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H2OMan Scooped the Hanna FLIP 14 MONTHS AGO, Sorry Raw Story...

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symbolman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 03:22 PM
Original message
H2OMan Scooped the Hanna FLIP 14 MONTHS AGO, Sorry Raw Story...
and here's the link to prove it..

NO "Some official guy" or "Easter Bunny Deep Throat" crap..

Here it is in blazing GLORY..

Let's give Credit where credit is due!!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2277059

H2OMan is DA MAN!

(PS, my stack of DVDs are on their way today, "Rove's War" will make a great Xmas gift for your kids, who I'm sure are as SHARP as you my friend -- we'll need YOUR kids to run "the Machine" when all these monsters are cleared out :) )

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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 03:26 PM
Response to Original message
1. This is why the corporate media wouldn't talk about Plame all last year.
Most of the DC media KNEW Rove and Libby and all of Cheney's office were the traitors who outed a CIA agent, and they CHOSE to NOT tell their audiences filled with voters.
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #1
18. And that is why there is no such a thing as a "liberal" media.
The corporate media needed * in office.
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #1
40. By the way, Larry Johnson posted that Hadley expects to be indicted.
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ohio_liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 03:26 PM
Response to Original message
2. Mad props to H2OMan
:toast:

:yourock:
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gkhouston Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 03:28 PM
Response to Original message
3. now, symbolman...
this sort of post doesn't count unless you put 5 or 6 exclamation points in the subject line. For shame. ;-)
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symbolman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #3
32. Get series
but wate, yor right, i don't want to be a looser11111

thanks :)
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Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #32
75. It's still HUGH!!1!!1!1!!111 though
:evilgrin:
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oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 03:32 PM
Response to Original message
4. Bravo.
:woohoo:
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eleny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 03:36 PM
Response to Original message
5. Nominated!
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Generator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 03:37 PM
Response to Original message
6. Apparently this was known in February 2004
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0205-12.htm

I just hope it means that Fitz has been working Hannah over that long.

Cheney's Staff Focus of Probe
by Richard Sale

Federal law-enforcement officials said that they have developed hard evidence of possible criminal misconduct by two employees of Vice President Dick Cheney's office related to the unlawful exposure of a CIA officer's identity last year. The investigation, which is continuing, could lead to indictments, a Justice Department official said.

According to these sources, John Hannah and Cheney's chief of staff, Lewis "Scooter" Libby, were the two Cheney employees. "We believe that Hannah was the major player in this," one federal law-enforcement officer said. Calls to the vice president's office were not returned, nor did Hannah and Libby return calls.

The strategy of the FBI is to make clear to Hannah "that he faces a real possibility of doing jail time" as a way to pressure him to name superiors, one federal law-enforcement official said.


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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. His role was known
early on.
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Sydnie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #9
35. as usual! You are right on the money


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Skinner ADMIN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 03:40 PM
Response to Original message
7. Nice.
Cheers, H2O Man. :toast:
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #7
43. I think it shows
the quality of work that a good team of DUers put in. Almost all of the things being said on the corporate media have been said on DU weeks or months ago, by the loose-knit, growing group of people who recognized early on how important this case is. It speaks well of the Democratic Underground!
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 03:41 PM
Response to Original message
8. That is true but DUer ByeDick figured things out in 2003. :-)
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Maddy McCall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 03:46 PM
Response to Original message
10. Big pat on the back for H20Man.
:toast:
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 03:49 PM
Response to Original message
11. Way cool!!! And, congrats to DUer ByeDick, as well!! Wish I had ...
... been at DU sooner ... thanks H2Oman for all your excellent insights!!

:toast: x 2


Peace.
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Gregorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 03:49 PM
Response to Original message
12. I stand on his shoulders.
Thank you H2OMan for your support.

You brought your knowledge to us. And in the kindest way possible. You're an inspiration.
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yodermon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 03:51 PM
Response to Original message
13. I asked this on another thread
And maybe I'm just a lazy researcher, but this quote from H20's thread,
posted Aug 28, 2004:
Last week's news indicated that a White House official named John Hannah was turning state's evidence in the grand jury investigation of the leaking of Plame's identity. Hannah has reportedly implicated Lewis "Scooter" Libby, the top assistant to VP Dick Cheney.

makes we want to ask, what was "Last week's news" as of Aug 28th, 2004, that indicated Hannah was turning state's evidence on Libby?

