If Miller, Libby, Rove et al all have conflicting testimony, or "I forgot"

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

testimony and don't incriminate each other, will it be possible for Fitzgerald to secure any convictions? This is the depressing prospect of the whole thing...

[Craig3410]

1. Can't they all plead the Fifth, though?

Can some lawyers fill me in on this?

[joemurphy]

5. I don't think they can testify before a grand jury (and not take the

5th there) and then later attempt to take the 5th at trial. I'd think the right of protection against self-incrimination would be deemed waived. Maybe there's a criminal lawyer here who can address this. I do bankruptcy work so it's not my forte.

[babylonsister]

2. Miller spent 85 days in jail for a reason that was

resolved after she talked. That's after Libby gave her permission, supposedly. I think Fitz has a case and is just tying the ends together. Next week I suspect we'll know.











Or not...:evilgrin:

[proud2BlibKansan]

3. As long as that grand jury has been in session

surely there will be at least one indictment.

[aquart]

4. Juries get to decide who's lying, NOT the defendants.

It's pretty normal for guilty people to lie and claim innocence.

Feel better now?

[unpossibles]

6. not really. I remember the Iran Contra thing

that everyone got away with...

[Karmakaze]

8. Um no - many people were charged and some convicted...

some even spent time in jail over the Iran/Contra scandal.

What allowed them to "get away" with it was presidential pardons.

[DoYouEverWonder]

12. Part of the problem with Iran Contra

was that most of the people involved testified before Congress first, with agreements that their Congressional testimony couldn't be used in their criminal trials. Nice trick.

Maybe this is one of the reasons the DEMS haven't pushed for Congressional hearings, they've learned the hard way that it's not always a good idea to put the cart before the horse.

[Karmakaze]

7. Miller put the nail in Libby's coffin...

She said she told the Grand Jury that Libby exposed Plame BEFORE the Wilson article. She said: "My notes indicate that well before Mr. Wilson published his critique, Mr. Libby told me that Mr. Wilson's wife may have worked on unconventional weapons at the C.I.A."

That is evidence of at least ONE crime by Libby. If Libby didn't tell the GJ this, then that is evidence of ANOTHER crime by Libby. If Libby didn't tell the GJ who told him what Plame's job was that is evidence of ANOTHER crime by libby.

Revealing classified information (two charges: espionage act and intelligence agents identity protection act) purjury, obstruction of justice and possibly conspiracy.

Libby is in deep shit.

I'm wondering if Libby got word to Miller that he had decided to take the fall to cover for others, and THAT is why she finally testified, because with that one statement, Miller has hung Libby out to dry.

[Garbo 2004]

9. Those kind of folks don't volunteer to go to the slammer for others.

They're not Liddy types who would take the fall.

[Karmakaze]

11. If someone higher would get hit they would...

besides if he insulates the President and Vice-President he gets his pardon...

[Spinzonner]

10. Throw them all in jail and let God sort out

the one's who violated their oath.

[H2O Man]

13. Miller's testimony

to the grand jury was very damaging to Libby. I am basing this, of course, on her article in today's paper. I think that Libby will be convicted on a couple charges, without question. He has certainly committed perjury, and seems to have tried to influence a witness with his line about, "The public report of every other reporter's testimony makes clear that they did not discus Ms. Plame's name or identity with me." Miller notes that she told Fitzgerald and the grand jury that "this portion of the letter had surprised me because it might be perceived as an effort by Mr. Libby to suggest that I, too, would say we had not discussed Ms. Plame's identity. Yet my notes suggested that we had discussed her job."

Those who have looked closely see that not only did Libby reveal that Plame worked at Winpac (Weapons Intelligence, Non-Proliferation, and Arms Control, a select unit in the CIA), but also that Wilson was a "clandestine guy." Thanks, Scooter. Asshole.

[Neil Lisst]

14. Mayberry Machiavelli, you asked a good question.

"If Miller, Libby, Rove et al all have conflicting testimony, or "I forgot" testimony and don't incriminate each other, will it be possible for Fitzgerald to secure any convictions?
----------------------------------------------------

YES.

Here is why.

He has some witnesses who are very clear, remember things well, don't seem to be trying to make their story end up anywhere. The grand jury, and later the petit jury, will hear all these witnesses. Jurors judge witness credibility. They take into account when someone who is articulate and brilliant suddenly stamers and can't recall something, or recalls it wrong.

My guess is the liars stand out like sore thumbs before the GJ. Lying under oath on multiple occasions for hours at a time without having your attorney to protect you? Sheesh. In that circumstance, people who tell the truth have a contenance different from those who don't. Remembering the truth is easier than remembering which lie you told and who you told it to.