There will be no "President Hastert."

[Pab Sungenis]

Quite simply, if it looks like both Cheney and Chimpy are going down, we're going to see an Agnew situation take place.

In 1973, VP Agnew was under investigation, facing indictment, on a number of charges. Odds are good that he might have stayed in office and tried to fight them, if it weren't for that pesky Watergate thing.

The higher-ups in the Republican Party knew the Chief was going down sooner or later, and they couldn't take a chance on Agnew also going down, and throwing the Presidency, perhaps, into the hands of Democrat Carl Albert. So, Agnew was pushed to resign, making room for Gerry Ford to become Vice-President, and then President.

The same thing will happen if it looks like * is going down, but for slightly different reasons. (1) Hastert isn't popular enough to win in his own right, and they need to keep the Presidency in 2008. (2) Hastert isn't as big a supporter of the whole PNAC project as the current admin is, and might pose a risk to it.

So, my prediction is that if it looks bad for the Chimporer, we'll see a few late-night visits to the Naval Observatory. Days later, citing health concerns, Cheney will quietly resign, and the next day * will tout out his nominee for VP: Weezy Rice.

It would be hard to pass up. Instant history, for one, so his Presidency would be remembered for something other than war and corruption. First black VP, first woman VP. And same for President when Chimpy goes down.

So PNAC has one of its biggest adherents in the Oval Office, possibly, until at least 2012, in their minds.

Watch Cheney. News reports about his worsening health will be the first "sign" that they're going down.

[SammyBlue]

1. Dr. Gap as president?

What an abyssal thought. Though, your logic is impecible. Only time will tell.

[LincolnMcGrath]

2. Scary!

Also

any

attempt to discuss Ms. Rice would be answered with "why do you hate Black Females?"

[tk2kewl]

8. but the ones who do hate black females will lead the charge

democrats who just hate incompetent war mongers can stay out of it and let them eat themselves

[FreedomAngel82]

16. Yep

Or they can put up black females in Congress such as Tubb-Jones, Waters, McKinney etc. I'd love to see the three of them go up against Rice. :popcorn:

[mike_c]

3. Condi....

She's the key to keeping the neocons in power in 2008.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

4. Do you think Rice would be content to be a caretaker?

After all, that's what Ford was-before he was catapulted into the VP chair, he wasn't a serious contender for the '76 nomination. He was chosen as one who wouldn't rock the boat and would still toe the party line. I remember at the time commentators saying he would be a good caretaker president.

[tk2kewl]

5. you had me until rice

i don't think the repukes-at-large would be for it, and the neocons might not be all that happy with her either... hasn't she been warning them off of syria?

[truebrit71]

7. She wouldn't make it past confirmation..

...no way...

[immoderate]

25. Rice is part of the corrupt administration.

She's one of the reasons they will go down, if they do. During confirmation hearings they can parade all her lies past the committees. Let them try to post a neocon. No sale!

--IMM

[Fridays Child]

6. As much as he has relied on Condi, my gut tells me that B*sh will...

...not invite her to sit at the very front of the old boy political bus.

[truebrit71]

9. Yup. Wrong sex and wrong colour.

Will not happen this way...I guarantee it.

[leeroysphitz]

24. Right...

All the repuke talk-bots, Limbaugh, Bennet, Savage etc... can barely (if at all) contain their naked racism as it is. The average repuke AKA Jethro six-pack would loose his white bread mind.

[FreedomAngel82]

17. I don't know myself

You get mixed signals with them. Sometimes I feel as though Bush only uses her to get his way so they can spout the "why do you hate women/blacks?" to get their way (see Brown). You get the sense though that Condi really likes Bush and more then just her boss.

[TrogL]

23. He'd appoint somebody he thinks really likes him

Like Barney

I swear that dog is the most qualified person in the WH right now.

[FSogol]

10. Bur remember what happened next?

Republicans stayed home during the next elections and democrats voted in droves.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

11. It may give Anne Rice some plot ideas for a sequel

to The Queen Of The Damned.

[me b zola]

12. There is a possibility that rice could be indicted

With the investigation going deep as is being reported, it is possible that almost no one will be untouched by the indictments :)



edited to say: I do agree with your assessment, I'm just prepared for someone to be named who appears to be outside of the administration but who will of course carry out their agenda.

[FreedomAngel82]

18. I'd see that more plausable then Rice

I think so too. I think Rice would be too tarnished by all of this. They'll get some unknown in Congress or a state level person to be their next Bush. Someone who at first won't have a paper trail and who people will slowly start to like but then you read more about them and they'll be just as bad and dejuvu all over again.

[SoCalDem]

13. Won't happen.. No matter how "angry" the Bush'ites are at him,

they will not impeach him.. To begin with it would be a horrible precedent to continue. Our democracy is damaged enough without successive presidents getting impeached. It would just keep happening if it was that "easy"... The lesson we must learn from the Clinton impeachment, is that it was a freakishly obsessed congress that impeached him for purely personal reasons..

