Just why did they go after Joe Wilson and his wife ?

[kentuck]

Why was it so important that they felt they had to tear them down? What is the real answer? What did they hope to accomplish?

[eleny]

1. Wilson exposed the big lie

Discredit Wilson and people won't believe him.

[Lex]

3. How exactly does showing his wife to be undercover CIA discredit him?

[Aimah]

7. Exposing

I don't think it was to discredit him. I think it was done to scare him and shut him up.

[melody]

28. These are emotionally backward cretins - it was revenge n/t

[eleny]

9. They said he was anti administration....

And that it was his wife who sent him on the mission. Recently, I even heard a FoxNews person say that Wilson went to Niger purposefully to assert that Saddham was not trying to purchase yellow cake.

They were hoping to discredit them both. Also, teach a lesson to anyone else who thought of coming forward.

[Hekate]

21. It was standard criminal "protection" racket behavior

"Pretty little wife you got there, bud. Keep your mouth shut and nothing will happen to her, get it?"

Wilson opened his mouth and his wife's career got ruined, and everyone she ever contacted abroad in any capacity was compromised or worse.

Go back and read "The Godfather" by Mario Puzo -- or watch "Law and Order" -- anyhow, just try to think like a crime lord. After all, we don't call them the Bush Family Evil Empire for nothing.

Hekate

[Lex]

24. I just don't think it's that simple.

I think TahiniNut in post #17 is close to what the truth is about destroying Plame and thereby destroying Brewster Jennings Co.

[Hekate]

32. Of course it isn't: there are many layers of complexity

Several people said they couldn't understand why the Bushites would do such a thing, or what they could possibly gain.

Some of the answers here are quite good. All I did was address the inherent thuggery that is one layer of this seamy power-play.

Hekate

[neuvocat]

4. Asassinating their character is standard Rove procedure.

[Lex]

6. Revealing her as undercover CIA doesn't assasinate her character

or his either.

I don't get the motivation exactly.

[havocmom]

20. She ran a network which monitored the movement of weapons material

Since the outing, that network is destroyed. One might guess the movement of weapons materials is now less reliably monitored. So, it might just be easier for various groups to keep wars, terrorist attacks and various threats going.

Now, why would anyone do THAT?

As Deep Throat so wisely said a few years back: FOLLOW THE MONEY.

Who profits from on going warfare? Who maintains power when masses feel threatened and can be easily manipulated because of fear? Who can most easily move ANYTHING in the world?

Follow the money. Look at who profits.

Making Wilson look bad is a nice, fairly reasonable excuse, but I agree with you: It does not really make much sense.

Cover story. One must always have a good cover story if their real agenda is particularly hateful. And outing Plame to punish Wilson and threaten anyone else who dares speak truth does fit the Rove style, doesn't it?

Must really piss Karl off that Cheney played him so easily. Let us hope Karl stays VERY pissed. Divide and conquer, a method the junta has employed so skillfully might just be their downfall.

If you want to do some real thinking on this issue, look up posts on the subject by DUer H2O Man. Lots to sift thru, but you will find much info and good insight.

[itzamirakul]

36. I have been pondering this same question also....

It didn't seem to make sense that outing a man's wife as a secret agent would hurt the man or his wife but would really hurt the nation instead.

Your answer as to the weapons movement and money begins to make things fall into place more realistically.

After all, didn't Prescott Bush sell weapons to the enemy in WWII? I wouldn't be surprised to find out that some of the same dirty dealing is still going on...hence the no-bid contracts for Haliburton so there is no paper trail.

Now, with your anwer, I begin to wonder if Wilson was not set up in order to get rid of his wife?

[havocmom]

45. Don't think ol Prescott Bush sold weapons. He was a banker.

He did make money for the Nazis so they could buy weapons.

These days, it would seem BFEE has cut the middle man and gone direct. Business is probably good, due to the destabalizing effect BUSHCO has had on the whole world.

[neuvocat]

49. You are obviously correct.

I must not have been in a very good frame of mind when I read the original.

[PurityOfEssence]

44. Wilson himself says it's to scare others who might come forward

Yes, they wanted to discredit him by making him look like an opportunist who only got a gig because of his wife. (These hyper-masculine types are sickening, aren't they?) Still, as Wilson has repeatedly said, it's more of a warning to others: if you come forward, we will destroy your career and your family's livelihood.

Most of the people in a position to really blow the various lids off of the various criminal conspiracies would be unable to make a living and would be seriously disgraced. We're talking about young and middle-aged bureaucrats like intelligence analysts. If they violated their oaths or somehow helped important information find the light of day, they would be ruined.

It was a little bit of revenge and an attempt to discredit him, but it was mostly a warning shot to everyone else.

He's said it all along; I don't know why it doesn't make perfect sense to people. Things rarely happen for just one reason, usually there's a lot going on to drive an action like this.

[immoderate]

2. My opinion:

These are mean and small minded people. They want any who might oppose them to live in fear.

