Rove Went Home ....

[H2O Man]

On MSNBC, they just played a clip of Chris Matthews saying that Rove went home yesterday after testifying to the grand jury. He did not return to his job at the White House.

Speculation on the significance?

My guess is that Karl took a beating. And I think he wasn't in a mood to talk to the people at work.

[fooj]

1. I agree. Photos of a "smiling" Rove don't mean a thing, IMO.

Now I wonder who he may have thrown under the bus to save his own backside.

Peace.

[H2O Man]

5. I think it confirms

that his smile was as fake as the president's concern for poor people.

[emulatorloo]

31. and that Luskin's smile was a teeth gritting grimace

which is what it looked like in the video footage.

[FreedomAngel82]

39. More than likely PR

Remember that's all these people have to do. Fake PR. Nothing going on here, move along.

[TerdlowSmedley]

26. Pigs always appear to be smiling.

[AX10]

2. When will the answer come?

Will there be indictments or not?

[H2O Man]

8. Good question.

I think that the next week will be satisfying for most DUers.

[Demobrat]

3. Sounds right.

Although it was a Friday afternoon. I might not go back to the office after jury duty either.

Somebody here said they read he was supposed to attend a fundraiser this weekend. I'd love to know if he showed up.

[Historic NY]

76. Nope he was a no-show for Rep. Gov. Va. fundraiser. n/t

[Pathwalker]

4. Question: with all the aspens turning, is it possible

that Cheny's group is setting Karl up to take the fall for this, and somehow get * in enough trouble that Cheney ends up President? This is my worst fear over this whole fiasco - could this possibly be what the neo cons are trying to accomplish.

[helderheid]

6. Cheney's health is an issue - I will say no more.

[Stephanie]

23. Why won't you say more!!!?

Oh you're such a tease! Another hint, please!

*edit* I'm sticking with my theory. Cheney resigns for "health reasons". He retires to the new estate he just bought in - where was it? Maryland? Then he's indicted - the whole plan against Wilson & Brewster Jennings was hatched by him and his crew. Rove rats him out. Why? Because Rove's a rat. He's either indicted or unindicted co-conspirator. Regardless, he's ruined. He attempts to continue to run the govt from his estate, in exile.

[yurbud]

36. I think you are close: my prediction is panicked reorganization

followed by collapse

[thinkingwoman]

44. I love this theory

I can just see it! ;-)

[EVDebs]

63. Reminds me of "the man without a country"

http://www.bartleby.com/310/6/1.html

Will Republicans banish him offshore ... to die aboard the US Corvette

"“Died, May 11, THE MAN WITHOUT A COUNTRY.” For it was as “The Man without a Country” that poor Philip Nolan had generally been known by the officers who had him in charge during some fifty years, as, indeed, by all the men who sailed under them. I dare say there is many a man who has taken wine with him once a fortnight, in a three years’ cruise, who never knew that his name was “Nolan,” or whether the poor wretch had any name at all...

There can now be no possible harm in telling this poor creature’s story. Reason enough there has been till now, ever since Madison’s administration went out in 1817, for very strict secrecy, the secrecy of honor itself, among the gentlemen of the navy who have had Nolan in successive charge...

Whether they really knew nothing about it, or whether it was a “Non mi ricordo,” determined on as a piece of policy, I do not know. But this I do know, that since 1817, and possibly before, no naval officer has mentioned Nolan in his report of a cruise. 3
But, as I say, there is no need for secrecy any longer. And now the poor creature is dead, it seems to me worth while to tell a little of his story, by way of showing young Americans of to-day what it is to be A MAN WITHOUT A COUNTRY."

Indeed, there is no need for secrecy any longer !

[H2O Man]

13. That's a key question ....

Will there be a significant shift in power in the administration? I don't think it is as simple as saying "bye" to Karl and letting Karen Hughes step in.

[kohodog]

49. She was part of the WHIG, no?

Before this is over lets hope that whole bunch is exiled.

[FreedomAngel82]

40. I think it could happen

They're turning on each other. I wouldn't hold out for president Cheney but anything could happen. I think now Rove is probably trying to get rid of Cheney and Cheney probably Rove/Bush. Each for his own.

