School cancels Halloween festivities: Agree or disagree

[prolesunited]

October 2005

Historically, Halloween has been one of the favorite holidays to celebrate. Parties, costumes, and parades have been for many of us a traditional part of the seasonal fun. However, over the years, concerns have grown about the value and appropriateness of celebrating Halloween in the schools. The childrens safety, loss of instructional time, philosophical/religious differences regarding the holiday and financial concerns are some of the reasons for schools reviewing the tradition of celebrating Halloween as a major component of fall celebrations. In response to such concerns and with sensitivity to the diversity of opinion regarding this holiday, School City of xxxxxx Elementary Schools will no longer celebrate the fall season with an emphasis on Halloween. As a result, children will not wear costumes during the school day and there will be no parades. Schools can certainly continue to celebrate the fall season and may do so in a variety of ways, focusing on other fall activities and festivities celebrating the fall season.

Sincerely,

Director of Elementary Education

[timber84]

1. Yep don't let the kids have any fun.

[FreedomAngel82]

69. Unless of course

it's Christmas. :eyes:

[NYCGirl]

2. How sad. NT

[JVS]

3. Fine with me

[prolesunited]

17. Could you elaborate?

[JVS]

23. It's fine with me is really all I have to say. I don't mind this.

[Check12]

30. Hey! Let the kids wear the custumes but..

Abolish adult costumes at the workplace. When you walk in to a bank and all the tellers are in really bad costumes? it's embarassing!

[oregonindy]

45. for the most part neo con born agains are the pretty dumb and useless

they dont seem to be able to read and discern real history.

they dont seem to be able to entertain the idea that other peoples ideas are just as valid as theirs.

they dont seem to be to actually even follow the teachings of their own god.

they are unable to deal with logic.

fear, fear, fear is all they seem to know....oh and throw in a touch of guilt and a dash of anger.

***please note that I am not blanket stating that it is all born agains***

[FreedomAngel82]

72. Don't worry it was clear

You said "neo-cons". :) But it's true. They don't care about anyone else but themselves. They're really selfish.

[depakid]

120. That about sums it up

Worthless human beings with little to no redeeming value. The last place we want people like that is anywhere near our public schools.

[soothsayer]

4. I think our country is becoming sooo stupid.

[SteppingRazor]

5. The combination of religio-crazies and paranoid soccer moms...

has finally killed the holiday.

Because, after all, if you're not worriyng about pagans and witches on Halloween, you're worrying about mythical razor blades in apples, or legendary cyanide in candy.

[Arugula Latte]

52. On the other hand, Halloween has never been bigger in the sense

that it's now a HUGE merchandizing holiday. Have you seen all the decorations and such in a store like Target? Instead of carving a few pumpkins and maybe taping a hand-made ghost to a window, millions of people go all out for Halloween at the cash register.

[Maeve]

94. I think one of the reasons Halloween is so big now is fear

It's about the only time in our culture that we can talk about fear and death and the "gruesome" side of life. We live surrounded by scary things (hey, Dubya's in the White House, how much scarier does it get???) and we need an outlet for that. So we turn to haunted houses, slasher movies, monster dress-ups--all the things that let us have "safe" frights we can feel brave about surviving.

As a storyteller, I LOVE the chance to do a Halloween gig for schools; and one tale that is a kids' favorite is about dealing with things that frighten you. (short version: the monster gets smaller as the hero refuses to be frightened, becoming toy-sized in the end)

[kestrel91316]

115. Samhain has been secularized and commercialized just like

Christmas. I don't see why it can't be enjoyed by all, just like the Christmas holiday season is. There doesn't HAVE to be a religious component to the celebrations...............

Of course the fundies hate it because it has religious meaning for a tiny oppressed minority, so that means nobody should be allowed the secular celebration of the harvest.

[underpants]

6. Christians-extreme Christians- interfering in American Tradition

I see both sides on this actually but I lean towards letting the kids have some fun and since it isn't a religious thing (NOT being religious seems to be the problem with this for some) why not?

[ComerPerro]

13. Exactly. Why do they have to go around ruining time-honored traditions

for our children?

They must be very out of touch with mainstream America.

[underpants]

19. The daycare we are switching to has "Fall Festival"

It is a big corporate set up (yeah yeah well it is the best we have found so far) so I understand why they basically take religion out of it (Winter Festival) too. I have no problem with that. I asked about it pointedly too.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

48. I wouldn't say Halloween is exactly "religious." Here in TX they're big

on all that "Fall Festival" crap too.

