Do NOT buy into the bird flu thing - Here is one good reason

[Maraya1969]

They say there are only 10 million "treatments" for the thing and that if * declared an emergency to REMOVE THE PATENT then they would have enough for everyone. Since he has already screwed things up so bad I really don't think he would take such a chance as not allowing enough treatments for the US,

Also a microbe doesn't just attack every. Even encephalitis is manifested as a bad flu in most healthy adults. So just keep yourself healthy, stock up on the Vitamin C and stop worrying.


"Illnesses, hover constantly above us, their seed blown by the winds, but they do not set in the terrain unless the terrain is ready to receive them."---Claude Bernard.

Just as plants need the proper type of soil to grow and thrive so does a bug that gets into a body. Keep the body healthy and the bug will just go away.

And I personally do not think anyone should believe that their immune system is less that adequate. So much of it is beliefs and attitude.

[niyad]

1. very good post. I, for one, choose not to worry about bird flu--I am a

healer myself, and know well that attitude is everything.

[amitten]

2. I agree

When I'm happy, I never get sick. When I'm sad, I get sick easily. I've never had a flu shot, and I've only had the flu once.

[FreedomAngel82]

4. My way of going about this is

just get a shot if my doctor makes the suggestion since I'm a high risk patient (had open-heart surgery). I'm mostly very healthy and don't get sick, but when I do it hits hard. I got a flu shot last year and didn't get anything. Last time I was really sick was in 2002.

[Mabus]

3. Didn't we already go through this with West Nile Virus?

At first it sounded like WNV was going to have people dropping dead all over the place too. I've heard people say (sorry no citations) that most people who have been infected weren't aware they had contracted it, instead, they thought they had a mild cold. (Your mentioning encephalitis reminded me of WNV.)

Before this it was Killer Bees, Swine Flu and outbreaks of BSE that were going to kill us.

[FreedomAngel82]

6. Don't forget though

the end times are coming!!!!! :eyes: I figure I'm going to die someday. I can just take care of myself the best way I can and if I die then I'm dead. I don't worry about stuff too much unless it's school work or whatever. ;) If it's something I can't control there's no sense in worrying. Just give the worry to God or whatever/whomever you believe in. No sense in getting stressed out for nothing over things you can't control.

[Maraya1969]

24. Don't forget Monkey Pox! Remember that one from ground hogs

or some type of rodent that they were selling in the pet stores?

[Mabus]

25. LOL

Right after I posted last night my husband said, "did you mention Monkey Pox?" I don't know why I can never remember Monkey Pox which, according to hubby, was related to prairie dogs.

on edit: also hantavirus, from rodents in the Southwest. We really should make a list of these somewhere.

[Lex]

28. Don't forget SARS!

We were all going to die to that of that last year . . . or was it the year before?

[progressivebydesign]

5. I'm not being an ostrich about this.. but I tend to agree with you

I have never had the flu. Never had a flu shot. My Mom lived thru the Hong Kong flu in the 60's, and no one around her caught it. I get a cold once every year or two, usually every other year. It's usually mild. I don't get lingering coughs from it or other afteraffects. I worry about my older relatives, of course. I'm not saying the bird flu does not exist, obviously it does.. but it has only infected people from their birds so far. It has not mutated to human to human. I worry that the media is using salicious headlines and half information to sensationalize something that needs to be dealt with thoroughly and seriously. The medical experts I have been reading have said that it has not mutated and it is not a foregone conclusion that it will. AND.. they say that any type of quarantine will be voluntary, as in asking folks to stay home out of the public if it is going around them. Also, they say that our medical delivery and technology is light years from where it was in 1918 when people routinely died of childbirth and dental infections. I"m in a wait and see mode on this. No sense getting in a blather about it now, as I neither own a drug company, nor own any fowl, nor make any policy decisions. I just try to stay healthy... that's what I can do.

[Why Syzygy]

7. Thanks.

And maybe don't buy any birds from Asia.

[democracyindanger]

8. "Keep the body healthy and the bug will just go away."

Worst. Piece. Of Advice. Ever.

But hey, maybe those religious nuts who pray instead of calling an ambulance have a point.

[Maraya1969]

27. OK maybe not 100% but ask yourself why some people get the

flu every year and others never do? I am not a religious nut but I believe that the body protects itself and heals itself.

How many times has your dog or cat gotten a serious lung infection? And they eat and roll around in the most disgusting stuff. A dog that is abandoned and forced to eat rotting food will end up with parasites that will make him sick and more susceptible to illness. But in general they don't worry about illness and they don't get sick as often as us humans.

