If Dems don't step up, we could be looking at a McCain presidency in '09

[Stevendsmith]

I posted this before and a lot of people thought this scenario was highly unlikely because the Rethug base does not support McCain. I think the lack of support from the base could be easily overcome by the legions of "moderate" voters (Democrats very much inlcuded) who LOVE McCain, and who fail to recognize that he is an Iraq hawk, anti-choice, conservative Republican.

I think we underestimate the potential of a McCain presidency at our own peril.

The man is beloved by millions.

[Metta]

1. Yes, he's a lock step, ass kissing Republican

I'm deeply troubled by his relentless support of things *.

[jillan]

2. Funny that you mentioned that

There was an op-ed in my paper today about McCain, saying that the timing is right for him. He will be another FDR for his party.

He is going to appeal to the moderate repugs that have had enough of the extremism of their party.

[NNguyenMD]

34. then he will have to be Swiftboated, not saying I approve it but his...

Silence in 2004 for so long before his half-hearted cry of disgust is an obvious sign that he doesn't disapprove of attack politics.

[MuseRider]

3. I think you are right.

He seems to be the biggest threat so far, at least from what I here in Kansas. I have yet to understand why so many Democrats like him. He has some good ideas, has done some good things but he is still very conservative and not someone that I see the left supporting if they take the time to really research him.

There are some here who like him. To each his own I suppose but he will never get my vote.

[Tempest]

4. McCain wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing

He's a moderate who's against the war, pro-choice, pro-environment, anti-PNAC and fiscally conservative.

In other words, the anti-Bush.


But because he's the anti-Bush, the neo-cons and religious rightwing who control the GOP will never allow him to be nominated.

[OKNancy]

8. McCain is NOT PRO CHOICE

He is a right winger in every way, shape and form. How in the world someone can call him a moderate is beyond me.

[Zynx]

13. I agree. McCain generally is pretty far right.

He is anti-tax cut generally and supports a balanced budget, but that's not so much a liberal position so much as it is an old school conservative position.

[Pushed To The Left]

15. America has gone so far to the right

that somebody like McCain appears moderate by comparison. To illustrate how crazy it has gotten, the right wing has been calling Arlen Specter a liberal!

[Tempest]

28. Exactly

Thanks for pointing that out.

[Tempest]

22. McCain supports abortion rights

"But certainly in the short term, or even the long term, I would not support repeal of Roe v. Wade, which would then force X number of women in America to illegal and dangerous operations."

[OKNancy]

37. His ratings for Planned parenthood and other choice/anti-choice groups

http://www.vote-smart.org/issue_rating_category.php?can_id=S0061103

Abortion Issues
(Back to top)


2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the National Abortion Reproductive Rights Action League 0 percent in 2004.

2003-2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the National Right to Life Committee 82 percent in 2003-2004.

2003 Senator McCain supported the interests of the National Abortion Reproductive Rights Action League 0 percent in 2003.

2001-2002 Senator McCain supported the interests of the National Right to Life Committee 33 percent in 2001-2002.

2001 Senator McCain supported the interests of the Planned Parenthood 0 percent in 2001.

2001 Senator McCain supported the interests of the National Abortion Reproductive Rights Action League 0 percent in 2001.

2000 Senator McCain supported the interests of the National Abortion Reproductive Rights Action League 0 percent in 2000.

1999-2000 Senator McCain supported the interests of the National Right to Life Committee 66 percent in 1999-2000.

1999 Senator McCain supported the interests of the Planned Parenthood 0 percent in 1999.

1996-2003 Senator McCain supported the interests of the Planned Parenthood (Senate) 0 percent in 1996-2003.

1995-2004 On the votes that the National Family Planning & Reproductive Health Assocation considered to be the most important in 1995-2004, Senator McCain voted their preferred position 0 percent of the time.

[MoonRiver]

27. I may be wrong, but it seems that McCain became anti-choice during 2000.

Before that I think he was pro-choice. The change was opportunistic, in an attempt to get the nomination. Knowing that, I wonder what kind of appointments to SCOTUS he would make. Somehow I suspect they would be moderates.

