I'm convinced Bush is now in danger too.

[mattclearing]

That's why they are trying to toss Cheney to the wolves.

They are in survival mode, which means that Fitzgerald might/may/must have the goods on the President.

They wouldn't toss Cheney to save Rove, that's for sure.

[stop the bleeding]

1. We can hope.

[ewagner]

2. Don't think so

the loyalty is so great in this administration that these people would gladly "take one for Bush*" because they will be rewarded..


and....

they know all too well the consequences of NOT protecting Bush*

[mattclearing]

7. The loyalty is not that great.

And an impeached President has no power.

If Fitzgerald has enough to recommend impeachment, congressmen will choose their jobs over backstabbing Bush.

[Skidmore]

9. An impeached President has no power but the heir to

the Bush financial empire does. He's not there because he's presidential material, he's there because he's one of them. We may not survive this administration, but it's not like the man has to worry about lining up a job if this one falls through.

[mattclearing]

10. Assuming he retains his freedom. n/t

[Skidmore]

11. Shoot, criminals run drug empires from within prisons, and he

won't even go to one of the real prisons. They'll check him into the Ritz or some such place and he'll be receiving courtiers nonstop, except for during his beauty rest, of course.

[BurtWorm]

22. I don't think it's up to Fitzgerald to recommend impeachment or not.

That's the House's job. I wouldn't count on hearing the word "impeachment" from anyone in political power just yet.

[mattclearing]

24. I thought he could serve the House with a recommendation. n/t

[BurtWorm]

27. No. In fact, Starr's recommendation to impeach was widely seen as

overstepping (another of his many) bounds. And Fitzgerald does not have the same (sweeping) powers Starr had, in any case. On the other hand, Fitzgerald does have the power to issue criminal indictments, which could sting a whole lot more than mere impeachment.

[mattclearing]

29. Ahhh...I thought Fitzgerald could name Bush as an unindicted

co-conspirator and then recommend impeachment, but that's just something I read here.

[hang a left]

3. I read Will's post earlier and the only thing that I am afraid of now is..

that they won't get them all. We know it is going to be big. We know heads are gonna roll. But I want Bush too. I will be very disappointed if Bush doesn't go down also.

[mattclearing]

6. I will too.

And the fact that the media is telegraphing a Cheney resignation says to me that they are trying to grab control of the situation before the entire group is destroyed. Like I said, they would never, ever toss Cheney for Rove. It's not a fair trade.

[Walt Starr]

4. There's one reason and one reason only to toss the Veep overboard

and that's to protect the guy in the big chair.

[mattclearing]

8. Exactly. They are terrified.

:popcorn:

[katty]

37. More than terrified-it's over-if the fight w/pretensiousness it is hollow

[DeepModem Mom]

5. I dunno -- someone could probably step into Cheney's place, but Satan...

only made one Karl Rove, and assigned him to George W. Bush (as I've said here often). Without that unholy alliance, what is there?

[mattclearing]

16. I can't imagine that Cheney would go down without a fight.

Cheney already freed Libby to go after Rove. We could be watching the greatest reciprocal backstabbing in history.

If the rumors that Cheney has been on the outs with Bush are true, who do you think is smarter, is more equipped to survive, is more likely to screw the other over?

I wonder if Cheney would swallow it and let Bush continue after destroying him.

????

[DeepModem Mom]

19. Very good, very intriguing questions! nt

[mattclearing]

21. And the other thing is Libby's note to Miller.

He told her that the Aspens are turning...he wasn't talking about against Cheney, his boss.

He was talking about against Bush.

He was bringing a media asset home with a pat on the back for a job well done...she protected Cheney as long as she could.

[Mme. Defarge]

12. How about this scenario?

Bush pardons Cheney.

Bush resigns.

Cheney becomes President.

Cheney pardons Bush.

[DeepModem Mom]

14. Good, Mme. Defarge! Welcome to DU!

[daleo]

34. One hand washes the other. n/t

[Booster]

44. And the revolution begins at 9am the next day.

[peacetalksforall]

13. PNAC and the cabal will sacrifice Cheney, but not really. They have

no conscious. They are arrogant perverts of humanity. Cheney will get to make tons of money more legally. He doesn't care one tear what people think and PNAC doesn't either. The only ones who will care are a few Congressional leaders. Not Roberts. Not DeLay. Not Blunt. And a buncha others like them.

This is the reason - PNAC will just put in another of their founders in there to try to pull George's strings for the CEO's and the born agains and their Middle East, European, Asian, and Paraguayan friends. And Dick will go his pompous killing, dealing, thieving, lying way.

(CEO's includes stockholders.)

[mattclearing]

23. The CEO's have already sold out Bush.

Look at the media coverage. Look at the Aspen meeting.

They are washing their hands of this mess and finding someone new.

[alcibiades_mystery]

31. conscience

not conscious.

Although they do often appear to be unconscious...;-)

[peacetalksforall]

46. You're right - too busy with the conspiracies.

[Mosley]

15. I am surprised that we are seeing such a media frenzy

over a story that has been pretty obvious for a couple of months
now. (Ever since Cooper testified)

It was obvious that once Cooper revealed the source of Rove and Libby, that it would have to at least look at Cheney. These
guys are hand in glove and one has to assume if Libby leaked, Cheney
knew about it.