[NoBushSpokenHere]

48. Sounds very likely

It would explain why the media has suddenly started reporting the news.

[NoBushSpokenHere]

50. The Sounds very likely post was a reply to the one

regarding - Could they be setting up Karl to take the fall so that Cheney can become prez post.

Other posts were posted in the duration, so my post didn't fall in line with the prior one...........is there a name for that?

[corbett]

71. I Noticed That, Too - Shocking! n/t

[writes2000]

7. Saw the same thing, H2O Man.

I think he knew that he'd be asked a lot of questions at the office. Plus, I'm sure he wanted to review the whole day with his attorney. They're figuring out what charges are coming and how best to fight them.

[H2O Man]

10. What do you make

of Matthews saying that "a defining moment" in the Bush presidency is coming up next week? He's said that several times in the past 36 hours. I think he knows.

[writes2000]

Matthews' Bush love is sickening

I agree with you. I do think he knows. And he's signalling that Bush or the indicted ones need to move immediately after indictments. I hated the way that Matthews framed it as heroic if Bush moves quickly to push Rove/Libby out of office.

[H2O Man]

18. Right.

He's a strange guy. I can appreciate that he knows that this can be a very difficult thing for the country. It can. Watergate was good in that it removed a cancer from the presidency, but it also posed risks for the country. So I can understand concerns about what this case can do; however, these criminals pose the risk. I do not think that Bush disapproves of the tactics Cheney and Libby used per say -- just that they got caught, and that Karl is in trouble.

[FreedomAngel82]

42. Probably

So that could mean that Bush could get indicted?? :shrug: And Matthews is a Boehmian Grove member now so I don't trust him at all.

[clichemoth]

60. Chris Matthews has an in at America's most evil annual frat party?

I'd never heard that one. I didn't think the TV talent was considered high-toned enough to hobnob with the neo-con leaders and captains of industry. Especially a "liberal" like Matthews.

Where did this info come from? Is there a list somewhere?

[ewagner]

24. I think he's been tipped off

by the Bushies that something big is coming down, or, more precisely, the Bushies EXPECT something big to come down. I also noticed that his commentary seemed to play Bush* himself as a victim of Scooter and Rove's (and possibly Cheney's) treachary which is a sure-fire giveaway that the info came from Bush*'s people and not Cheney's people.

The spin has begun. ...and, as usual, Tweety is repeating it chapter and verse for the stuffed flightsuit.

[Jackpine Radical]

52. Astute analysis, Ed.

We need more stute analyses.

[Me.]

59. I Think He's Been Tipped Off Too

But my theory is that Wilson is the one who did it, a quid pro quo for Mathews alerting Wilson that Rove said that, "Wilson's wife is fair game.

[CatWoman]

43. H2O Man -- check out Digby

he says Tweets knows a lot more than he's letting on:

http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2005_10_09_digbysblog_archive.html#112922516213666181

[H2O Man]

77. Yeah .....

I think he owes it to his audience to break his silence. At the very least, he needs to say that he is involved, and hence can not be objective in his reporting. That's not a bad thing, in and of itself. As a reporter, surely he would tell his audience that anything and everything that is said by Novak, Cooper, and Miller needs to be viewed in the context of their involvement.

His involvement is actually greater than having taken a call from Karl, and reported it to Wilson. In fact, he has more of a connection than having simply testified to the grand jury about the call. He clearly has information from one or more of the attorneys. I believe that it is most likely Libby's attorney (who would view Chris as implicating Karl, not Scooter), who has told him that Libby is indeed going to be indicted.

I'm surrised that DUers aren't e-mailing Chris, requesting that he just be honest about his role. Even if he doesn't spill the beans about his testimony, or his sources. Just show some respect for the intelligence of his audience.

[hvn_nbr_2]

68. Defining moment

I think we're about to see a defining moment in U.S. history. Either the whole gang of criminals goes down or we get an unmitigated fascist corporatist dictatorship. I think we find out this week. But based on signs of an awakening press (corporate press, in case I need to remind anyone), I think the corporatists have decided that this ship is sinking and they're getting ready to board another ship.