Is it in the later Plame threads? Can't do advanced search right now.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #13
26. I reported it
at that time for those who read DU. It wasn't in the corporate media, or on other sites.
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yodermon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #26
44. Ah, understood.
:toast:
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SupplyConcerns Donating Member (305 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 03:51 PM
Response to Original message
14. Curious: Who is H2OMan?
Does he have a government connection or something? Or is he just known for cutting analysis?
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bobbieinok Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #14
31. check out his blog
http://h2oman.blogspot.com

many interesting essays
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 03:52 PM
Response to Original message
15. Wow...I didn't get here...
till the election. I am amazed, once again at the material that has been amassed here, and feel very fortunate to have it available to me, to read and learn. To all you great teachers...thank-you :toast:
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Disturbed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. H2O Man is our DU Secret Agent Man
;0)
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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #17
45. We at DU say "hi" to Agent Mike.
But Agent Mike knows who's really in charge and says "hi" to H20Man. :P
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Im with Rosey Donating Member (619 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #15
24. Me too.
It is amazing the information that quickly and accurately flies here, isn't it? Can I get an amen?! Oh, Yeah- CHEERS TO H2Oman!!:woohoo:
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Pithy Cherub Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 03:53 PM
Response to Original message
16. H2O Man, An Oracle and Orator of the first rank!
The ability to see how the Speacial Prosecutor went through and just decimated the ranks before going after the anchor weights at the top!

So, when is the H20 Man book coming out? Seriously, pre-sales, when, really want to know whenH20 Man...:yourock:
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 03:58 PM
Response to Original message
19. Cheers to our resident profit - H2O Man
:toast:
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #19
47. Profit and prophet, mszmolly!
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #47
60. Oh fer gosh sakes. Did I type "proFit??"
Edited on Tue Oct-18-05 07:58 PM by mzmolly
Freudian slip - you all have my apologies.

:hide:
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 06:28 AM
Response to Reply #60
87. Well, H2O's insights have certainly been to our profit,
in terms of hope, encouragement, understanding - on many levels, haven't they?
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #87
93. They certainly have.
:hi: Thanks for the diplomacy. ;)
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dalloway Donating Member (744 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 03:59 PM
Response to Original message
20. We love you H20 Man!
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pinto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 04:07 PM
Response to Original message
21. kudos, H2OMan.
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Mandate My Ass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 04:09 PM
Response to Original message
22. Kudos to H20Man
Very smart cookie and all around good guy. Waterman, :yourock:
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 04:10 PM
Response to Original message
23. H2O Man - ahead of the curve, as usual.
Edited on Tue Oct-18-05 04:11 PM by BrklynLiberal
:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:
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Ernesto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 04:38 PM
Response to Original message
25. & the wingnuts make fun of the MIGHTY Democratic Underground
HA!
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peekaloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 04:46 PM
Response to Original message
27. Cheers!
:toast:
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Garbo 2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 04:52 PM
Response to Original message
28. Recall that in 2004 Fitz indicated his investigation was pretty much done
but he needed Cooper's and Miller's testimony to tie up loose ends.

This summer and fall most of the corporate press has been acting with its usual amnesia about what had previously been reported the year before. Like Hannah.

But kudos to DUers like H20Man and bloggers who note things, put them together, do not forget and remind the rest of us when the corporate media runs about from "scoop" to "scoop."
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enough Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 04:55 PM
Response to Original message
29. That is a great article, well worth reading again now , in the
light of current events.
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Blue_Roses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 05:01 PM
Response to Original message
30. way to go!
:applause:
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lildreamer316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #30
33. Kick ass!
Once again;at the forefront of the political war.....
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 05:16 PM
Response to Original message
34. Excellent H2OMan!
And, thanks, Symbolman, for bringing this up outta the archives!
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symbolman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #34
38. It was H2OMan who inspired me to make my film
"Rove's War" at Takebackthemedia.com - once I realized that between what He and others here where saying, and after flying from Hawaii to DC to film the Downing Street Minutes Hearing in HiDefinition (word was that NO MEDIA other than CSPAN 3 was going to cover it) I realized that these were ALL Joined at the HIP - the DSM and Plame Outing not only compliment each other, but PROVE each other's claims..

