FEMA is not covering up the death toll.

[SouthernDem2004]

I am unable to get on the internet often and I have to say I am amazed to see that some on DU keep saying FEMA is covering up the death toll. This is completely untrue. Body counts are done by the local Coroners. There is no coverup.

Yes, people are "missing." When FEMA emptied shelters they sent them all over the place without telling the local officials where they went so we have no way of tracking them. Look at who is reporting people missing. The reports are often filed by friends or family that do not have requent contact with the "missing" on a regular basis. People that left did not notify everyone they ever knew. We are slowly but surely locating the "missing."


Death to FEMA and Nationwide Insurance,

SouthenDem2004

[Demit]

1. Death to FEMA?

What do you want instead, the military in control?

[SouthernDem2004]

11. Actually, yes I do.

[LostinVA]

16. Not me -- I have a degree in history

And am also a student in history, and that is a step that can literally mean death to us all. This is how the final closing of the fist begins: with the military. It is against the law, and against the very meaning and spirit of this nation. No frigging way.

[converted_democrat]

28. You could not be more correct.....n/t

[SouthernDem2004]

30. How so?

How is it against the law?

Also, The initial response is about moving people and equipment quickly. FEMA fails to do this time after time.

[DS1]

35. FEMA has been excellent in the past, it just needs a command above

it that gives a damn.

Posse Comitatus is why it's illegal to have the military take on civilian law enforcement.

Death to ignornace and total lack of research,
DS1

[SouthernDem2004]

44. Yes, Death to ignorance and the total lack of researh.

Excellent in the past? LOL

Pick a hurricane and do some research. Heck, pick one when a Democrat was President. Name one that FEMA did not fail in initial response?
Ask someone from Florida about FEMA...

[DS1]

52. Charley, Florida, 2004

Not surprisingly an election year and a very important state - which is my point about FEMA being capable AS LONG AS there's a Commander in charge that actually gives a shit.

http://www.usatoday.com/weather/hurricane/2004-08-26-charley-fema_x.htm

[KittyWampus]

53. FEMA Under Clinton did excellent work during TWO record breaking floods

[SouthernDem2004]

56. Floods are localized. Hurricanes the size of Katrina hit huge areas.

FEMA under President Clinton did poorly during Ivan.

[geomon666]

71. Ivan was in 2004.

As far as I know, Clinton wasn't president. Then again, no one really was.

[SouthernDem2004]

79. My bad.

[Sterling]

87. FEMA was great after the 1994 LA quake.

FEMA can do good work. I can't believe an American would want the military in charge. Seems very un American to me.

[whatever4]

49. "How is it against the law?" And that's why we're all doomed nm

[converted_democrat]

55. Isn't it amazing people don't know what Posse Comitatus is??

Is it really any wonder our country is in such awful shape??

[SouthernDem2004]

58. Do you???? Seems not...

"Posse Comitatus clarifications emphasize supportive and technical assistance (e.g., use of facilities, vessels, aircraft, intelligence, tech aid, surveillance, etc.) while generally prohibiting direct participation of DoD personnel in law enforcement (e.g., search, seizure, and arrests)."


The military is needed in a supportive role. We needed personnel to help search for surviviors and recover the dead. We needed their medical teams. We needed their trucks and supplies. We needed their aircraft. We needed them ASAP.

[Horse with no Name]

60. The military doesn't take a "supportive" role

They take full command and call the all of the shots.

[SouthernDem2004]

64. Odd, they did not here. They lack the authority to take command of locals

They set up a desalinization station for our only remaining hospital. They helped search for bodies and they helped at Points Of Distribution. (PODS) They played a purely supportive role.

The National Guard is a different story.

[Sterling]

89. And ad to that he actually said he wants the Military in charge

This "supportive role" seems to contradict the statement he made that started this tangent of the thread. Which is it do you think that he really means?

See posts 1 and 11.

[SouthernDem2004]

94. The answer is the same. I want the military involved in a supportive

role. I want it in charge of the logistics. It has the ability to move supplies and equipment quickly. It has the people and resources on hand. It has the manpower for S&R. It can have boots on the ground within hours on an event.

Sorry if my posts are confusing to you. I never stated I wanted the military to do anything other then a supportive role. FEMA does nothing but support also. They do the paperwork and pay for the out of state LE help but they have no actual involvement with law enforcement. The military can play the same role.

[dchill]

66. "The military is needed in a supportive role."

Then we need to bring our National Guard troops home, and their trucks, supplies and aircraft with them. Can you not imagine how Bush could misuse federal troops on American soil in any "emergency"?

