Rice for pres rumors again-Would the south rise again?

[submerged99]

Are the Beltway "strategists" so insulated from reality that they actually believe republican white guys would turn out in droves to vote for a black woman as their leader? If the repukes are at each others throats over Miers then I wonder why they don't realize a Rice nomination wouldn't be far more catastrophic for their party.

I know we've been hearing these Rice for pres in 2008 rumors for awhile and they just won't seem to die. Now, with rumors that Cheney might go f*ck Himself and resign, the scuttlebut is that Rice might take his place in a lead up to a pres run in 2008.

I have family in the south and I've worked there at different times of my life and I don't see any of those crimson colored neck types accepting a black woman as the President of the U.S. I think it's more likely that the south would abandon the repuke party in droves and sign up with the local KKK chapter.

Hey, you know, maybe we should encourage them to nominate Rice as their presidential candidate..it would surely collapse the party.

[henslee]

1. My choco milk just came out my nose.

[wuushew]

2. This thread will be construed as South bashing

:popcorn:

[expatriot]

7. but it specifically refers to Southern Republicans.

Not the entire south.

[Carrion]

18. So???

[sui generis]

37. it's hurtful here on DU and if you can't be any better

than the shit you're here to get away from then I don't see the point of calling yourself a progressive.

That's why.

[expatriot]

3. god, a Rice nomination would be funny... the GOP establishment

trying to contain a "white racist male insurrection."

[calico1]

4. When push comes to shove I think a lot of

Repugs would be outraged having a black woman as VP--one step away from president. Oh sure, they can accept her now. But a lot of them are so racist and I think it will show if she gets that close. And I mean repugs all over the country.

[sui generis]

5. that's wrong bubba

Nice of you to associate republicans in the south with racism and the KKK but, er, have you checked out the history of any northern states in this regard?

You played a bunch of stereotypes just now - unworthy of "progressives" at DU.

The "north", since we're talking, is just as full of KKK, and racists.

[expatriot]

16. Well, it is true that the Republicans took the South from the Democrats

over civil rights and segregation issues. this thread specifically refers to southern Republicans, while there are racist and racist Republicans in the north, I think it is fair to say that the Republicans "won" the south from the Democrats on the race issue and this post muses on the fact that this very bigotry may hurt the GOP with Condi.

[sui generis]

19. uh, that war was some time ago, bubba.

Just in case you've been behind on the news.

edited to add humor.

I'm still trying think of something humorous. I'm fresh out.

This thread is vaguely racist. The real reason people would NOT vote for C. Rice is that she is essentially dishonest, and creepy, and a lot more people than just "rawceeeests" would not vote for her as a result.

Okay, rawceest was humorous.

[expatriot]

27. um... no. it was only forty years ago, strom thurman just died and

he was a living example of it.


did this thread say that THE reason ALL PEOPLE wouldn't vote for Condi was she was black? NO it was referrring only to Republcian base voters.


gotta get to work will respond to any counters tonight.

[sui generis]

33. this thread is bullshit

I guess people living in the precious saintly north will do anything to preserve their untouchable view of the south as little changed since the civil war. They really should get out more, pick up a newspaper, visit a big city.

Yes there are racists everywhere, in case you haven't noticed. Responding to this thread being about racist republicans in the south is like saying I don't beat my wife very often. Had to move the dots a little closer there. I can also connect them if anyone would like.

The reason MOST republicans wouldn't vote for a female president is because Republicans in particular are deeply authoritarian and patriarchal, and to those kinds of people women don't rate, regardless of skin color. However, you will even find some Democratic men who are that way and who probably wouldn't vote for a woman either, even if a man was the less qualified candidate.

Making this a comment about the civil war is just dumb. The big cities in "the north" during the civil riots, like almost any big city anywhere, including the south, were much more open to "integration" and tolerance, and that is still true today. However, 15 miles outside of Chicago, 30 miles west of Washington, D.C., and in just about any small town in liberal California 40 years ago and last year blacks and mexicans and queers and wicca are still not welcome. Politicians from rural areas everywhere, including some democrats, have a much greater tendency to "racism" and xenophobia than politicians from heavily populated and urban areas and south and north doesn't have a darn thing to do with it.

