Are the Dem's going along with Bush's police state for the pandemic plan?

[NNN0LHI]

I mean what the feck? I haven't heard no Dem's address this issue at all. Anyone else? I have heard them all going along with Bush's be afraid of the pandemic BS but I haven't heard much else from them. Just as the cable news stations all simultaneously began rolling the footage of chickens flapping their wings en mass.

I find this troubling. I mean if this is such a danger to all of us shouldn't some "pre-emptive" strikes against it be suggested by the guys we are supposed to trust? I mean Jesus Christ look at this:

http://www.forbes.com/finance/feeds/afx/2005/10/12/afx2272224.html

Roche says Tamiflu generic would take 2-3 years, not had approaches about it
10.12.2005, 06:47 AM

ZURICH (AFX) - Roche Holding AG said it would take 2-3 years for a company to make a generic version of Tamiflu, the most effective antiviral treatment available for bird flu, due to the complexity of the production process, and no firm has approached Roche about doing so.

'Our assumption is that for a generic company, it would take two to three years to ramp up production,' a spokesman said, confirming an article in the Wall Street Journal. 'Neither a branded company nor a generic company has approached us about it.'

The company is under pressure to increase production of the antiviral drug as governments prepare for a possible pandemic. It plans to double Tamiflu production by the end of this year over 2004 levels and to double it again by mid-2006.

The spokesman said that the company already outsources some of the ten stages of production to a number of specialist companies in the US, Europe and Asia.

snip

Why doesn't some of our Democratic leaders demand that Bush nationalize a couple of drug companies here in the USA, in the name of national security of course, and start ramping up production of this antiviral drug if we should all be so afraid? Now. Not next year sometime. Right now. Make it available to everyone who wants it free of charge. Pass it out everywhere. Send it to me by mail. Don't know how to find me? Send it with my tax bill. I get that every year.

I also keep hearing no drug companies want to make a vaccine too. Same thing there. Where are the Dem's demanding that Bush nationalize a couple of vaccine makers here, again in the name of national security, and begin to ramp up production there.

This goes for any drug that could save millions of live if?/when? we have this pandemic. I mean for Christs sake 3000 people died on 9/11 and Bush and the Dem's spend hundreds of billions of dollars blowing up half the fecking world and we can't have some drugs ready if we need them for a fecking pandemic that Bush says will kill millions? Whats the matter with this picture?

Why the feck wait are the Dem's letting Bush's pandemic plan consist of getting treated like the people in New Orleans at the barrel of a gun by the Army when we have all this time to plan ahead? I am more worried about Bush calling out the military than I am about the fecking pandemic.

The Dem's could nail Bush to the wall on this one if they wanted to. Because Bush isn't going to spend money on medicine when he has plenty bullets. But when Bush doesn't do these things and people start dying from influenza even the Freepers will be ready to tar and feather him.

WHERE IN THE FECK ARE OUR DEMOCRATIC LEADERS WHEN WE NEED THEM?

Don

[MadHound]

1. Same place that they were for all the other outrages of the past five year

In the back pocket of Corporate America, and adding their voices to the amen chorus. IWR, bankruptcy bill, Patriot Act, prescription drug bill etc. etc. ad nauseum. Corporate whores all.

[mike_c]

2. bingo....

We have a winner.

[seabeyond]

5. i heard a lot of democrats speaking out against these bills, ad

nauseum, ad nauseum.

[MadHound]

7. And a lot more actually voted for them friend

And by a large margin to boot. Majority of Dems voted for the IWR. Large majority of Dems voted for the Patriot Act, etc.

Truth hurts sometimes friend, but it needs to be spoken.

[seabeyond]

9. oh so we are talking what, three years ago. right after 9/11

before the war to iraq. a lot has happened since then my friend

[MadHound]

11. Please, don't give me that tired arguement

That 911 changed everything:eyes: What, did it change our Congressmens' job description too? You know, the part where it says to that they are supposed to represent the will of us, the people. And believe me friend, at the time of the IWR, the people were speaking. Phone calls, faxes, emails, letters and all other communications to the Hill were running 268-1 AGAINST the IWR. Poll after poll showed overwhelming opposition to the IWR until the inspectors finished the job. Millions of people, both here at home and abroad, were out in the streets protesting against the IWR. And I refuse to buy that tired old canard that somehow all these Congresscritters were "fooled", since it seems that relatively few of the American people were fooled along with them. Sorry, but that tired old arguement of yours is long since blown.

And the Patriot Act? Please friend, pull my other leg. Our so called reps basically rubber stamped Bushco's wet dream without even reading the damn thing. Whatever happened to the quaint old fashioned notion of responsibility in government? I'll tell you what happened to it, it went the way of the dodo just as soon as Corporate America started dangling the big bucks in front of politicians from both parties.