Then again, if you take an animal and stuff it is a laboratory in a cage with no interaction with humans or other animals it is probably going to get sick no matter what is done to them.

There was an interesting article about a study using rabbits, (maybe someone knows where it is). The rabbits got sick as they were supposed to except one group. They then found that the "student"(not sure) who was caring for that group of rabbits would hold them and pet them and give them attention. The others who were just stuck in the cages got sick.

[meow mix]

9. so did anyone remember to tell the millions of DEAD birds?

dead, as in no longer living. *cry*

[drfresh]

10. Well, not quite that simple

They say there are only 10 million "treatments" for the thing and that if * declared an emergency to REMOVE THE PATENT then they would have enough for everyone. Since he has already screwed things up so bad I really don't think he would take such a chance as not allowing enough treatments for the US

Removing the patent at the sign of an outbreak would be too little too late. From what I've gathered, the manufacture of Tamiflu is a complex process that couldn't be duplicated elsewhere quicky. And currently it would take something like 10 years at 100% production to make enough treatment to cover 20% of the world population.

Considering that the Spanish Flu spread across 6 continents in a matter of weeks, it wouldn't do much good. But good call on the vitamin C ... chicken soup couldn't hurt either!

[Dangerously Amused]

12. Um...

Chicken soup... for the Bird Flu?

You sure that's such a good idea...?

[nadinbrzezinski]

15. Harvard ran a study some years back

they found it does have a chemical that helps to unstuff your nose... and the temperature should have killed teh virus anywah... viruses are very fragile.

[jbnow]

20. Good one.

Whose side would the chicken be on?

[Maraya1969]

30. I wonder who spread the news that Tamiflu is complex and couldn't'

be duplicated? It could be duplicated if the formula was made available. I think that is just more crap information to allow the pharmaceutical company to keep its patent.

Another thing. How come every year the powers that be come up with a new flu shot to cover the new "mutations" yet they can't find vaccines for other illnesses because they are too complex.

I don't trust the FDA. I think they are in bed with the pharmaceutical companies and much of what they say is to protect business not people.

[Rainscents]

11. My take on this Avion Flu, since it's not going to happen this winter

at least, we don't have evidence of it, however, is there a flu that will be here for this winter season? No one is talking about possiblity of what flu type A or B this winter? I was at Fred Meyer yesterday and I asked pharmacy, what type of flu shots they were giving out this year? She did say, shot will protect from both A and B.

[readmoreoften]

32. Avian flu? Avion flu? What about the AVON flu and the EVIAN flu!!!

The vector of the Avon flu is a nice lady from your neighborhood who travels door to door selling Bonnie Bell 10-0-6 Lotion. The Evian flu is accidentally contracted at many gourmet grocery stores and fine restaurants everywhere.

Now if only there were a WALMART flu, we might be able to get this nation back on track.

[Maraya1969]

36. What a wonderful concept. The "Walmart" flu!

[BrklynLiberal]

13. I agree that this is another form of fear mongering on the part of BushCo.

They will take even the smallest possiblity of a dangerous mole hill and turn it into mountain in order to keep the sheeple under their proverbial thumb.
Use your common sense, but don't let these morons use this as another manipulative tool as they have the other "terror alerts". It will just be another excuse to deny us our rights, our privacy, our freedoms, and anything else they can get away with.

Think military quarantines all over the country...and then martial law to enforce them! That should scare some sense into you.

[Mojorabbit]

16. Check this site

which collects bird flu news articles from around the world. The USA is not the center of the universe. Every country in the world is worried about this and preparing. It might not happen this year or next year but then again it might. If it does happen this year do you have enough food and water to last six months of quarantine? No need to unnecessarily panic but nothing wrong with preparing for the worst then relaxing.
http://www.iflu.org/

[nadinbrzezinski]

14. So the World Health Organizatiin is in their pocket too?

WOW, global warming, head on sand for the right, bird flu a real threat (even if bush is doing what he wants to push his agenda with it) head in sand for the left....

There is this thing called science, heard of it? And in this case it is solid...

[I_Make_Mistakes]

17. I am not medically savvy, but in general (not the bird flu, due to

it's relative seriousness) don't we build immunity with every exposure to the different flu strains (whether we become sick or not)? If one is not immuno compromised or at risk for other reasons, would it not be better to come in contact with the viruses? To build immunity?

That is why I avoid the shot, and probably had the flu (once, maybe twice in 45 years. I am honestly asking, and not trying to be a smart butt.

