How Many People Here Have Ever Read Philip Pullman? Before You Laugh...

[WritingIsMyReligion]

I might be revealing my young age, but as a matter of fact, though slated as a "young-adult" author, his books are amazing. If you really want to piss off the RWers--especially fundies and off-the-wall Catholics--you should really read Pullman's His Dark Materials trilogy (The Golden Compass/Northern Lights in the UK, The Subtle Knife, and The Amber Spyglass).

Basically, HDM deals with issues of human existence, etc. There is a mysterious substance called Dust--which quite possibly explains what makes humans different from all other beings--, and the very powerful Church of Pullman's world is flat-out terrified of it. The trilogy is about a girl, "destined to be the end of destiny," who is going to have to fight the Church--and eventually God Himself--to save uncountable billions of parallel worlds from overbearing religion, as this Dust is good, not wicked.

HDM is simply STUNNING: beautifully written, taut with suspense, and very, very original... most critics hail it as being the fantasy/sci-fi genre's next classic. Stunning imagery... my favorite book is the first, The Golden Compass.

You can probably see why Pullman--an atheist--is such a controversial author. Britain's Catholics call him "The Most Dangerous Man in England," and all this for encouraging people to actually THINK for once.

Very stunning... I was just wondering how many people here had heard of him or read any of his books. I know many adults who are entranced by HDM, and these are adults who usually dislike fantasy. They are very liberal and free-thinking books.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

1. Also of interest in HDM are

the daemons, or lifelong familiars. Daemons are the personifications of human souls, and every human in Pullman's world has one. Children's daemons constantly change shape, according to the child's mood, but adult daemons take one shape that best represents their human's personality... Daemons are crucial to the trilogy's plot, especially in the first book. They are such vivid things... All this fits in with the whole "innocence-to-experience" theme...

There is so much more that is just so amazing... I could gush on Pullman for hours.

[scubadude]

2. Never heard of Phillip Pullman, but....

I think he may be my next read!

Thank You,

Scuba

[WritingIsMyReligion]

3. No problem. He really IS

fascinating, and probably one of the genre's best writers... I find HDM comparable to Tolkein's LOTR, and I'm a big Tolkein fan, as well. I love Harry Potter, but HDM trumps even Rowling's masterpiece, in my opinion.

[kiki]

12. Pullman pees on Tolkein...

...from a great height. LOTR might be fun, but it's not really about anything, beyond the shocking and original message that - stop the presses, folks - "good" is nicer than "evil". Pullman does his best not to deal in these outdated absolutes.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

16. Aye, that's very true. n/t

[LeftyMom]

4. I just finished reading The Amber Spyglass yesterday

I cried like a baby at the end, which isn't really in character for me at all.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

17. Oh God, I KNOW. It's so fucking sad.

But so, so, so wonderful. :D :D

[LeftyMom]

19. Agreed

Have you read these? http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0553573403/qid=1129394774/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/104-7976734-9865558?v=glance&s=books&n=507846 They're not YA fiction like HDM but they're similarly layered and well written fantasy. I bet you'd like them.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

21. No, I haven't, but they look

interesting.... Thanks for the recommendation. :D :D

[LeftyMom]

24. Check 'em out

They're my favorite. The fourth book is shipping as I type and the author's a good dem, too. :D

[WritingIsMyReligion]

26. Well, that's uplifting.

:D :D :D

[rosesaylavee]

5. I started reading his trilogy before it was completed.

Thanks for reminding me to go find him again. It surprises me that his work is so controversial though.

But, then, Harry Potter is evil too. Wingnuts all.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

18. Surprisingly, Pullman does lose out

to HP in terms of "evilness". In my opinion, if I were a wingnut, I would think Pullman's religion-is-evil stance would be a lot more "dangerous" than the "witchcraft" of HP. But then again, they're called wingnuts for a reason, and--thank GOD--I am not one of them. ;)

[graywarrior]

6. Will attempt to read him.

Just finished all Harry Potter books and was surprised at how much I liked them.

Have you read Mary Doria Russell's The Sparrow?

[WritingIsMyReligion]

20. No, though I've heard of it.

HDM isn't very similar to HP, but I find that most people who like Rowling's work also enjoy Pullman's.

[graywarrior]

40. Just picked up the trilogy from the library

Have been going through serious Potter withdrawl, so I hope this works.

Read The Sparrow. You will not be dissapointed. There's a sequel to it, Children of the Gods of something like that.

Thanks for the Pullman info.

