If Cheney and Rove go, who controls Bush?

[fujiyama]

OK, as we all know, Bush is a bumbling, idiotic, and to say the least- somewhat psychotic figurehead. But he has proven that he has neither the interest nor the intellect to control the day to day happenings of government.

Cheney and Rove have been in charge for policy for years now. Everything this administration does is vetted by Rove.

So who picks up the influence vacuum if these two leave? Granted it's a bit presumptuous, but there is a possibility of both being implicated in the Plame outing (and it's obvious they were the ones in charge of outing her name).

Is Rove's influence already dwindling? I heard that he was against the Miers appointment and it was chiefly Andy Card's idea.

[daveinchi]

1. Norquist, other neo-con elements.

[hwmnbn]

13. Welcome to DU, daveinchi....

:toast:

[Psephos]

2. Edgar Bergen nt

[Peter Frank]

3. Brilliant!!! n/t

[niyad]

4. his mommy??

[rwenos]

5. The same guys in grey suits

who ran Bushco before Cheney, DeLay and Rove did the perp walk.

And we'll never know their names. Kenny Lay was one, but he blew his cover.

These guys KNOW they run the world.

[sam sarrha]

6. Jack Daniels... and jack always has a bad attitude.. look out Iran,

[Peter Frank]

7. Nancy's Astrologist n/t

[Joyce78]

8. George Herbert Walker Bush

I believe Poppy has been controlling a lot of things in this country for too many years.

[FreedomAngel82]

11. Same here

I think Poppy has always been involved. He's the only former president who uses his CIA clearance and gets briefings.

[Joyce78]

18. While Reagan Slept

I believe Poppy was in control of Iran/Contra, while Reagan was trying to become at least a better actor as POTUS than in his previous Hollywood roles. I blame old man Bush and his cronies for many of the problems in our world. GHWB is the one who creeps me out completely, and all of his idiot children. How did so many of the Bush family acquire so much power?

[izzie]

29. and that is why this Bush put the records under cover.

I am not sure it is just his father. I think Baker has had an office in the WH group of building for years. He was always the power behind the father. Or so I think. Look into that.

[SoCalDem]

21. Poppy set the whole thing up...with his henchmen

during Clinton's years.. It was no accident that Clinton was riden like a pony during his whole term.. Junior was not "ready" to challenge Clinton, so Clinton was "allowed' to serve two terms.. Poppy & the crew spent 8 years in exile (Texas) planning this whole mess..

nothing happens by accident with these freaks

[libhill]

44. Poppy

has had his clammy little fingers in every bit of skulduggery since Kennedy was killed. I believe he even tried to have Ronnie Raygun whacked.

[jobycom]

14. I don't think Poppy likes his son much

Rumor was that Junior kicked him out of his circle. During the lead up to the Iraq invasion, Poppy even criticized Junior. He had to do it from England, as though he no longer had the president's ear.

I swear I think the reason Clinton and Bush Daddy get along so well is because Bush wishes his son was more like Clinton.

But then again, I think all the stuff about HW being a controlling mastermind is silly. He's no smarter than his son, and has never shown any ability to plan or strategize. He can get things done when they are sitting in front of him, but he can't plot out anything. He was as bad at business as W. It was said of him that he would spend a million dollars to make a thousand. I think he's been as much a puppet as his son is.

[jobycom]

15. Damn. What if Bush really did become president?

He'd try to do to the world what he used to do to frogs.

[izzie]

30. I am telling you it is Baker and Co.

---

[libhill]

45. If that's true

then who is pulling the strings? That's the 65,000 dollar question -

[jobycom]

46. It's not one person, and it's not the same every time.

That's what people miss. Bush is weak (applies to both Bushes, and to Reagan), but he's still president. He still has the power to do what he wants. He probably usually believes he is doing what he wants, which is why you promote a half-wit to the post--he's more gullible.

So Bush has people telling him how to do different things. Cheney, Rove, Rumsfield, Ashcroft at first, corporate America (which is always changing), Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, his father, his wife. He does what he does based on who makes the strongest argument, and who has his ear on the subject. He does what Rove says on political strategy. If Cheney disagrees, he makes a choice based on who he believes at the moment, and thinks that's leadership. He can fire any of them, so in the end they go along, whether they agree or not.

That's why Powell hung around. He believed he could be the one to make the choices. But Bush played him, dragging him on but never listening.

