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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-17-05 07:22 PM
Original message
Some Questions for Harriet Miers
Appointing a person with no judicial experience whatsoever to the Supreme Court is by no means an unprecedented act. Indeed, some of the most influential Justices ever to serve never wore the robe before assuming that high seat. Earl Warren, Warren Burger, and William Rehnquist were not judges before their appointments, and all three carved a wide, deep swath across our legal landscape during their time.

Leave aside, for the purposes of this exercise, all the noise from the Bush cam assuring his base that Judicial nominee Harriet Miers is a stalwart evangelical Christian. Flipping the God card has, morosely, become an expected tack in modern American politics. As James Carroll said in a recent Boston Globe editorial, “With Harriet Miers, we see that God lives in the politics of the US Supreme Court nomination process. In a culture defined by the separation of church and state, President Bush and his allies have mastered the use of religious affirmation as a deflection not only of criticism, but of critical thought. God is thus a trump card, a free pass. If the president, senators, and members of Congress can justify their decisions by appeals to God, why not judges?”

No, the question here isn’t what Miers thinks about God, Jesus, the saints, the martyrs, or even abortion, gay rights and the rights of corporations to buy politicians by the long ton via campaign contributions. Such considerations put the cart before this particular horse. Before we nail down what she thinks about this subject or that, we must first try to figure out if she thinks at all.

At first blush, it doesn’t look good. To be sure, she has excelled in her professional life. For 27 years she worked as an attorney in private practice, mostly handling business-oriented cases. She served as the first female president of the Dallas Bar Association and the State Bar of Texas. She has served, most importantly, as Bush’s personal attorney, and became White House Counsel after Alberto Gonzales. This is a resume to be proud of for any attorney in America.

Three problems, however, present themselves. The first has to do with her ability to serve effectively as a Justice. Those three Justices who never served on the bench before their appointment – Warren, Burger and Rehnquist – worked as District Attorneys, Attorneys General, Governors; in short, they were exposed in their legal practice to a wide variety of criminal, civil and constitutional issues. This gave them solid experience and intellectual background for the kinds of cases they would see from the high court. Miers, by comparison, has primarily dealt with business cases. When criminal cases and, more vitally, constitutional cases come before her review, she will have no experience beyond some law school classes to base her decisions on.

The second problem also has to do with her experiences in the White House, but more specifically, has to do with the reports of her performance during that time. Jeffrey Rosen, writing for the New Republic, reported, “Last year, in an insightful profile of Miers in Legal Times, T.R. Goldman quoted Miers' White House colleagues, who suggested that, when she was deputy chief of staff for policy under Andrew Card, her obsessive focus on details and process made it hard for her to see the forest for the trees or to engage the large policy questions. ‘She failed in Card's office for two reasons,’ a former White House official told Goldman. ‘First, because she can't make a decision, and second, because she can't delegate, she can't let anything go.’”

Conservative columnist Charles Krauthammer wrote, “If Harriet Miers were not a crony of the President of the United States, her nomination to the Supreme Court would be a joke, as it would have occurred to no one else to nominate her.” Conservative columnist George Will buttressed this observation by stating, “There is no reason to believe that Miers' nomination resulted from the president's careful consultation with people capable of such judgments. If 100 such people had been asked to list 100 individuals who have given evidence of the reflectiveness and excellence requisite in a justice, Miers' name probably would not have appeared in any of the 10,000 places on those lists.”

Here, apparently, we have a Supreme Court nominee who cannot handle details, fails when engaging broad issues, and cannot make a decision. Here we have a Supreme Court nominee whose intellectual mediocrity inspires tooth-grinding vitriol from conservatives who have made anti-intellectualism their bread and mead. Taken on the whole, what we have here is not a pretty picture.

