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How can Democrats defuse the R's hot-button issues so they no longer work?

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begin_within Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 12:44 AM
Original message
How can Democrats defuse the R's hot-button issues so they no longer work?
How can Democrats make issues like abortion, gay marriage, terrorism, etc. become politically inert, so that the R's can't use them to win elections they otherwise would lose?
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 12:48 AM
Response to Original message
1. hammer the media nt
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phiddle Donating Member (749 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 12:56 AM
Response to Original message
2. For gay marriage and abortion
frame them as "privacy" issues. Get the government out of private lives!
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bookman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 12:58 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Good take
The Schivo case seemed to support America's concern about government in people's lives.

Honor your personal convictions but don't impose on others.
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cynatnite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 02:08 AM
Response to Reply #2
11. Exactly!
Those wedge issues should be framed as such and the Dems could really capitalize plus turn the tables on the repukes with it. Make the repukes say they want it federal law because the bible said so. :evilgrin:
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ThoughtCriminal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 12:59 AM
Response to Original message
4. Sometimes the R's do that for us
Schiavo is a good example. Pushing it too far to appeal to a base that actually has an unpopular position.
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Fleshdancer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 01:04 AM
Response to Original message
5. As it stands, 2008 is SO EASY....
I highly doubt we'll see any dramatic changes in policy from now 'till the next Presidential election...especially after the pending legal problems.

Because of this, the debate is very simple. Abortion? We had a Republican controlled House, Senate, Supreme Court and White House. If the Republicans honestly wanted to end choice, they would have. They didn't. Why? Why? Why? Use the same argument for Gay marriage. As for terrorism, going after Iraq when other people attacked us goes against common sense. WHERE THE HELL IS OSAMA BIN LADEN?
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dorktv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 01:37 AM
Response to Original message
6. Laugh at them.
Then switch to talking about how families need to stay together and how we want to make sure they can because the top reason people get divorced is money and you got to make sure that a family has a breadwinner who makes enough for the family to be okay. Or something serious.
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YOY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 01:40 AM
Response to Original message
7. Five across the eyes works for me...
Then again I'm pretty set for R's hot-button issues.
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EST Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 01:42 AM
Response to Original message
8. I think the biggest results can be achieved in the reframing.
Most of the big issues that are useful as wedges to keep the populace divided and therefore allow room for the party of corruption to operate can be framed as privacy issues. This will be the biggest fight, the one, if won, will be that "slippery slope" that the nosy bastards hate the most. The details surrounding the right of privacy, and I think this needs to be spelled out in a constitutional amendment, will also have to include things that I put in my body.
Any power accruing to the citizen automatically reduces the government's strangle-hold and is to be resisted at all costs by political mobsters.
That right of privacy can conceivably include all things having to do with sex, drugs, rock 'n roll, vitamins, guns, DNA, religion, and a host of other activities.
The "mind your own business" culture cannot arrive too soon for me.
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Neil Lisst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 01:49 AM
Response to Original message
9. You're asking us to piss off half the people here ...
... but what the hell, I'll give it a try.

ABORTION
We have to accept that most Americans do not want abortion to be legal except in limited circumstances after about the 5th month of pregnancy. It seems to be that the most viable position is that we want abortion legal, we want it unrestricted up until about month 6, and we want federal funding for it.

We have to accept that most parents don't want their child to have the ability to make medical decisions before a certain age. It seems to me we must tie both sexual age of consent with medical decisions relating to reproductive organs at age 15 or 16. Rules always create inequities, but we have to hope to stay true to our beliefs while allowing room in the middle for those who are in the middle.
--------------------
more on other issues later, but that is one on which we can and should have majority support
---------------------------

today's new comic is up
http://www.webcomicsnation.com/neillisst
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Neil Lisst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 02:43 AM
Response to Reply #9
13. Part II Gay Marriage
Marriage is a state, not federal, matter. It's a contract, and it's regulated by each state. As much as I would like to see gay marriage available, I know what percentage of the American populace opposes it, and I know that substantial numbers of Democrats oppose it, particularly large numbers of blacks and hispanics.

At some point, we have to reckon with the limitations of a representative democracy.
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #13
20. Maybe we need to phrase these things better, and be proactive
Edited on Tue Oct-18-05 03:51 PM by impeachdubya
rather than figuring out how to retreat on them.