[MsUnderstood]

32. well I say its about time

In my neighborhood, we get hundreds of kids--because poorer families drive to our tract housing where the houses are close and the candy is plenty.

Meanwhile, my neighbors prefer to take their kids to the mall instead of trick or treating for fear of poisoned candy.

The costumes are out August and the pushing of the holiday is in full swing by end of Sept.

At school, the teachers have to police the outfits as unsafe, inappropriate, etc taking away from time spent teaching while they stop kids from pranking each other.

Kids who don't participate are singled out or in higher grades they are singled out for participation.

Meanwhile, WTF does halloween have to do with education? I get so mad that we can have a national debate about why we can't talk about Sex or evolution--things kids need to be taught but try to tell people we don't need to celebrate Halloween (a pagan holiday converted to christianity) or St. Patricks day (an irish holiday to celebrate the killing of Pagans in Ireland by a Catholic Priest) and people are up in arms.

If you want to celebrate the holiday then at least have some honesty about the origins!

*rant off*

[Bridget Burke]

103. Please find authoritative data about Patrick killing the pagans.

There's a good chance he was "real"--although legends certainly built up around him. However, he was not the only--or even the first--Christian priest in Ireland. Ireland has long been influenced by seagoing visitors, not just those who slogged West through Europe. Many scholars have seen a Coptic influence in early Irish Christianity. (Even my long-ago Medieval Literature course mentioned the Egyptian origins of Irish monasticism.)

The conversion of Ireland occurred without violence on either side. Ireland is the 3rd oldest written language in Europe because of Christian clerics. Unfortunately, the ancient Irish lore thus preserved does not include full & sympathetic accounts of Irish religion. But why the HELL did the Druids not foster literacy? The concept was not unknown--Ireland had not been isolated from the world. Perhaps they were fearful of their jobs, which included many years of memorization.

Boston Irish began celebrating St Patrick's Day in the 18th century. Later, it became a way for Irish Catholics to express their pride. Now it's an excuse for a lot of silly drinking, but some fun can still be had in the right pub.

Concerning Halloween--why not talk about the Pagan origins, the Christian holiday & modern variations. Throw in El Dia de los Muertos for good measure.

[phylny]

119. I lived in a neighborhood that got a lot of poor kids driven in

for Halloween, and I thought of it as a privilege to spend about $30 for kids who ordinarily didn't have even a small percentage of what we have, financially and otherwise.

It never bothered me one bit.

[Rabrrrrrr]

7. Ah, the wonderful things that happen when the Christo-fascists

get elected to school boards and/or just raise their bleeting, senseless voices in unison.

I always found Halloween to be great fun, and I think it's a nice thing to do in schools.

It's all for fun.

[FreedomAngel82]

77. Same here

My church even has a "trunk-or-treat" thing the Wednesday before Halloween. After church all the little kids dress up in costume's and go to the back parking lot and get candy and stuff. The college class at my church also has a Halloween party and people can dress up and stuff. :eyes: All these people are really ridiculous with Halloween. :eyes:

[Skidmore]

8. You know, given the number of arguments I've seen about

Christmas here, I say drop all observances of holidays associated with religious calendars. Holidays should be celebrated at home, not at school.

[RepublicanElephant]

113. yep....

either celebrate them ALL or ban them ALL.

no picking and choosing religions, if we're going to be constitutional about this.

[Deep13]

9. Welcome to Killjoyville High School

I bet it is fundy pressure. They think Halloween is evil.

Stiffling health release breeds serial killers.

[lectrobyte]

10. Must remove all imagination and individuality. Just another step on

the road to Corporate Conformity.

[Beware the Beast Man]

11. Wow. That is total crap.

One one hand, you have the Fundies who complain that Halloween is an evil holiday to celebrate devil worship and "paganism." On the other, you have those who practice Earth-based religions who probably think Halloween cheapens Samhain, which is a sacred holiday. Then you have the whole safety issue. Poor kids. Does anyone remember to have fun anymore?

[LostinVA]

41. halloween doesn't bother me

To me, it doesn't cheapen Samhain, because the people enjoying it are mainly little kids who are just having a great time. Just like the modern Santa Claus technically cheapens Christmas, but most Christians I know don't see it that way.