[Pithy Cherub]

9. Think there are two parts to Rove going home.

Not to talk to his co-workers and to make a decision on which co-workers to sell down the river. Fitzgerald laid out for him all of the unpalatable options. Rove needed peace and quiet to make some decisions. Rove's hiding out until such time as he accepts what's to happen. Retirement from a life of political crime has to be oh so hard for Rove, *cough* Haldeman *cough*, Rove.;)

[H2O Man]

14. Matthews

had brought up how hard it was for Nixon to fire those two. He quoted Nixon's, "I prayed that God wouldn't have me wake up this morning" (probably not an exact quote; I'm very tired).

[Pithy Cherub]

21. 30, April 1974 , Nixon's address from the Oval Office

from Bernstein & Woodwards, All the President's Men: "Today in one of the most difficult descisions of my Presidency, I have accepted the resignations of two of my closest associates...Bob Haldeman and -John Ehrlichman-two of the finest public servants it has been my privelege to know...The easiest course would be for me to blame those to who I delegate the responsibility to run the campaign. But that would be a cowardly thing to do..."

So I want to know if the White House speechwritiers are crafting something similar for bush right now.

Please, Please, get some sleep H20Man we NEED you over the next week, because it has *only just begun*... to borrow from a song from the era.

:popcorn:

[H2O Man]

25. It feels like

it may be a big week. I have to admit that I'm enjoying events quite a bit right now!

[Pithy Cherub]

34. Bush, a wannabe Reagan turns into Nixon before our eyes & TV's!

Yippee! :bounce: Right with you on the event enjoyment.

[thinkingwoman]

45. although the waiting is hard

it does give everyone time to catch their breath, get some rest, prepare for what's coming and, yes, savor some of the events already unfolding.

What happens next will either be very good or very bad for those of us who love truth and justice and this nation equally. If it is very good, we can celebrate (a LOT). If it is very bad (meaning no indictments, nothing, everybody gets away with it all) then we will need our strength and wits to fight this administration on some new front.

That being said, I truly believe the administration is going to take a hit and I think it will be big. I read upthread that you posted that Chris Matthews was talking about a "defining moment" and I believe he has wind of what's ahead. As I posted on another thread (of yours I think), it will shake this country to the core if most of the administration's key players are exposed for what we all know them to be.

History is about to happen. I have popcorn, booze, and a shotgun, so I think I'm ready. :toast:

[belle]

53. And it's not as though there aren't plenty of other fronts...

But I agree; something's in the works. and I think it'll just keep going, a series of explosions (see above re: plenty of other fronts).

knock wood and all that

[nannah]

61. "defining moment" could also be exoneration

I am like many here, hoping for justice and accountability for this administration. However terms like "defining moment" can go either way.... it could totally bail bush out of the hole he's in if he is exonerated because it will halt the flow of energy sweeping him down.

Sometimes he seems very smug to me when he is telling us to await the results of the investigation. I still feel unsure of what is coming from grand jury. I would gladly be helped to feel more confident that there will be indictments.

[thinkingwoman]

64. yes it could

both would be pivotal. You are right.

[SupplyConcerns]

69. Having turned 21 yesterday

I have my indictment celebration/fascism lamentation booze supply at the ready.

[thinkingwoman]

70. welcome to the age of legal drinking

:toast:

[MADem]

55. two of my closest associates....

Geez, what language, sounds like Tony Soprano!

[kster]

65. May have started long ago

if you recall the plane that got to close to the white house the media did go out of its way to tell us that * isn't always told about everything.

[mod mom]

73. yes, poppy would want to shield * from scandal to protect BFEE

legacy from tarnish. Poppy never liked rove and the others are dispensible as well-just as long as the bloodline is protected.

[demgrrrll]

11. I testified in court on a regular basis for many years. If someone has

just put you through the wringer you really do want to go home or anywhere but back to work. If he had done well and was out of the woods I think he would have gotten a second wind and gone back to work. Home is where you go when you need to get your bearings and find some comfort. If you are on top of the world because you hit a home run you want to go back to work.

[H2O Man]

16. I agree.

I used to testify frequently. There were days when I went back to work like nothing happened; there were days I went back to vent; and there were days when I went home and talked to myself.