[nadinbrzezinski]

18. The Flu is an RNA based flu

single strain instead of the double helix

It changes every year, that is why some years it is worst than others

The problem with this particular one is that the HSN1 we don't have immunity... and we have modern travel and all that, so it will travel fast and spread

There are ways of handling this... SARS and TORONTO showed you a window, they found the patients who got infected and isolated them. Problem with the flu, (the regular kind) is that you show illness well after you are infectious, so finding the ever so popular patient zero will be hard. (and why bush's response is stupid)

Now you build immunity to EACH strain.

As to the shot, if you are in the high risk group it is a good idea, otherwise leave them for us... but for the Avian flu, until they have a sample of the flu, they cannot make the vaccine, they need the material... and if this becomes what they have worst cased, they cannot produce the vaccine fast enough, hence why they are talking of tamiflu, which has to be taken within the first 48 hours

My background, biology courses and I used to be medic, far from an expert... this is what I have gleamed from readying papers over the years... this is what is considered an emerging threat and quite honestly we have a pandemic of this style every hundred years or so (the historian in me)

The Spanish flu was the first one to go international.

The science is there, people need to stop hiding their heads in the sand. OTOH this jump from birds to humans many happen this year, or fifty years from now. So it is kind of one of those tings you prepare for, if you are prudent, and hope it never happens.

Hope this helps

;-)

But the chicken little they are trying to scare us is just irresponsible... that does not mean be scared out of your wits.

Oh and like every year, wash hands, and if yuo are sick, stay home... personal hygiene is the best thing you can do

[I_Make_Mistakes]

21. I agree. I remember, when I had mono I could sell my blood in

1978 for $80/pint (they would take out the mono anti bodies for hospital bound mono patients). I am somewhat Immuno compromised (chronic Lyme disease, and just Fri. diagnosed with viral pericardititis). It really stinks, because, I had my ankle basically reconstructed in July, still in PT and can't go back till after I am cleared Monday by a heart specialist.

I pretty much have been exposed to so many things, I think my blood is getting strong for something coming up. I know it sounds weird, but you would be shocked at my medical history.

[Maraya1969]

35. The answer is "Yes" you are right. That is why children "catch"

things easier that adults. And that is why some people are very upset about the whole sanitizing thing that is going on now. If you keep a child in a completely sanitized environment while they grow up what is going to happen to that child when they are finally exposed to all the microbes that you cleaned away with "germ killer" cleaners?

When I was a kid my mother didn't sanitize the house all the time. We ate our share of dirt. And I don't get the flu or other viruses easily as an adult.

[Dogmudgeon]

19. Bush must be drugging the nation's water

It's the only thing I can think of that can account for some of the stupidity shown recently by some of the DUers regarding the flu.

It's way past my bedtime, and I'm half asleep. I'm not quite sure of what I'm writing. But I have strong convictions about this topic, and I hope you'll consider my reasons for them.

Imagine, if you will, the folks on the Gay/Lesbian/etc forum all complaining that AIDS is just a way to manipulate the Gay population into submission; how when they're taking their vitamin C, meditating, or "being happy", they never get AIDS. And faith in their immune system capability would be strong.

Well, a few Gays took that route back in the late 1970s, and most of them died. The main portion of the G/L/B/T/etc community took aggressive, informed action and stopped the progress of the epidemic cold -- until the IV drug users became the active AIDS vector.

Maybe we're all just overloaded on anxiety. It's natural to shut down against too much bad news. But in the case of communicable diseases, it makes no sense. There are literally dozens of "empowering" steps anyone can take to reduce their susceptibility to Bird Flu, or any other viral disease. Some of them are, indeed, things like keeping stress low and eating a healthy diet. Handwashing is also an effective way to reduce flu transmission.

In addition, we should be kicking George Bush's phony cowboy ass over this. The only reason why we can't have half a billion doses of vaccine stockpiled within a few weeks of the initial outbreaks is because the drug companies want to force laws into effect that prevents them from being sued for any reason whatsoever. Anti-virals also exist that can reduce almost any case of Influenza A (the strong, nasty flu of which Bird Flu is a sub-type) and save lives. (Tamiflu is not all that effective; Symmetrel (amantadine) is much better, but it's a generic.)

If we can commit to a war based on some creative lies, we can commit to a public health system that is capable of slowing or stopping an outbreak of contagious disease.

Believe me, you don't want to get the Type A flu. It's hell on earth. I had it in 1990, and it wasn't an H5N1 variant like the current Bird Flu, but a plain-vanilla H1N1. It is NOT a mild flu like most people get every 2-5 years. I had a high fever, delerium, severe body pains, hallucinations, profuse sweating, and felt like I was dying. I lost over 10% of my body weight in three or four days. In fact, I nearly did die, since I lived alone and didn't think I was that sick, and no one was there to pour me into a car or ambulance and cart my sorry ass to an emergency room.