Just me! Let the kids have their Halloween at school -- it was always a fun day. And guess what? I WENT TO A RELIGIOUS ELEMENTARY SCHOOL!

[Beware the Beast Man]

63. I guess I was trying to approach it from both extremes.

One from the uber-Fundie perspective, and the other from the ultra-PC "let's ban Halloween festivities because maybe one or two people may find it offensive" types. As far as who influenced the letter, my money's on the Fudie type, but I wouldn't be surprised either way. :)

[FreedomAngel82]

78. For real!

I remember my school we always had parties on the major holiday's from Halloween to Christmas. It was always fun but I think my favorite was probably Valentine's Day and than Halloween. :) I don't remember wearing a costume but Halloween colors to school.

[ComerPerro]

12. Fundies are behind this. They are bitter, because we don't celebrate

Christmas in schools.

And, I'm sorry, but these people who bitch and moan about "winter break" instead of "Christmas break" are just full of shit.

As a student in public schools for 12 years (13 with kindergarten) I can assure you that even though it was always "Winter Break" or "Holiday Parties", people threw around the word "Christmas" and put up Christmas decorations without batting an eye.

Its not like these people are oppressed.


But the fundies are just exacting revenge. And they are trying to go for the "religious objecitons" angle, I believe, so they can blame liberals and the ACLU who want "God and traditional values" out of schools.

[prolesunited]

24. On another board

a poster said the liberals were behind this. It was part of our evil plot to control individual freedoms -- like taking candy and soda machines out of schools (scientific evidence that these are causing real harm be damned.)

[ComerPerro]

34. Funny, isn't it, exactly what "personal freedoms" FReepers value?

Its like Ayn Rand turned them all into assholes.

They don't care about free speech, or true freedom of religion.

All they want is to be free to treat other people like shit and to act like a complete douchebag.

Its so fucking immature.

They don't care about the patriot act, but they are worried about "individual freedoms" when kids aren't allowed to eat pop and candy in school, or when they aren't allowed to call someone a "fucking nigger" at work without being reprimanded.

Sick, sick assholes.

[FreedomAngel82]

82. It is sick

And if they're so worried about their kids eating soda and candy at schools they should teach their kids to eat healthy. If you teach kids when they're young the habit will stay with them. I knew many kids when I was in high school who did eat healthy (especially the girls for spring and summer) and some who didn't. It's all about your priorities with what you're going to eat and the consequences of eating it. But don't spoil it for the rest. My school had candy and soda machine's. Only thing is they turned them off during class cause the kids were supposed to be in class and kids snuck out of class all the time to get a coke or something and would skip. It wasn't cause of their health but more so to keep them in class.

[ComerPerro]

102. Exactly. Plus, there really isn't a need for soda and candy in class

its just distracting.

[FreedomAngel82]

80. Yep

I can say that's true as well. They like to play the "victim". In reality they're more blessed than they could dream about living here with religious freedoms. They can go to church freely, have Christian music, go to Christian related events, movies etc. There are people at my church who travel a lot with missionary work and one woman goes to Russia a lot and they have to becareful there for some reason. I get so tired of all these people and I'm a Christian myself. I just want to bang my head against the wall. :banghead: It's so hypocritical of them as well. Claiming to be "persecuted" with Christmas but than turn around and do the same thing with Halloween.

[prolesunited]

106. Perhaps this is their way of getting back

To take Halloween away from those devil-worshipping liberals.

[napi21]

14. What State is this in? I know I was really surprised, when I moved

from the North to the South, that Halloween was viewed here as celebrating Satan, and very few let their children participate!

I was used to having 100+ kids come to our door each Halloween! During the last 5 years, the most we had was 5!

[ultraist]

61. I live in the South and get tons of trick or treaters.

My daughter and I are in the process of making very cool Mardi Gras masks, in honor of the Katrina victims, to wear on Halloween. (I got the idea from the DU auction).

Do you live in a small town?

[FreedomAngel82]

83. That sounds cool!

My neighborhood I lived at when I was younger had a lot of treaters. It was always fun and houses decorated. Here in the neighborhood I live at now we don't have many treaters since most of the kids are grown up now and it's really dark and hilly. The mall down the road has kids come trick-or-treating and I think families have parties and stuff.

[napi21]

85. Not real small, about 400,000 people. I live about

1/2 hr to 45 mins north of the Atlanta Airport in Ga.