However, the question is proof of that as a fact. Seems like Fitzgerald not likely to pursue such an allegation without real solid
proof.

Whatever else you can say, Cheney is the sitting VEEP. So, as the saying goes, if you strike at the king.... you better kill him.

[mattclearing]

17. Welcome to DU, Mosley.

And you are right. That is the other reason.

Everyone knows Bush pushed to get into Iraq. He made the decision before the intelligence was in place. The DSM indicate that. Media reports show it.

Fitzgerald should not have far to look to link Bush's direct orders to falsify intelligence if someone has turned against him.

The question is, who has the gall to point the finger at Bush?

[sofa king]

18. It does look like a plan, doesn't it?

1) Investigate the comparatively mundane Plame leak.

2) Pin it on the Vice President and Karl Rove, l'eminance grise of the Bush Presidency.

3) Get Cheney to resign.

4) Take advantage of the political backlash to secure gains in the House and the Senate.

5) Impeach President Bush, thus revoking any pardons he may issue to his underlings.

6) Send every last one of the bastards to jail forever.

Ah, but it is nice to dream, isn't it? The unfortunate fact of the matter is that the gangsters in charge control one of the largest arsenals in the history of humankind, so it's not a simple matter of telling them to be good lads and run off to federal pound-me-in-the-ass prison.

The best we can hope for, I fear, is that they will be allowed to slink off with about a sizeable chunk of the nation's wealth, savings, and prestige. Perhaps that will be enough.

[mattclearing]

20. I think he will be referred for impeachment now.

As an unindicted co-conspirator.

If Fitzgerald is going at the falsified case for the Iraq war, then the buck stops with Bush.

[Richard D]

25. From your keyboard . . .

. . . to the ears of God.

[Ksec]

26. Did I not hear that bushcheney discussed this Plame affair?

[mattclearing]

28. Didn't all the principals, Bush included, pass around the memo? n/t

[peacetalksforall]

30. The have to go after Bush for the AF! caper. They have to go after

Cheney for stuff happening in his meetings and phone calls.

[Ksec]

32. well then. Its official . Cant do one without doing both.

Fitzy is in a pickle. Indicting the entire bush administration would be bold. It would be right , but it would be unprecedented.

Thats never happened before , has it?

[mattclearing]

36. I don't know that he can indict a sitting President.

But Mosley said above that if you strike at the King, you'd better kill him.

Fitzgerald would be incredibly foolish to come this far and leave Bush in power.

[electron_blue]

33. No - I think Cheney is more valuable to "them" than Bush

I'm just saying......

Look at who has the real control in this administration, who is really running profiteering from Iraqi & Afghanistan wars, who was first to profiteer from Katrina contracts.... who was behind the FIRST Iraq war? Who is making the real money? It's Cheney. And he's not just making it for himself, he's sharing the love.

[mattclearing]

35. That's exactly it.

Which is why if Cheney is leaving, and Libby said that about the Aspens turning, it means Bush is toast.

[spinbaby]

38. I'm surprised they don't toss the Chimp overboard

He's getting more and more mentally incompetent and it's getting tough to hide. Doesn't matter if it's alcohol, drugs, or what--the man is faltering badly and they need to get rid of him before he wets his pants in public.

[mattclearing]

41. That gave me a chuckle.

Seriously, he's finished. Anyone can see that just by watching him in front of reporters.

They would do well to get this over with.

[cassiepriam]

39. I agee 100%. I have thought the same thing.

If it goes up as far as Cheney, jawtick is in trouble too.
Cheney will take the hit for him?

[mattclearing]

40. I don't think so.

I'm starting to think Cheney thinks he's not worth the trouble.

[cassiepriam]

42. LOL He's not.

[npincus]

43. No- I think the Chimp-in-a-Bubble has been well insulated from

all... he didn't even know about black people locked in the NO Convention Centeruntil 4 days later. (or so he says).

I think the minions keep the king protected. And Cheney's the real president anyway.

[peacetalksforall]

45. It has always been my contention that Rove works for Cheney.

With a heirarchy that looks something like this:

. Tri-Lateral Commission and the super wealthy movers and shakers whose names are never in the news for politics.
. Another level of bankers, ceo's, foundation presidents, military brass, and foreigners like M Thatcher and maybe the Queen, plus owners in the media, and judges, and clans such as the Saudi family and rhe Rev Moon.
. Hard core republican leaders who write the objectives and execute the plan and authorize certain people to act it out - from Fed Society AEI Heritage and other similar organization.
. PNAC which makes up a list of people who are in the above, but who have been given permission to try their plan.
. Cheney
. Rove Libby and all the others who strategize.
. Bush, imo, is at the bottom - a figurehead for their faithful followers.

When a reverend becomes angry - he goes up the ladder past Bush.
When the head of a big corporation is worried about something - he goes past Bush.

And not because Bush is busy flying around.