Oh, and what about the bankruptcy bill, passed this year friend? No, a majority of Dems didn't vote for that, but a substantial minority did, aprox. 40-45%. Is that vote still covered by your 911 hypotheses?:eyes:

[seabeyond]

12. so much more to this story, my friend, lol

lordy. i haven't even said anything, but you have me saying lots and lots dont you. kinda like having the same old tired argument with yourself. from only one perspective, my Friend. btw, in this point, dont go deciding what i am saying. cause i haven't said much of anything my friend.

you are funny

[MadHound]

15. No you haven't said much,

Like why you continue to defend the indefensible? Or why you continue to give the Dems a pass when they demonstrate time and again that the only people they care about are their corporate masters? Or how you figure that the Democratic party is still working for we the people?

Nope, you're not saying much at all, but then again, given the Democratic record over the past dozen years or so, I wouldn't, and couldn't be saying much either. But then again, I'm not defending them as you are.

So how do you explain all of these actions on behalf of the Dems? What rationale do you have that allows you to continue to support a party that has demonstrated time and again that it isn't your interests that they have close to their heart, but instead the interests of their corporate masters? I'm truly interested in hearing your opinion on this matter.

[seabeyond]

17. who says i give the dems a pass, only you have said that i say that

i don't think i ever stated that i give the dems a pass. aren't you making the assumption that they only care about corporate masters. i mean, i am thinking that is a pretty huge statement to make as a fact. i might not agree with your assessment. and who is to say what i say is in defense of them. again, an assumption on your part.

you threw a lot of bullshit out to manipulate the conversation in what i feel is not an honest depiction and also is a manipulative way of making me defend something i don't feel the need to defend.

oct of 2002 was extraordinary circumstances and a situation we have never experienced in political life. that is a fact. that is not a story, nor a defense. it was unusual in oct 2002. a lot of stuff was happening at that time. you chose to ignore why decisions and votes were made, i chose to look at the reasonings. a lot of shit has happened since allowing more of a voice by the dems, people wanting dems to speak out which encourages the dems to fight, an atmosphere that is conducive to being heard

for me the only way to communicate, identify and resolve is to look at the reasons why

that was the past

i look at today and see all the dems are doing. do i want more, louder, and more harsh, yes. that is me. how i talk. how i address issue. but i can still see what they are doing.

not only have you contorted the past, you ignore what they are doing in the present.

i could go over everything, why i think the way i do, but man...... lots and lots of shit has happened last three, four years to go over.

now, what i would like to do with this fear, bring in militia bird flu bullshit is start an email voice campaign to dems, loud and clear, that we are tired of having fear pumped to us. if there is something coming down the turnpike, lets deal with it the old fashion democratic way. identify the problem, and start implementing preventatives and safety nets for the people

[MadHound]

21. No, you don't specifically say that you give the Dems a pass

But your arguements certainly say that for you loud and clear.

I'm sorry, but I don't care what the atmosphere in the country is, part of being a leader is A) keeping your head about you, and B)doing your job, which in the case of and Congress person is to represent the will of the people, which the Democrats didn't do, period.

When you have millions and millions of people who are overwhelmingly stating their opposition to the IWR, then your duty, as a Congression rep is to vote against the IWR. That is American Gov. 101 friend, and despite whatever excuses you come up for them, the Dems failed miserably. There is no 'contortion" there friend, that is the fact.

The Dems also failed miserably on the Patriot Act, and again, there are no excuses. Yeah, yeah, I've heard all the excuses, a different time, yadda yadda. Yet that still doesn't explain why they didn't even READ the damn bill! If they had actually read the bill, saw what an abomination it was, chances are they might have actually voted against it. Instead, they simply voted in lockstep with the 'Pugs and took our civil liberties away. Again, they failed American Gov 101, miserably.

And you keep saying that things have changed since '02? How? The damn fools keep voting for every goddamn war budget request that comes up, despite the obvious fact that Iraq has turned into an unwinnable quagmire. And now Dems such as Hillary are talking up putting even more troops into the mess to die. Hello!?

Meanwhile, even though the 'Pugs are obviuosly in self destruct mode, the Dems can barely raise the energy to cheer, much less act like an opposition party. The president makes the obvious blunder of endorsing torture, yet we barely hear a peep from the Dems. Bushco nominates an obvious crony in Meiers, yet is from the 'Pugs that we hear the loudest complaints. No friend, things haven't changed much at all, the Dems that are in Congress are still doing a mighty fine impersonation of a door mat.