[donco6]

7. Philip Pullman is fabulous.

I immensely enjoyed the His Dark Materials trilogy. It was one of the most sophisticated plots I've read in a long time, and it's supposed to be for young adults. HIGHLY recommended. A good, entertaining, thoughtful read.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

22. Sophisticated is right, donco6.

I'm glad to know I'm not the only one who enjoys HDM. :D :D

[chalky]

8. Thanks for the recommendation. Will definitely be looking into this

author.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

23. No problem. Pullman

is stunning. I'm quite sure you'll like HDM.

[Monkey see Monkey Do]

9. The HDM trilogy is amazing

So many great things about it, though I was particularly entraced by the concept of 'Daemons'.

The Archbishop of Canterbury (Rowan Williams) has written thoughtfully about the series as well as staging several debates with Pullman about the issues the trilogy raises. He argues that Christians should respond to Pullman with debate worth of the level of the literature, not simple-minded and petty retorts (eg "fit for the bonfire" & "shameless blasphemy"). Here is an article he wrote after seeing the state adaptation* (which does contain a spoiler about a significant event):

http://books.guardian.co.uk/departments/artsandentertainment/story/0,6000,1166271,00.html

*pictures and a review can be found here:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/arts/gallery/0,8542,1116481,00.html

I was hoping to go, but sadly was never able to schedule it.

I've also read the first two of Pullmans Sally Lockhard series. She's a kind of Victorian investigator. Whilst not a patch on HDM, they're entertaining reads.

[muriel_volestrangler]

15. That's a 'stage' adaptation, not a 'state adaptation'

for those of you who might have thought there was an official British government line on Philip Pullman! :-)

Anyway, any books in which one of the chief evil characters is called "Mrs. Coulter" ought to be popular on DU (even if it is just a coincidence).

[WritingIsMyReligion]

27. Yes! I was reading something on Mann,

and that's what made me think of Marisa Coulter and, therefore, HDM!

:D :D :D

[WritingIsMyReligion]

25. Daemons are probably the single-best

concept in the entire trilogy. I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE Pantalaimon to pieces. He's so astoundingly real, and SO friendly. Well, his name is Greek for "all-merciful," or something of that sort. :D :D

[FVZA_Colonel]

43. A very interesting view.

If only the more vocal "Christian" leaders in this country were like Archbishop Williams, I wouldn't be as disenchanted with some of the aspects of organized (and I emphasize organized) religion.

[Pithy Cherub]

10. HDM is really an amazing thesis on

the meaning of life, science's role in life, the spiritual dimension and evil versus good inside each of us. It was very startling, dark and thought provoking. You have much to think about once you read it.

I read the series HDM while waiting on the Half-Blood Prince.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

28. After I read TGC, I couldn't sleep

because I was thinking so hard.... :D :D :D

[kiki]

11. Pullman rules...

...but there's part of me that doesn't want people to draw any attention to it in the US, because once the fundies get wind of it, they'll be burning copies before you can say "fascist theocracy".

There's a movie in the making. The fundie reaction to it should be good for a few laughs.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

29. Hell, yes. I can't wait to see what the theocons

think of New Line's adaptation... should certainly be worth laughing hysterically.

[ninkasi]

13. Thanks!

Sounds exactly like the kind of books I feel like reading right now. I'll definitely check this author out.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

31. Please do. You'll LOVE how

amazing a writer Pullman is, and how sophisticatedly he tackles this earth-shaking topic.

[riderinthestorm]

14. As an adult, I proudly admit, I loved these books.

Frankly, I think a lot of the childrens' fantasy series are superior to the adult fantasy books. My kids range in age from 9 -18 years old so I've spent at least 10 years reading their library books.

Redwall series, anything by Ursula LeGuin, Emily Rodda - there's so many I can't even begin to name them all. I also could go on and on gushing about Phillip Pullman as well.

I bet this thread will be moved to the Fantasy Book forum soon but hopefully before it goes your thoughtful OP will provoke more than a few people to check out this often overlooked author.

Thanks for posting!

[WritingIsMyReligion]

32. I ADORED Redwall when I was younger.

Le Guin, Rowling, Tamora Pierce, Tolkien... I'm a fantasy aficionado. But, in my opinion, Pullman trumps them all, at least as far as originality goes.

[nodehopper]

30. these are the most radical books I have read in the last five years

they are amazing. They are deeply concerned with ethics but disavow religion and organized Christianity. The world would be a better place if children were raised on them and other books like that.