[SouthernDem2004]

67. Different issue.

The regular military can still respond quicker then the Guard.

Also, we had no shortage of Guard even though the bulk of ours is currently in Iraq.

[dchill]

74. You just wrote two sentences...

that make absolutely NO sense and defy rationality.

[SouthernDem2004]

80. I will try to explain...

The National Guard is controlled by the state's govenor. They can be used as the state pleases when it declares a state of emergency.

The regular Army is controlled by the Federal Government. Their use within the U.S. is restricted.

Sorry if that makes no sense to you.

[converted_democrat]

73. WTF are you talking about????

I know what Posse Comitatus is. I made a statement to someone else that had nothing to do with you or your statement. Stop being paranoid.

[SouthernDem2004]

81. Sorry if pointing something out upsets you. This is a public forum.

[converted_democrat]

85. You didn't upset me, you just surprised me with your level of paranioa....

It's a public forum, really?? I didn't know....:sarcasm: The statement I made didn't have anything to do with you, but you took it as some kind of attack.

[SouthernDem2004]

59. Because you do not know the answer? Try looking it up. Its not against

the law. The military is allowed to play a supportive role.

[leesa]

107. That's not true. FEMA did a great job in the past. They are able to

untilize the military but not for policing. They already HAVE the power to use the military.

[Richard Steele]

63. Very well put. Absolutely correct.

And I think the member you addressed that to
is well aware of it.

[leesa]

106. What on earth would you want the military in control for?? You want 1950

Russia here? The military is for readiness in case of attack but you want to attack your own citizens? They are not trained for this!

[whatever4]

2. But, last I heard

Last I heard there were still over 10 thousand people missing, and I've read first-hand reports of people being told they may NOT share information publicly, as to how many dead bodies they retrieved and estimates.

I'd like to believe there is no coverup. But, I don't. I read one place that there are still almost a hundred missing British visitors to the area. So, if almost a hundred visitors haven't gotten in touch with anyone after a month, I'd think most of them are dead. And if just those brits were lost in this thing, how many locals are likely to have died? To me, the numbers don't add up.

Foster kids with missing parents, and the official story is that those parents are too busy to look for their kids? Over a hundred?? No way, that isn't how parents work, not even the foster kind. Those parents are dead.

I think there is a cover up. I wish you had something more to discount it with, because I don't want that to be happening. This feels just like 911, with lots of spin and theories and discounted theories, but still many unanswered questions and many deaths on American soil. When the mismanagement of the disaster is taken into consideration, I'd say it's VERY hard to believe the official story about the death count. And until I hear something credible, I believe they are, indeed, hiding the total numbers of deaths. Why, I don't know. I'd think they wouldn't bother with it. We were already shocked past numbness by Katrina; they should have used it to let the huge death toll fly in one of their spin shows.

In all honesty, I'd be a fool to believe the official stories at this point. If the authorities are being truthful about this, that in itself would be an aberration. It is unlikely, at this point, that the authorities are being truthful, if it does not serve them to do so. That's what they do, and have done all along, in this thing.

It's been over a month. I'm sorry, but I cannot believe the death toll could possibly be in the order of 2000 people, and there's been nothing but crazy spin about Katrina all along. Unless we believe they really did the best they could with Katrina, but I don't buy that at all, and so I can't buy this idea.

[Divernan]

5. It's quite possible Bush/Chertoff have ordered FEMA to not comment.

When FEMA was sent to Florida before last year's election, they were told either keep everyone in Florida happy or FEMA will be terminated. It was quite clear to the rank and file FEMA that the political hacks at the top were going to throw money around to win the election. You recall that Brown dropped the requirement for documentation of claims? That he hired a large crew of untrained people to "investigate" and accept claims? Again, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. If you do that, given how Bush has gutted and prostituted every Federal agency, we would be a nation of privatized anarchy.

[mattclearing]

6. Agreed.

The missing figure seems closer to the actual death toll than the death toll at this point.

Speaking of which, did anyone ever hear from Al-CIAda? He's a DU'er from the NOLA area who doesn't seem to have posted since the hurricane. A couple of people asked about him, but still no word.

[NMDemDist2]

9. he checked in with someone I saw. He's OK but IIRC he lost his

home

[mattclearing]

18. That's awful, but a relief nonetheless.

Beats the alternative, for sure.

[Pepper32]

3. Well, since YOU say so...

I guess I have no choice but to believe FEMA is not covering up the death toll. :party:

Thanks soooooooooo much.

