly, BJ, Plame) and once they went into attack mode to discredit plame,wilson et al, and to cover up their ATTEMPTED planting, they had to abandon the plan. Like you said the best they could do was switch from "dazzle 'em with brilliance (finding planted wmd's)" to "baffle 'em with bullshit (weapons of mass destruction program related activities).

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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-05 08:20 AM
Response to Reply #33
46. Planting weapons
might be able to be pulled off by private contractors.
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EuroObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-05 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #18
76. Here's the Kelly email
we're told was to Judy (how do we know this?), sent a few hours before he died, as archived on the Hutton Inquiry site (.pdf) - Doesn't mention a trip to Iraq.

http://www.the-hutton-inquiry.org.uk/content/com/com_4_0076.pdf
From: David Kelly
Sent: 17 July 2003 11:18
To:
Subject: you
I will wait until the end of the week before judging - many dark actors playing games.
Thanks for your support I appreciate your friendship at this time.
Best,
David

Here are some (I'm not sure to whom) that do:

http://www.the-hutton-inquiry.org.uk/content/com/com_4_0071.pdf
From : David Kelly
Sent: 17 July 2003 11:18
To:
Subject : RE (no subject)
Many thanks for your thoughts It has been difficult Hopefully it will all blow over by the end of the week and I can travel to Baghdad and get on with the real work
Best wishes,
David

http://www.the-hutton-inquiry.org.uk/content/com/com_4_0072.pdf
From: David Kelly
Sent: 17 July 2003 11:18
To :
Subject:
Many thanks for your thoughts and prayers It has been a remarkably tough time .
Should all blow over by early next week then I will travel to Baghdad a week friday .
I have had to keep a low profile which meant leaving home for a week Back now.
With best wishes and thanks for your support
David

http://www.the-hutton-inquiry.org.uk/content/com/com_4_0073.pdf
From : David Kelly
Sent: 17 Jul 2003 11 :18
To:
Subject : RE I'm in town
Many thanks for the email
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Burried News Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-05 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #18
84. Yes - a thousand times yes.
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Dinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-05 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #16
82. " . . . planned and executed 9-11" Is Right
I thought that from the moment In heard the first tower was hit.
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VegasWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-11-05 09:20 PM
Response to Original message
17. There is a God! nt
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countryjake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-11-05 10:32 PM
Response to Original message
21. Wall Street Journal one is already online...
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evermind Donating Member (833 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-11-05 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. This might be from that
Edited on Tue Oct-11-05 10:47 PM by evermind
found at:
http://www.redstate.org/story/2005/10/11/222953/27

down towards the bottom, under the heading "from tomorrow's Wall Street Journal"


Mr. Fitzgerald's pursuit now suggests he might be investigating not a narrow case on the leaking of the agent's name, but perhaps a broader conspiracy.

<snip>

Until now, Mr. Fitzgerald appeared to be focusing on conversations between White House officials such as Mr. Libby and Karl Rove, President Bush's senior political adviser, after Mr. Wilson wrote his op-ed. The defense by Republican operatives has been that White House officials didn't name Ms. Plame, and that any discussion of her was in response to reporters' questions about Mr. Wilson, the kind of casual banter that occurs between sources and reporters.

Mr. Rove, who has already testified three times before the grand jury and was identified by a Time magazine reporter as a source for his story on Mr. Wilson, is expected to go back to the grand jury, potentially as early as today, to clarify earlier answers.

Lawyers familiar with the investigation believe that at least part of the outcome likely hangs on the inner workings of what has been dubbed the White House Iraq Group. Formed in August 2002, the group, which included Messrs. Rove and Libby, worked on setting strategy for selling the war in Iraq to the public in the months leading up to the March 2003 invasion. The group likely would have played a significant role in responding to Mr. Wilson's claims.
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hang a left Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-11-05 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #22
28. That is explosive to say the least.
But I haven't read word one about Cheney yet.
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robertpaulsen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-05 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #28
68. WHIG is Cheney.
If this article is correct that Fitzgerald is investigating a conspiracy instigated by WHIG, then that means Cheney is being investigated as a target.
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countryjake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-05 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #68
69. "perhaps a broader conspiracy"
That's the line that brings in the Veep! When the article talks about how "up until now" the investigation was focused narrowly on the Plame name leak, ya gotta figure with that sort of language in such a newspaper, we may soon be reading about bigger fish to fry! Anyone have a list of who's in that White House Iraq Group?
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GliderGuider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-05 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #69
72. Who's who in WHIG
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countryjake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-05 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #72
74. Thanks! Wilkinson's not named on that list...
here's another link on "the Group" that I found.