For the record, I read them when I was 25 and could not put them down.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

33. I was introduced to TGC in--get this--

SCHOOL. My honors literature teacher in eighth grade made us read it, and I absolutely LOVED it. It was so astounding. If you just read TGC, I guess the whole "religion-sucks" mentality isn't very strong, so it was acceptable by the school board's standards.

My teacher was fifty-three when she assigned us this, and she read the entire trilogy in, like, a week. Not even that. After I found that out, I knew that I, too, had to finish HDM.

"Young adult" fantasy is DEFINITELY not just for teens.

[nodehopper]

42. that is AWESOME that your teacher had you read it in school

I don't know how it slipped past the schoolboard, the religion-sucks mentality is pretty strong, I would say. I mean, "heaven" is a hellish Hades and God is a frightened senile old man who gratefully expires when he is finally released from his prison that is keeping him from deteriorating. Oh yeah and teenage sex saves the universe. AWESOME!

[WritingIsMyReligion]

45. LOL I know

It is pretty amazing, but my teacher--God bless her--is a bit of a rebel. She was such an awesome person. :D :D

[gate of the sun]

34. I just turned on the subtle knife on CD

for my 5 year old.....he's likes to listen to books on tape or CD and we checked it out of the library.he listened to the amber spyglass last week, he really liked it, he was glued to the cd player, now I know a little bit more of whats going on in that story..

[WritingIsMyReligion]

35. That's wonderful.

I personally can't stand to read books in a series out of order, though :D :D :D It spoils all the suspense, for me.

[pitohui]

36. everyone's heard of them

i've read all 3 books, didn't think they were anything special, but i've read a LOT of books

if they mean a lot to others & apparently they do, as they were urged on me by a friend who read them after getting them from another friend, good for him

i just don't see anything particularly outrageous or controversial in the books in question but to ea. her own

[WritingIsMyReligion]

38. See, I think the whole

"religion-is-evil-why-don't-you-think-for-yourself?" theme is entirely on the dot. I've read a million books, for sure, but to me, HDM is a true example of how fantasy and sci-fi can really make people think. Too often are these genres stereotyped as being silly and fruitless.

[pitohui]

44. well, lots of SF has ALWAYS said this

until quite recently SF was the great literature of reason altho, to be sure, you did have offshoots that were apologists for the various religions such as "the sparrow" -- but for the most part SF was heavily dominated by a rational, libertarian, & "question authority" type belief system, to the point of it being formulaic at times

maybe that's why i don't find it so terribly original that fantasy might actually step into that territory also

but of course story isn't abt originality -- it's about STORY -- & this story does mean a lot to a lot of ppl

i suspect i would have enjoyed it much more if i had actually read it as a child

[annabanana]

37. they sound so good..

I just ordered the trilogy on half.com.. And when I finish them I'll give them to my kids..

Thanks!

[WritingIsMyReligion]

39. Oh, no problem.

Seriously. PLEASE have your kids read them. You will love them, absolutely, and your kids probably will, as well.

:D :D :D

[Monkey see Monkey Do]

41. Also, there's sort of a 4th book, "Lyra's Oxford"

Attention all serious book collectors and fans of Philip Pullman's His Dark Materials. This undoubtedly beautiful package, cloth-bound in a classy red and adorned by numerous illustrations by master engraver and illustrator John Lawrence, is sure to be a must-purchase. A pint-sized pocket volume, Lyra's Oxford packages together a short story set in the same universe as his famous trilogy, a fold-out map of the alternate-reality city of Oxford which Lyra and her daemon Pantalaimon inhabit, a short brochure for a cruise to The Levant aboard the SS Zenobia and a postcard from the inventor of the amber spyglass, Mary Malone. Pullman, in his introduction, suggests that the peripheral items within "might be connected with the story, or they might not; they might be connected to stories that haven't appeared yet. It's difficult to tell."

The story, "Lyra and the Birds", begins when Lyra and Pantalaimon spot a witch's daemon called Ragi being pursued over the rooftops of Oxford by a frenzied pack of birds. The daemon heads straight for Lyra and is given shelter. The creature was given Lyra's name as somebody who might help. The daemon is seeking one Sebastian Makepeace--an alchemist living in a part of Oxford known as Jericho. Together Lyra and Pan try to guide the daemon to the home of this man, but it is a journey fraught with more danger than they had at first anticipated.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0385606990/qid%3D1129399829/sr%3D1-1/ref%3Dsr_1_2_1/102-7058620-6156156

Though I haven't read it yet to recommend, it might serve as a further appetizer before The Book of Dust is written.