[seabeyond]

23. But your arguments certainly say that for you loud and clear.

no they don't. that is just your interpretation, that i find lacking, your interpretation of the events.

you positively say, that is what i am saying without saying it. argument lost. you are expounding a fact when there is no fact.

now i will read the rest of you post. possibly may agree.

[MadHound]

25. Sure you are

You have stated time and again in this little tete-a-tete that we have to take into consideration that things were different in '02, that times have changed, etc. etc. I'm sorry, but any realistic person would construe that as giving the Dems a pass. And even when I bring up issues FROM THIS YEAR, you still make excuses, and again give the Dems a pass.

Look you can tap dance around reality all you want, but when push comes to shove, the Dems have fallen down badly the past number of years. They have gone against the will of their constituents, and against what is best for this country. No matter how you gild the lily friend, the sad fact of the matter is that the Democratic party has, for the most part, failed to do their job, plain and simple. And they are continuing to do so up to this day.

Fulfilling the wishes of their constituents, that is job 1 for anybody in Congress. They have failed in this miserably. Please, prove me wrong, but I doubt that you can.

[converted_democrat]

6. I agree with you. Most of them have indeed sold out. n/t

[KittyWampus]

14. Actually, Why REACT & Allow The Right To Dicate The Agenda???

The Democrats are slated to come up with their 5 point plan.

But that won't make the Reactionary Screamers on DU happy. They're only happy when elected Democrats are forever on the recieving end.

[MadHound]

16. You know what would make this lifelong Dem happy friend?

It would be for our so called leaders to step up to the plate and actually be an opposition party again. It would be for this party that is supposedly for the working guy, the average American to actually stop putting the interests of their corporate masters ahead of everybody else. It would be for the Dems to actually become Dems again.

But it seems that sadly, that isn't going to happen. And what is even worse is that in the face of ever mounting evidence of the Democrats being in the back pocket of Corporate America, blindly loyal followers continue to make excuses and spin to try and explain away the party's spectacular shortfalls.

[NNN0LHI]

18. We have the Repug's, Dem's, and the media terrorizing the entire country...

...into a lather from fear that up to 150 million people could die from a bird flu that has killed 60 people since 2003. The Dem's bold plan is to call for a pandemic director. And then we have Bush calling for martial law at the first fecking sniff of influenza in the USA. And then we have the poster above you saying be happy don't worry. Intriguing. Yes Don you have passed through the looking glass.

Don

[babydollhead]

3. question

doesn't rummy own the flu vaccine company?

[NNN0LHI]

27. I don't know. Never heard that n/t

[seabeyond]

4. I have heard them all going along with Bush's be afraid of the pandemic BS

i havent heard the democrats say anything about this flu. please provide a link and/or names of the elected democrats that are going along with the fear fear fear the bird flu. i read this board all day every day, but i am not watching news or cspan. when have the dems been talking about this

if they havent been talking about it, why are you saying they are going along with it. and now concluding from other posts, of course they go along with it because of phamacutical companies. isnt that like spreading, ..... gossip? a made up story?

[NNN0LHI]

8. They want Bush to appoint a "pandemic director"

Yea thats just the ticket. Sounds very pro-active to me. They are right on the ball. That Bush "pandemic director" will set everyones mind at ease I am sure. We are being told millions will die and the Dem's say a pandemic director" will take care of it. There you go. Feel safer now do you?

Don



http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N05542114.htm

Democrats say US unprepared for fatal flu outbreak

WASHINGTON, Oct 5 (Reuters) - Democrats in Congress on Wednesday stepped up their criticism of the Bush administration's preparation for a possible influenza pandemic and called for the creation of a White House czar to oversee the nation's readiness and response.

"The administration has failed to prepare adequately for a flu pandemic," Sen. Edward Kennedy, a Massachusetts Democrat said. "The danger of a major hurricane hitting New Orleans was ignored until it was too late. We can't make the same mistake with pandemic flu."

Kennedy and other Democrats, including Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid of Nevada, introduced legislation to establish a White House "director of pandemic preparedness and response."

Some international organizations also have called on the United States and other countries to step up their investment in the fight against the disease.