As I said, I was really surprised! We also lived in Greenville SC, and San Antonio, Tx. and Ga. is the only place I encoundered this kind of thinking.

[salin]

121. I could be wrong, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was Indiana

the district title sounds like some of those in this state - and we have pockets of crazies throughout the state.

[CrispyQ]

15. If I had children, I would pull them from school that day,

dress them in their costumes & go out & about -- run errands, go to the library, visit an old folks home, whatever, but let them have fun.

I think the only purpose in life is to have fun. The fundies seem to be just the opposite on that, but it is not enough that they themselves have no fun, they want to ruin it for everyone else too. Assholes.

[ultraist]

62. My kids have a teacher workday on Halloween, so they are out of school

I'm thinking perhaps they didn't want to succumb to the Fundies and ban costumes so they just canceled school! lol

[Ravenseye]

16. Actually it annoyed me as a kid

I didn't like having to wear a costume to school. It felt silly and inappropriate to me as a kid (though I wouldn't have used those words). I didn't like the competetivness of the kids with who had the best costume. I didn't like being paraded around the school into each other homeroom for them to stare at us.

Then later on I didn't like having to sit and watch the little kids walk through with their costumes, as it would inevitably be interupting something more interesting and seemed sort of pointless and sometimes cruel to me.

Yet I loved Halloween, and still do. It's just something that should be celebrated at home, and in your nieghborhood...not at school. That's just dumb. What about kids who can't afford good costumes, who feel idiotic compared to the richer kids with insanely great costumes?

I have no problem with stopping the practice at school.

[Larissa238]

53. You know what is more annoying?

When you have a freeper as a Spanish teacher in High School, and you make them go to all the spanish classes and have them sing "Feliz Navidad". I had to watch them do this, and I felt so embarassed for them.

And as for Halloween in schools? Let them have it. Dont mind the parades if it takes too much time out of class. Just let the kids dress up and be kids, for crying out loud.

[FreedomAngel82]

84. I agree

If the kid doesn't want to participate than don't. They can always explain that it's religious indifference and they just don't celebrate.
It's definitley not fair for the other kids.

[Larissa238]

107. They didnt have a choice

It was for class credit- otherwise nobody would have done it. (singing the Christmas song)

[porphyrian]

18. This is fundamentalist bullshit.

They are just shrouding it in quasi-legitmate-sounding concern. However, anyone who goes trick-or-treating knows about the fundies on the block who refuse to celebrate Halloween because it's "Satanic!" Horseshit. It's the second most-popular holiday with children, and even some adults. These fuckers try EVERY YEAR to get people to stop celebrating the holiday, and now they're on the PTA and the school board pushing creationist propaganda in our public school system. This Halloween is going to be no more dangerous than the last fifty. I'm calling bullshit.

[underpants]

31. BEWARE THE DOMINIONISTS AT THE PTA

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/_/id/7235393?pageid=rs.Home&pageregion=single7&rnd=1113271947906&has-player=true&version=6.0.12.1040

[FreedomAngel82]

88. That's why we have to fight back

I believe highly that we can fight them back and on their own terms. We have to get people on the school board and we have to organize as well and just fight them back. The ACLU does help out a lot but we need to do more. I still think they're a minority. If they weren't why would the republicans have voting machine's? They don't have enough votes without it.

[FreedomAngel82]

87. It is bs

Remember last year with Christmas? Bill O'Reilly "freaking" out about everything. I betcha he won't freak out about Halloween. Ugh. I can't stand these people anymore.

[Mythsaje]

20. In Puyallup Washington last year

they started this whole thing and someone was actually quoted as saying "We don't want to offend the Wiccans."

Most Wiccans OPPOSED the move and the general thought it was a RW attempt to ban a holiday they don't like anyway and find a way to place the blame on political correctness and a religion they don't like in the first place.

[politicaholic]

21. So, what other time can the kids worship sweet lord Satan?

:sarcasm:

Well, its time to start writing boring Fall related songs about leaves, tepid but rapidly changing weather, and stew. There just aren't enough songs about stew.

[FreedomAngel82]

90. I know!

We can all meet at the flag poll after school! I'll bring the candles!

[ProdigalJunkMail]

22. after seeing initial replies my heart sinks

at the HUGE double standard amongst some of the members here.

The Fundies get offended by something and demand that it be removed from schools...people here scream and yell that the Fundies have gone crazy with power...