That said, Dems simply MUST take back one or more branches of this government. We have to fight like hell to get our guy/gal in the White House, and try to pack the government with as many Dems as possible. McCain, if he's the nominee, will be formidable, and we we should never forget that he is a Rethug.

[Stevendsmith]

9. McCain is not against the war. He supports the war. (N/T)

[Tempest]

23. He supports getting the troops out of Iraq

McCain has called for Bush to set a timeline to exit Iraq.

[NNN0LHI]

12. Why would you even suggest such nonsense?

>>>He's a moderate who's against the war<<<

You think you are talking to a bunch of little kids here? His only complaint is that Bush hasn't killed enough Iraqis fast enough.

Don

[Tempest]

24. Apparently I am in your case

>>His only complaint is that Bush hasn't killed enough Iraqis fast enough. <<


Provide a cite from McCain that backs up your statement.

[NNN0LHI]

No. You provide a cite to your ridiculous statement and we'll go from there

>>>He's a moderate who's against the war<<<

Fair enough?

Don

[Tempest]

30. He's not against the war per say

But he is calling for an exit strategy for getting U.S. troops out of Iraq next year.

He's now against sending more troops, even though he supported it last year.

[NNN0LHI]

32. ? n/t

[Prodemsouth]

16. You are Wrong!!!!!! All the way! The right will come around if they

think McCain is electable. This is all about Media image and you have swallowed it and then some when you claim McCain is anti-war Pro-environment pro choice, etc. He is on the opposite side on all those positions. This other DU'ers show how the media image of McCain has been successful. McCain is what they are going to sell us when not if Bush fails. McCain has been behind Bush on most all of his economic plan.

[Tempest]

25. You are wrong if you think the right will come around

The controlling factions of the GOP would never agree to share power with McCain.

They'll nominate Frist or Santorum before nominating McCain.


And McCain's voting record shows he's not the opposite on all those positions.

[Prodemsouth]

41. You love McCain- Its like telling someone his mother is a drunk

after she has 4 DUI's-He will not buy the obvious. If you think McCain is a moderate, the anti Bush, and holds any of the positions you stated, sorry but your in lala land. The far left wing always incorrectly assume that the far right wing is a mirror image of themselves- motivated by their "principles". For the right, the first order of business is winning, if polls show McCain is the only electable Republican they will find him acceptable and support him. The far right wing loves to win, the far left is defeatist form time to time. Look at the people here who suggest no hopers like Belafonte for President. All this criticism you hear of Miers is a ticket for the right to separate themselves from Bush. IT IS ABOUT BUSH NOT MIERS. The Conservatives know this is a sinking ship and Miers is the ticket off the SS Bush, as it heads toward an iceberg.

[nvliberal]

36. McCain is a media darling who doesn't deserve one bit of praise.

He's NOT, repeat NOT, a moderate, and he has had crooked dealings in his past.

Let's quit buying into the nonsense he's a moderate. There's no such animal in the Republican Party on the national level, New England excepted.

[NewJeffCT]

17. McCain is in no way moderate

he is pretty far right in a Republican Party that would make Barry Goldwater look liberal.

And, didn't McCain vote for drilling in ANWR? He is also anti-choice when it comes to abortion.

[Tempest]

26. McCain is a moderate

Especially when you compare him to the real far right in the GOP.

McCain voted for ANWR, so did some Democrats. There's many of us Democrats rethinking ANWR considering the situation Bush has put us in with the Middle East. McCain is against Bush's attempts to weaken environmental laws.

McCain is not anti-choice, he's pro-life. Calling McCain anti-choice is like saying you're pro-abortion. Is that a label you can live with? He said he wouldn't support reversing Roe vs. Wade.

[NewJeffCT]

31. when compared to Ann Coulter, anybody is a moderate

and, that is her purpose... to be so extreme that very conservative Republicans come across as moderates.

McCain is way more conservative than Eisenhower, more conservative than fellow Arizonan Goldwater, more conservative than Nixon and more conservative than just about any Republican that came along pre-1994 or so.