So my film wends the DSM Hearing with some CNN footage that was ON THE MARK, and Waxman's ex CIA agent hearing, along with clips from Jon Stewart SLAMMING them, and a few fun graphics from "the worried shrimp" so that it illuminates, educates and entertains all at the same time, and with FACTS/A Chronology to end Confusion and spin.. Joe Wilson systematically dismantles ALL of the Republican Talking Points and UNDER OATH, tells the whole story, straight from the horses mouth.. along with Ray McGovern, Johson, Marcinkowski, tons of folks proving it, and laying it on the line..

I really enjoy watching it myself and I should be sick of it, but I like it - it's like 100 of my best Flash work all rolled into one (if anyone has seen my work with Flash political humorous attack ads)..

I should have dedicated it to H2OMan, but did it for my wife, who would be the smartest person in the world, if she hadn't married ME :)

But H2OMan, Octafish, Understandinglife, and many others were MY personal inspiration.. watching H2OMan calmly and methodically shred these guys put me in AWE of him..

Look at it this way, NONE of the Media Orgs, even if they WANTED to properly cover a story have enough MONEY to PAY enough people to investigate this matter..

But at the DU we have a COMMUNITY of highly intelligent and Passionate investigators, a FAMILY who WILL set things right..

Tried to tell that to media guys before, they don't get COMMUNAL Capabilties.. or the power of the web, New Media and Blogs being New Literature..

Another Tip 'O the Hat to H20Man :)
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #38
48. That it is, laddie!
"But at the DU we have a COMMUNITY of highly intelligent and Passionate investigators, a FAMILY who WILL set things right.." :patriot: :patriot: :patriot:
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OKNancy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #38
51. I can't wait to get the DVD
For DUers who don't know symbolman...he does outstanding work.
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qanda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 05:20 PM
Response to Original message
36. Beautiful
Good job H2OMan!
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Raster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 05:41 PM
Response to Original message
37. and yet another example of how the "new media" is rising to fill the
vacuum left when the old media whored itself out to bushco*. Further, DU without question, has become a political force of its own, an extension of the new media and a truly grass-roots information concern.

Thanks H2OMan for riding this puppy and thanks Symbolman for bringing it back to our attention.

Long Live the Republic!

Message to FreeRepublic: You folks patted yourselves on the back shamelessly for the "damage" you did to Clinton. He finished his Presidency as one of the most popular United States Presidents ever. The $100 million Whitewater witch hunt yielded nothing of consequence. Now watch the tables turn. These evil bastards and their nefarious misadministration are going to be exposed for the liars, thieves and murderers they really are. Each passing day your relevance comes further into question. Suck it up, baby. You've earned it.
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sniffa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 05:47 PM
Response to Original message
39. *snort*
spitefuL and immature. i'm gLad this as the top of the greatest page.
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symbolman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #39
41. I'm sorry, maybe you still have time to edit your post Sniffy
I really Cannot understand what your point is, was, as.. I don't get what you're trying to say, please post again so we know what you mean..

If you're snorting at me in derision I don't have a problem with that, but if you're dissing H2OMan or anyone else, WHY?

Just trying to understand what's up..
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EVDebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #41
46. Symbolman, you ain't too bad yourself. Digging an Aug '04 post up
means you've done your homework ! As the good Lord says, you're a good and faithful servant. You done DU proud.

And that H2OMan, he's had soooo many great posts...A web treasure !
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sniffa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #39
42. what did i miss?
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blue neen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 06:47 PM
Response to Original message
49. H2OMan, your posts are always informative,
and I look forward to reading them. :toast:

DU really is my news source now (and has been for the last year and a half).
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hootinholler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 06:51 PM
Response to Original message
50. Hey H20 Man,,
This is one for the front page.

My money was on Wurmser. We'll see, eh?

-Hoot
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #50
54. Wurmser
is a dangerous man. He reminds me of Wolfowitz. Bad news, both.
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hootinholler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #54
94. Funny,
Now there's this Wurmser too rumor :evilgrin:

Either one flipping is damaging, both flipping would be nearly insurmountable.

