Forget it.

[Ladyhawk]

I should have known GD would judge me.

[GrumpyGreg]

1. I would tread very carefully in this situation.

If he's an intelligent young man,and I'm sure he is,he will figure it out for himself.

[Ladyhawk]

5. Forget it.

[Selatius]

11. It's no guarantee though

Before 2000, I believed the propaganda about Bush being the lesser of two evils because he was in favor of small, limited government. I didn't vote in 2000, but if I did, I would've voted for Nader in Mississippi, a safe state. Only after did I truly define my political ideology.

My political ideology comes with an extremely strong left libertarian bent nowadays. You can call it Libertarian Socialism. People are not going to save themselves by sitting around and choosing somebody else to lead them. They're ultimately going to have to use their heads and their hands collectively and do it themselves together directly.

[IndyOp]

33. I am surrounded daily by 1000's of college students who are a LONG

way from figuring it out themselves.

:grr:

[jobycom]

2. I'd be more subtle

Preaching turns people away. When I was around that age, probably younger, my liberal, lesbian, former-nun, then military officer aunt came for a visit. When she left, I found a copy of Catcher in the Rye and Siddhartha on my dresser. She knew I read a lot, she guessed I was ready to have an open-mind experience, and she never did anything that would give my (then) Reagan supporting religious parents a reason to accuse her of meddling.

Great books. Didn't change my life or mindset, since I was heading that way, anyway. But it did give me a realization that I wasn't the only one who saw the world differently than the way it had been taught to me until then.

I don't know what would affect your nephew like that. But that's how my aunt influenced me.

[FreedomAngel82]

3. That would be a good idea

A simple way. Maybe you can give him "God's Politics" from Jim Wallis. I've heard good reviews from people on all side of the political isle. An idea like that would be a good idea though. Something non-threatning.

[Ladyhawk]

6. Forget it.

[jobycom]

23. I was thinking something more subtle.

All Quiet on the Western Front, or My Brother Sam is Dead (may be a bit young for him). If it's a book and if he'd read something like that. He may not be a reader, in which case you'd have to be more creative. Something to open his mind, so he feels he is discovering the thought for himself, not being lectured by an aunt that his parents may have warned him about.

That could be a topic for a whole thread. "List books or movies for teens with a liberal message" or something like that.

Maybe Orwell. 1984 or Animal Farm. Something to make him start hearing Bush as he is, rather than through the ears of his parents.

Fortunately, I converted my parents, and my sister is apolitical (a polite way to say "drunk all the time"), so I can preach to my nieces all day long. Even better, they don't need it!

[FizzFuzz]

7. wouldn't mind meeting your aunt

She sounds terrific

Bet she is a really fascinating person :)

[jobycom]

24. She is.

I don't see her enough. I saw her after Katrina, because her last career was in the medical profession, and she volunteered to help out in Mississippi, where my mother (her sister) lives. She worked my lazy butt into the ground during the day, then pulled hospital shifts at night while I slept, then took a nap and did it all again the next day.

[FizzFuzz]

29. You live in Missippi? Woa, that sounds like a helluva time

to see her after a long stretch.

she outclasses me, I can say that for sure! :D

[jobycom]

41. I live in Austin, but I'm from Gulfport, and my parents live there. nt

[FizzFuzz]

4. I can relate to the repulsion feelings

Its very tough, and I don't even have a close relationship like yours to have to deal with it.

My dealing is just at work; drives me nuts but doesn't sound anything like your situaion

The best first step I can offer if you're feeling anxious about doing a specific thing, just grit your teeth and think before you act. Then wait to see what seems like the next right thing.

---next right thing to do, I mean---

[Ladyhawk]

9. Forget it.

[mzteris]

12. sounds like he's trying to

reconnect somehow.

I KNOW how you feel. Really. I've been avoiding my siblings because I'm afraid of how the conversation will turn.

[Ladyhawk]

20. Forget it.

[FizzFuzz]

27. he'd been calling alot cuz your mother's been pushing him to?

Like she's WANTING you to react to her, looks like to me

[Ladyhawk]

31. Forget it.

[FizzFuzz]

34. I don't need to know why she wants to have you watched,

but it still sounds to me like she is Looking for a reaction from you. You might want to hold off on doing anything other than seeing if you can open any conversation with the kid, just between the two of you. Keep it light, but empathetic, listen more than you talk, get an idea of what's going on.

Then you will know what to do.

[mzteris]

8. um - much as I sympathize

are you sure this is the right tack to take?

What do you know about your nephew? Will he just automatically turn it over to his dad (probably) - and there goes any hope in hell of you guys EVER reconciling? (Who knows, bubba may see the light someday..)

Maybe you could write something a little less "in your face" - something about how you miss spending time with him. MAYbe even say it's because of your political differences, but sort of gloss over those yet making the point subtly that there IS another POV "out there".