[SouthernDem2004]

12. Believe what you wish. There is zero evidence of a coverup.

I know the death toll for the MS Coast is accurate.

[whatever4]

15. Zero evidence of corruption

...and there are WMD
...and there are only a few prisoners, and they're not really POW's
...and only a few of them are innocent, most are criminals
...and no, we don't torture them
...not very many of them, only by accident, only a few
...okay, more than a few, but we didn't mean to do it
...and there aren't any children in those prisons
...we never torture children
...not that many of them
...and there aren't any rapes, beatings or murders
...not that many of them
...and that CIA worker was NOT a covert agent, we didn't know
...and we didn't "leak" her name
...er, we didn't leak her real job
...and anyway, we don't know why we leaked her name, how could we have known she was covert??

At this point, distorting the truth is an established pattern of the feds.

No coverup? I see no evidence of a lack of a cover up.
........five days later
...and good job Brownie
...and we handled Katrina just FINE
...and not that many people died
...really, not that many
...and if there are, oops sorry, our mistake
...gee, sorry we're so incompetent, we tried
...really

They established the pattern. It's up to them to look like they're breaking it. Until and unless they show indications of breaking that pattern, it only make sense to assume standard practices apply, and the standard practice has been all LIES.

[SouthernDem2004]

31. Like I said. No evidence...

Everything is not connected I am afraid. Bush and FEMA have nothing to do with the death toll. Body recovery is handled by local governments.

[jus_the_facts]

33. Body recovery is NOT being handled by the gov't...but a PRIVATE Co....

....down here...it's been reported several times that a private firm was hired for this duty...not local gov't...and we all know that private firms aren't held accountable...there were several articles posted here as well that spoke of how the firm who was contracted had already been busted for underhanded behavior....truth is we'll never know an accuate count of the dead regardless of who is in charge....to each his own reality...of which is based on deception...illusion and disinformation. :eyes:

[SouthernDem2004]

42. Sorry but do you have any links to that?

I am a Police Officer in Biloxi. We did the initial body recovery until S&R teams arrived from other Departments. Now that they have left our area we handle recovery again. The effort always went through my Department. We know of every body recovered. We did have some volunteers but they also went through us.

[jus_the_facts]

47. here ya go......

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1773932


NEW ORLEANS - As the collection of Hurricane Katrina's dead began in earnest over the weekend, a Houston company that has mastered the craft of dealing with the carnage of disasters was at the center of the effort.

Kenyon International Emergency Services is the sole private company on retainer with the U.S. government to respond to disasters and help manage events causing a catastrophic loss of life.

"When we work on one of these incidents, we work on every part from the beginning to the end. Over the past 76 years we have developed that niche, that presence," Kenyon President and Chief Executive Officer Robert Jensen told the Houston Chronicle in his first interview since the hurricane struck the area.

Kenyon already has about 100 people working on the storm's aftermath, and "that number is growing daily," Jensen said. It has provided a portable morgue and has begun its primary job of collecting remains. It has the ability to help identify victims as well, but so far has not been given that job.

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/nation/3349427


http://www.lightupthedarkness.org/blog/?view=plink&id=1359


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4712365

[SouthernDem2004]

61. They only pickup the bodies once they are located.

Unfortunately I was stuck doing S&R for a while. When we located bodies we just tagged them when we had tags, marked the location and radioed the location in. The funeral homes and others would retrieve them at a later time. It took a while sometimes.

[jus_the_facts]

72. Maybe in your area it worked that way..this article says different in N.O.

"When we work on one of these incidents, we work on every part from the beginning to the end. Over the past 76 years we have developed that niche, that presence,"Kenyon President and Chief Executive Officer Robert Jensen told the Houston Chronicle in his first interview since the hurricane struck the area.

[SouthernDem2004]

82. No, it is the same. See this link from the company's website:

http://www.kenyoninternational.com/

They just pick up the bodies once they are found.

[jus_the_facts]

84. NO..it is NOT the same....did you even read that page you linked?

HOUSTON, TEXAS, September 1, 2005. . .Kenyon International Emergency Services, the world’s leading disaster management company, has activated an emergency action team to respond to the needs of Baton Rouge, Louisiana in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina under an agreement with the US Government and the Department of Homeland Security. Kenyon has deployed one of its fully-equipped mobile morgue kits and a 10-member, specially-trained team to provide morgue support to the area. The mobile morgue includes equipment for search and recovery, victim identification, and pathology. It is one of three mobile morgues held world-wide by Kenyon.