The Atheists (and others) get offended by something in the schools that is just FINE with the Fundies...people here applaud and say, "Hell, yeah, get that out of the schools/government...it has no place there!"

Pot, meet kettle...

subjectProdigal

[JVS]

26. yeah, that does seem kind of funny

:popcorn:

[underpants]

28. Nope not me

This is an attempt to take a celebration that isn't religious out of the schools/society because of their religious beliefs.
3

Don't confuse this with secular types trying to keep religion out of schools

BEWARE THE DOMINIONISTS

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/_/id/7235393?pageid=rs.Home&pageregion=single7&rnd=1113271947906&has-player=true&version=6.0.12.1040

[ProdigalJunkMail]

29. sorry...but to them it is religious...and to some others

and even worse, it is a celebration of things demonic (not saying I agree, but this is their point). It is the celebration of the antithesis of their religious preference.

If you really want to twist a fundy who hates halloween, tell him the origin of christmas...

None of these things should be celebrated in school...

subjectProdigal

[underpants]

33. No it isn't

it is a fun time for costumes and candy. If people want to make it into demonic worship it is on them. Yes there was spooky talk of that when I was a kid but then there were stories about hippies putting acid into pixie sticks and razors into apples and those weren't true and they didn't scare me away from apples (pixie sticks yes).

Don't read to much into the real reason for this (to most people) and ignore the wackos and weirdos trying to make this into something that it is not.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

38. underpants, if that is true, then christmas

is just a time of trees and gifts. Halloween does (whether you like it or not) have its origin (ironically, just like christmas) in pagan rituals and celebrations. The fundies have just as much right to be upset over it's history and celebration as secularists do about having an Easter Egg Hunt on school property...either both are ok, or neither is...

subjectProdigal

[FreedomAngel82]

91. It's all about control

That's all it's about. Control. They want the kids to be just like them and their beliefs. Nobody else to celebrate their religious beliefs whether it's Christmas, Halloween or what. It's just control.

[LostinVA]

50. No, it's NOT the antithesis of their beliefs.

That would be glorifying satan and evil. We don't do that. We don't even BELIEVE in Satan or any other metaphysical evil being. It's not my fault they don't have the correct information. Just like it's not my fault they don't have the right information about homosexuality. It's not my problem -- or the kids not having a halloween party -- that they are ignorant and hateful, YET THEY GET REWARDED FOR THIS CONSTANTLY. I'm tired of it. They need to STFU, and use all of that energy volunteering pr something.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

65. you and I understand that...

but fundamentalist christians, right or wrong, believe that anything that draws worship from god is antithetical and this would certainly apply. Are they taking it too far? Probably. But so are many of the secularist bent. I just don't believe ANY OF IT should be in schools. Breaks should be for a break...not a celebration. If the school system allows celebration of halloween ( based a pagan holiday ) then they should allow Christmas...because it too is based on a pagan celebration...just modified.

subejctProdigal

[shimmergal]

104. ALL OF IT should be in schools!

Why take out all the fun things? any parents who don't want their kids to celebrate can keep them home and let them spend the day in a more "worshipful" way. Fundies' kids would like that too--probably not their parents, though, because they'd have to sacrifice some of their time to look after the kids.

[JVS]

114. It is the holder of beliefs who gets to decide what is antithetical to...

said beliefs.

[porphyrian]

42. It's not hypocritical.

Athiesism ISN'T a religion. It is the belief that there is no God. There is no rational way to argue that claim. Besides, the responsibility of proof belongs to the person making an unproven claim, i.e. There is a God. Atheists don't have to prove their belief, it is the default until proven otherwise.

This is the genius behind the Flying Spaghetti Monster. The argument for teaching creationist beliefs in public schools is ridiculous as there is no proof to support their claim - it is just something they believe on faith. So, why should we stop at only one unsupported belief based solely on faith? Why not teach about the Flying Spaghetti Monster who created the universe with a wave of Its noodly appendage? Why not teach about the invisible microscopic flying pink monkeys that live in my left nostril and sing ideas into the heads of lepers?

Atheists believe, and I would say rightly, that the teaching of these unproven beliefs should be done in religious institutions, not public schools, where the curriculum is based instead on proven and provable fact. This isn't hypocrisy, it is embracing the concept of separating church and state.

