AAAAARRRGG. You are buying into THEIR Framing

[me b zola]

Why should ANYONE, candidate or voter, call themselves "pro-life" when they support Roe V Wade?? I am "pro-life", the heathen that I am, yet I believe in a woman's absolute right to medical care, which includes reproductive health care, & PRIVACY.

WE ARE ALL PRO-LIFE. Those of us who support Roe v Wade are pro-choice. For any political candidate or legistlature to use the framing language that the fascists have successfully brainwashed a number of "Democratic" voters into accepting, I don't have much use for them. Here's a clue: PROGRESSIVE. Now, how the fuck is anyone going to work in a progressive manner when they are going back on all of the hard fought battles won?

I am tired. It is 1:30am here. But I have had about enough of "progressives" telling us how we are supposed to think and speak as though the people who fought so hard for us to give us our rights do not matter. I am sick to death of people being so cowed that they cannot even see how REGRESSIVE they are behaving in their political activity.

"PRO-LIFE" IS A LIE CREATED BY THE FUCKING REICH WING.

Why can't I have honnest government representation to say just that. We are ALL "pro-life", it is just that most of us(that includes repuke women) also feel that the government has no buisness in our medical care.


VOTE FOR SOMEONE WHO SAYS THAT THEY ARE PRO-LIFE?????? They don't seem like an honnest person that has leadership qualities.

[Birthmark]

1. Y'all listen up.

me b zola is absolutely correct.

[PowerToThePeople]

2. I walk into a gay bar and say "I am gay."

Now, In reality, I am straight but "happy." So, some people may be confused.

So, if pro-womens rights people started going by nothing but the term pro-life how would we, the voters, differentiate them from the anti-womens rights pro-lifers?

[me b zola]

12. We are in agreement, my OP wasn't as clear as it could have been

My point was that I am sick of "progressives" saying that they are "pro-life". I get a bit upset to hear "progressives" say that they are "pro-life", but they support Roe.

I am calling bullshit on progressives who buy into the RW's framing of "pro-life". We are PRO-CHOICE. We should never accept the premise created by the neo-con machine. At least half of repub women are in favor of choice, so lets keep the message as such. We don't even challenge them on the percentage of repubs who are pro-choice!

I'm sick to death of Dem "leaders" & candidates who do not posses the leadership qualities and must hide behind "I am pro-life, although I do not believe that Roe should be overturned." What they are really saying is that they are pro-choice but do not posses the leadership qualities to say so.




Okay, so apparently my follow up is not well written. I hope that you can at least hear what I am trying to get across. :D

[Moochy]

3. I've excised that phrase

from my vocabulary. Anti-choice is what I use to describe them.
that and other less polite terms.

This is just like the framing of the word "liberal" as an insult.

If a politician shies away from that term, they are a Dino.

[Rockholm]

17. Moochie, I always use "anti-choice."

[bluestateguy]

4. One of my old college hallmates called himself "pro-abortion"

He was an arch-conservative on every issue, but on abortion it was a different twist. He told me that his attitude was that if he ever got a girl pregnant that he would make her have an abortion, lest he have to be a father and complicate his life. He also said that abortion was good population control and that more abortions meant fewer people on welfare.

[Raksha]

6. Hmmmm...you sure this guy's name wasn't Bill Bennett?

Re >>He also said that abortion was good population control and that more abortions meant fewer people on welfare.<<

[cornermouse]

10. He said he would

MAKE her have an abortion? Sounds right wing all the way to me.

[WildClarySage]

20. Yikes!

Who wouldn't wanna sleep with a *swell* guy like that?

[Hello_Kitty]

13. Just the flip side of the same misogynistic coin

Control women - their sexuality and reproduction - so they won't pose a threat.

[cynatnite]

5. My RW mother...

Government has no place in people's private lives. That's god's business.

She's a pro-lifer and supports Roe V. Wade.

[DaveColorado]

7. Get your abortions now ladies

The going out of business sales should be starting soon at abortion clinics.

[PowerToThePeople]

9. Uh, nope. I don't think so.

[REP]

8. Thank You!

All I care about a politician's view on abortion is that s/he will not make it illegal or harder to obtain. That's all. Anything else is not my business and frankly, is just noise.

[DaveColorado]

11. Sorry

I meant after Stevens dies or retires.

Hopefully he can last through the rest of W's term, but at 85, I won't hold my breath.

You have to look at the realities of the situation. Kerry is not the one picking the justices.

[REP]

14. You Think Republicans Are "Pro-Life"?

And lose a fund-raising scare tactic like abortion by making it illegal? Are you high?

[lostnfound]

15. You can't undo framing intensively inculcated over years of catechism

Like it or not, the expression carries deep meaning for millions of Catholics who grew up in the 70s and 80s and got taught intensive lessons about their church's position on abortion, euthanasia, and the death penalty.

You might be able to shift the focus -- just as the larger culure has shifted it away from the death penalty -- but the anti-abortion aspect is taught deeply and repeatedly and I don't think you can make it go away. It's a word that carries meaning for them.

[patricia92243]

16. The correct term is "Anti-Choice."

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

18. They are pro-zygote

or pro-fetus. Once the kid becomes viable, they could care less about what heppens to him (or her. Especially her.)

Actually, I use the term as a perjorative, in that so many of these "pro-life" people are for the death penalty, war, cutting medicaid to people (when Gov. Matt Blunt of MO cut Medicaid to a lady who no longer can afford to buy oxygen, I commented that this was an odd way to express pro-life sentiments), etc. etc.

[symbolman]

19. Yep

just like Falewell created the "LIBERTY FOUNDATION"..

Jumbo Shrimp, Military Intelligence - mutually exclusive terms..

it's called Perception Management, and even PM has been framed, if you are against it you are a "Conspiracy nut" or a Paranoid..

My wife and I were just talking about how america has basically become like I think Gore Vidal mentioned, "A nation of cutthroat businessmen" and that everything you are taught is WRONG, and in actuallity is quite the opposite, and that by the time you figure it all out, you are past your 40's and worried about keeping alive but know that since you've realised you've been indoctrinated wrongly that they NOW have ALL YOUR MONEY and STOLE ALL YOUR TIME to get rich, and you are SCREWED.. and if you try to tell people what's really going on, then you are labeled grouchy and bitchy and have no altruistic vision, etc..

must be why old people complain so much :)

then they toss you like cordwood in piles in the Old Folks Home where you rot..

Scary ain't it?