At the location, Kenyon team members—who might include coroners or funeral directors or firefighters place the bodies of the victims in a protective covering and carry them on a stretcher to a waiting vehicle. They are then transported to one of two transfer sites managed by the Federal Disaster Mortuary Operational Response Team (DMORT).

More than 145 Kenyon team members are currently aiding the State of Louisiana in the recovery effort. They are supported by 11 boats and a truck fleet of over 60 vehicles and 3 semi trailers to perform the task they are entrusted to do.

[SouthernDem2004]

86. Sigh, last try...

From the company's site:

"The process begins when calls are received in the Kenyon Dispatch Center either from law enforcement officers, the general public or the state’s human remains call center.

Every morning, the team is briefed on the location to which they are heading that day based on the reported calls from the previous evening. Throughout the day, the information from those calls is then collated and transmitted to one of the multiple Kenyon recovery teams working in New Orleans in that specific location."

They are not contracted to do anything other then pickup. Their capabilities are irrelevant. The article and website state they are just recovery. They are not doing Search & Rescue.

Peace

[jus_the_facts]

88. from the President and CEO's own statement and their website....

...the article I posted in my first post....
"When we work on one of these incidents, we work on every part from the beginning to the end. Over the past 76 years we have developed that niche, that presence," Kenyon President and Chief Executive Officer Robert Jensen told the Houston Chronicle in his first interview since the hurricane struck the area.

...this from their website....

Incident Management; search for and recovery of remains and personal effects; establish, operate and maintain a mass fatality incident morgue (including identification and care of remains); preparation, repatriation, shipping and final disposition of remains (including the provision of caskets/coffins/urns)

....from his statement and the discription of their process on the website...it clearly says in New Orleans they are there to work on every part of the process..from beginning to end...how you arrive at they're ONLY recovering bodies is your own conclusion...as I also stated in my original post....to each his own reality regardless of perception of the deception..illusion...and disinformation.

Peace.

[whatever4]

36. ...and there is no Haliburrrrrrrrrrrrton

and there are no federal contracts, and FEMA is not managing this disaster...

I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be pointedly insulting, I just don't agree with you. At all. I fail to see how they can not be involved with this disaster; it's the biggest black mark they've gotten so far, this admin and FEMA. Even the CIA spy didn't splash the news the way Katrina has; it took years to come out, happened in 2003. They're ALL over this one, it's ALL about damage control, so I can't figure why they would NOT have some part in this massive coverup.

Who they covering up for?? And what fish in the pond is big enough to make it happen? Only the feds, far as I can see. It's what they do.

It's what they do best.

[SouthernDem2004]

43. Well like others...

you can believe what you wish. I choose to have facts. I know the number of dead. The numbers being reported are accurate.

[whatever4]

48. Funny, you seem to be the only one that does nm

[Horse with no Name]

62. What I find the most telling of all

is that they refused to let morticians volunteer their services.
It is under tight rein how many bodies will be reported--and trust me, they already have the figure.

[SouthernDem2004]

65. I live and work in Biloxi. I know the death count here and on the Coast.

People here are basing their opinions on zero facts. They base them on a distrust of bushes government. What they fail to realize is that local governments are not controlled by bush. They fail to realize that Search and Rescue is being done by Law Enforcement. They fail to realize that we are not big fans of FEMA for numerous reasons and do not do their bidding.

I have still seen no facts to support the latest conspiracy theory about the body count.

[bloom]

92. It seems entirely possible

that they are accurately reporting the deaths of the coast and NOT the New Orleans deaths.

Mostly I have no reason, based on previous experience, to believe what the Federal government/BushCo says and every reason to question them.

[AllieB]

70. Hi SouthernDem2004

Isn't it possible that what is true in Biloxi may not necessarily be true in New Orleans? They are in different states.

[SouthernDem2004]

83. Yes and no.

NO is unique because of its location. However, FEMA only performs certain tasks. Search and Recovery and not one of their specific tasks. They do bring in the S&R teams but they are LE Officers from agencies around the country. Once they arrive the coordinate with local Police.

[Name removed]

97. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

98. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SouthernDem2004]

99. Oh yea, I know because I work there. See ya.

[Divernan]

4. What's with your "Death to FEMA"; you prefer privitization/Halliburton?

FEMA was the top/most effective govt. agency under Clinton - the people who work in the ranks there (not the political appointees at the top, or the useless kids of political donors who have been sprinkled at the mid levels by Bush) are the kind of dedicated public servants- good hearted souls you would expect to dedicate their careers to working in high stress situations helping desperate people.