There are millions- MILLIONS- of socially libertarian-minded voters in this country who, despite the obvious, can't figure out which party is LESS interested in meddling in their personal lives. If our party would come out CLEARLY and SUCCINCTLY saying that people should mind their own business-- as a philosophical point on gay marriage as well as a whole laundry list of other issues, I think we would win over a helluva lot more voters than we're ever going to get among the "values voter" crowd who -news flash- aren't going to vote for our guys anyway.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. MYOB is a key rural value
I think some folks just don't know that.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 04:58 AM
Response to Reply #9
15. 99% Under 20 weeks
Edited on Tue Oct-18-05 04:59 AM by sandnsea
If people knew none of those late term abortions happened except in medical circumstances anyway, there'd be no abortion debate. That's all Democrats need to repeat.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/abo_fact2.htm

Deciding whether teen-agers have a right to medical care without their parents' consent is another issue. We were moving towards that twenty years ago, and many states passed laws giving teen-agers that right. I don't see any reason not to go back to it. If the choice is a kid seeing a doctor or not getting needed care, I'm on the side of the kid seeing the doctor.

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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. Women are staying pregnant for 8 months and getting abortions on a whim
just like black people are laughing as they take limos from the welfare office to the liquor store to buy expensive vodka and bon-bons.
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 02:05 AM
Response to Original message
10. I guess I'll piss off the "other half" of people here:
Edited on Tue Oct-18-05 02:08 AM by impeachdubya
  • "The Cornerstone Of Freedom Is The RIGHT Of Consenting Adults To Self-Determination With Regards To THEIR OWN BODIES. What They Do With Their Own Bodies, Particularly In The Privacy Of Their Own Homes, What Booze they Drink, what Plants They Smoke, What Porn They Watch, Which Gender They Fuck And In What Combinations, What Birth Control They Use, Whether They Decide With Their Doctor To Become Or Remain Pregnant, Whether They (Oh No!) Want To Make a Lifelong Legal Commitment to Someone of a Different OR THE SAME Gender, Or if they're Terminally Ill and they decide they want A Pain-Free Exit on Their Own Terms.. so long as we're talking about consenting adults not endangering others or committing other crimes, NONE OF THOSE ARE ANYONE ELSE'S FUCKING BUSINESS"

  • "Now- on the consenting adult thing. As far as Parental Consent laws go vis a vis abortion, there are damn good reasons why communication between parents and kids on abortion shouldn't be LEGISLATED. If you want your kids to talk to you before having sex, using birth control, or getting an abortion, raise them in a situation where those lines of communication are open."

  • "If you want to post the ten commandments, declare Jesus the only way to salvation, or proclaim loudly the literal truth of the Earth's creation in six days a la Genesis, you are more than free to do so- in Church. Hell, you can do 'em on most street corners, too. But you CAN'T do them in Courthouses under the auspices of the Federal Government, or force science teachers to teach them in public schools. This is not discrimination, this is SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE, and not only is it a PATRIOTIC, AMERICAN concept, it protects the Church as much as it protects the state. I'm sorry your faith is so weak that you NEED to have the government endorse it, but that's not our problem"

  • "Terrorism? What the FUCK are you talking about???? I've got five words for that debate, just five little words. Here they are. Osama Bin Laden. Saudi Arabia. Now--- please explain to me again why 'terrorism' is a winner issue for the GOP?"




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    mongo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 11:11 AM
    Response to Reply #10
    18. Nailed it on the head.
    And as EST said upthread the "mind your own business" culture can't come too some!
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    AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 02:19 AM
    Response to Original message
    12. There Isn't Any Way. Write off the Bigots and Fundies
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    mykpart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 04:13 AM
    Response to Original message
    14. What works for me when it comes to gay marriage and reproductive rights,
    is the separation of church and state. We should remind people what life is like in a theocracy like Iran so we can remember why we want to separate government from religion.
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    zbdent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 08:04 AM
    Response to Original message
    16. With humor - an example
    Something to this effect:

    "The faggots are coming! The faggots are coming! wait . . . this is 2005/2006.