Juan Cole had it in this article last July:
"Hannah had fingers in all three rotten pies from which the worst intel came Sharon's office in Israel, the Pentagon Office of Special Plans (for which Hannah served as a liaison to Cheney), and fraudster Ahmed Chalabi's Iraqi National Congress. Hannah had probably been the one who fed Cheney the Niger uranium story, triggering a Cheney request to the CIA to verify it and thence Joe Wilson's trip to Niamey in spring of 2002, where he found the story to be an absurd falsehood on the face of it."

In short, Hannah was at the center of that vortex of deception that swept us into a disastrous war. When Ambassador Wilson came out with his famous debunking of the infamous "16 words," Hannah was well positioned to go after the heretic.

If we look at the passing of this leak as we would a ball game, as "super smart commenter Sara" pointed out on Digby's blog, the probable trajectory of the ball as it makes its way to the goal goes something like this: "Bolton to Wurmser and Hannah, to Cheney (and/or Libby) to Rove."



BTW, I picked Wurmser because one of his underlings, Micheal Maloof, had a clearance revoked in Dec 01 for leaking something.

-Hoot
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ultraist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 06:53 PM
Response to Original message
52. You heard it here first, right from our very own H20Man!
:applause:
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 06:56 PM
Response to Original message
53. Note: (important)
I do want to make clear that there is no problem on my part with the way Raw Story has reported this. I have nothing but respect for Raw Story. I get a kick out of the lady who posts on DU, Lala. She's what people my generation call "gutsy." I like gutsy people. I don't remember if the Raw Story people were even on DU in the days of the old Plame Threads, where I indeed spoke of Mr. Hannah's flips.
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ignatius 2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 07:03 PM
Response to Original message
55. Damn,H20 man is good..Kudos to him, and I am so glad the media
is catching up.

Interesting that he also mentions the Israeli intel as it seems the Lary Franklin spy case is connected to Niger and Plame.

Deep rooted in corruption and treason,if that isn't what Libby meant,it should have been.
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 07:11 PM
Response to Original message
56. Juan Cole wrote about it in Feb. 2004 (22 months ago) >>>>>
Edited on Tue Oct-18-05 07:25 PM by Roland99
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #56
58. Right.
People were certainly writing about Hannah for some time. That article does not, as far as I can see, mention Hannah flipping. I think that is what people are talking about specifically, not just that Hannah was involved.
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #58
59. When was Franklin's spying first known? About the time Hannah flipped?
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #59
61. Interesting question.
I think Franklin was being watched for an extended period. I'm too tired to look that up right now. But I am under the impression that Franklin was cooperating before Hannah .... I could easily be wrong on this .... but I know Franklin had cooperated with investigators for a period of time before he suddenly withdrew his plan to plea, and his willingness to work with the investigators. He had an expensive new attorney. Of course he again changed his mind a year later.
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #61
67. Found this
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/581788.html

But suspicions against Rosen and Weissman focus on a meeting a year later, on July 12, 2004. Franklin was cooperating by then with the FBI, which had threatened him with an indictment after tracking his earlier meetings with the AIPAC men, discovering the alleged hand-over of secret information. He agreed to take part in a sting operation in which he would give the two information and the investigators would then follow them.


Appears Franklin was at least a few months ahead of Hannah in that respect. But, they smell of the same stench.
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lala_rawraw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #58
71. Right, my article is about Hanna flipping...and while it has been rumor
It is now confirmed fact.
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Panda1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 07:29 PM
Response to Original message
57. Excellent.
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 08:06 PM
Response to Original message
62. DU Has the Best "Diggers"
Anywhere. Par none.
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CrackpotAmerica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 08:18 PM
Response to Original message
63. The Invisible Punch!
Kudos to you H20!

Nominated
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lala_rawraw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 09:17 PM
Response to Original message
64. Oh, not happy with the rip on Raw you already did... but the assumption
Edited on Tue Oct-18-05 09:20 PM by lala_rawraw
Is that discussing something and actually confirming something and putting your career on the line is the same thing. While h20 has earned a hell of a tip jar for this, the fact is to research and speculate is not to vet, confirm, and report. No offense to H20, who did a fine job as did other people online all over the net. But a theory does not a reality make.