--IMM

[DesertRat]

5. Revenge

Joe Wilson let the American people know that the Bush administration lied about Iraq's alleged attempt to purchase uranium yellowcake from Niger. Rove wanted petty revenge so he outed Wilson's wife, Valerie, a CIA agent.
At that time she was actually investigating illegal proliferation of weapons of mass destruction. When Rove blew her cover to the US press, everyone who had ever been seen with her in Africa or Asia was put in extreme danger. It is said that some of her contacts may have been killed. Imagine the setback to the US struggle against weapons of mass destruction proliferation that this represents. Rove marched us off to Iraq, where there weren't any. But he disrupted a major effort by the CIA to fight WMD that really did exist.

[babylonsister]

8. It's not Wilson, it's Plame, or should be. And B&J, and the CIA. nt

[texpatriot2004]

10. They had something to hide, something big. What are they

hiding? What are they hiding?

[Carolab]

11. Blew apart Val's network and what she was uncovering.

The WMD deals that were being made that the WH didn't want known.

[Lex]

12. So Cheney & Bush had to blow the cover of Plame's whole network

so they could place the WMD's in Iraq to justify the war?

So, Step 1 was accomplished.

Why did Step 2 fall apart?

[eleny]

14. What is your theory, Lex?

[Lex]

22. Pretty much what TahiniNut says in Post #17.

Seems like there is more benefit for Cheney destroying Brewster Jennings (Plame's carefully created intelligence "company") than for just "getting back" at Joseph Wilson. I'm sure Brewster Jennings was getting in the way of illegal arms sale all over the world that Cheney and the Bush family has their hand in. Plus, I think the Administration wanted to place WMDs in Iraq and shout "See? We told you!"

Maybe 2 birds with 1 stone, though.

[eleny]

25. Yes, many birds with one stone

One thing for sure is that it's as complicated as it gets. No wonder Fitz has taken so long to get anywhere. And there are still no assurances that anyone will get indicted.

[Carolab]

16. No, what Brewster Jennings & Val were uncovering about WMDs elsewhere

...deals that the US was making with other nations

[eleny]

18. And this administration is hostile to the CIA

That fact is old news but I thought to mention it. :)

[kestrel91316]

26. One wonders what Poppy thinks of this........

[H2O Man]

39. The senior Bush

belonged to a rather conservative, "old school" faction of the Agency. He made the infamous statement about what disgusting slime those who expose agents are. Perhaps equally interesting is that he has expressed his feelings about this situation in a private communication to Wilson. While I disagree with Bush1 in almost every area of politics, I am sure he is fully aware of the danger of an outside intelligence group attacking the CIA.

[Historic NY]

13. What he didn't find in Africa contradicted what they were saying....

http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0706-02.htm

[proud patriot]

15. To protect PNAC

IMHO

[TahitiNut]

17. It destroyed Brewster Jennings & Associates covert operations.

It was the covert field operatives using Brewster Jennings & Associates as a cover, including Valerie Plame, and their network of contacts that probably provided the bulk of the intelligence contrary to the Niger Uranium hoax and the 'Curveball' dis-intelligence. Some where among them it's possible that the fraudulent intel operation run by the neocon/PNAC hawks was being uncovered.

As bad as political revenge is, I believe it's probably a 'cover' motivation for the more malicious and criminal activities beneath.

[truth2power]

41. What you (and havocmom #20 above) say

makes more sense to me than any other scenario.

I've found nothing to contradict my assessment that the only real reason was to take down Brewster Jennings. May have had to do with planting WMDs in Iraq or with WMD proliferation by Cheney/Halliburton, or both. I'm convinced that Cheney is up to his filthy neck in all of this.

[TahitiNut]

43. I believe a DisIntel operation has been globally active for over 15 years

... involving far-right corporatists in the Middle East and elsewhere. I believe a cancer (or more than one) has been growing within the CIA ever since Poppy Bush was Director, and especially since his tenure as President and the end of the Cold War when it was openly discussed in the media that the CIA's "mission" should be refocused on global economics - i.e. as a "business intelligence" agency on behalf of Global American Corporatism.

The CIA is NOT a monolithic organization. It's highly compartmentalized and stratified. Even the Director has not been comprehensively aware of all the details and tactical operations. The politicization of the CIA has been a concern/fact ever since the Dulles brothers in the 50's.

On top of the corruption within the CIA, we've had a coordinated growth of false intel on a global scale. The Niger Yellowcake Hoax was just a minor and visible indication. We've also had 'Curveball,' torture, and insane interactions/collusions with Mossad and Pakistan's ISI.

Many of these activities are orchestrated by the same people within the Bushoilini Regime with such a penchant for secrecy, disinformation, stealth, and "might makes right" policies both overseas and domestically.

[Metta]

19. Soil the messenger. Distract and hope it sticks.

It worked for quite a while.

[Check12]

23. I don't buy the prevailing theories

Theory 1.

They did it just to get back at Wilson for exposing them as liars.
The reason I don't buy this is Rove is too smart to risk outing a CIA operative for little political gain. The risk to reward balance is not worth it.

Theory 2.

They did it to send a message to other administration critics. If you fuck with us we will ruin your career or someone in your family.
Again the risk vs reward factor is too high.

My Theory.