Your "Death to FEMA" and a specific insurance company sounds like you are projecting your bad experience with Bush's FEMA on to the whole agency. So what would you prefer? A Dem administration to purge FEMA of the Bush politicos and restore it to its earlier excellence, or eliminate the agency and rely on the :"kindness" (sarcasm) of privatized providers like Halliburton?

In case you haven't noticed, Bush has prostituted every federal agency with his policies, budget cuts & political crony appointments. We just don't see the results in such blinding light as Katrina placed on FEMA.

[OKNancy]

7. He got screwed by

FEMA and that insurance company. I wouldn't put too much weight on the politics behind it since he lost everything in Katrina.
I'm sure there are a lot of bad feelings on his part at the moment.

[Gman]

8. The rule of thumb with anything in the Bush "administration" is

to assume they're lying or covering up until proven differently.

[Botany]

10. Sad Math

500,000 in NO prior to Katrina
80% leave prior to the storm
100,000 still in NO
35,000 in convention center & super dome
65,000 people in NO
3,600 taken off roofs by Coast Guard

That gives 61,400 people in NO
in harms way. Over 10,000 still unaccounted for.

The vast majority lived but ...... I can smell BS as far as the body count.

[whatever4]

13. That's where I'm at too

It just doesn't make sense. Too many relatives having trouble getting family members, even when the family member is clearly identified. Too many secrets, no reason for them other than corruption. This is life and death stuff, and most adults stop playing games at that point. We're dealing with the criminally insane, our leaders doing this. Not that this is unique in the world, but it's on the unique side for a nation that speaks of freedom and free speach.

But, I know, I know, those are rights for the wealthy now. The rest of us have the right to stfu and die. For national security.

Because the terrorist won. In 2004.

[Horse with no Name]

39. One of the reasons is

That the money that is used to fund life insurance policies is usually heavily at play in the stock market.
When these people are identified then the life insurance companies have to pay. Not only pay, but will have to pay double idemnity for accidental death.
The life insurance companies are reluctant to pull that money out of their investments because chances are, they have long term investments and will have to pay stiff penalties.
For the government, that money is helping to prop up a Stock Market that is a paper tiger at best.
As it is...they can stave off the beast for a couple of years until the family jumps through hoops to have them declared missing and dead.

[whatever4]

51. ah, that explains it

I hadn't thought it through, what the life insurance payments would do. The economy. Stock market. Gesus.

Yeah. Makes sense now. Drag feet. With any luck, some fraction of the recipients will die off in the meantime, in those twisted minds. So sad.

Yo, cop in Biloxi? All I can say is, I hope you're right. I really do. Be careful and I wish you well.

[Horse with no Name]

57. And at best

They keep the interest and dividends on those millions and millions of dollars for a couple of years and force the families to pay at least a couple more years of premiums to keep the policies in effect.
It's always about the money.
The families that can't keep up the premiums will lose the policies.

[KittyWampus]

54. interesting thought- life insurance and stocks not able to pay out

[IndyOp]

75. Remember to use quotation marks appropriately --

Because the terrorist "won". In 2004.

That is just my opinion...

:kick:

[fasttense]

14. Since you say you know about this, then please explain

1. Why the huge number of body bags ordered?

2. Why didn't they do a missing list like they did for 9/11?

3. Why did CNN have to file suit to allow the media from reporting on the recovery of the dead in New Orleans? (If FEMA had no intentions of hiding the information, then the government would not have originally planned to barr the media from reporting on the recovery of the dead.)

[SouthernDem2004]

32. Answers...

1) Nagin over reacted and over ordered body bags and overstated possible deaths. He has even stated such. His reaction was understandable and based on frustration.

2) There are missing lists. Also, we are not talking about a single building. We are talking about a large area with alot of people.

3) They did not wish to ban reporting on the dead and were not seeking to ban reporters from S&R efforts. They attempted to stop the airing of the dead bodies. I have to say I agree with them on that. You have no need to see my dead neighbors before we have notified their families.

[fasttense]

101. You sound like an apologist for the brush administration.

What list? You said yourself the list on different sites were filled with incomplete and haphazard data. What's the big deal of doing one official list? So you use another no bid contractor to start an Official list with some accurate follow up. Any good administrative company could do it. Why not our government?