    The illegal immigrants are coming! The illegal immigrants are coming!"
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    zbdent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 08:05 AM
    Response to Original message
    17. Point out that intelligence and education just don't fit on
    bumper stickers as easily as Republican lies . . .
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    SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 03:52 PM
    Response to Original message
    21. Until the people wake up and smell the coffee
    nothing will work.. It's the uninformed public and the lazy media who are driving this bus..


    SoCalDem (1000+ posts) Sun Aug-15-04 06:52 PM
    Original message
    My dear Republican friends,
    Edited on Sun Aug-15-04 07:38 PM by SoCalDem

    Updated and reposted , upon request...


    My dear Republican friends,


    So, are you done being "played"??.... Have you "seen the light"??

    Right about now, some of you must have noticed that your "boy" is tap dancing as fast as he can, yet he seems to be getting boos instead of rose garlands..

    For over 30 years, you have been "played". The people to whom you have trusted your futures, and your children's, have let you down...again..

    ....These fat-cats at the top of your "party" know full well that some of you don't like "dark people", so they have carefully crafted language that you lap up with a "wink, wink, nod, nod". They have no intention of carrying through with their carefully couched plans to re-segregate and return to the "good ole days" that they pretend to long for.. They like the days NOW.. They are making tons of money by rotating in and out of industry and government.

    ....The republican-masters at the top of the heap, got that way because THEY control the taxes that they pay. They throw the peons a bone now and then, and let them think that they too are getting a tax break...finally.. But Look at those utility bills, your insurance co-pay, that college tuition bill, the grocery bill...look at the latest rent increase or the increase in property taxes.. That $10 extra every week in your paycheck doesn't BEGIN to cover the increases in the things you pay "hidden" taxes on. Roads are not free, power plants are not free,bridges are not free, city government is not free.. Taxes pay for these things, and when the revenues go down, the COSTS of those public services go UP. It's a fact of life.The extra money you were supposed to have , to help boost the economy, just ends up in another rich man's pocket...along with the hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of tax cuts HE got.

    ....They know that some of you are truly religious, so they came up with a "bone" for you all too.. They ooze "faith" from each and every pore when they are talking to you all and asking for votes, but behind closed doors, they continue to cheat on their wives, abuse their kids, and do all the things that they profess to hate. True faith is more than carrying a Bible around, or saying "God Bless Anerica every time a microphone and camera are near. Faith is what you have in your heart, your soul...not what dangles from a shirt sleeve or drips off a lying tongue.


    ....They know how you all loathe the "welfare queens" ..Ronald Reagan told you all about them.. The ones with the fur coats and Cadillacs, out to collect their food stamps..She was a made up myth.. The real welfare queens are visible when the fat cats look in the mirror. They "rent" public land for pennies to graze their cattle...they take kickback subsidies for their corporations, and then they lay you and your friends off.. They tell you about all the wonderfully diabolical things they have in store for those "damned immigrants" , but they are the ones who offer jobs to them.. Why?? Because they know that the immigrants will be too afraid to dare ask for a raise, or bathrooms or decent wages, or health insurance..These workers get hurt on the job, and then have to go to emergency rooms. which raises the cost for all of us.. The reason they get hurt is because these same fat cats have bribed our legislators to "ease" the safety requirements on the job.. If they end up blind in one eye, it's no biggie to the bosses.. immigrants have TWO eyes..

    ....These same politicians know that if you ever got some truth , you might see through their lies, so they have made sure that the airwaves are chocked full of people who "sound reasonable", yet seem to always agree with only their ideas.. Didn't it ever strike you as odd, that no matter what time of day you turned on the radio for all those years, you rarely (if ever) heard an opposing opinion? These fat cats at the top, have tons of money, but they still needed to "push your buttons" and "ring your bells" to get you out to vote for them. They had to have a perpetual way to get your attention..and they needed to keep you "upset and angry" enough to turn out on election day.

    About those buttons and bells:

    ....Abortion is always a bell they can ring, and their Pavlovian supporters start salivating. Whether your unknown-to-you neighbor has an abortion, or does not, should be of little consequence to you, but over the years, they and their preacher friends have somehow convinced a lot of you, that by inserting yourselves into the crotches of all women, you are endearing yourselves to God Almighty. Do you really think that you are getting "extra credit" for screeching epithets at women who may be entering a clinic for a pap smear, or that God will praise you for encouraging "physicicide"?
    Ask yourselves , truthfully, if you would welcome the child of YOUR 13 year old who was raped..or would you just quietly call a doctor-friend, who would "help" in such a situation?