There's constant manipulation behind the scenes to get Bush's ear. Cheney and Rove and Ashcroft and Rumsfield and Rice all struggled with each other to get the upper hand. Whoever did ruled on that issue. Some are better than others--Rove and Cheney, especially. There's an art to seeming to be a yes man while still pulling the strings.

This is very typical of bad kings. King John of England was the perfect example. He listened to his friends because he didn't have the common sense to know what to do himself. Because he didn't make his own decisions, and didn't stand for anything, he was easily manipulated, and his friends made him do what was best for them. The rest of the country suffered. When the other nobles rose up and forced him to listen, he had to, so he did.

That's what's happening, and why it is so bad. There is no leader. The person appointed as leader just does whatever anyone convinces him to do. In Commander and Chief the other week the president was being led from one meeting to the next, and asked her chief of staff if it was always like that. "I just have to get used to never knowing what's going to happen next?" That's the way it is. People like the Bushes, like Reagan, have no leadership skills, so they just do what they are told.

The two most unscripted things for Bush were 9-11 and Katrina. He didn't know what to do in either one, because they didn't help anyone's special interests, and Bush had no leadership skills of his own. As soon as everyone else realized how well these events could help their plans, Bush kicked into gear, and looked to be taking charge. He wasn't. He just finally got told what to do, and did it as definitively as only a mindless automaton can do.

Strong presidents, like Carter, Clinton or Nixon, get involved in every part of the decisions. That's why they are more in control. They don't always succeed, but they always know what's going on. Bush doesn't.

[johnnypneumatic]

9. Satan could take over for Rove, but it would take a few months

to get up to speed, Rove would have to give him some training on how real evil works

[FreedomAngel82]

10. Poppy?

My only guess.

[leftofthedial]

12. why, Gawd, of course.

or the voices that the bushturd thinks belong to Gawd.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

16. Comments (Toles)

[Peter Frank]

17. This Guy's Father...

[grasswire]

19. Karen Hughes?

He could pull her over from the State Department.

[mandyky]

28. Bingo!

One of the original TX people.

[LunaC]

20. “he has neither the interest nor the intellect “

This is what troubles me the most. When he got bored in the past, he just bailed out and Daddy opened the door for something else. This time he’s stuck where he is. The neocon Back-Up Team will move into place and whatever new greedy power-grab scheme they come up with, he’ll just say “Yeah, yeah, yeah…….whatever! Do what you want ‘cuz I don’t give a damn. Want a drink?”

Then again, if there’s a big blow-out in the White House, their ability to do anything too nefarious will be greatly diminished in the aftermath of public outrage. He may end up earning himself the dubious distinction of being the Prezdent with the lowest popularity EVER!

[Union Thug]

22. The Great and Powerful Oz?

[MsConduct]

23. Whoever offers the most payola. n/t

[Peter Frank]

24. I Got it...

[cassiepriam]

25. Pickles gets the job.

[NNN0LHI]

38. You know n/t

[Hubert Flottz]

26. Poppy Bushco!

As usual.

[H2O Man]

27. James Baker n/t

[chat_noir]

31. for you Photoshoppers

[DistressedAmerican]

35. Nice Fodder! Thanks. Saving For Later.

[Skittles]

32. they will still control him

they created him, they won't let him go

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

33. Cheney will use carrier pigeons.

[Skittles]

39. LOL.........RUMMY

:D

[DistressedAmerican]

34. I Think I'll Send Them A Resume. They Need A Guy Like Me.

I would run that mouthpeice for the benefit of society.

I would isolate him from his corporate buddies and make sure he never had access to FOX nexs.

I would make him host real town hall meetings with regular people.

In short, I'd make him a human being.

[triguy46]

36. rove and cheney still. They can phone it in.

[NNN0LHI]

37. Would some DU wives on here please answer this question for the OP?

Alright I will do it.

>>>If Cheney and Rove go, who controls Bush?<<<

The same person who has controlled him for the past 20 years.

Pickles.

Yea its true.

Don

[newportdadde]

40. Laura would, probably does already.

I think people really underestimate how much influence ones spouse has over their decision making. Maybe my own home is unusual but we make large decisions together. If I was President I'm pretty sure upon getting in bed for the night my wife and I would talk over upcoming issues, summits, things that worried me etc.

Who knows maybe Laura has helped keep him together more then we realize.

[NNN0LHI]

41. Thank you. Hard to get the truth around here sometimes n/t

[insane_cratic_gal]

42. It's going to be like "Lost"

Someone else has to run in and hit W's self destruct button every 108. mins.

[elehhhhna]

43. Relax. The Devil can get ahold of Bush directly if necessary.