[geomon666]

43. I don't like double standards either.

Which is why Christmas, Valentine's Day, Easter, St. Patties and all the other holidays should be banned from school too. If you're going to get rid of one, get rid of them all.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

47. agreed wholeheartedly

school is a place of learning...teach facts...and you can still have fun without supporting any of the these holidays...

subejctProdigal

[ultraist]

71. Learning about cultures IS teaching facts

There are fun and interesting ways that children can learn about various cultures, which SHOULD be part of the school curriculum.

Frankly, I'm tired of the trend at schools moving toward just Science and Math, which is not only boring but makes for students who are unprepared to deal with a global society.

Schools should have some festivals and days where kids can wear costumes (or traditional dress of differing cultures), eat foods from around the world, etc. as well as more lit and art courses.

Our schools are so ethnocentric, that consequently, they are creating a lot of little rednecks that have little respect for diversity.

I'm speaking in general and not really referring to this specific Halloween situation although I think cancelling Halloween evidences the trend toward the white fundie influence over our schools, which of course is very eurocentric and anti anything outside of their narrow, white American culture.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

73. all I am trying to point out here is that it is an all or none proposition

you can't get all pissy about one being there without being pissy about them ALL being there and maintain intellectual honesty. I have no problem with halloween...but I have no problem with christmas and i think teaching about yom kippur would be ok too. But others don't think that way. They want to say some celebrations are ok whilst others are not...i disagree.

And for the record, if you want to teach these things, teach them in a sociology class...don't cancel a whole day for it...

subjectProdigal

[FreedomAngel82]

92. Of course they wouldn't like that

I'd use that argument too probably. If they wanted to get rid of Halloween and I had children in a school I would go to the school board and say: "are you going to get rid of Christmas too?" Than watch them freak among themselves and if they still ban it go to the ACLU.

[LostinVA]

44. This is ONLY a religious holiday to pagans, and to know one else

The religious connotations to it haven't been around for hundreds of years (btw... the Puritans banned All Hallow's Eve because it was Papist). It's a fun holiday that the Fundies want to use as one of their "things." It's stupid. It also shows the Fundies are idiots: pagans don't believe in Satan; he's a Judeo-Christian-Muslin belief... he ain't ours.

This is NOTHING like separation of Church and State, or having Winter Holidays instead of Christmas Parties. Come on. THis is DU. Taking digs at atheists is disgusting.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

49. it is not a dig at atheists ... just hypocrites

if it is a pagan holiday then it should no more be celebrated than Christmas or Easter...

If the celebration/holiday is based on ANYTHING RELIGIOUS it should be removed.

subjectProdigal

[geomon666]

54. Well you've just about wiped out every single holiday.

Except for 4th of July.

[LostinVA]

58. Well, this IS kinda close to the Summer Solstice

[LostinVA]

57. ARRGGHH! Halloween ISN'T a Pagan holiday!

Samhain is. THAT is the Pagan holiday, which is on the same day as All Hallow's Eve, which also used to be a Holy Day in the Catholic Church. If these kids, on 10/31, went and practiced our rituals, THEN and only then would it be religious. But they don't, so it isn't. It's not a Samhain Party, or a Samhain costume, or anything else like that. It is NOT celebrating Paganism, in anyway.

Taking every bit of fun out of schools and kid's lives.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

68. taking out just as much fun as taking away christmas...

the celebration of Halloween falls right in line with Samhain...no? As does All Hallows Eve (and you know how the catholic church is loved by some of the fundies). What exactly does Samhain celebrate???

subjectProdigal

[geomon666]

70. Link

http://www.celticspirit.org/samhain.htm

[AlCzervik]

25. My neighbors are born again and don't do halloween but they don't

punish people around that do.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

27. This is sad

when I taught school, we had a big project that culminated on Halloween. I talked to my kids about magic-you know, illusions, like pulling a rabbit out of a hat. I had several how to do magic tricks books for kids, and they would choose a trick, practice it, and then we'd perform it for the kindergarten class (I taught fourth graders). It motivated even the most reluctant readers to not only read but to carefully follow instructions. I remember once a group of boys making the appparatus and pulling off "sawing a boy in half" (no way would they work with girls!) As I recall, none of the fellows really liked reading before this. Their trick was the hit of the show, and that year we videotaped it and showed it to the entire school.

Raised the kids' self esteem sky high. Never had a parent object to us doing it, though I did have to explain once to the parents that I was teaching illusions and presenting magic as that-they actually approved the fact that I was explaining magic in this way. And I was able to use a "lost" day as an incentive for kids to research, read, follow directions, and work together.