Yes they wanted to ban reporters from reporting the death toll. Here's the link http://www-cgi.cnn.com/2005/LAW/09/10/katrina.media/ Here's a quote: "For an agency to unilaterally ban all coverage of a major component of its governmental function..." All coverage, please note. The excuse they used was they didn't want the media showing the bodies and you bought it?

I never heard Nagin was involved with body bag orders? How and when did he get into the body bag business?

[cynatnite]

17. FEMA needs to be what it was during Clinton's time...

A cabinet level position independent of the WH ran by competent people.

I don't think there is a cover-up of the death toll, either. I do believe there are some turf wars and lack of organization still going on. I also think we'll never know the truth death toll for a variety of other reasons, but not as a cover-up.

FEMA dropped the ball by not having a central database cataloging the missing and the relocated. Other organizations took it upon themselves and now we have this fractured information with no way of determining who is dead or missing. I also believe there is a lack of updates by those on these lists when they are found and the groups running them.

I think this is why there is so much confusion.

[fasttense]

25. The government showed its true intentions when it planned to barr

the media from reporting on the dead. The government backed down when CNN filed suit not because they changed their minds about allowing the accurate reporting of the dead, but because they figured an easier way to do it. Much easier to do a haphazard count with no accountability then to keep hundreds of reporters out of the city. Less man power intensive.

If the government had gone ahead and fought the suit, then every reporter would have been attempting to get an accurate death count. The government would have inadvertently placed a spotlight on the death toll. Now, by backing off and doing the body recovery in a piecemeal fashion with no one accurately accounting for the dead, the media has lost interest in and desire for an accurate body count.

[Junkdrawer]

19. I think they're lying and, until someone comes forward with hard evidence,

they'll get away with it - regardless of the perpetual doubt that means to the families.

The way they left the dead to rot weeks after rescue operations ended tells me just how concerned they are about the bereaved feelings.

:(

[in_cog_ni_to]

20. What about the 12 bodies a day that are being cremated at just ONE

crematorium? Do you know if those bodies have been identified and do the families know their loved ones are being cremated? Why would a mother and father not want to have a funeral for their children instead of sending them to a crematorium? Just wondering. I found that VERY strange.

[cynatnite]

21. Got a source for this? n/t

[in_cog_ni_to]

22. Just a DUer who has a friend who owns a crematorium and told her this.

MaddyMCall??? I "think???" posted it, but I could be wrong. Maybe do a search with the word crematorium? :shrug:

Her friend told her he/she had been cremating 12 bodies a day.

[cynatnite]

23. Any idea where this is?

I'm not finding anything in regards to this. I have a tendency to lean toward skepticism about claims such as this.

What I did find is that in Mississippi the crematoriums are struggling with not being able to cremate remains fast enough. More families are opting for cremation since the bodies have deteriorated so badly. They are suffering from a backlog to such a degree bodies are being held in freezers. There is hopes the governor will suspend the rules temporarily in order to expedite these orders for the families.

http://www.mississippipolitics.com/archives/001954.php

This article is not dated.

[in_cog_ni_to]

24. I can't remember where it is. MS. or LA. I'll see if I can find the thread

:hi:

[in_cog_ni_to]

26. It's in Mississippi and here's her post. She didn't start the thread.

Maddy McCall (1000+ posts) Mon Oct-10-05 04:09 PM
Response to Original message
3. FEMA is still picking up bodies. My friend owns a crematorium
in Mississippi. He's still getting twelve or more bodies a day to cremate.


Here's the thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5025814#5025966

[cynatnite]

27. I haven't seen her around for a few days...

I'm curious as to what she would make of this other information.

Thanks for digging up the thread :)

[in_cog_ni_to]

29. You're welcome.

:hi:

[jus_the_facts]

34. she posted in LBN just this mornin'.......

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1843845

[IndyOp]

76. Read Maddy's post just below the one you posted (same thread) --

I assumed that he's getting bodies from the MS Gulf Coast of....
people who have already been autopsied and identified. His opinion of the death toll was, "HA! I've already cremated more people than the death toll, and I'm not the only mortuary with a contract."

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

78. The question is... Has anyone identified and claimed those remains?

[Irish Mastiff]

38. In Mississippi the official death toll is 221.

At 12 a day in one crematorium, they would finish the entire death toll for the state in less than 3 weeks. However, all the crematoriums are busy? Sorry, but this just doesn't add up.

On Sept 5th in Jeffereson Parish, Sheriff Lee listed 152 bodies, only 20 Katrina related. By Sept 29th, the 152 number had been lowered to 30, still with 20 Katrina related. What happened to the remaining 122?