    ....Guns are always a fun issue for them too. They know that a lot of their supporters are gun aficionados, so they try to scare you into thinking that the next knock on your door will be Ted Kennedy coming to collect all your guns.. Cars are registered, and yet, unless you miss payments,no one is coming to take your car away from you. In case you haven't noticed, there are democrats who like guns too.

    ....School vouchers are another interesting wedge issue, since it hits on several of their "issues". "Upper-Crusty" Private schools probably see the government vouchers as valuable as toilet paper for their little scions who attend, but for the storefront Bible oriented schools, these are manna from heaven.Vouchers themselves are not the problem, as much as they are a clever way to funnel public tax money into private enterprises, while weakening the public schools that most people choose for their kids.. This should be an issue for you to be on the "other" side. Taking public money for private use seems like something that fiscal conservatives would be against. Somehow, they have managed to convince a bunch of you that with that $3,000 voucher in your hand, it's "next-stop-Exeter" for little Jim Bob , jr... What that voucher will do for you is allow other fat cats like Bill (the Gambler) Bennett to sell some of his software so he can hit Vegas in style..Neil (Asian girls have sex with him for free) Bush also is into the private school scams, so your vouchers help him pay his alimony and child support.

    ....School prayer is always good for a few hoots too. Every religious kid on earth has prayed in school, but organized prayer in school (unless it's a religious school) is NOT OK. This does not mean that God has no place in school. God can be in each student's heart and soul. Teacher-led or school sanctioned public prayer is NOT for public school, and deep down you know it. It's an interesting issue to drag out of the closet every election year.

    The flip side of "your" issue is this... If Susie Jones can lead the Lord's Prayer, and all are expected to chime in, how will YOUR child feel when Mohamed leads the prayer from the Koran, or a Jewish child leads the prayer, or a Hindu child, or a Sikh child, or a Buddhist child? Will your child behave respectfully, or will they come home and after telling you, will YOU run to complain to the school board?? Like it or not, we ARE a pluralistic society, and the "new people" who have come here with their faith and customs, are allowed to have the same rights as you have.

    ....What if you found out that the two elderly "sisters" who have lived in your neighborhood for 30 years, are really not sisters? What if they had babysat for your kids, and you had invited them to Thanksgiving Dinner? What if you had liked them for all those years, and THEN you found out that they were gay? Does that make you a bad judge of character? Does that mean that somehow your children will "turn gay" because you found out about them? Will your marriage suddenly crumble to dust because someone you thought was an old maid, turned out to be a lesbian? Will they now expect you to "join them"?? or will they just be what they have always been...your neighbors. Ask yourself about your own children.. What would you really do if your own child was gay? Would you disown a 12 year old who told you he thought he liked boys "in that way"?? Does that make you a bad parent for raising him "wrong"??

    ....That brings us to the "wacky environmentalists" and their "junk science". Have you ever wondered why so much energy , money and attention is paid to discredit scientists who have spent their lifetimes trying to figure out how to save lives and make our health better? Why WOULD that be?? Hmmmm ..Maybe it's because the tale they are telling us contradicts the corporate masters of your politicians who allow these same companies to pollute your water, air and soil. Is it OK for your baby to get "a little" mercury, arsenic,plutonium, or any other toxins out there?? Do you know what your baby's "upper limit" is regarding tolerance of toxins.?? The "slow" child at 5, may have been poisoned as a baby, and you will NEVER EVER get an answer.. Isn't it better to try whatever it takes, to eliminate ALL toxins from our food chain, and from our air and water?? How is that a BAD thing?? To hear Rush & the gang, one would think that people who legislate for money and corporations who are in it for the money, actually do have your best interests at heart.. Do they?? Is it worth your health or the lives of your children, if they are wrong?? If the environmentalists are wrong, all you get out of it is cleaner air, cleaner water, safer food.. That's a BAD thing??

