If Rove and Scooter are indicted will * Pardon them?

[WI_DEM]

How likely do you think that if indictments come out of Plame--inluding Rove, Scooter--and even Ari that Bush will use his pardon power?

[SammyBlue]

1. The body can't survive without the brain

A Roveless Junior means a politically dead junior. He needs Rove like a junkie needs heroin.

Libby gets thrown to the wolves, Turd Blossom stays.

[Selteri]

2. He might wait until the last days he can, but this is a culture of

corruption. NT

[Birthmark]

3. Maybe.

But if he does, he's ruined as a President. Republicans will be swept from office in 2006 in sufficient numbers to guarantee Democratic control of both Houses of Congress. That, in turn, will just about guarantee his own impeachment and removal from office.

If there's one thing Bush is about, it's protecting his ass above all else.

[MsUnderstood]

13. he can wait til after the 2006 elections to pardon them

He knows how to win an election (by hook or by crook) and will not do anything to jeapordize his minions...er...republican congressmen/senators.

As soon as elections passed though, he will pardon them quietly on a Friday night and announce a terra alert on Monday to cover it up.

[JoZbean]

4. I voted no.

He's so arrogrant, he's certain he can operate the WH alone now. And besides, he can always call on Rove to tell him what to do, even behind bars, and God, don't I hope that's where he spends a few years.

[napi21]

5. I said yes, but I have a question.

Nixon only pardoned some of those convinted suring watergate, but some went to jail. Anyone remember how he seemed to decide who to save?

[Taverner]

22. Yes

Whoever ratted him out, just a little, was on the chopping block. Colson and Dean were two who got the shaft.

[napi21]

26. But didn't that weird one with the mustache who now has a talk show

go to jail too? Sorry, I can't remember his name, but he's a damn weasel.

[abbiehoff]

6. I think he absolutely will.

He never seems concerned about appearances. He can just say they aren't really guilty of anything, and that it was all a Democratic conspiracy to try to discredit his administration. Repeat the lie. Repeat the lie. Repeat the lie.
See, now it's true.

[EmperorHasNoClothes]

7. Nope

Can you say, "scapegoat?"

[acmejack]

8. It's a family tradition!

Persecute the innocent and pardon the connected.

[TahitiNut]

9. Yes. These people believe in Barnum's aphorism.

They TRULY believe they can fool some of the people all of the time ... and that's all they need: some of the people. There's no over-estimating the hubris of this regime. "The people will believe what we tell them to believe," is their common arrogance. They don't give a shit about all of the people - 49% is more than enough for them.

[daleo]

10. I think he will pardon them

I think he cares more about his post-presidency than his presidency now. John Ellis Bush won't be happy about it though.

[ET Awful]

11. They can't be pardoned unless they've been convicted.

An indictment isn't a conviction.

[WI_DEM]

12. Ford pardoned Nixon and he wasn't convicted of anything

[ET Awful]

14. If there's no conviction, there's nothing to pardon.

A pardon is, for all intents and purposes, serves to erase a criminal conviction. Absent a conviction, there is nothing to pardon.

[Taverner]

23. Ford pardoned Nixon on "all current and future crimes"

really sneaky

[ET Awful]

24. That's my point, the fact remains, despite that "pardon"

it has no effect unless a conviction for a crime is obtained. Without a conviction, a pardon means nothing.

[TahitiNut]

15. Ford pardoned Nixon who was neither indicted nor convicted.

:shrug: I can only conclude that a pardon can be granted before indictment.

[ET Awful]

16. Once again, there is nothing to pardon. A pardon sets aside a conviction

without a conviction, there's nothing to pardon.

Any "pardon" absent a conviction is purely cosmetic.

[TahitiNut]

17. Read ...

http://web.archive.org/web/20020307195907/politicalscience.wadsworth.com/ducat/page18.html

The relevant citation is ...
MURPHY V. FORD
United States District Court, Western Dist. of Michigan, 1975
390 F.Supp. 1372

The fact that Mr. Nixon had been neither indicted nor convicted of an offense against the United States does not affect the validity of the pardon. Ex parte Garland, 4 Wall. (71 U.S.) 333, 18 L.Ed. 366 (1867). In that case the Supreme Court considered the nature of the President's Pardoning Power, and the effect of a Presidential pardon. Mr. Justice Field, speaking for the court, said that the Pardoning Power is "unlimited," except in cases of impeachment. " extends to every offense known to the law, and may be exercised at any time after its commission, either before legal proceedings are taken, or during their pendency, or after conviction and judgment. * * * The benign prerogative of mercy reposed in cannot be fettered by any legislative restrictions.
"Such being the case, the inquiry arises as to the effect and operation of a pardon, and on this point all the authorities concur. A pardon reaches both the punish-ment prescribed for the offense and the guilt of the offender; and when the pardon is full, it releases the punishment and blots Out of existence the guilt. * * * If granted before conviction, it prevents any of the penalties and disabilities consequent from conviction from attaching.

[ET Awful]

19. Once again, absent a conviction, you are simply pardoning thin air.

There is nothing to pardon without a conviction. If you follow the Constitutional presumption of innocent until proven guilty, there is no guilt until such is proven in a court of law, and thus nothing to pardon.

Absent a conviction, a pardon is, as I said, purely cosmetic.

[Name removed]

20. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MidwestTransplant]

18. Depends on what the indictments are for.

I don't think he would pardon until a conviction in any event.

[Kahuna]

21. Not only will he pardon them, the trial like Ken Lay's eventual trial..

will be timed to coinside with the expiration of bush's term in office. They will spend maybe three months in stripes.

[shadowknows69]

25. If he does

and our government is going to advocate harboring known traitors then it's time for torches and pitchforks