[MADem]

54. If all went well, he'd go back to work, crack open some champagne

and GLOAT like the gloating bastard that he is. I think he got a cattle prod up the ass, myself, and he went home to crawl under the covers and sob like a whipped child.

[AllyCat]

12. What time did the California greenline terror alert end? nt

[Hapameli]

81. About 12:30 pm PST... with very little fanfare or information

[wellstone_democrat]

15. its the weekend and Bush went to Camp David

and nothing requiring hands-on mismanagement is going on this week..

[TahitiNut]

30. Interesting that Karl didn't go relax at Camp David.

:shrug:

[RememberWellstone]

17. He'll be gone in a week.

They are winding this case down and he will be "retiring" next week.

[Frustratedlady]

22. I still can't believe...

that GW and Cheney weren't up-to-speed on this Plame exposure. They both had to know what was coming down and when it was coming down. So, I'm thinking they are doing damage control on who will be sacrificed to save GW and Cheney's butts. (pun intended) Hopefully, Fitz will get them all -- namely, the WHIG group, at the very least.

[Fiendish Thingy]

75. If he gets the WHIG group, the pressure for impeachment will be immense...

I'm guessing that, at this point, he may indict Rove and Libby, and possibly a few other Cheney underlings, and then ask for an extension to the GJ to go after the entire WHIG...of course, that's assuming the GJ is going to indict, and hasn't been "gotten to" ala "Runaway Jury". Does it have to be unanimous?

[bobbieinok]

87. are Matalin and Hughes in the WHIG group??? Carville's Mary??

[Spazito]

19. I agree, he didn't have a fun time in front of the Grand Jury and

has gone home to lick his wounds. The next episode in this drama will be, imo, whether Libby is 'invited' back to the Grand Jury this week. Another thread has a post saying that he may be in front of the GJ by Wednesday of next week. If true, then all the main or semi-main players, depending on who are Fitzgerald's key targets, will have been forced to reveal more and more on each appearance. That cannot make bush and cheney feel very secure, imo.

Watching this evolve is absolutely fascinating, in good part because Fitzgerald and his team are so leak proof.

[H2O Man]

27. I have a feeling

that Libby's attorneys have already turned down Fitzgerald's invitation to come back and explain a few things.

I agree about Fitzgerald's making this even more interesting. It's something that our country is not used to -- a person who is not interested in the media -- and it has made it impossible for the corporate media to report this in their usual manner.

[Spazito]

33. If Libby refuses to appear, that is very telling for sure

It would seem to me that he is going to try and 'fall on his sword' to protect cheney and WHIG. I have NO doubt that Miller and Rove have filled in Libby and his legal team as to the line of questioning to which they were subjected and are attempting to divine what Fitzgerald may have in hand as hard evidence based on those questions.

It is also possible Libby has 'offered' to appear before the GJ to 'correct' his errors and Fitzgerald has replied as he did earlier to Rove ie Don't call us, we'll call you if and when needed.

From the WP article, and the leak from 'someone close to Rove' meaning his lawyer imo, it looks more and more likely that Rove is going to be indicted. Given this leak in the article:

"Rove's defense team asserts that President Bush's deputy chief of staff has not committed a crime but nevertheless anticipates that special prosecutor Patrick J. Fitzgerald could find a way to bring charges in the next two weeks, the source said."

One would have to wonder if Rove made a deal with the prosecutor for reduced charges and was unable to have the forthcoming charges dropped entirely?

[Beetwasher]

20. As I Said Yesterday, I Wouldn't Want To Have Been His Dog When He Got Home

He also probably needed to change his underwear. :evilgrin:

[H2O Man]

29. I'll bet he was

in an ugly, vicious mood. Safe to say that fellows like Cheney are pretty nasty to be around, too!

[ToolTex]

37. Can you imagine being in Lynn's & Dick's house.

I'll bet that the poor dog hides from both of them, and their servants.

[Olney Blue]

28. I hope he put in his leave request for time off.

[OxQQme]

32. So, what happens if he gets 'sacked'

from the spotlight? Seems like he could write scripts from his prison cell and continue in his role as 'advisor'. I'd imagine he would get into one of those 'country club' prisons with full internet(s) access and cellphne service.