The third problem, simply, is the fact that she served time as Bush’s personal lawyer and as White House Counsel. John C. Wohlstetter, Senior Fellow at the Discovery Institute, explains the problem: “President Bush's choice of White House counsel Harriet Miers has prompted much criticism, but his friends miss perhaps the biggest problem with the nomination: the likelihood that if confirmed the new Justice, because of her White House work, will recuse herself in major cases where her vote could prove decisive -- notably, war cases. The White House can claim executive privilege and refuse the Senate Miers's memos written as White House counsel. While executive privilege can be breached in extraordinary circumstances such as a criminal investigation (e.g., Watergate), a routine confirmation hearing fails to surmount that hurdle”

Think about it. Any number of cases could come before the Supreme Court in the next few years which reach into the White House. Imagine a Supreme Court with Miers on it hearing cases pertaining to the Fitzgerald investigation of the outing of CIA agent Valerie Plame, or hearing cases pertaining to the treatment of prisoners in Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo. It isn’t that she would vote wrong, but that she wouldn’t vote at all. Miers would be forced to recuse herself, taking any papers and evidence and discussions from the White House pertaining to the case at hand off the evidence table. Her very presence would severely disrupt the legal process.

Come to think of it, that may be the main reason (beyond the guaranteed vote she represents on any case Bush has taken an interest in) why the White House picked her in the first place.

The third problem, that of her automatic recusal from any cases dealing even peripherally with the Bush administration, is a permanent flaw with no solution other than her defeat before the Senate or her own voluntary withdrawal. The first two – her lack of broad legal experience and her apparent inability to consider issues with depth and precision – can either be established as fact or laid to rest with a few straightforward questions.

The first question is called The Antelope, also known as 23 U.S. (19 Wheat.) 66, and was a Supreme Court Case in 1825. The Antelope was a foreign vessel captured on the high seas by an American revenue cutter for suspect violation of the United States slave trade acts. The issue at hand is whether or not the United States could legally seize a foreign ship on the high seas that is engaged in slave trading, and whether or not such seizure allows for the freeing of those slaves by virtue of American laws against the slave trade. The concise rule of law when the case was heard read, “The United States cannot seize a foreign vessel engaged in the slave trade while it is on the high seas and apply American statutes to forfeit slaves owned by foreign nationals.”

As a matter of constitutional law, was it legal for the Antelope to be seized on the high seas? Was it legal for the slaves aboard to be freed subsequent to that seizure and according to American law?

The second question pertains to the Slaughter-House Cases, also known as 83 U.S. (16 Wall.) 36, decided by the Supreme Court in 1873. Several Louisiana butchers challenged as unconstitutional the Louisiana legislature’s granting of a 25-year monopoly to one slaughterhouse for the New Orleans area. The issue at hand is whether or not the Thirteen and Fourteenth Amendments prohibit the states from infringing on the privileges and immunities of state citizenship. The concise rule of law read, “The various provisions of the Thirteenth and Fourteenth Amendments prohibit the state from infringing on the privileges and immunities of national, not state, citizenship.”

As a matter of constitutional law, was it legal for the Louisiana legislature to grant this monopoly? Were the Thirteenth and Fourteenth Amendment rights of the butchers violated by the legislature?

The third question pertains to Marsh v. Alabama, also known as 326 U.S. 501, decided by the Supreme Court in 1946. Ms. Marsh, a Jehovah’s Witness, attempted to distribute religious literature in a company-owned town in Alabama. She was criminally convicted for handing out such literature without a permit Though privately owned, the town’s business district was open to the public, and public highways ran through it. The issue is whether or not First Amendment rights can be curtailed on private property that has taken on the public character of a business block. The concise rule of law read, “When private property is the equivalent of a public ‘business block,’ it ceases to be strictly private and First Amendment rights may not be arbitrarily curtailed.”

As a matter of constitutional law, may First Amendment rights be curtailed on private property that has taken on the public character of a business block?

If. Harriet Miers can take the time to answer these basic questions of constitutional law, providing her own analysis of the legal minutiae at hand, and without cheating by looking up the cases herself, she will take a large step towards establishing whether or not she has the chops to sit on that bench.