Ladies and Germs, I beg you to look behind MY sarcasm and YOUR cynicism and see what is going on. As global warming, factory farming of poultry, poor third-world biosurveillance and American public health irresponsibility pile up one on the other, the rate of viral polymorphism -- mutation -- is accelerating rapidly.

The proper response to this threat is neither fear nor paranoia, but education -- and holding our politicians' and medical capitalists' feet to the fire. Cynicism and wishful thinking will only assuage the irritated mind. Fear and paralysis will give us all of the pain and not spare us at all.

Please! Do not ignore this health issue! Flu pandemics are impossible to completely avoid, but they can be mitigated. It does not matter whether we are talking about H5N1 Avian, or H1N7 Equine, or non-influenzae like SARS or hemorrhagic fevers or even prion diseases. Any given potential disease pandemic can turn out to be Da Bomb or The Dud, but if we ignore them, one of them will eventually hit, and hit hard.

The control and eventual elimination of contagious diseases begins with individuals becoming educated and taking active steps to promote the health of their communities. Cynicism, however, can kill. Thirty minutes' reading up on flu control and prevention is a far more effective -- and anxiety-reducing -- way to make sure pandemics remain the stuff of sci-fi rather than real-life dread, sickness, and grief.

--p!

[theshadow]

39. Memories are short.

I was 13 when Hong Kong Flu hit the world in 1968. That was a Type A flu. My parents were scared out of their minds. I was a young, healthy kid and just as you described: high fever, delirium, etc. It killed 34,000 in the US, a "low" number because it had a slight relationship to a previous strain so there was some immunity. The Avian flu is a totally new type for which there's no immunity, which is why the alarms are ringing at CDC and WHO. They remember the 1918 pandemic; same scenario.

Nice job explaining why this is not a joke.

[Divernan]

22. How can you possibly believe Bush would not screw this up!?!?

"Since he has already screwed things up so bad, I really don't think he would take such a chance as not allowing enough treatments for the US."

Here's how the real world works. The wealthy and high level elected officials have access to excellent medical treatment, and are in line ahead of the rest of us.
Example: In the Pennsylvania Legislature, free flue shots have always been provided to employees and the Senators and Representatives. UNTIL the year there was a shortage. A memo went out from the Nurses' Office notifying the Senators and the Representatives that THEY could come in for their shots, but there would be none for employees until after all the elected politicians got THEIR shots. Now we're talking many people in their mid-30's to early 50's. They were placed ahead of ALL employees, even those at high risk for flu for age and health reasons. After outraged protests from Democratic staff, an amended memo went out including high risk employees in the first group to get shots.

My point is that Bush and his cronies will be sure to get shots, no matter HOW limited the supply. And your philosophy that since
Bush has already screwed up things so much, now he'll QUIT screwing up, is fatuous to the extreme! He has continued to make all kinds of promotions and appointments of his political crony hacks and their friends and relations, in spite of the FEMA Brown debacle.

Do some reading on the Spanish flu pandemic immediately after World War I. This is not a GOP scare story - although they will take advantage of such a disaster as they always do. When it comes to making profit out of pain, the GOP are the Masters of Disaster. Health departments in many sophisticated industrialized countries have been preparingfor years for the eventuality of a pandemic. It's like the major hurricane hitting New Orleans, the probabilities increased with time, but no one could predict exactly which year it would hit.

[alarimer]

23. There is a good article in National Geographic this month

The main concern is if it becomes transmissable from human to human. So far it has not. It is bird-human right now. The reason for the concern is that when people do get it, most of them die. So there is reason for concern but it is not necessary to panic. Yet. The 1918 flu is thought to have come from birds also.
They are testing bird populations right now and trying to stop it there but because places like Viet Nam have so many birds like chickens (which die from the disease) and ducks (which only carry it) it is a great concern.

[Norquist Nemesis]

29. Yes. And that string of dead microbiologists sure would've

come in handy if it actually does happen.

[knitter4democracy]

34. Yes, it has.

There are several cases in which they cannot find any contact with birds but only infected humans. The key is that it's not easily transmissible yet but still only passing to caregivers (a doctor, a couple of nurses, family members). The researchers are waiting for it to pass to someone already infected with another version of the virus that passes more easily--and no one knows when that will happen.