[Bumblebee]

35. If the NYT article does come out in tomorrow's edition

or, quite possibly, later this afternoon, that would make for an exciting weekend. Tweety is in a funny situation. He, in many ways, helped start it all when he called Joe Wilson and told him "Rove thinks your wife is fair game." Now he is acting plain weird. Fearful? Remorseful? Afraid that conservatives will boycott Hardball? He does have some kind of an agenda beside his fondness for B.

[Catrina]

51. Maybe he's part of the propaganda machine

and was told to call Joe Wilson? Didn't he go before the GJ also?

His sudden interest in this case now when all he is talking about is information that was available before the election, is interesting.

Nothing really new has been revealed, other than Judy discovering some notes she had forgotten about. I think we already knew about the Rove email!

Chris' coverage of this story seems to be avoiding implicating Bush. He seems more concerned than anything else that his hero may fall, (which I have come to doubt) and makes sure to mention Clinton lying every chance he gets, without the qualifier that lies about sex are a little different than lies that get people killed.

I wish he would just be honest and stop pretending to be a journalist. He is, imo, a propagandist and 'Hardball' is not a good name for his show, unless his guest is an anti-war Democrat.

[caledesi]

38. I thought KKK said he was "going back to work." Another lie...

I think he took a beating, and knew he couldn't "fake it" at work.

Thug!

[Catherine Vincent]

41. That's a good point.

If he felt vindicated somehow or victorious, he would have gone back to the office. And guess who did go back to HIS office?

PATRICK FITZGERALD

:-)

[flying_wahini]

46. I am on pins and needles waiting

for it to all come crashing down...
I cannot wait to see what happens. It's almost like
I am 5 years old and it is Christmas eve......

[stubtoe]

67. I know!

That Christmas Eve tingle ... the anticipation is killing me

[Cocoa]

47. is it a "career decision day?"

that's what one place I worked at called it.

[Neil Lisst]

56. Testifying before a grand jury is hard. It's hard work!

Hard remembering all those lies and who he told them to!!


http://www.webcomicsnation.com/neillisst/

[leesa]

57. Let's hope he's packing his overnight bag for jail.

[Me.]

58. Judy's Out

indefinite leave

http://rawstory.com/news/2005/Reporter_in_leak_case_to_take_1015.html

[Gregorian]

62. Karl's not in the drivers seat.

He went home to try and figure out how to spin a monkey off his back.

[opihimoimoi]

66. Intercepted phone calls reveal a desperate Rove calling Bush

to beg for protection...crying even....

Bush, on the advice from lawyers, is refusing comment...even to Rove, until the issue is settled.

"But but...what if I am indicted? .,..."


"You often said yourself Karl..."its time to go fuck yourself..."

:sarcasm:

[lovuian]

72. LEAVE OF ABSCENCE for JUDY ROVE AND SCOOTER!!!

You will be hearing those words for these three!!!

[Demobrat]

82. Seems hers has already started.

One down, two to go.

[TacticalPeek]

74. And stayed home.

:)

Rove Cancels Appearance at Fundraiser for Kilgore
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=1852868&mesg_id=1852868


Nyuk nyuk nyuk.

[H2O Man]

78. So much for

the "gosh, Karl looked confident when he left the court" business.

[autorank]

79. Hey also missed a breakfast fund raiser in Fairfax Co Va -- 2005 election

He was to be the poobah at the Kilgore fundraiser in Fairfax Co. Nice place for breakfast too! Must have overslept after the spanking he took from Patrick F.

:spank:

[spuddonna]

80. Someone should go make sure KKKarl didn't take too many sleeping pills...

[autorank]

84. Is it "Valley of the Dolls" Time Yet;)

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

83. And this little piggie cried,. "Wee, wee, wee, wee,". All the way home

[GreenPartyVoter]

86. *lol* I hope he did.

[Just Me]

85. He's wondering: "Father like son? Will they chew him up, spit him out?"

The divisive bastard certainly outta' wonder how much he's REALLY worth to the BFEE. If it's between saving the power of the BFEE and the fascist-propagandist, Karl Rove,...

Well,...}(