[FreedomAngel82]

93. That sounds like a lot of fun

I would've loved to be in your class. :)

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

96. You'd like the edible art show too then

at the end of the year, each kid did a report on some aspect of Illinois history. This could include making a diorama out of food. We always got a lot of New Madred Earthquake entries, as all it took was a cake that had fallen to pieces. Sometimes I think the cakes started out as something else. :)

We'd go visit a rendezvous at Fort de Chartres, and it included doing some dressup. I taught those who were interested to sew or work leather, and everyone made something to wear to the festivities. The rendezvous always took place at the very end of school on a weekend, so parents and I would simply carpool and take the kids-very informal, but a lot of fun.

[CrispyQ]

97. Wow!

I would have loved to be in your class! What an imaginative project to teach so many good things!

:yourock:

[SmokingJacket]

35. There are NO holidays at my kids' public school.

I'm relieved. No frigging cupcakes to bake. No math periods occupied by the making of construction-paper santas.

We go the extra nine-yards at home to make up for it: Halloween parties, gingerbread houses, decorations all over the place. I've even learned to play all the Christmas ditties on the piano.

Back when I was a teacher, the holiday crap was nothing but problems.

[Sabriel]

36. I agree, but for socio-economic reasons

Halloween sometimes becomes a pissing contest among parents to see who has the most elaborate, most authentic, most expensive costume. My daughter's school had a parade last year, and I felt for the kids who only had paper bag masks and regular clothes, walking next to their mini-Darth Vader classmates. You wouldn't believe what parents spend on costumes sometimes, and this was at a school that has a large (40%) population of students living in poverty.

[Theres-a]

40. Yes.

Sadly I have to agree.I went to a school that had uniforms,and "casual day" was a nightmare.Not a halloween thing,but the economic difference to my classmates was stark.

[sproutster]

37. Same deal here

Sheesh. Halloween is one of my favorite holidays, just for the fun and imagination of it.

"Save the children"

[SunDrop23]

39. Disagree

[annabanana]

46. back in the day, when I was a kid...

The non-sectarian holidays INCLUDED halloween..
(you know, with Thanksgiving, presidents birthdays, arbor day)

then some lunatics decided that it was too anti christian..
they flung poo

[LostinVA]

59. And, it isn't the least tiny bit anti-Christian

That is crazy and a HUGE lie.

[annabanana]

64. sigh... I know...n/t

[FreedomAngel82]

95. Yep

And if they don't like it so much why not put their kids in homeschooling or a religious school? My town has a few religious schools their kids could go to. :eyes: It's really quite sad.

[laureloak]

51. Disagree. The kids LOVE it and those who disapprove

always have the option of not participating.

I am curious to know if this note came from a public or private school.

[in_cog_ni_to]

55. Our school district has done this for years.

The kids still have fun. We still have parties, but it's just called "Fall Festival" party. Fine by me. The kids don't seem to mind either.

[Arugula Latte]

56. We still have Halloween at my kids' school but it's called "Harvest Cele-

bration." The kids dress up, have parties, etc. It's obviously Halloween, but the name has been changed to protect the sensitivity of the religious nuts.

[LSdemocrat]

60. Whatever

There are probably better ways to use school time.

[FreedomAngel82]

66. Oh good grief

I think all the pagans etc. in the school should rise up against this. Remember when the rightwingers were soooo upset about Christmas? :eyes:
So much for other people's faith's.

[McCamy Taylor]

67. Cancelling Halloween is a RELIGIOUS Decision, therefore Wrong.

[Ksec]

74. How Bland

They may as well take away laughter and fun while theyre at it. Anything that creates imagination is good for the little ones. Halloween holds some of my favorite memories of my childhood. To take away Halloween is to take away the joy the children get from it.

[FreedomAngel82]

75. With the "concerns" of religion

I betcha they don't opt out of Christmas! :mad: And if someone doesn't want to participate in Halloween than don't! Don't ruin it for the others. Good grief!

[Ksec]

76. Yea, but theyre worshipping Satan!!!!

hehe the asscracks should shut the f up/

[triguy46]

79. Oh yeah, not done in Oklahoma any more...

But of course we have 'fall festival' which is evidence of the cave in to the fundies. They object to Halloween because of its 'religious' overtones and since they don't get "christmas" the pagans and wiccans should not be allowed Halloween.