I usually resist the urge to "play nice", but in this case, Bush should NOT be impeached. I would rather his transgressions become public, and that he be forced to wear them 'round his neck forever, like the albatross they are.. Impeachment articles coming from the house, would be all but impossible, and he would surely be "saved" by the senators (like Clinton was)..

Whoever ends up the next president, would just be another cog in the 'revenge machine'...and would have a hard time getting anything done.

I am assuming that because we so desperately NEED a democratic president, that we will get one...but with voting irregularities unsolved, we could still end up with republican 'misleadership'..

I think Cheney will have to be carried out feet first. He's not resigning.. This is the culmination of a lifetime's 'work', and he's not going quietly..


These freaks are on a mission from god,(at least *² is) There will be no resignation..and there will be no impeachment..

[KittyWampus]

20. Well Put, I'd Prefer "Truth and Reconciliation Hearings" like S.Africa

[FreedomAngel82]

21. Wouldn't it be funny

if it was the republicans who impeached Bush? LOL. I would like that one.

[SoCalDem]

26. Since they are the majority, it would HAVE to be them

and they are just utilizing "faux anger"..Deep down they love the *²-cheney

[serryjw]

14. I require MY President to have a "neck"

If I went out to the streets of Denver and asked 100 people who was
Hastert; I would be surprised if 10% knew

[FreedomAngel82]

15. Another thing with Hasert

Isn't he under investigation's too? I remember reading a story about him in Vanity Fair from Sibel Edmonds. I can't remember the details now but I think I read about it on RawStory. Cheney is already backing away from Bush though. In a recent press conference instead of being near him Cheney was pretty far away. So something is going on. I definitley think they will at least try to find away to get rid of Cheney.

[truebrit71]

19. Hastert has an issue relating to foreign donations I believe...

...specifically from Turkey.

He himself may be in need of legal counsel before too long....

[FreedomAngel82]

22. That's it

I knew it was something with money but couldn't remember who it was with. He tried to protect some people?

[truebrit71]

28. Nope. IIRC it was that he did some folks a few favours...

...and they made a series of large donations..in small, unreportable amounts...Basically he tried doing an end-run around campaign finance laws and may well have got his over-sized hand stuck in the cookie jar...

[bigscott]

27. Why not impeach *??

Do you really think IF we elect a Dem/Progressive the GOP would not do everything in it's power to trash him/her? I am not sure we SHOULD impeach him but the man is so shameless and evil that even IF we PROVE he lied about the war (and oh, so many other things), do you really think he would CARE?? :rofl: Do you really think he would RESIGN?? Jumpin Jesus, do you think he would even FIRE anyone?? :rofl: He is a spoiled little rich boy who would smirk that smirk and laugh all the way to the WH. He has no shame. PLEASE tell me how we can expose his evil lies? Please tell me how to get this across to the 33% who still support him? PLEASE! :cry:

[leveymg]

29. Looks Like President Ted Stevens (Pres pro tem of Senate)

Hastert has another problem that knocks him out of the running. He also is being investigated for taking bribes from the Turkish gov't.

So, what then is the line of succession? See, below:

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0101032.html
The Presidential Succession Act of 1947, signed by President Harry Truman, changed the order again to what it is today. The cabinet members are ordered in the line of succession according to the date their offices were established.

Prior to the ratification of the 25th Amendment in 1967, there was no provision for filling a vacancy in the vice presidency. When a president died in office, the vice president succeeded him, and the vice presidency then remained vacant. The first vice president to take office under the new procedure was Gerald Ford, who was nominated by Nixon on Oct. 12, 1973, and confirmed by Congress the following Dec. 6.

The Vice President Richard Cheney
Speaker of the House John Dennis Hastert
President pro tempore of the Senate1 Ted Stevens
Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice
Secretary of the Treasury John Snow
Secretary of Defense Donald H. Rumsfeld
Attorney General Alberto Gonzales
Secretary of the Interior Gale A. Norton
Secretary of Agriculture Mike Johanns
Secretary of Commerce Carlos Gutierrez2
Secretary of Labor Elaine Chao3
Secretary of Health and Human Services Mike Leavitt
Secretary of Housing and Urban Development Alphonso Jackson
Secretary of Transportation Norman Yoshio Mineta
Secretary of Energy Samuel Bodman
Secretary of Education Margaret Spellings
Secretary of Veterans Affairs Jim Nicholson
Secretary of Homeland Security4 Michael Chertoff
NOTE: An official cannot succeed to the Presidency unless that person meets the Constitutional requirements.
1. The president pro tempore presides over the Senate when the vice president is absent. By tradition the position is held by the senior member of the majority party.
2. Carlos Gutierrez was born in Cuba and is ineligible.
3. Elaine Chao was born in Taiwan and is ineligible.
4. In late July 2005, the Senate passed a bill moving the Homeland Security secretary to number 8 on the list. The bill is awaiting House approval.

