US military massacres dozens in wake of Iraq referendum

[Karmadillo]

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2005/oct2005/iraq-o18.shtml

In the space of a few hours on Sunday, less than a day after voting finished on the draft constitution in Iraq, the US military used laser-guided bombs and helicopter gunships to massacre as many as 70 people in two incidents in the predominantly Sunni Arab city of Ramadi.

The killings expose the utterly cynical character of the Bush administration’s propaganda that the October 15 referendum marked a genuine step toward democracy and sovereignty. Iraq is a conquered country, where US occupation troops are using the most ruthless methods to intimidate any opposition by the Iraqi people and force them into accepting neo-colonial American rule.

In the first incident, at least 25 people were blown to pieces when an F-15 dropped a bomb on a crowd that was gathered around the wreckage of an American humvee. It had been destroyed on Saturday by an insurgent roadside bomb, killing five marines and two soldiers of the Iraqi government armed forces and taking the total of US fatalities in Iraq to 1,976.

The US military asserted the airstrike resulted in the “death of terrorists” who had been planting another bomb. Witnesses and Ramadi hospital staff, however, have insisted that the casualties were young people and children who were pulling parts from the wreck.

Ahmed Fouad told the Washington Post that his son and eight-year-old daughter were among the dead. “She was killed with her brother when they were near the humvee. Her mother had a stroke out of shock,” he said. A local police officer told Reuters: “Their bodies were completely ripped apart.”

more...

[rodeodance]

1. there are no words for this.

......Ahmed Fouad told the Washington Post that his son and eight-year-old daughter were among the dead. “She was killed with her brother when they were near the humvee. Her mother had a stroke out of shock,” he said. A local police officer told Reuters: “Their bodies were completely ripped apart.”

[MadisonProgressive]

2. Don't they know it's a crime to be born Iraqi?

Why do they hate America???

[callady]

3. Disgustingly predictable n/t

[Dhalgren]

4. Good article - it tells the truth, I am ashamed to say...

[Arkansas Granny]

5. The news releases almost always use a qualifier, such as

"suspected insurgents". What are the requirements for being a "suspected insurgent"? Do you just have to be out in the street? Apparently so. Does age matter? Apparently not. Do weapons have to be visible? Guess not. Bombs cannot make the distinction between civilians and insurgents and, evidently, neither can those who direct them.

[BikeWriter]

6. World Socialist Web Site?

I'll search for other sources for that attack.

[frogbison]

7. It was also reported

on NPR yesterday, including that many may have been civilians.

[BikeWriter]

13. I wouldn't doubt it in the least, but the source used...

is one that will be questioned.

[Karmadillo]

24. Any good progressive source will be questioned by wingnuts.

The wsws is reliable and covers issues "respectable" sources tend to neglect.

[Lerkfish]

9. here ya go, doubting thomas

BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- The U.S. military said Monday that coalition forces launched airstrikes Sunday in and around Ramadi, west of Baghdad, killing "an estimated 70 terrorists."

But an Iraqi doctor who reported 20 people killed -- including six children -- and 25 wounded said all those were civilians.

An Iraqi Ministry of Health official also said one child was killed and two women wounded in the airstrikes. (Watch controversy over U.S. airstrikes -- 2:07)

Military officials said they had no reports of civilians killed.

[BikeWriter]

12. Hey, have I called you any names?

Lighten the fuck up!

[Lerkfish]

16. um...at least on my end "doubting thomas" is not a perjorative.

no offense was intended. Apologize if any was taken.

I use it to describe ANYONE who asks for proof. If you know the biblical story, Thomas would not believe Jesus had risen unless he saw him, so Jesus appeared to him and he joyously believed.

Nothing perjorative there. You were asking for other links, I provided them.


have a nice day.

[BikeWriter]

18. As I provided links, too...

I commonly see stories on Drudge or other controversial sites I'd like to discuss. As we've just proved it's usually easy to find other versions. Doubting Thomas? I do question sources. That's one reason why I have survived this long.