Last i remembered, halloween was an effort of the citizenry to prop up an ailing candy manufacturing sector. I don't recall any animal sacrifice, any virgin sacrifice, blood ceremonies, calling down of wizards or spirits. but I'm getting older and might just have forgotten how evil it really was.

[kath]

99. But they DO manage to get quite a lot of Christmas stuff into the schools

in OK. In some cases full-fledged Nativity pageants with Mary and baby Jesus and the whole nine yards. In PUBLIC schools.

[triguy46]

101. It a 'hole 'nother world in OK.

[LibDemAlways]

81. Ridiculous.

At my daughter's elementary school kids wore their costumes to school and had a parade around the playground first thing. Then they had to change back into regular clothes for the remainder of the day. In the afternoon most teachers had a small party in the classroom. Fun for all.

These days in middle school the kids can dress up and stay dressed up or not. About half wear costumes, most of the gory kind. Kids love this stuff. Most days the place is strictly business, but the administrators realize that this is a big deal for the kids and let them have their one day of fun. Hurts no one.

[warrens]

86. Political correctness from the right

What are they going to say when Xmas trees, etc. are banned? How about Xmas plays and shows? I know what they're going to say. Us evil liberals hate Christianity.

A few freaking pumpkins and ghosts aren't going to hurt anybody, and neither is a Xmas tree.

[Walt Starr]

89. As a Pagan, I agree with this.

Religious holidays should not be celebrated in public schools.

[Bridget Burke]

98. Disagree! Too many of them have been reading Jack Chick.

www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0011/0011_01.asp

Halloween is one of his favorite subjects. Check out the rest of the site (until the projectile vomiting begins).

[onenote]

100. hallowe'en is not a religious holiday any more than Thanksgiving

I was raised as an observant Jew. Kept Kosher, attended Hebrew school twice a week, etc etc. Never once did I hear my parents or the parents of any of my friends or anyone connected with our synagogue ever express any concern about my "celebrating" Hallowe'en by getting into costume and going trick or treating.

Maybe Pagans celebrate it as a religious holiday, but most Christians, Jews, and undoubtedly a number of Muslims, all "celebrate" Hallowe'en as a completely non-religious, secular tradition. Much like Thanksgiving, which is a secular holiday that some churches celebrate as a religious holiday (holding special masses or services).

Most Jews and Muslims don't, on the other hand, celebrate Christmas or Easter.

onenote

[LittleClarkie]

105. Will they cancel the other two pagan holidays as well

Or do they think Xmas trees and Easter eggs were originally Christian traditions...

[Larissa238]

108. Why can't people be like Mexicans....

And be Catholic yet have Dia De Los Muertos (a slight analog of Halloween, but WAY more into the spiritual realm), and have them not conflict??

[ReadTomPaine]

109. Should be a poll! n/t

[yasmina27]

110. Oh, give me a break!

It's a day of fun! My kids start talking about their costumes for the next year the day after Halloween.

I teach in a grade 7 & 8 middle school. Halloween ranks 2nd only to the day before Christmas vacation in level of excitement, whether we have dress-up day or not. One year I even dressed up as Marie Antoinette (I am a French teacher) and used it as a teaching tool.

:evilgrin:

[Lydia Leftcoast]

111. "financial concerns"?

How much does it cost to provide jack o' lantern cookies for each child?

There was NEVER any talk of Hallowe'en being "demonic" until the 1980s. School districts that ban it are just caving in to the fundies.

[insane_cratic_gal]

112. This is as absurd as

the whole panties in the bunch over Harry Potter books being a book of the devil or promoting witch craft or some shit.

Same tired old concept and prejudice. People seem to equate Pagan with some sort of evil. All it means is "old" religion, usually pertaining to peasants.

In my daughter's school they have a 30 min party at the END of the day.. they also have a christmas party and a gift exchange. I am not christian but I don't make a fuss over easter and christmas parties.

Halloween is just good fun, one thing I loved growing up. I know my own child loves halloween so just leave it the hell alone (pun intended).

[Northwind]

116. Halloween Dying?

Not while we at Psycho Detail draw breath!

http://www.psychodetail.com

(shameless plug)

[npincus]

117. ABSURD

how about letting the kids take a vote on it?

stupid, stupid fuck.

[Solly Mack]

118. ffffffffffff

idiots