As for you and Cat-woman, you have been ripping at Raw all day in another forum post, finding that was not getting the attention it deserved, you felt the need to post this, I assume, for the same reasons you were acting our earlier, along with your cat.

Like I said, H20 is great as are other people on this, namely the folks at Kos on this since day 1, but to speculate is not to report and therein the rub is my DU co-member, or what not.

Also wanted to add that it would have been one thing if you posted this first, but earlier in the day, your entire rant about Raw Story was that it was mentioned too often and how your site was so very important, as though anyone suggested anything with regard to that.

Now you post under the guise of giving someone credit. So what is the real issue, because concern for H20 is not it.
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jim3775 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #64
65. Thank you for posting this, I'm sick of the Raw bashing...
Edited on Tue Oct-18-05 09:28 PM by jim3775
on here and in the kos diaries. You were dead-on last night. I read his old post, H20man didn't predict anything, he should be crediting his media sources. Here is the quote:

"Some media reports have noted that Mr. Hannah is "singing like a canary."

As for the "prophet"'s predictions:

"I think there is a very good chance... of the three indictments from the Plame grand jury being handed down before the election."


He writes some good stuff but there are plenty of great writers on kos, antiwar.com and rawstory who have written pretty much the same thing. What is this, the fourth kiss-ass thread today?
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lala_rawraw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #65
69. You know, I will say this again, the left deserves the press it gets...
I have spent the better part of the day defending my story against the "liberal media" (Dana Milbank for one) and left wing bloggers who shall go unarmed while at the same time getting large amounts of hate mail from the right.

This is really not cool and I am really wondering just who the hell the indie press is working for, because to a great many it seems, the indie press is only good until it actually gets the truth over the fence of bullshit, then they are competition... blogs/forums have a very important purpose to be sure, research being the most important quality, but journalism and speculation are not the same thing and as such, to assume that a post signed by a nickname is equal to putting your own credibility on the line, does a de-service to the reporters trying to get the truth out.

Either you protect your fourth estate or you get what is now called the MSM.

Thanks for saying this Jim, it is a welcome respite.

Plus this guy could give a rats arse about a du member who posted this, if you read his earlier work, he uses a whole other reason to go after Raw, and his always in line Cat, is right there.

How really disrespectful and how little these people deserve anything from an honest fourth estate that they clearly do not respect.


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kohodog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #69
76. Lala, The heat only means you're hitting a nerve
I expect the right and MSM to go after you, but it isn't necessary here. Raw Story has broken some great stuff and also links important stories that some of us would never find do to limited time to search through all the sources.

Keep up the good work.

peace

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lala_rawraw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #76
79. and screams "read du" wherever I go
No joke, even in interviews and hire from within the DU pool of writers and thinkers. And thank you kindly.
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Domitan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 09:36 PM
Response to Reply #64
66. I say, "Major props to you all!"
Your Rawstory site along with Americablog are my fav blogs. Dailykos is very close behind. Those three along with numerous others serve as very valuable hard-hitting and honest sources of information, so very sorely needed in this BS world. H20Man is one reason that I frequent this place for insight. You've all done tremendous work.

Truthfully, while constructive criticism is necessary if we're going to stay honest, it doesn't do any good to be divisive by resorting to ego-driven smackdowns to see who does it better and why the other side is full of shit. For instance, I think the flack that Rawstory gets here is not justified. I've followed it closely for over a year. They've been very good at backing up their "teaser" headlines and putting money where their mouths are. Maybe some of the revelations were not as dramatic and earthshattering as hoped, but that doesn't make them a "left version of Drudge". Not only could many of us learn from H20Man's compelling political insight, we could learn from his humility and lack of desire for bravado.
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demobabe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 11:47 PM
Response to Reply #64
80. You never answered a single concern Symbolman voiced over your site
Instead you stalk him in threads and badmouth him. You had three other threads (or more, in multiple forums) going on your 'story' and you have to come over here and shit all over this one.

Classy.

H2O does deserve credit. He always posts without ego for the best of the community. He does his homework and posts intelligently.

I can't say the same for Raw Story.

I don't know how many times I've been in threads where I click through to find Raw Story has simply repurposed someone else's story as their 'own' and given me full frontal assault with fifty-thousand ads so you can make revenue from advertising.