Yes, he is more moderate than many of today's Republicans, but in an historical perspective, McCain is still very conservative.

[Telly Savalas]

33. Shit. Reagan is moderate compared to the real far right in todays GOP

[OKNancy]

38. I still think McCain is a right -winger

Sorry. Anyone who has said and done the things he has done is no friend of ours. He has a compelling personal story, but that's about it for his qualifications.

It's a moot point anyway. The Republicans hate him too.

http://www.issues2000.org/Social/John_McCain_Abortion.htm

McCAIN: I am proud of my pro-life record in public life, and I will continue to maintain it. I will not draw my children into this discussion. As a leader of a pro-life party with a pro-life position, I will persuade young Americans understand the importance of the preservation of the rights of the unborn.


Overturn Roe v. Wade, but keep incest & rape exceptions
McCain said he thought Roe v. Wade should be overturned and said he would support exceptions to a ban on abortion in cases of rape, incest, and when the mother’s life is in danger.
Source: Boston Globe, p. A11 Jan 22, 2000


Wants Roe vs. Wade made irrelevant, but would not repeal it
McCain said, “I’d love to see a point where Roe vs. Wade is irrelevant, and could be repealed because abortion is no longer necessary. But certainly in the short term, or even the long term, I would not support repeal of Roe vs. Wade, which would then force women in America to illegal and dangerous operations.” A spokesman said that McCain “has a 17-year voting record of supporting efforts to overturn Roe vs. Wade. He does that currently, and will continue to do that as president.”
Source: Ron Fournier, Associated Press Aug 24, 1999


Voted YES on maintaining ban on Military Base Abortions.
Vote on a motion to table an amendment that would repeal the ban on privately funded abortions at overseas military facilities.
Bill S 2549 ; vote number 2000-134 on Jun 20, 2000

[leesa]

20. Since when is he against the war?? He is pro-Bush all the way.

Fiscally conservative...that's a myth that needs to be blown apart. Conservatives are ALWAYS irresponsible with your tax dollars...it all goes to corporate welfare.

Where do you get these wired ideas about McCain...he's a total sleaze.

[in_cog_ni_to]

39. Excuse me? McCain not a bad thing? Are you serious?

Anyone who would campaign for the idiot, get on stage with the idiot and hug and kiss the idiot IS A BAD THING. No thank you! He's damn far from being anti-Bush! He actually helped a man who smeared his family during the 2000 primaries. They said his wife was a drug addict, McCain's daughter was his "black lovechild" and he was a maniac because he was a POW. The man has no pride. He still went out and campaigned for that SOB and stood on stage and hugged and kissed the bastard! :puke: McCain? NO!

[Arkana]

47. John McCain ain't pro-choice.

If he was, I'd have less qualms about him being Prez, but I hate that and the fact that he seemed to just fasten his lips to *'s asshole in 2004.

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[madaboutharry]

6. He has millions fooled

He uses his charm to mask the reality of his political views. His big margin wins in Arizona are proof that many democrats who are marginally informed vote for him. He is a hard core conservative who now wants a gay-marriage ban initiative on the ballot. He is not a good guy.

[zalinda]

7. All the dems would have to do

is show the pic of McCain hugging Bush, over and over. That will stop him.

zalinda

[kenny blankenship]

10. All they had to do in 04 was show

Ahmad Chalabi sitting behind Laura Bush at the 2003 SOTU address smiling, while Chimpy told lie after lie about Iraqi WMDs.
Show him behind Pickles repeatedly flashing the captions
(as * tells another whopper) "untrue"

(cut to Chalabi) "Arrested as an Iranian SPY in his own country."

(as * tells another whopper) "lie"

cut to Chalabi seen over should of Laura Bush) "Iranian SPY

(cut to *) "another LIE"

(Cut to Chalabi) "still an Iranian SPY"

Smiling spy, lie, spy, lie, spy, yet another lie--eventually American voters would get the connection.