Don't make this just about the south. That is all.

[NWHarkness]

20. Are you disassociating Southern Republicans from racism and the KKK?

And do you actually believe the KKK is now, or ever was, as strong in, say, Vermont or Minnesota as in georgia or Mississippi?

[sui generis]

23. or Washington state?

or Kansas or Missourri? bone up on your history first, then come back and challenge me.

Anyway I do not beat my wife very often. I don't even have one.

The point is that more than racists, whether from the "south" or the "north" (ya dang yankees, the woah is ovah!!!!!) would fail to vote for Rice.

[NWHarkness]

29. Im asking you to clarify yourself

I didn't realize that would be a challenge for you.

[sui generis]

35. didn't realize reading comprehension was your weak suit

or civility, but then you threw the gloves down first, ya damn yankee.

we're all a bunch of slack jawed racists here in the south (yawn). I think I'll go have a mint julep now and beat a darkie.

You really should get out of your suburb more. And you suck at posturing, by the way.

[NWHarkness]

38. By all means , educate me

You objected to "associating" Southern republicans with the KKK. No one made any broader claim about southerners in general, or you in particular.

The fault may lie in sloppy syntax, but if you reread the original post and your reply to it, you might realize the apparent, if unintended, meaning of your own words.

But, if you do indeed contend that Klan activity has been as widespread in Vermont as it has in Mississippi, I will gladly attend to your history lesson.

[Chan790]

31. No...

but I can tell you that up in NW (Berkshires-area) CT they're plenty strong. These are also the predominantly GOP parts of the state, take as you will.

I'm only 25 and I remember when it wasn't safe for blacks (Here (CT, in general) for some reason, blacks do not like the term "African-American" (and view it as epithetical), I don't know, I just accept.) to go out after dark for fear of assault in the town I grew up in. Said town is now one of the richest in the state and has a large minority population...but in my experience that just sets the Klannies teeth on edge here. It's upset the good ole' boy network that has held power here for 300 years within a small cadre of families.

[NWHarkness]

39. There is racism everywhere in America

But, oddly, noticing it in the South is somehow considered a faux pas among some DUers.

[sui generis]

44. it's a sensitive issue

like being black and saying you like fried chicken to a bunch of white people. It may be true but it just reinforces YOUR stereotypes. Everybody likes fried chicken.

Oddly.

Truce, Harkness, I'm not as upset as the tenor of my posts would indicate. Just trying to point out that this is kind of lopsided and surprised that intelligent people here are defending it.

Cheers -

-sui

[Texasgal]

51. Oh bullshit.

" Noticing racism in the south" is not a faux paux.

Constant bashing and constant maligning the south with racism or other social ill... is.

I know that you northerners who can't seem to grasp that there alot of decent, non-righteous people in the south need to get a grip. REALLY. :eyes:

[zanne]

42. Don't bother, NWHarkness

I've been part of threads like this before. Somebody from the south (or formerly from the south), gets very, very sensitive and all rational discussion goes down the drain. They will NEVER admit that the South is, or was, more racist than the North.

[sui generis]

43. again I'm

off to have a mint julep and beat a darkie, just as soon as I'm over my vapors.

You too missed the point.

This thread, to start over was a lame attempt to point out that racism and not patriarchal bigotry would be the reason a black republican presidential candidate would fail. That was a point made to start a fight, not to be an open discussion of ideas.

Yes, don't bother. And all you uptight northerners are perfectly all right having us backwater yokels down here generalize about you and your phimotic little weeners. See, there goes the rational discussion, right down the drain. :sarcasm: squared.

Was more racist than the north may be true, but also besides the point of this thread, racism is not REALLY the issue in such a vote.

Playing old stereotypes should be beneath us - guys we're on the same team and it's not constructive.

[Texasgal]

55. Sensitive?

Really?