    ....Last but not least , we have that "icky" war thing.. I know that most of you wrapped yourselves in the flag-cocoon with him, and probably thought that we did "need" to attack Iraq, but isn't it a shame that nothing has turned out the way he said they would.. Flag worship is NOT the same as Patriotism..True Patriotism is a mature love of country.. Patriots love their country, but they are grown up enough to support their country with full knowledge, that their country can make mistakes. Flag worshippers love their country like a jealous lover, ready always for vengeance and spite.

    Soldiers keep dying, and we are no closer to the Iraqi Dream that they told you all about.. You know the one.. The one where they race alongside the Humvee, throwing kisses and flowers.. Here are a few facts.. There never were WMDs..(well there were, but those were the ones that his Daddy gave Saddam, and Clinton destroyed 99% of them, and the rest were rusted pieces of junk).. The only things thrown at the humvees were rocks and bombs.

    Bush KNEW there were no WMDs.. He LIED.. You all jumped for joy when Clinton was coerced into a lie about sex, yet can so easily ignore a BIG FAT UGLY LIE that has gotten almost 1,000 soldiers, and untold Iraqis killed..Shame on you !..There were ZERO Iraqis on the planes that crashed into our buildings..ZERO..ZERO..

    Do you really believe, deep down in your bones, that George W cares one iota about the welfare of the Iraqi people?? Of course he does not. It's about enriching his contractor friends, and his daddy, and of course, himself..when he leaves office. It's about the "Grand Plan"..the one where the US controls the world.. It's almost a James Bond-like fantasy, only it's NOT A MOVIE.. Real people are spilling real blood,thousands of them, and the end game is not one that he could have predicted. He failed to plan for what happens after the tanks, and choppers, and Humvees "won the war"..

    The Iraqi people have been a civilization for thousands of years, and they are very capable of handling their own affairs. Lots of people around the world feel that OUR leader is a dangerous man. Should their feelings count for nothing?? If they had the military strength, what would happen if they decided to "remove" our leader? Would you take up arms against them?? Of course you would. This mis-adventure is turning out badly because it was unnecessary from the beginning.He was hell-bent to have his "war", even though he had a perfectly appropriate opportunity many years ago, but was too scared to go. He needed to be the wartime hunky president in a padded flight suit.. It's always about the photo-ops.

    ....If you sit down and play a game of "pretend" you will see the light.. Here's how you play.. Read any article and every time the word "Bush" appears, substitute "Clinton".. Do a "gut-check"..Tight, uneasy, angry, conflicted?..

    You have been "played", but it's not hopeless. Imagine YOUR job out-sourced.. Imagine YOUR insurance gone... Imagine yourself homeless.. Imagine your own child stricken with a preventable cancer.. Imagine your own freedom ...gone.. It's almost there.. But there is still time..

    No one is telling you that you MUST vote for Kerry, just that you take the time to think for yourself..analyze what you read.. Read foreign papers.. There is actually "news" in other places, and things that happen here DO affect them too.. They have a stake in what happens here..

    It's called empathy.. Look it up.. It's helpful and it really does not cost that much.. The returns far outweigh the cost.

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    maximovich Donating Member (407 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 04:17 PM
    Response to Original message
    23. They Already Have by Pushing the Issues into the Mainstream
    They have essentially warn out the shock of each issue.
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    Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 04:35 PM
    Response to Original message
    24. Abortion is a positive issue for the Dems, large majority of the sheeple
    rightly support it.
    Terrorism can be dealt with by making it clear we will deal with the terrorists and those that support it, not pushing personal/political agendas nor protecting them because of their "donations".
    Lastly, we should just stop talking about the divisive issues, like gay marriage. This is how the repugs got where they are today, they told the racists, survivalists and, wacko fundies to just be patient while they consolidated power. IMO.:shrug:
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    emdee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 04:43 PM
    Response to Original message
    25. Remind them that they've had five years to stop those things....
    and have done zilch. Vocalize that those issues are only used to acquire votes and that Republicans have abortions, there are gay Republicans, etc. After the votes are gotten, the issues are ignored. Vocalize it!

    Point out every lie as a lie without pussy-footing around.

    And, use their own ploy of "this is not the time to discuss that" while barreling on with a totally different talking point and changing the subject all together.

    emdee
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    Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 04:45 PM
    Response to Original message
    26. Stand -- really stand -- for econmomic justice
    If the Democrats would ever stand foursquare for the economic interests of working people and smaller businesses, the otehr issues would be much less important.

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