[LynneSin]

26. I'm still paranoid the killer bees are coming to get me

Please don't add this to my fears

:sarcasm:

[MuseRider]

31. Lol, me too! n/t

[knitter4democracy]

33. I'm sick of this.

Just because the MSM is hyping it doesn't mean it's not something to be concerned about. The medical community has been very, very scared for years about the H5N1 mutating into an easily transmissible virus that somehow keeps its lethal kick. That's why there are daily alerts to doctors and researchers from all over the world--not to scare the rest of the country, not to keep us under the thumb of anyone, only to keep the medical community on their toes and looking out for it.

My husband is an internist and has been scared of this for years. He actually stays up nights trying to figure out how to use the meager resources we have in our area to make sure patients stay as healthy as possible and that we lose as few as possible.

Have you ever seen someone die from influenza? My husband has--was the doc running the code on several. Have you ever seen just how badly they can suffer, just how many resources they use from doctors to nurses to an ICU bed to expensive meds?

Yes, keep healthy. Do whatever it takes to stay as healthy as possible, but don't dismiss something this bad just because you think it's some scare tactic. The strain they're watching killed millions in 1918 and swept around the globe in months without the massive global travel we have today. Yes, we have better meds and medical resources than we did then, but this strain seems to be much, much more lethal. All it takes is one highly transmissible virus in one infected person on a full plane to a big travel hub to infect thousands.

I don't know a single doctor who isn't scared sh**less by this. It's their worst nightmare, and you're dismissing it like it's just a regular cold? That's just wishful thinking.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

37. Burn some incense and sacrifice to the Gods.

Makes about as much sense as loading up on vitamin C. Unless, you can prove that vitamin C has an effect on bird flu.

[Maraya1969]

38. You may be right. When I take a lot of C I feel like I am making

my body stronger so that may be why I don't get sick. I have always admitted that the supplements I take may help me just because I think they will.

[Dogmudgeon]

40. You need more than Vitamin C

Vaccination is by far the best preventative for infectious illnesses. But if there isn't enough vaccine -- a probable situation given the neo-Con domination of the pharmaceutical industry and the medical supply chain -- there are several other things you can, and must, do to stay healthy:

Hygiene. Handwashing and covering your mouth when you sneeze -- at a minimum. Limiting your exposure to other people for the duration of the outbreak is also a good idea if you can manage it.

Nutrition. Vitamin C is just a start. People should take supplements to make sure they're getting enough of all their vitamins -- most people don't pay enough attention to what they eat to make sure they're getting them from food. However, eating better food is also quite helpful. And adequate hydration -- enough water -- is more important than most people think.

Sleep. Sleep is overlooked as a health factor, but it's a big one. If you tend to short yourself on sleep, make sure you get at least 8 hours for every 24 during an outbreak.

Warmth. People who do not have enough heat are much more susceptible to the flu and other transmissible diseases. Since flu season lasts from roughly November to March, it is especially important to make sure you're warm. If you can't turn the thermostat up, wear extra clothing. Avoid prolonged cold showers, too. You don't have to bake or sweat, just stay comfortably warm.

Alt-Med Suggestions: Very few of the "alternative" medical treatments have been well-researched, but if you're an enthusiast, use them along with hygienic and "standard medical" precautions. I strongly advise that no one skip the standard treatments for the alternative ones. The standard treatments are known to work at least fairly well, and nearly all of the alternative ones are reported to work fine with the standard treatments. It's a good idea for anyone using an alt-med treatment to keep notes, too; in case the treatment has broad applicability, public health scientists can potentially use that information.

Non-Panic. Panic and anxiety put a heavy load of stress on the body which reduces its ability to fight disease. Even if you do contract Bird Flu, if you avoid panic and have been taking the other precautions, your chances of surviving it are MUCH higher.

Also keep in mind that even during the Spanish Flu of 1918, only 5% of the people who had the disease died. It was a lousy, painful illness, but death was not common. 5% is a very high death rate statistically, but it means that your chances are much better than just a dice roll anyway.

However, if there's a 5% mortality rate, you can be sure that for the hungry, the cold, the anxious, and the poor in general, it will be more like 10% or 15%, or even higher.

Read my previous post, and some of the other ones like it. The flu is not a topic for cynicism. Bush will use any problem, any tragedy, to enhance his ego and his ratings. Don't let that dissuade you from taking effective action to stay healthy.

--p!

[Dogmudgeon]

41. No Proof = No Effect?

I think you've got the cart before the horse there.

Proof is not required for efficacy; in addition, there is a considerable literature and body of work on the therapeutic value of ascorbates in viral illness.

On the other hand, Tamiflu is about $30 a bottle, and is only partially effective against Influenza A (like Bird Flu). What does the average uninsured person have to sacrifice to the gods of Free Enterprise™? (The incense is optional.)

--p!