[cascadiance]

32. Did Ford have a VP or didn't he?...

Someone else mentioned in another thread that Rockefeller was named his VP, though I didn't remember him as being such, I also didn't remember that he WASN'T VP either...

I guess the key is what happens when the president resigns. Then these rules take effect if it is as you say, and there is no VP in this case. I guess a different set of rules apply when a VP resigns and the sitting president then can nominate someone else to take his place, which I guess would be the distinction to Nixon appointing Ford to replace Agnew, versus Ford "ascending" to the presidency on this rule and perhaps not having the authority to name a new VP in that instance.

If this is the case, then consider the following:

If it looks imminent that there is enough evidence out there to impeach this whole gang, and we have a whole set of indictments, etc. coming out, the Republicans in congress might be concerned about their own future and losing congress in 2006 if they don't act immediately.

It could generate the "Dick Murphy syndrome" that we just had in San Diego, where it looked to be obvious to Murphy and his people that if he didn't resign, that he would get forced out of office with a recall, that was starting to organize at the time he resigned shortly after. By him resigning, the Republicans had a better chance of keeping controlling the elections and keeping Donna Frye from taking over than allowing a recall election to occur, where a simple plurality would elect her, rather than a mandated runoff that we have now between her and Sanders.

Republicans will probably want to try and control the executive in any way they can. What this means is that they cannot leave in as president and vice president two people that can both be impeached, which they have now with Bush and Cheney. Bush resigning puts Cheney in charge with a "vacant VP slot". Cheney resigning would allow Bush to do the Agnew manouevre as you said, and get someone else "unimpeachable" in as president. The key question there is, who is unimpeachable that they would be willing to put in power? I don't think that's Hastert, I don't think it's Rice either, for the reasons mentioned here. Guliani?

The Republicans have to be thinking about this, because even if they can keep their own party from embarking on an impeachment, they won't be able to stop it if the Dems take over congress in 2006. It WILL happen then if they do, and I'm guessing the strategy for Dems now is not necessarily to get a final judgement on getting an actual impeachment done now before the elections, but to have enough evidence, bad publicity, etc. to make all of America feel that there should be, which should also help propel them to take over the House, if not also the Senate in 2006 on promises that they will deliver justice at that time. If that sort of writing is on the wall, the Republicans might try to do some pre-emptive strategies first, like you said, perhaps have Cheney resign.

I wonder what the rules are though that if Bush is made a target for impeachment in some way, if there's anything that might restrict him from appointing a new VP if he's under legal scrutiny at that point. Anyone know if there are any laws in this regard? Nixon obviously was under suspicion, but perhaps not charged yet when he did the manouevre to bring in Ford. Also, what was Ford's position at the time he was elevated to the presidency? Was there a restriction on who Nixon could consider as Agnew's replacement at the time (that also might bind Bush this time so that he can't choose an unimpeachable person to replace Cheney)?

If both Bush and Cheney are impeached and Hastert is moved to the presidency... A Democratic House-lead impeachment of Hastert for the bribery stuff after 2006 elections then could put Pelosi in charge if the VP slot had to remain vacated.

[leveymg]

33. Yes, Rockie was Ford's VP for a year

until Ford was pressured by Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld, acting on behalf of the GOP's right-wing, to dump him before the 1976 elections. Ford's action alienated many in the Party's moderate wing, and he was defeated by Jimmy Carter.

Dick and Rummy and have been mucking things up for the Republicans for decades.

http://ap.grolier.com/article?assetid=0334740-00&templatename=/article/article.html
In August 1974, Pres. Gerald Ford nominated to be vice president of the United States. After extended Congressional inquiries into his financial resources, he was confirmed by a vote of 287 to 128 in the House and 90 to 7 in the Senate. He was sworn in as the 41st vice president on Dec. 19, 1974.

Vice President Rockefeller proved to be a loyal and faithful subordinate. President Ford named him to head the domestic council and to be chairman of the president's commission on the Central Intelligence Agency. He also was designated to serve on several other boards and commissions. He was never fully accepted by the Republican conservative wing during his term, and in November 1975, he announced that he was removing himself from consideration as a possible running mate for President Ford in 1976. After leaving office he returned to New York and his private pursuits in business, politics, and the arts.

[marions ghost]

30. Impeachment would be appropriate

that's why we have to advocate it even though it probably wouldn't remove him from office. It sends a message. There's really no other way to censure a president.

[Terran]

31. They'll never put Rice in that position

or any other woman or person of color. It would be instant death to the vast majority of Republicans who, even if they aren't 100% out and out racists, will NEVER accept an African American, and will *probably* never accept a woman as president. Just not gonna happen. They'll take Hastert over her any day.