For the record, the majority in 1825 said ‘no’ on the Antelope question. The majority said ‘no’ in 1873 on the Slaughter-House question. The majority said ‘no’ in 1946 on the Marsh question. Extra credit will be granted Ms. Miers if she can explain why the Justices ruled as they did on these matters. Again, no cheating.
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-17-05 07:39 PM
Response to Original message
1. Really well written essay.
My suggestion for Dems- to ask her what SHE considers her most outstanding achievment in the legal arena and how that achievment will stand the test of time.

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VelmaD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-17-05 07:43 PM
Response to Original message
2. hehehe...you are evil
I love the questions at the end. :evilgrin:

Two little nits:
paragraph 2 - should be Bush camp not "cam".

Next to last paragraph...did you mean to put a period after "If"?
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-17-05 07:52 PM
Response to Original message
3. "Harriet Miers, are you human?"
Or part of the alien lizard cabal? :D

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haydukelives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-17-05 08:13 PM
Response to Original message
4. another must read
kick
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pinto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-17-05 08:36 PM
Response to Original message
5. kick. n/t
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-17-05 09:27 PM
Response to Original message
6. .
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DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 06:04 AM
Response to Original message
7. Recommended
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Jose Diablo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 08:23 AM
Response to Original message
8. "we must first try to figure out if she thinks at all"
I love it.

The real question is, why did Bu$h nominate her? I'd say he likes sycophants, pure and simple. She and Bu$h are 2 peas in a pod. Like Junior sucked-up to his pappas power, so did she suck-up to Juniors power.

Their both butt-kissers extraordinair (is this a word?).

Good job Mr. Pitt.
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Laura PourMeADrink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 08:24 AM
Response to Original message
9. I agree with all EXCEPT about her religion. Yes, it shouldn't matter
what a judge's religion is EXCEPT when its teachings are contrary to the law of the land. Evangelist beliefs include the idea that a woman must follow and obey a man. Our law says that men and women are equal. This disconnection could be overlooked if there is demonstable evidence in judicial papers to show that the law is what matters. She has none.

This is the most disturbing piece. There are papers, however, along with the career path she has chosen, following Bush to DC, that show her blind adoration for this man. I fear that the worst outcome of her appointment would be that years from now, long after his tenure, she will still be phoning him to ask how to rule.
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Jose Diablo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 08:43 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. I'd say that "years from now"
she will phone Roberts to 'make her decision'. Thus the appointment of Roberts turns into a two-fer. Look to Roberts to see how she will decide.
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Laura PourMeADrink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 10:39 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. perfect point. and he will first ask Dim Son. I read that the days
before her nomination announcement she phoned him. Think they prayed together.

Yikes. This MUST NOT GO THROUGH

I think that the Dems who gave the Rep's her name ought to be horse whipped
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PegDAC Donating Member (906 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #9
13. Article VI, Section 3 of the Constitution
Clearly states that "...NO religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust." What part of these mostly one-syllable and two- syllable words does Bush not understand. Yet another impeachable offense for the Chimperor!

:eyes: :shrug:
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montjoie Donating Member (6 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 11:47 PM
Response to Reply #9
21. Huh?
Edited on Tue Oct-18-05 11:47 PM by montjoie
So .. evangelical Christianity posits second class citizenship for women. That's bad. Muslim law posits the same ... but let's not do anything about that. Huh?
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swimboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 08:26 AM
Response to Original message
10. What brilliantly selected cases!
She should really get in a swivet trying to explicate the rulings if she can apprehend their relevance to the issues before us today.
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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 11:35 AM
Response to Original message
14. interesting and thoughtful, but here's my contrarian response
Edited on Tue Oct-18-05 11:38 AM by onenote
The OP is both thoughtful and interesting, much moreso than any number of posts that I've read regarding the nomination. But allow me, in my contrarian spirit, to play devil's advocate.