You can express your concern for his step/brother(?) going to Iraq (or whoever it is that's going). Don't RAIL against Bush or the corrupt war and all that. Just a simple how you pray/keephiminyourthoughts/hopehecomeshomesafe kind of thing and how you really pray that the war is all over before he gets much over. Make it a positive letter in as much as you can. Make the kid WANT to talk to you and not avoid you.

Try to build a BRIDGE that can be built upon later.

I really understand what you want to do, but as my grandpa always used to say, "you can catch a lot more flies with honey than with vinegar."

[Ladyhawk]

13. Probably subltle would be better, but I have no intention of

"reconciling" with my brother. We've never had a good relationship and it's only become worse in the past few years. I am not openly hostile, but I really have no desire to spend time with him. If I could, I'd ignore him completely.

[mzteris]

14. so why do you think

you're brother's trying so hard to reconnect with you? Has to be something going on in his fat head.

[Ladyhawk]

19. Forget it.

[Fridays Child]

10. Good for you. You're talking about possibly saving your nephew's life.

I would point him toward Aidan Delgado and Stan Goff, for starters. Good luck in your efforts! :hug:

[Ladyhawk]

15. You're the only one who hasn't urged caution or subtlety.

Could you expound on why you think I should be more brazen? :)

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Ladyhawk]

38. You know, it's interesting how you didn't bother to read my other posts.

I was weighing all the options, but quite honestly, you are attacking me personally. You don't know any of the background behind any of this, yet you judge. Shame on you.

[havocmom]

39. Gee, I would LOVE to be able to read your other posts

but since you edited them out after others have responded, not much chance of knowing what the hell is going on.

Not good form, posting then editing the posts down to Forget It after people have replied. Sorta like changing the question AFTER others have answered the original version. Just not fair to those who took the time to respond.

[FizzFuzz]

44. gee, I was wondering what the heck happened!

couldn't figure out what was going on

[havocmom]

46. Am guessing someone did not get resounding support for SOMETHING

or other, and instead of making their case, just threw a tantrum via the backspace button on their keyboard, leaving the replies hanging in the air. But us late arrivers really don't know, and that sure does not seem to be in keeping with the whole purpose of discussion.

Aren't there some sort of rules against that sort of editing out after replies?

[FizzFuzz]

47. not that I know of

guess it must have been a pretty painful issue.

:shrug:

[havocmom]

50. Ya know, when somebody has a medical problem and they ask for advice

the thread gets locked with a kind, well meant recommendation from the mod that the OP seek medical attention for professional health care.

While I truly believe there are many decent, caring, and rational DUers here who often come up with great, insightful suggestions, sometimes we might consider that an anonymous public forum is not the best place to go for family counseling ;)

And I always liked the idea that one shouldn't ask a question unless they really want an answer. There are canyons and walls to talk to for those who only seek an echo.

Or is that just me? :evilgrin:

[Fridays Child]

40. You know him better than we do...

...but this is not the time to pussyfoot around. I see your effort as, quite possibly, saving his life. And it seems that you may not get many chances to be an influence.

In light of the gravity of the situation, I would put all of my cards right out there on the table. Regarding communication techniques, I would be assertive but I'd employ reflection, validation, and "I messages." I would give him good information and let him know that I think he's intelligent enough to analyze the facts and draw good conclusions.

[gumby]

16. If your nephew uses the Internet(s),

perhaps starting a pen-pal relationship would help you to get connected. I don't know how useful just handing him a packet of information would be. If you wrote to each other, then you might learn how to say what you want within his framework. You could send him links saying, "have you seen this?"

Do I have this 'right'? Your Bush loving brother and your hyper-religious ex-sister-in-law are separated/divorced? Where are their 'family values?'

[Ladyhawk]

17. Forget it.

[kath]

18. Check out Project YANO's website. They have some very good pamphlets

there. Here in red-state hell (OK) our local library actually had a stack of one of them ("The Military's Not Just a Job...It's Eight Years of Your Life: What You Should Know Before Joining the Military") in their pamphlet racks a while back - what a shock! Very good stuff. It looks like this organization is doing very good work. As many youth as possible should read their materials, IMO. Wouldn't be a bad idea to stand outside high schools and hand them out...

http://www.projectyano.org/yano_resources.html#a

[nashbridges]

21. I think it is fucked up

You cannot talk to your own brother. I think it is further fucked up that you would write about it here. Take the time you would otherwise use to check posts here and talk to your brother. If he refuses - try harder.

And when it all fails? DO IT AGAIN!

[Ladyhawk]

28. Forget it.

[nashbridges]

37. Yes, I do know your brother,

I have a twin who does not agree with me. Be respectful, always. ALWAYS.

[kweerwolf]

22. If your nephew's been "preached at" by his parents ...

... chances are he'll resent being "preached at" by you.

I think the best thing you could tell him is that he's an intelligent young man and you trust him to think for himself in a world where there is so many conflicting points of view.

Talk to him as an adult ... show him you respect him as a person ... and let him know that, despite your estrangement from his father, he'll always be important to you.