To be in the Louisiana death toll, you had to die as a result of wind, drown, or as a result of hospital equipment failing because of no power.
All the other deaths don't get counted.

[pitohui]

96. harry lee is a damn liar

it doesn't surprise me a bit that he is participating in this shameful cover-up of the true toll of the dead, lived in jefferson for years, this man is corrupt down to his toenails

as far as orleans, i know a couple personally, recovered drowned in their attic from the london avenue canal breach, identified by a family member who is new orleans police department -- and THEY are not on the official list of the dead

the death toll is simply not accurate or credible

when you have personal knowledge of dead not included in the toll, it's frustrating, because you know they are lying & you can only wonder how many more are being left off the list

[Throckmorton]

108. What would that crematorium's rate been on a regular day,

In college (1980 and 1981), I worked at a crematorium in Waterbury CT. On a typical day we had around 6 cremations, we took in bodies from an area that comprised about 400,000 people (Litchfield County and upper New Haven County).

Cremation is a lot more popular today than it was 25 years ago. Maybe I'll call my old boss, he still works there, and ask what the throughput in today.

[Throckmorton]

110. Well, I called Ed, my old boss

He said they do about 20 a day now, but that the other crematorium in the area, located in Bethel CT (about 30 miles away) closed 3 years ago due to complaints from the neighbors and that has sent a lot more business their way.

[OneBlueSky]

37. um . . . they STILL haven't searched all of the attics . . .

in the poorer sections of the city . . . something they should have done within days of the hurricane, when they might have found survivors instead of bodies . . .

[SouthernDem2004]

45. I agree but the lacked the man power in NO. Remember the

reports that they had to pull Officers from the search to handle the violence and looting.

[dchill]

68. They turned away "manpower"...

I read that 1000 people with 500 flat-bottom boats were not allowed to go into NOLA because of "safety issues" - safety issues don't apply when lives are at stake, do they? Really?

http://bellaciao.org/en/article.php3?id_article=8036

[OneBlueSky]

102. if Miami Beach had been underwater . . .

they'd have found the manpower . . . and fast . . .

[preciousdove]

40. I will keep asking until I get reasonable answers.

Recovering New Orleans’ dead subordinated to profit and politics
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=103&topic_id=157564

Mystery over true death toll in Mississippi
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=4827653

Chaotic coordination had government scrambling for body bags
http://www.sanluisobispo.com/mld/sanluisobispo/news/nation/12847481.htm

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=5008180

FEMA kept their own contractor Kenyon from doing its job. They weren't keeping track of the live people they were shuffling around. Was any attempt made to have paperwork follow the bodies that were recovered? They didn't even have a phone in San Gabriel until last week and the DMORT spokesman just forgot to mention it in all previous interviews. Either Southerners are very, very stupid or this fiasco is deliberate to cover something up. Stupid is not my choice.

[babydollhead]

41. anyone remember the thread ...

where someone told someone that the death toll numbers would not surpass 9/11's numbers?

[nadinbrzezinski]

46. Yep, several of us said it

they cannot allow the numbers to be over 9.11 the official state religion

[whatever4]

50. And I've read...

It hardly matters. Does it. I was going to mention other odd facts and rumors, frequetly all we have initially to work off of, but, it doesn't matter. We don't have the proof, we can't get the proof, and until that time, the 10 thousand missing peole are...just fine.

There will always be those that care a little less about what it means if they're wrong. Personally, I'd be happy as hell to be wrong.

[dchill]

77. "official state religion"

I don't believe the 9/11 numbers, either.

[izzybeans]

69. True, they are just doing nothing to help out. nt

[callady]

90. 17,000-19,000 homeless in New Orleans

How many perished?

Health Care for the Homeless Program
2025 Canal Street
New Orleans, LA 70112
Phone [phone]


According to service providers' statistics, 17,000 to 19,000 men, women and children in the New Orleans area are homeless.

Facts About The Homeless

In New Orleans Approximately:
? 33% are families; most being women with children
? 30% have jobs: part time; seasonal; minimum wage
? 23% have a chronic mental illness
? 50% have substance abuse problems
? 85% are natives of Louisiana, 15% are non-natives
? Less than 10% of the homeless population is homeless by choice or "hard core" homeless.

http://www.cityofno.com/portal.aspx?portal=48&tabid=6

[symbolman]

91. I keep seeing these threads and I'm frankly getting sick of them

there is a movement and I've been told by a lobbyist pal in DC by the right wing (and of course I'm not accusing YOU dear SouthenDem, or did you mean to say SOUTHERNDEM? Hugh mistake I think) that they are PAYING some folks to infiltrate and destroy boards just like the DU..

how will they do it? Not with obvious attacks (and of course I'm not saying that YOU are a part of this SouthenDem2004) but with innuendoes, and minor flamebaiting.. most of the people that will get you to waste time and energy discussing the unprovable while demanding that you prove to them,usually a negative (which of course is impossible and hire guns from the right know this..)