First, on the point that Miers not only lacks judicial experience, she also lacks "broad legal experience": When compared to Warren and Rehnquist, maybe. (A nitpick, if you please: Warren Burger was a judge on the DC Circuit for 13 years before being nominated to the Supreme Ct, so his inclusion in the OP should be disregarded). However, there are many other examples of S CT justices without prior judicial experience who were not AGs or DAs or governors: Lewis Powell, Arthur Goldberg (labor lawyer, secy' of labor), Abe Fortas (part time academic, advisor to SEC, counsel to PWA, undersec'y of Interior, private attorney representing Lyndon Johnson), William O Douglas (bankruptcy and commercial litigation expert/professor, SEC Chairman). I agree that she is woefully inexperienced and unqualified, but I think that comparisons with other justices don't necessarily "prove" that point.

Second, on the her "apparent inability to consider issues with depth and precision." Again, I don't doubt the truth of this assertion, but question how it can be "proven." A story about her in the Legal Times quoting unnamed sources probably doesn't do it. Calling Andy Card as a witness will only get a denial and a strong endorsement of her as having the temperment and abilities to be a Justice. I'm not sure what "questions" can be asked of her (or others) that would make the case.

Third, on her role as White House Counsel. The OP states "It isn’t that she would vote wrong, but that she wouldn’t vote at all. Miers would be forced to recuse herself, taking any papers and evidence and discussions from the White House pertaining to the case at hand off the evidence table. Her very presence would severely disrupt the legal process." I agree that she might choose to recuse herself in certain cases (note however, that recusal cannot "be forced" upon a S Ct justice; it she recuses herself it would be because public opinion/political pressure might cause her to make that decision, or it might turn out that she has some ethics). I don't follow the suggestion that he recusal "takes papers and evidence and discussions" from the WH "off the evidence table." The Supreme Court does not sit as a court of de novo review in most instances. Cases come up to it through the lower courts. Whether WH material is available as evidence in those lower court proceedings would not be impacted by Miers presence on the Court. (Their availability may be impacted by executive privilege, which can be invoked not only by a sitting president, but by a former president). So we're left with the issue of recusal. But if you accept the premise that her loyalty to bush is unwavering, then having her recuse herself actually hurts bush. I suspect the issue isn't that she won't sit for some cases, its that she WILL sit for some cases.

Finally, while I'm impressed with the selection of constitutional queries in the OP, I don't think its advisable to go down the road of subjecting Supreme Court nominees to "pop quizzes" on constitutional issues. Its a dangerous precedent, since it could easily be turned against a worthy Democratic nominee for the court in future years (as even experienced federal judges may not have any particular recollection of or exposure to particular Supreme Court precedents that they learned in Law School but have not otherwise encountered in their time on the bench). Moreover, it sets the precedent for playing "gotcha" with other nominees for other offices -- again, an approach that may discourage otherwise qualified persons from accepting nominations to important posts.

So, that's my two cents. How do I think the nomination should play out? I think every Democrat, using the opposition of George Will, Krauthammer, etc as cover, should vote against her on the grounds that she lacks the experience and qualifications -- that she is a fine lawyer, but not "outstanding" enough to merit elevation to the Supreme Court. If a few republicans join the opposition, she goes down and bush's vaunted invincibility takes yet another hit. And then, if Bush nominates a red meat conservative in her place, the Dems can decide whether to pull out the filibuster. If, on the other hand, the repubs pull together and 51 vote to affirm her, then the Dems have made their statement and still have the filibuster card left to play in the (god help us all) event another spot on the court opens up before bush leaves office.

onenote


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Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 11:59 AM
Response to Original message
15. Most excellent.
:applause:
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 01:16 PM
Response to Original message
16. Link to final w/ changes
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/101805Y.shtml