I would really like to be warned that a thread is a Raw Story thread in the subject line so I can avoid reading it. Raw Story has wasted my time many, many times, and I really don't appreciate that.

I'm not the only one that feels this way about Raw Story and the bait and switch postings that are made on DU from them.

Additionally, calling Symbolman a 'little doggie' and Catwoman 'his cat' shows utter and complete disrespect for members of the DU that have been here long before you ever showed up, LaLa. Complete arrogance, too - really unimpressive.

What makes you so much better than the rest of the community here?
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DS1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 09:41 AM
Response to Reply #80
91. Raw Story has a response
DEVELOPING HARD!

whatever the fuck that means :eyes:
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enigmatic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 12:43 AM
Response to Reply #64
84. You're jake w/ me
I read Raw Story first thing when I wake-up; you're one of the good ones.

Don't ever forget that.
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symbolman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 07:26 AM
Response to Reply #64
88. What does this thread
and my posting it for my friend H2Oman have to do with my taking issue (and by the way you NEVER answered my question there) with you on another thread?

THIS is about H2OMan getting the accolades he most richly deserves.

So you KNOW what my motives are for posting this?

If indeed you have such awesome powers of discrimination maybe Raw Story might have a better batting average and not cause so many people (and there were Plenty more complaining on YOUR thread) to wonder why a lot of the "Pant Pant Pant.. Breaking News" threads (I think I counted 6 at a time today) don't pan out or have been already reported.

I was, as others were, remarking that I don't think it's fair and is in my opinion an abuse of the rules for RawStory threads for the most part to NOW say something like, "NYTimes says Blah Blah doing Blah" and then when I click on that post there is nothing but a link to the Main Raw Story page.

Here's an example: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5074591

If you take a look at the thread and follow any links in it you'll find that TIME featured that story, not Raw Story.

As I understand it, if there is an existing MSM link (and I can count at least 8 or more times I've seen this) then the poster is supposed to post THAT link.

Other wise it's a "Vanity Link" and designed to drive traffic to your advertisers, and I just think that's plain wrong. It's like you are mining the DU, and we've seen that before.

I don't go to your site, or any other, and I've explained this before, that hits me with TONS of ads - I don't like ads in my face.

And I don't like people in my face or calling me a DOG in public, so how about an apology for that? I would consider that a personal attack -- what if I had returned the grade school behaviour and called you a FEMALE dog? Don't think you would have liked that.. and I don't do that kind of thing.

Will you answer my question? It's at the other thread, which you claim I abandoned then you came over here saying I left because my posting "wasn't getting the attention it deserved".. I'm not that childish, and frankly am amazed that someone can think that way about another person, or create that impression right here on this thread.

It's just about all I have to say on this thread, but I think the rules should be upheld for everyone - it's trickery in my opinion and I don't think it's fair to anyone.

This is not an attack, just stating what's obvious to a lot of people.

So now let's get back to our regularly featured program where H2OMan, as you said, Speculated and now it has become FACT, uh ... THAT is Vetting in my book, which is another reason I posted HIS speculation become fact right here, to tremendous outpouring of backpatting for HIM. He deserves it.

I just might call up the paperboy early in the morning find out what the big news is and then post that as a "Sources Report" catch of the day...

If only you'd taken the time to google me or look at my site you'd realise I'm not some kind of anal, egocentric freak. I just don't like seeing DUrs "utilized" for gain without doing what everyone else does, getting a nod from Skinner, posting a Fund Raiser with the appropriate disclaimer - which they've had to use since around the time BEV HARRIS was here BILKING PEOPLE with one "Smoking gun" post after the next, except many of them, nearly all didn't pan out - but she KEPT everyone's MONEY.

And on it went, one "smoking gun" request for funds after another, each time more intense while the last "smoking gun" became old news..

But she KEPT the MONEY. So some of us are "gunshy" as a result and don't even like to see the DU lean in that direction, even by accident, or by design.

All I have to say to you on this thread. I'm going to assume that you will continue to trash me, but I don't care - your calling me a "doggie" today said more about you than me dear lla lla..