[gratuitous]

10. The headline was a little different in the New York Times

I don't know how credible you view them as a news source, though. Naturally, the dead are identified unequivocally as "insurgents" in the headline. I suspect because every body recovered had irrefutable evidence like an Insurgent ID card, which as everyone knows all the insurgents carry with them at all times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/17/international/middleeast/17cnd-iraq.html?hp

Strikes Kill About 70 Insurgents, U.S. Says, as Vote Count Continues

By SABRINA TAVERNISE and KATRIN BENNHOLD
Published: October 17, 2005

RAMADI, Iraq, Oct. 17 - American air strikes killed about 70 suspected insurgents in a series of operations near the volatile western Iraqi city of Ramadi on Sunday, the day after a referendum on a new constitution, the military said today.

The strikes targeted Sunni-led insurgents, who tried to intimidate voters in the run-up to Saturday's balloting by killing scores of Iraqis with suicide attacks and roadside bombs in recent weeks. But within hours of today's announcement by the United States military, news agencies reported that dozens of the dead were civilians.

_________________________

Now, I'm not sure how the insurgents were trying to "intimidate" voters, but our air strikes, called down on people who can't get away and can't fight back, don't "intimidate" anyone.

[BikeWriter]

14. This story sounds almost as biased the other way.

They did include the report of civilian deaths though.

[gratuitous]

17. I'm not sure about "bias" one way or the other

But I know that presented with the bare facts, I'd tend to call the U.S. air strikes a massacre.

[BikeWriter]

19. I've seen the truth about war warped both ways,

up close and personal. It would not surprise me if the first story were true. We do know our enemies attempt to discredit any information we post here. Using easily attacked sources is not a good strategy.

[jonnyblitz]

22. yeah if they are socialists they must be lying..

only mainstream media tells the truth. :sarcasm:

[BikeWriter]

23. Believe what you wish.

[Lerkfish]

8. CNN labeled the 70 dead "terrorists".

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/10/17/iraq.main/index.html

BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- The U.S. military said Monday that coalition forces launched airstrikes Sunday in and around Ramadi, west of Baghdad, killing "an estimated 70 terrorists."

But an Iraqi doctor who reported 20 people killed -- including six children -- and 25 wounded said all those were civilians.

An Iraqi Ministry of Health official also said one child was killed and two women wounded in the airstrikes. (Watch controversy over U.S. airstrikes -- 2:07)

Military officials said they had no reports of civilians killed.
--------

so....if we kill them, they're terrorists I guess. :puke:

[BikeWriter]

11. Same story, different source.

The objective truth may be either way or somewhere in between, I don't know.

"About 1:30 p.m. on Sunday, insurgents in four cars were spotted trying to roll artillery shells into a large crater in eastern Ramadi, where a roadside bomb Saturday killed five American soldiers and two Iraqi soldiers, said Col. John Gronski, commander of the Army's 2nd Brigade Combat Team. An F-15 fighter plane dropped a guided bomb on the area, killing all 20 men on the ground, he said.

Gronski said that no civilians had been killed in the strikes. Ramadi police Capt. Ali Salem, however, said a number of those slain were civilians."

http://www.denverpost.com/nationworld/ci_3126372

[Armstead]

15. Regarding the World Socialist Web Site

Whatever one's political leanings are, the WSWS is actually a very good source for news and an alternative analysis of events.

One does not have to agree with the WSWS answers to recognize that they are very good at getting the facts which are often overlooked, and analyzing the problems.

[cantstandbush]

20. Here is what one Arab newspaper (Al-jazeera0 says about it.

Dozens of Iraqis die in US air strikes


Monday 17 October 2005, 14:40 Makka Time, 11:40 GMT


A US army statement says there were no civilian casualties

US warplanes and helicopters have bombed two villages near the city of Ramadi where witnesses say at least 39 civilians have been killed, while the US army says the air strike has killed an estimated 70 fighters.


On Sunday, a group of about two dozen Iraqis gathered around the wreckage of a US vehicle destroyed the previous day by a roadside bomb. The people were hit by the US air strikes, the military and witnesses said.

[BikeWriter]

21. So which account do you believe?

:shrug:

[Neil Lisst]

25. Shades of Vietnam. A village killed, and wouldn't you know it?!

Every one of them hostile, adult male fighters carrying guns.

We are killing innocent women, children, old people, men. This "kill em all, let God sort em out" is a T shirt, not a foreign policy.