Thanks to onenote for picking up my Burger gaffe.
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gracie76 Donating Member (37 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 06:24 PM
Response to Original message
17. Harriett Miers - Will Pitt's posting
Excellent, and I think the most important ingredient is the fact that Harriett Miers has been involved as a lawyer with the President and will probably have to recuse herself in a number of situations/cases that might come before the court, and YES INDEEDY, I do think that is exactly why the pResident put her name out there. He is not quite so dumb as we might wish to think; he is planning his defense right now...and she will be a main part of it. ALSO on the question of abortion rights, etc. I do not care a whit what she or anyone else thinks; there is only one way to look at abortion, and it comes down to this: Whenever any government, federal, state, county, city or church government denies to any female access to birth control, whether "the pill", the "morning after" pill, RU486, condoms or abortion, then that government is forcing that female to become a breeder, and that, dear friends, is SLAVERY. gracie76
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grannylib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. I agree with you 100% gracie76, but the Fundies see that as God's divine
purpose for women...and the Fundies are a very powerful minority.
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AuntiBush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 10:29 PM
Response to Original message
19. I have a Question for Ms. Miers.
"Are you there to defend & protect & Bush, or the American people?"
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renate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #19
25. here's the only question Miers had to answer



to give credit where credit is due:
http://www.defectiveyeti.com/archives/001453.html
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EuroObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 11:28 PM
Response to Original message
20. I believe that should read "Miers' s", Will.
Edited on Tue Oct-18-05 11:29 PM by EuroObserver
Looks ugly I know, but if memory doesn't fail that's what they taught me at my 1960s British 11+ grammar school.

ed: grammar
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Carolab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 02:37 AM
Response to Reply #20
22. It's inconsistent, actually.
Edited on Wed Oct-19-05 02:38 AM by Carolab
“There is no reason to believe that Miers' nomination resulted from the president's careful consultation with people capable of such judgments. If 100 such people had been asked to list 100 individuals who have given evidence of the reflectiveness and excellence requisite in a justice, Miers' name probably would not have appeared in any of the 10,000 places on those lists.”

Here, apparently, we have a Supreme Court nominee who cannot handle details, fails when engaging broad issues, and cannot make a decision. Here we have a Supreme Court nominee whose intellectual mediocrity inspires tooth-grinding vitriol from conservatives who have made anti-intellectualism their bread and mead. Taken on the whole, what we have here is not a pretty picture.

The third problem, simply, is the fact that she served time as Bush’s personal lawyer and as White House Counsel. John C. Wohlstetter, Senior Fellow at the Discovery Institute, explains the problem: “President Bush's choice of White House counsel Harriet Miers has prompted much criticism, but his friends miss perhaps the biggest problem with the nomination: the likelihood that if confirmed the new Justice, because of her White House work, will recuse herself in major cases where her vote could prove decisive -- notably, war cases. The White House can claim executive privilege and refuse the Senate Miers's memos

******************

My 20+ years as a writer and editor trump your 11+ years in British schools and I say it's "Miers'" in all three cases.
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EuroObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #22
24. Yes, inconsistent.
Edited on Wed Oct-19-05 11:44 AM by EuroObserver
Rules of English grammar being quite mutable, sometimes, by now and in US-English you may be right, Carolab. But I quite clearly remember my favorite teacher of Eng. Lang. and Eng. Lit., nicknamed Caliban, explaining this rule as otherwise, and see that editors of The Economist seem to agree with me.

Ah, and to clarify, I mentioned 11+ to distinguish between the kind of Grammar School you can get into in the UK by paying fees, and the 'selective' state-system kind (now merged into a 'comprehensive' system) that you got into for free by passing a tough exam at age 11 back in the old post-WWII more socialist days.

ed: sticky keyboard.
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Carolab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. Not meaning to discredit your education. It might be "cultural".
The way the King's English is treated here differs from usage in the UK.
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EuroObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. Yes, that looks likely to be the case here. But enough of my pedantry!
The message itself is much more important.
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Carolab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. Agreed
:toast:
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bornskeptic Donating Member (951 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 09:24 AM
Response to Original message
23. kick n/t
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