THey also know that we are NICE guys, raised to answer when spoken to.

But you Don't, you don't have to be drug around by people creating straw men, red herrings, etc..

Someone needs to write a warning about the possible ways to realise that you are being perception managed on threads, seriously, because THAT will be their method for division or wasting bandwidth and time, when you could be on another thread learning about say, the meeting in Rome in 2001 Dec where Ledeen (Rove's hit man) and a FORGER were hammering out the Niger forgeries to be released months later to CREATE a FAKE WAR..

Don't get sucked in, don't waste time, there really are hired guns, and there will be more of them.

[SouthernDem2004]

93. LOL /nt

[loudsue]

103. THANK YOU, SYMBOLMAN!!!! Bingo!!

Please check your PM...

:loveya: I'm SOOOO glad someone is bringing this up, and I'd like to add my 2-cents worth before our posts get pulled:

There has been so much infiltration on DU of late (as well as some other progressive blogs, I might add), that it has become pretty intolerable for many of us. (SouthernDem, this is NOT about you.)

Some of these infiltrators are so very careful to USE the DU rules, so that they won't get banned, and so that they are free to stay here and disrupt threads and create divisions, with just barely enough subtlety to fly under the rules radar. They usually come in groups of 3 or 4 at a time, and they magically seem to appear on threads together, to pat each other on the back, and support each other's CONSERVATIVE (and sometimes RIGHT WING) talking points.

Why people with NO belief in progressive ideals would spend their time posting on a progressive board is beyond me. Well...no, it's not beyond me. It's just like Symbolman said.

They're here to destroy DU. And, in my opinion, it's starting to work. Why in the world the admins don't see it, or ALLOW it, if they DO see it, is beyond me. If I want to discuss things with conservatives, there is MORE than ample opportunity to do it outside of the web, or in some chat rooms. The only difference, anymore, between progressive blogs and chat rooms is the name calling. They're taking up bandwidth and wasting everyone's time.

:kick::kick::kick:

[SouthernDem2004]

104. ookkkaaayyyy but why would they bother with a death toll discussion?

Now the other poster all but called me a whatever. Certainly if he checked a history of my posts he would see they are limited to a few topics mainly involving Law Enforcement. People running around accusing people of things just because they have a different opinion does no good.

I can tell you right now that as a Police Office in Biloxi I know the death count is accurate. Conspiracy types are only going to believe what they want to. They have zero facts and ignore any that disagree with their opinion. Thus is the nature of conspiracy theories...

[pitohui]

95. whatever

am i gonna believe some guy on the internet or my own lying eyes

i know of 3 ppl PERSONALLY not included in the toll, i know these ppl are dead, their bodies have been collected, one of them is already buried, absolutely for these ppl who have been properly identified & accounted for NOT to be listed in the toll -- well there's no excuse for that

it's a cover-up all right

frank minyard (new orleans coroner) has said specifically he has not been given the time or resources he needs to identity the dead, who am i going to believe, coroner of new orleans or some guy on the internet

look

it's a cover-up

maybe not a cover-up of 10,000 dead but certainly a cover-up of we can't admit this was bigger than their precious 9-11

[SouthernDem2004]

100. I love GD.

Same could be said about yoru post. Unidentified have already been counted. We still have unidentified. They may remain that way.

Have you actually seen the list of the deceased?

Believe what you wish. There is no way to dissuade conspiracy types. Facts mean nothing to them.

Peace

[OneGrassRoot]

105. Just giving a hug here...............

SouthernDem2004.......:hug: .

I'm not getting into this discussion, but I did want to acknowledge your on-the-scene role in this disaster and send a hug across the miles. Take care and good luck......:hi:

[pitohui]

109. i've seen the list of 72 named deceased in louisiana

my 3 friends' names are not on that list, one of them was buried on sept 2, when do you suppose his name will be added?

ever? or never?

i agree, when i have certain knowledge of FACTS, i am going to believe the FACTS known personally to me & not false reassurances from my invisible friends on the internet

you may even be well-meaning, which is what is sad abt it