This is from the OP. This statement:

I have family in the south and I've worked there at different times of my life and I don't see any of those crimson colored neck types accepting a black woman as the President of the U.S. I think it's more likely that the south would abandon the repuke party in droves and sign up with the local KKK chapter.

Yeah, call me sensitive. :eyes:

[raccoon]

58. Oh, really? What was that about in Toledo, OH, last weekend?

The Neo-Nazi March.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051017/ap_on_re_us/nazi_march_30

Edited to add link.

[Kierkegaard]

6. The bible belt would collectively

burn a cross on the White House lawn.

[MADem]

8. Sure, why not, they voted for a fake cowboy who cannot speak in sentences

and who was a drunken cokehead AWOL bum!!! Being black and female are small hurdles by comparison.

If the "right" people get up and sing her praises, loudly, in unison, drowning out all opposition, giving knowing winks and nods, they would vote for a ham sandwich with spider legs.

They don't THINK anything through--they simply obey.

[sui generis]

36. "they voted"

"they do this" "they do that"

listen to yourself.

HALF OF US DOWN HERE DID NOT, and even some republicans did not.

And the "They" is all over the united states.

Thanks for bringing a note of unity to DU, amid the generalizations about the south.

[MADem]

47. Well, DUH, everyone knows that

Listen to yourself, yourself--you are being far too sensitive, I think...or maybe I am misreading what you are saying, I am not really sure at this point what you are trying to say to me.

The question was raised if Condi could "win" the south.

Keep in mind that the winning votes are the only ones that count, whether obtained fairly or by hook and crook. If you vote for the loser, your vote has no weight, even if cheating is involved. It might not be right, but it is the way the game works.

I opined, in short, that they voted for one idiot, why not another, and you jump all over me. I think....

I would have responded the same way if the question had been posed at the national level, FWIW.

Not everyone has a prejudice against the south. I sure don't. I lived there for years.

Sheeeeyat.....

[sui generis]

49. we know this

but in general, threads like this bring out numbnuts who don't differentiate. The difference isn't between the south and the north, it's between urban and rural/ex-urban America for the most part. In this very thread are "the south voted for this president" which is only true in a semantic sense, and not the complete truth. AM Talk Radio and Clear Channel America voted for this president is much closer to the truth.

There are better ways of making the OP's point. That is all I tried to convey. I'm not really deeply outraged on behalf of all plush bunnies everywhere; was just trying to communicate that the OP's theory was incorrect or only a small or partial truth at best.

sorry my dander got up yesterday and I was running around flouncing my petticoats and making faces :pals:

[MADem]

62. Never mind, you jus' worry about it tomorrow!!!!

I know what you are saying though, it is an easy trap to fall into. Those old stereotypes are convenient when the result, no matter what the actual reason, bears them out.

And Diebold has a way of helping the conventional wisdom (which is not really wise at all) along...

[knitter4democracy]

9. Not just the south.

I grew up here in rural Michigan, and many, many, many people I know here would stay home in droves, too. It's not just that she's black--she's also a woman. That, and she's from the educated elite (ice skater, for goodness sake, instead of softball or basketball, the cheaper sports).

My husband has been saying this for awhile, but I think it'll be Guiliani.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

10. It's a joke. They like to talk it up, as long as there's no real

possibility of it happening.

The modern Republican party has invested WAY too much effort in pimping racism for this ever to be feasible.

Look at the reaction of people to Katrina and New Orleans and the looters, to get an indication.

[TahitiNut]

28. Agreed. It's talk they'll NEVER have to walk.

Cheap, hypocritical P/R. "See how diverse we are? We even consider this!" Bullshit!

[LondonReign2]

11. Please please please GOP, please run CONdi

I want to see all the lies she recited in the war run-up recycled and come back to bite her on her lying, incompetent ass. I think a re-airing of Condiliar's "mushroom cloud" schtick would make a fine anti-CONdi campaign commercial.

[Rob H.]

50. I'm with you

Her "we don't want the smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud" schtick and ignoring the PDB titled "Bin Laden Determined to Strike in U.S." would be some potent ammunition for anyone interested in using them for TV and radio ads. They perfectly highlight how duplicitous and inept she's been.