[seabeyond]

10. big cry from bring in the military

bush went on tv one tues? morning to say if the bird flu comes we will shut down regions and bring in the military. seems to me, and would have to do more research before ranting about something, democrats are holding bush feet to the fire. what i have noticed that few seem to be taking note of is the cry for military to step in, but doesn't seem to be any effort into a structure with medical and hospital awareness and plan. i would think that would be the place we would be focusing our attention. yet once again in bush ineptness, he only goes to military for control, not an ounce of prevention. wouldn't democrats be derelict to NOT call bush on this consistency in his administration.

senator edwards is pretty good at taking care of his people. all of us. he generally looks to what is best for the lowest of us, how to protect us. i will listen to see what he is asking, what he is looking for before passing judgment. and i have not seen kennedy been over, for bush.

edit: spelling

[NNN0LHI]

13. Well then provide a quote where some Dem leader who says they don't...

...support Bush's idea of using the military for a pandemic on us. I hope you can find one. I will feel better if you can find one. I have been unable to find any since Bush's speech and I have been looking every day since then. And show me where a Dem suggests nationalizing drug making facilities and maybe saving millions of lives. And read my sig line.

Don

[seabeyond]

19. so, because they havent spoken out about bush speech, you have

interpreted that to mean they support and are backing bush military plan. wow

ok

as i said, i dont know what the dems are or are not saying about it. not watching news. not watching cspan which is about the only place i hear dems able to speak. and i have seen no posts on tis board of dems saying anything about the bird flu. but then i dont think it is my obligation to prove to you they dont support bush using military. after all you started a thread stating they absolutely SUPPORT bush military and then proceeded to tear the dems a new one

i am simply asking you to tell me why. now i see you jsut made up a story on assumption. i dont know

your thread

[NNN0LHI]

20. Couldn't find even one? Ruh, roh n/t

[seabeyond]

22. didnt look. ruh roh. didnt i make clear on two posts, that i

havent looked. that i dont know. i am not declaring a statement. you are. it is yours to prove. you made a statement.

your whole argument and debate is flawed.

[NNN0LHI]

24. I would have thought those worried about avian flu would be all for this?

I don't get it? Maybe they ain't so worried after all?

Don

[NNN0LHI]

26. Vaccine not made fast enough, U.N. official says

http://www.suntimes.com/output/health/cst-nws-bird12.html

ROME -- U.N. officials said Tuesday they are exploring ways to step up the production of a vaccine in case bird flu mutates and sparks a human flu pandemic.

David Nabarro, the U.N. coordinator for avian and human influenza, said it will take six months to build up a stockpile of vaccines, but authorities are worried that amount of time might be too long if a pandemic flu strain emerges.

''We will need to have vaccines much more quickly than six months,'' Nabarro said, adding that the World Health Organization and governments are exploring how to ''pull together vaccine manufacturers'' to see if it can be done more quickly.

''The World Health Organization as we speak is looking at options to get a scaling up of vaccine production capacity,'' Nabarro said.

[NNN0LHI]

28. Starting to think a lot of people are making a lot of money off this scam

And they are all in on it. Y2K all over again. Americans never learn.

Don

[NNN0LHI]

29. Last night there was one flu thread after another. Today? Hardly a one

Where did all the "its not a matter of if but when" folks go? Must be taking a break?

Don

[NNN0LHI]

30. kick

[NNN0LHI]

31. Prepare for flu -- but not with military

http://www.pantagraph.com/stories/101205/opi_20051012005.shtml

<snip>The U.S. Department of Health and Human Services' draft report on dealing with an influenza pandemic doesn't even mention military-enforced quarantines of regions. In fact, the effectiveness and feasibility of quarantines -- other than in hospital settings -- is questioned.

The report places most emphasis on hand-washing as the first line of defense. That can be more effectively enforced by teams of stern grandmothers than rifle-toting soldiers.

A military-backed quarantine was not the only option mentioned by Bush. But it attracted the most attention because of its outrageousness. It's time to take a step back before taking several steps forward.

Concerns about a pandemic center on particularly deadly avian flu cases that have sprung up in Asia in the last couple of years. Human-to-human transmission hasn't been confirmed, but is feared because of the constant mutation of flu viruses. Only a little over 100 people have contracted this avian flu. However, more than half of those confirmed with the disease, mostly poultry workers, have died.

[NNN0LHI]

32. Military already has its own avian flu vaccine

http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=32221

Military taking steps to guard against avian flu

<snip>The Defense Department, which does not have to undergo the same Food and Drug Administration testing system, already has an experimental vaccine and has begun its own testing, according to Marianne Coates, a defense department health official.

She said Pentagon officials are working to eventually stockpile between 2 million and 20 million doses of the vaccine for military use. Winkenwerder said that would only be used in the event of an outbreak.

While unusual for humans to contract the avian flu, the virus seems to be spread through exposure to sick birds, bird feces, uncooked poultry and contaminated surfaces. The virus has killed or forced the destruction of tens of millions of chickens, ducks and geese across Asia and might have been discovered in birds in Turkey over the weekend.

DOD ordered combatant commands to develop emergency plans akin to those developed when Pacific Command faced the occurrence of severe acute respiratory syndrome, or SARS, in 2003.