We know their was a battle about Iraq intelligence between the neocons and the CIA. I think Valerie Wilson was a casualty in ways that we don't know and maybe never will. I just don't think Wilson's allegations were that important. The neocons know that white girls missing in aruba would eventually flush Wilson's criticisms down the memory hole. There was another reason for wanting to expose Ms. Plame and her CIA front company. There has to be another reason.

[Karmakaze]

29. Miller testified that Libby exposed Plame BEFORE Wilson's article

That means the exposure was NOT done as a response to the article. The real reason must be something else.

[Baconfoot]

34. In all fairness, they might have anticipated the article. Nonetheless...

Nonetheless, I don't think it's reasonable to say the primary motive behind the outing was just "getting back" at Joe Wilson. As a poster mentioned, the benefit to Bushco is too small to be worth the risk.

They also didn't need to send a message to critics of the administration. Everyone already knows the risk of being a critic of the administration. Besides, if we are being honest with ourselves we should admit that what Wilson was saying did not successfully filter down into the public awareness. His information never materialized as a real threat to the administration.

So what WERE they trying to accomplish primarily?
What would be worth SUCH a great risk?
The real question seems to be what information, precisely, did they not want to get out which was not already revealed by Joe Wilson and which we STILL don't know?

Two years this plot has been developing. I can't stand it anymore!
Indict already!

[kentuck]

27. Maybe because he was a Democrat ?

Does Rove or Bush need any more reason than that? Besides, they were in the middle of their big marketing scheme - once we see the mushroom cloud , it will be too late. We know he has WMDs and we know where they are, Rumsfeld said. What gall Joe Wilson had to interrupt their marketing plan to sell Saddam's mushroom cloud by totally discounting their entire theory...and he being a Democrat too...

[Carolab]

30. Excellent article ties the outing to ARAMCO (energy)

http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/060804_coup_detat.html

[Lexingtonian]

31. Because they were flying high and felt Above It All

Wilson was the unwanted guy at the party, not catching on that the whole idea of this Iraq thing was to get drunk with power and feel invincible and beat up on some Third World people and steal their lunch money. A square like him was unwanted as a poop in the punch bowl. So, feeling all full of themselves and entitled to having A Good Time without the annoyance of a moralizer, they got together and threw him out in the street and gave his wife a bitchslap too just to round out the moment.

He was harshing their mellow. He was killing their buzz. He was freaking on a good trip. He was being a f-ing downer while everyone else was getting high. He was the guy ratting out the gang to his dad the cop.

Outing Valerie Plame is ultimately a pretty small crime, as crimes go in a legal and empirical sense. But it was a crime born of hubris and secret fear, utterly senseless until you see the context of people operating without any grip on reality and in fact full of groupthink that they had eluded reality's grip on themselves.

As an offense in a social and political sense, though, it's so revealing of a group of people operating outside any pretense of morality or the rule of law that the political sentencing upon trial and conviction has to be political capital punishment.

[H2O Man]

33. Good thread.

Good question, and good answers!

[Neil Lisst]

35. They went after Joe Wilson because they go after anyone ...

They go after anyone who causes that much trouble for the Bush plan.

[Tsiyu]

37. All bad smells lead back to the Fascists

She was no doubt eventually going to discover that, bottom line, Bush & Co. were making some $$$ selling weapons to terrorists.

That's what I believe.

[Junkdrawer]

38. ARAMCO...

From DKOS:

Not often talked about is how the traitor Robert Novak also exposed Plame's CIA Front Operation that she helped run: Brewster-Jennings & Associates (this phony company has nothing to do with the real Brewster Jennings, a founder of Mobil Oil). Over decades, the CIA had built up the fake firm and through it insinuated agents to keep an eye on not only WMD, but also ARAMCO, Saudi Arabia and their oil production and politics. Hundreds of agents have worked for Brewster Jennings and Associates. Traitor Novak imperiled all of their lives and the lives of their informants.

Now the US is flying blind--just how Cheney wanted it.

Much more on the flip!
...


http://sparky-mcgruff.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/7/3/16838/88864

[Carolab]

46. See my post #30 for much more on ARAMCO. n/t

[spanone]

40. Cause Karl & Company will 'fuck you over' if you fuck with them.

When you lie you are paranoid. The MONEY being made off this war is obscene. It's like the mob, don't fuck with the money-stream.

[in_cog_ni_to]

42. The WMD LIE. They knew they were lying and Valerie Plame

probably knew too. Wasn't her job to make sure WMD didn't end up in the hands of rogue nations? THIS rogue nation, the United States of America, probably wanted to get their hands on them to plant them in Iraq. Just a guess. They HAD to get rid of her.

[newspeak]

47. no, I really believe

they were after Brewster-Jennings. I think they wanted to take the whole network down---so why would they take down a network tracking WMD and proliferation? maybe, one reason is that some influential corporations (can we guess which ones) are making bucks selling to rogue states (not including ours) and another reason might be taking down a network that tracks WMD's of countries that they want to start wars with, including Iraq.

[newspeak]

48. Also, I think the spin

the spin is revenge against Joe Wilson, but I think it was already in the works before his report....to me, it was to take down the network which is TREASON!!