[Bluestar]

12. The Midwest too

Hi

I absolutely agree with you. But if the Repukes are this stupid, let's take it as a gift!

I'm from the midwest and I can tell you that racism there is almost as bad as the south. Many would NEVER vote for a woman, let alone an African American woman no matter what her politics are.

[Bluestar]

13. The Midwest too

Hi

I absolutely agree with you. But if the Repukes are this stupid, let's take it as a gift!

I'm from the midwest and I can tell you that racism there is almost as bad as the south. Many would NEVER vote for a woman, let alone an African American woman no matter what her politics are.

[bullimiami]

14. i wonder.

A mostly black jury refused to convict OJ. He is a rich black elite with a white wife. Not of their peer group or class by any means.
Would Condi by virtue of her black skin and sex automatically get some higher percentage of the black or female vote? Regardless of her demonic associations.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

21. They'd lose WAY more whites than gain blacks.

[Ksec]

15. Not just southerners but northener whites

There are lotsa northern racists also.

[LetsGoMurphys]

24. I know plenty of dyed in the wool democrats who are

from the northeast who despise Bush & Co. but are also very racist. Kinda weird huh?

[raccoon]

59. YES! YES! Also a lot of Midwestern and Western racists. nt

[yy4me]

17. No matter what color Rice is, she is an angry woman, I can't

see the American electorate voting in any more people who have a constant chip on their shoulder(cheney types). We need not only capable people in office but people who make us feel good about the fact that they represent us. Its great fun (sure) to see all the current gang grit their teeth, look at the floor, snarl, mumble and, in general, make themselves look uncomfortable. When this gang makes its forced march out the door, I hope we get people who can smile, converse with intelligence and make us feel like we are represented, not ripped off and insulted.

[On the Road]

22. It Would be the Southern Strategy in Reverse

The Republicans would voluntarily be giving away the South again after forty years.

[TNDemo]

25. Bet those folks in Toledo would be thrilled too.

nt

[Behind the Aegis]

26. Schism

If that were to happen, I could see two Rethug parties emerging. One would be the McCain types, more on the 'moderate' side. Then there would be the party of the racists, homophobic, misogynists who pretend they are not. It would not be limited to the South by any stretch of the imagination. We would need a new color. Red people (moderate Rethugs), Blue people (dems), and YELLOW people, for the racist Rethugs.

[rogerashton]

30. I so want to see a Condi-Hillary race.

Well -- in one frame of mind I do. Actually, I'd still like to see the demos nominate Wes Clark. But damn, it would be so much fun watching wingnuts corrode in a Condi-Hillary race.

[submerged99]

32. It's just a bizarre strategy that I don't get

Yeah, so I should have been more specific by referring to Southern Republicans which I thought was understood in my post(I was musing and not trying to compose a sober, scholarly analysis of the issue.) I also understand those of the former confederate states do not possess a monopoly on racism.

Back on point. As others have pointed out, the Repukes would lose far more votes than they would gain from any switch voters. So why would they alienate their base in order to gain a few democrats who might be persuaded to vote solely on Rice's race?

Perhaps they think they would tie the Dem's hands by running a candidate who is "attack proof" because of her gender and race. If that's the case, the Dems could simply counter this by running their version of Condi Rice.

Could we see a Maxine Waters vs Condi Rice match in the next presidential elections? Or could we see Condi Rice (R) vs Zell Miller (D) . I seriously doubt it but the repuke fantasies of Condi as a serious candidate provoke me to envision scenarios like that.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

53. It's not worth puzzling through the "complexities" of the scenario,

because it simply won't happen. I think the Repubs like to HINT at this, when there's no election nearby, to show how "diverse" and "race friendly" they are when their party is in fact quite the opposite.

All such talk will disappear within 2 years of any actual campaign.

[northzax]

34. Rice could never win the Republican nomination

it's not because she's black, it's not because she's a woman, it's because she's not a conservative, evangelican christian. That's what she's missing. The 'activist wing' of the republican party, the ones who work and vote in primaries, especially in the south, are evenagelican christians, and will not support someone who is not. the GOP has sold it's soul to the church, and it won't be easy to take it back.