I thought all the Dems needed to do was something like that--you can bet your last dollar the R's would have done something like that to the Dems if a Democratic Pres. had placed an Iranian SPY sitting within arm's reach of the 1st Lady at a SOTU. But they (Kerry'n'Dems) didn't do it. (Nor did they do anything else to remind Americans that Bush had lied them into a doomed war, with the assistance and at the behest of an IRANIAN SPY.)

Never underestimate the timidity of the Democrats. Don't expect effective, jugular-oriented visual rhetoric and/or plain statements about the Republicans from them--not when it's still possible for Democrats to find a way to pussyfoot around the fact that there are differences between the parties and the kinds of people they put forward to the voters.

[Stevendsmith]

11. You're right. God, it makes my boil!

The Democratic Party is the most inept political operation in history.

We have zero reason to belive they won't blow it again in '06 and '08.

ZERO.

[zalinda]

40. Except that may be a difficult concept to convey,

not many people know who Chalabi is, or care. But, McCain hugging Bush is something else, and it is a really awful pic too.

zalinda

[Prodemsouth]

14. Well I would suggest that the Democrats and all opposed

tear up this image of a "Maverick" or moderate- he is neither total bullshit- when anyone in the media makes that claim we need to take them to task. He is not even a Repug lite as many here foolishly call some Conservative Democrats. McCain is conservative all the way. I always find it odd that it those that claim to be true progressives around here that seem to support him the most.

[porphyrian]

18. You're probably right, the republicans that are upset with bush...

...but don't want to vote Democratic unless they absolutely have to would likely run to McCain's camp. And, if the Democrats don't step the fuck up soon, they aren't going to be able to count on the Black vote much longer.

[leesa]

19. McCain is not that popular among Republicans. They see him as weak,

liberal and a little demented.

[confludemocrat]

21. Iraq hawk might not hurt him w/Demos, sad to say nor anti-choice if you

consider how these two supreme court nominees have been met by Democratic party "strategy". The very plausibility of the suggestion that moderate Democrats would support him is just the kind of thing that made me leave the party.

[journalist3072]

29. Here's the intriguing thing about McCain, to me...

He still kisses Bush's behind from time to time, even after all the Bush slime team did to him.

They called White Households in South Carolina, asking voters "Did you know John McCain has a black baby." And they ripped his wife apart.

And still, McCain supports Bush. I find that totally amazing.

Most men in politics will say "I'm fair game, but you leave my family alone." I haven't heard that from McCain.

[nvliberal]

35. In your dreams.

McCain is too old, for one thing, and for another he would never get through the primaries.

He's a right-winger like the rest of them, but he's not malleable enough for the neocons.

[the_spectator]

42. Exactamente!

He is getting really very old, he is unhealthy at this point also - and it SHOWS. His time has passed. Even if he could get the nomination, he could not win the presidency because of his current appearance (unless we go and do something stupid like nominate a fattie like Richardson!)

[cmd]

43. McCain is leading Hillary in this local poll

Hillary Clinton 42.70 % (228)
John McCain 57.30 % (306)

http://www.timesreporter.com/browser_detect.php

[liberalpragmatist]

44. I think a McCain candidacy is more likely than we realize

Especially if the right-wing splinters between Allen, Frist, Brownback and others. And especially IF McCain runs to the right on budget issues, argues for a flat tax, and for competent management. There's a whole lot of mainstream conservatives and moderate Republicans - even socially conservative ones - who are getting increasingly uncomfortable with the theocons and with Bush's spending and incompetence and he could find a receptive audience.

Frankly I don't think we have anyone who could beat him. I think Edwards or Clark would have the best chance against him. And their best chance would occur if the war in Iraq is still ongoing at that point, in which case if McCain is running to the right on that issue we may be able to win on a withdrawal-platform. Humphrey was extraordinarily popular before '68 but his continued support for LBJ's Vietnam policy destroyed his chances.

Of course, I hope that we DON'T have the opportunity to run on an "out-of-Iraq" platform in '08 because my hope is that by that point we WILL be out of Iraq.

[Walt Starr]

45. I know a lot of Democrats who are prepared to become Republicans

in order to vote for McCain in Republican primaries.

[JVS]

46. I suppose things could be worse.