[NNN0LHI]

25. Trying to scare the lad away from military and war is like...

...trying to scare him away from trying to smoke pot. The scare tactics even when true, has shown not to work well on adolescents.

Be better to find out what his interests are and try and encourage him to further those interests. Sports, science, biology, whatever his interests may be give him plenty of encouragement all the while steering him away from the military in a subtle way.

Perhaps you could take him to a ball game or hockey game? Don't have to be professional either. Even local stuff is fun. One of my favorites is high school basketball. Close, cheap, and a nice evening out. Take him to the golf range and drive a bucket of balls. He might be a natural? Anything.

Good luck for both of you.

Don

[GrumpyGreg]

30. Nice post,- I read once that is easier to have a serious chat with

a boy while doing something else,like driving golf balls, tossing a ball around---even taking a long walk.

I raised 3 boys and 2 girls and this makes perfect sense to me.

[Danger Duck]

26. Wow.

I would flip out if one of my relatives came to my son for the sole purpose of undermining my values, religion, ect....

You have a problem with your brother, its not normal to feel so repulsed by someone your related to, despite political; differences. No one lives in a bubble, and we have to work and get along with different people every day.

Everyone has th opportunity to pursue their own paths, and playing the crazy aunt cad will push your nephew further away from you and you will be cut out of his life.

If you really believe that parents have that much influence over a child's mind, that without your intervention, he will think and act a certain way, then we are all doomed. No one has free will or intelligence, all behavior and thought is learned, and inevitable.

This is not the case, and your actions are a transparent way of getting back at your brother. Please don't do this, as it will just become an anecdote that will most likely solidify a few more republican votes, and scare your nephew into neocon land forever.

[Ladyhawk]

35. This wasn't what I had in mind. I grew up in a bubble, so yes, it happens

And yes, my parents had that much influence over my mind. I was raised fundy, in a fundy school, in a fundy church. I never heard any other point of view until I was over eighteen. So, yes, it happens. And it's harmful.

Hopefully, my nephew isn't this isolated. Luckily, he's gone to a public school, so he's probably been exposed to more points of view than I was.

And no, my motivation isn't to "get back" at my brother. I'm more concerned about my nephew.

I should never have posted this. I should have known people in GD want to judge with no real information.

[Bluebear]

42. "people in GD want to judge with no real information."

Hey now. We aren't all evil over here!

And now I am dying to see what I am supposed to "forget" about!!! ;)

Anyhow, something is distressing to you Ladyhawk and I hope it works itself out for you. :hug:

[seabeyond]

36. mind your own business, for many reasons. i say this respectfully

let it alone. this boy is your brothers to raise, not yours, and as you would not allow brother to do the same with your child, especially behind your back, really it applies to your brothers son. i am sorry you feel as you do about brother. i have a brother that is right wing. he gives me his daughter to raise, and we talk politics in my house, i know it bugs him. he doesnt have to give me her to raise. but i would never contradict what my brother teaches his daughter either. i would never tell his daughter her father is wrong. that would just be stepping over the line. and i would never do something i know my brothers are opposed to their children. just wrong. leave it alone, please. it is just wrong

[lpbk2713]

43. WTF?

:wtf:

[Ladyhawk]

45. Explanation: I had a very distressing evening.

All I wanted was a bit of guidance. Some of you were kind and thoughtful and offered good advice. Thank you. But some wanted to judge me based on my relationship--or lack thereof--with my brother.

You don't know my family. You don't know my brother. You don't know me. You don't know how I've agonized over my nephew. I'm not going to bother to give you a family background.

Just never mind, okay? I should never have posted this on GD in this state of mind. I'm distraught over my nephew. I'm distraught over family relationships. I'm distraught over this fucking war.

I should have known better than to trust GD with my feelings.

End of story.

[seabeyond]

48. i know ladYhawk there is much more to your family story

and i am sorry you are feeling so stressed by all this. sometimes you have to let thingsgo, sometimes it is people you have to let go. i do wish you the best on all this. that best may be you just not particpating anymore

my kids were in fundie school for 6 years. i know the damage it does to the children. we arent fundies, so for my kids it was more observation of a cult like enviroment, using christs teachings. a good lesson for boy, an insight for me with these children and their families. if that nephew leans his father way an hour chat wont do anything but escalate problems in family

[EFerrari]

49. Ladyhawk

Pm me if you want to. GD can be a free for all. But remember, you have many, many friends here. And, we're still here.

I'll be up for a coupla hours. And send thoughts and wishes your way.

[prolesunited]

51. You should never trust a bunch of strangers

on an Internet message board with your feelings. This isn't a support group; it's a political message board.

Also, when you solicit advice or opinions, it's not always what you want to hear. Not everyone will see things the same way.

Just take the comments you feel are useful and chuck the rest.

[proud patriot]

52. I'm locking this thread

The original poster has deleted the original
post . Locking is the best option at this point .

proud patriot Moderator
Democratic Underground