[enigma000]

40. How much of the black vote would she pick up?

That constituency is reliably Democratic, yes? And would it force the Dems to run Hillary?

[0007]

41. This cheap sheep shit is starting to get on my nerves......

0f course the scenario could go like this; rice takes cheney's VP job,
junior is JFK ed and guess what?

[mondo joe]

45. I want a photoshop of a bunch of Confederate flag waving good ol'

boys with their CONDI IN 2008 buttons and signs.

[wakemewhenitsover]

46. Why is Rice teflon?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5093250

[ecstatic]

48. Here's how she might end up with the black vote

The vicious attacks directed towards her from the more racist elements of the right (and maybe even the left) would cause many blacks to instinctly take up for her. But the white vote that she would not get would most likely outweigh even a 100% black turnout in her favor. Although none of this matters since the machines are rigged.

[txaslftist]

52. It's actually a pretty good long term strategy.

They put up Condaleeza, she loses, they get to cry foul for the Dems being racists, and the Dem president is stuck cleaning up the messes made by Shrub. Then they come back in four years, hoping to make interim gains in the black vote (because Dems are so obviously racist), and they get to recover from the fiasco that was GWB, by blaming any and all problems that are still extant on whoever we put in the WH.

I mean, they CAN read polls, after all.

[ultraist]

54. Bush's highest ratings are in the Midwest and NWestern states

Is racism still worse in the South?

Are the gaps between Blacks and whites in education, income, life span, healthcare, home ownership, etc worse in the South?

Do you have any facts to back up your claim? Or are you perpetuating an old stereotype, that at one time was true.

Last I read, DC has the highest infant mortality rates for Black babies, the highest poverty rate for Blacks and NYC has the most segregated schools in the nation. Boston has the most segregated housing. Los Angeles has the highest number of hate crimes and the most active and violent hate groups (skinheads, neo nazis and KKK).

[1932]

56. Rice couldn't win for this reason:

She built her career around being a Sovietologist. What has happened during the Bush administration is evidence of the irrelevence of her experience. She has a relatively useless frame for seeing the world, and we can see the consequences of that.

She has the image of being a scholarly and thoughtful. That is her strength. But it's also her weakness. She's such a Poindexter. She's like the kid from middle school who knew everything about butterflies. Having exhaustive knowledge about a narrow, not entirely relevant subject is a liability.

When a candidates strengths can so easily be cast as their weaknesses, the candidate is going nowhere (or at least is going to have a very hard time).

Incidentally, consider Bush. The only reason he got even close enough to steal the election was because straight out of the gates, his campaign made his weaknesses his strengths -- he's a simple guy, who cares about character more than anything else and who will surround himself with good people. That reveresed the weaknesses of a business failure who relied on family connections to get ahead and who didn't have the intellectual skills to be president.

[MADem]

63. Yeah, she can name every dead Soviet General since 1917!!!

And I will bet she can do a wire diagram of every directorate under every leader since Lenin!

That and a couple of bucks will get her a latte!

[neoteric lefty]

57. Rice couldn't even get the nomination

the Right is starting to get wary of Bush and Co. They want someone extreme. Even if she does get the nomination, it will be hard for her to get the base excited.

[triguy46]

60. too much inherent racism...

they love condi and jc watts, even colin, and worship clarence, but for president? I think I hear strom thurmond choking. These are to serve, not to lead. They just could not bring themselves to it. She would never get the nomination. all the promises of delivering the black or the womens vote is bull, and insulting to a race and a gender who can surely see that she does not support those causes and efforts to help either group.

[nadinbrzezinski]

61. Let me worst cae me absolutely worst case this

We know that there are a bunch of rather open racist not only in teh South, but across the coutry

We also know the GOP has been playing the race card all these years and indeed the Dixicrats abandoned the Dems over Civil Rights.

They have their racist hate fed on a regular basis over at hate radio

They see a woman, a black woman, one step from the presidency....

Can you say Oklahoma City type events just as the opening salvo?