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=White_House_Iraq_Group

The page also has a link to Sam Gardiner's "Truth from the Podia" paper, which I'd read way back when, but is so much more relevant now.

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countryjake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-05 12:17 AM
Response to Reply #22
30. Aaaah thanks! This is an interesting line...
"Formed in August 2002, the group, which included Messrs. Rove and Libby, worked on setting strategy for selling the war in Iraq to the public in the months leading up to the March 2003 invasion. The group likely would have played a significant role in responding to Mr. Wilson's claims."

I'm so hoping that Cheney's drool is all over that yellow-cake forgery! (and Rummy's too, for that matter!)

More snippets of that article sure would be nice; I want a record of the emptying of this White House!
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mountebank Donating Member (755 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-05 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #21
53. Here it is for free....
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countryjake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-05 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #53
65. Thank you! A link I can click on! So they actually do imply...
that this investigation now goes back to cabal-discussions made before Joe Wilson had put anything into print. Very encouraging! I wonder how much sputtering this has caused in the high offices of corporate America this morning, ha!
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buddysmellgood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-11-05 10:51 PM
Response to Original message
25. Don't tease me damn it!
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fishwax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-05 02:44 AM
Response to Original message
34. I just so desperately want this to be true
it would be too beautiful to see my old congressman doing the perp walk :)
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truthisfreedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-05 02:51 AM
Response to Original message
35. 5 more votes and this story makes the main page. DU it people!
it's what we live for! 8^)
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OneGrassRoot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-05 05:49 AM
Response to Reply #35
37. Done ...... *S* n/t
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-05 05:55 AM
Response to Original message
39. It will be difficult
to keep this separate from our friend and hero, Dick Cheney. The first meeting, held on or about March 8, 2003, occured in the office of Dick Cheney. While it is not clear if he was there or not, it is known that Lewis Libby was running this first attempt to organize a plan to crush Joe Wilson. Libby would not, and indeed could not, make a decision to devastate the point for the organized agency opposition to the Bush/Cheney war lies, without checking with Dick.
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Disturbed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-05 06:01 AM
Response to Reply #39
40. The rank and file of the CIA and former members know..
that they were betrayed by the Bush Regime. Payback will be exacted.
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pisle Donating Member (35 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-05 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #39
54. I've always wondered why
Cheney was the only one in the administration who came right out and said with confidence in August of 2002: "Simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction."

It's kind of a stretch, I know, but if there was even the seed of a plan to plant WMD in Iraq (even before the special group was formed), it would explain that kind of confident declaration from Cheney.

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goforit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-05 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #54
61. Welcome Pisle!......Cheney was a broken record on that statement!!!
Over and over he kept hitting home with that statement.
Almost to the point he was attempting to brainwash the public.

He's been such a sick SOB about terrorizing the public.
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pisle Donating Member (35 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-05 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #61
62. I'm no expert on prosecution strategy
but, does it make sense that of all those called to testify, all are linked to Cheney in very important ways ... and Cheney was only called in to testify once -- not under oath.

This is why I think it's possible that Fitzgerald's strategy may be to gather all the damning evidence on Cheney through the testimony of those under his command and finally indicting the real mastermind behind this whole treasonous administration. But, who knows ...

And thanks for the welcome. I've only been reading DU for 4 years on a daily basis and I'm up to 10 posts already!!!
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-05 09:30 AM
Response to Original message
48. Guess that means Barney will have to step up to the plate.
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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-05 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #48
79. I think Barney is ready - Surely a seasoned leader -
:patriot:
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Supersedeas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-05 10:15 AM
Response to Original message
52. so, they are reporting again???
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wryter2000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-05 10:56 AM
Response to Original message
58. Oh, gawd
Is is possible to have a news orgasm? :evilgrin:
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converted_democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-05 01:23 PM
Response to Original message
67. Hot damn, please be true!!!! n/t
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Kolesar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-05 02:47 PM
Response to Original message
71. I will believe it when I see it
More likely, they are reviewing Rove's faxes of how to lie and spin the story. IOW, situation normal.
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countryjake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-05 06:18 PM
Response to Original message
80. Kick
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Nimrod2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-05 08:08 PM
Response to Original message
83. May the force and god be with Fitzgerald...
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