Seeya.
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 09:43 PM
Response to Original message
68. "I like Raw Story. Raw Story is a friend of mine and you're no Raw Story"
Edited on Tue Oct-18-05 09:50 PM by autorank
What is this. I feel like I'm on Elections again. I've come here to enjoy the camaraderie of aggressive Democrats marching in unity to oust the scoundrels from the halls of power.

Is this a debate over who wrote Shakespeare?

Are we eating our young?

Does the Answer Man really have all the answers?

"All of Western thought is but a footnote to Plato." Alfred North Whitehead (and if it's not him, what does it matter, Plato thought it up first, right?).

I'm happy that Raw Story broke this.

I'm happy understandinglife, one of my very favorite internet commentators, posted the story.

I'm not happy that I missed the chance to to this :evilgrin: because I had the idea first! (or second).

Thanks Raw Story, thanks H20Man (I was a big fan), thanks to anybody and everybody who stands up and speaks the truth while the CM(Corporate Media) lies fallow in the field.
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lala_rawraw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #68
70. Amen
And it is not just DU, the "libral press" is going after us hard too as are the right wing cons. It has been a very long week and a longer 48 hours. What makes it worth all this work is that I can come here and kick off my mental shoes and hang with my fellow DUers.
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #70
74. Flats or...oh, "mental" shoes. Burning up the "blogosphere" as Thom H says

He's got some raw meat to chew on, as does Big Eddie.

Of course Big Eddie got screwed out of the Armed Forces Radio Network after a promise of a slot. He's railing.

Great work. Rest for a few minutes...and back to work. You're readers are hungry, raking the cell bars with a tin can, stomping and shouting...



Marie Lafarge
(my other favorite
lala_rawraw)
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 11:52 PM
Response to Reply #68
81. I agree, AutoRank.
I like all of them. It's not good to praise one source and degrade another. We're all on the same team.
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #81
95. We're on the same team is right...
...but sometimes, it feels like hearding cats;)

Your attitude is the best :yourock:




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sonias Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 10:00 PM
Response to Original message
72. Kudos to H2OMan and ByeDick
You both were way ahead of the MSM. Credit to them both. Nice job!
:toast:

Sonia
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AuntiBush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 10:05 PM
Response to Original message
73. The H20 Man Has Had My Attention Since Day One!
Edited on Tue Oct-18-05 10:07 PM by AuntiBush
Don't know who he/she is, but I thank you sincerely, sir/madam. :)

Don't stop now. :popcorn:
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writes2000 Donating Member (481 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 10:21 PM
Response to Original message
77. I Am Immensely Grateful for H2OMan & Raw Story
Both have been great guides on this matter and many others.

And I've recommended both to other people interested in learning more and thinking more about these topics.
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 11:23 PM
Response to Original message
78. H2O Man has been a consistently wise, eloquent and prescient voice at DU
and I am very happy to recommend this thread in his honor, independent of any questions of who said things first. In addition to his knowledge and insights, H2O Man has a gift for calm and unfailing kindness. More than once I have PMed him with some new frantic worry about a political development and he has responded with words that helped me to remember the larger picture and to calm myself for the longer haul.

And then there are his posts, which ALWAYS are worthwhile and full of wisdom, experience, knowledge and insight.

H2O Man - a DU treasure on so many levels.
:patriot:
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Generic Other Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 11:58 PM
Response to Original message
82. I just got my videos today
Edited on Tue Oct-18-05 11:58 PM by Generic Other
Gonna watch them tomorrow and write a review!

Thank you so much!
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symbolman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 03:16 AM
Response to Reply #82
85. Thanks so much Generic Other
Edited on Wed Oct-19-05 03:24 AM by symbolman
I'm interested in your review, a lot of hard work went into that film, and I was inspired by H2OMan and others here to hit it HARD in the first place..

I'm glad for your confidence in all the hard work I've done in Media reform and Political Flash ads all these years and years - work like the MoveOn finalist ARMY OF ONE which showed 3000 times In New Hampshire during the primaries, and other works I've done that were seen and appreciated by Millions all over the planet and how it helps to keep everyone informed, enlightened, educated, and just having a good time while doing so.. Remember when Drudge posted my "Bush is Not a Nazi, so Stop Saying that.." Flash, claiming that *I* was one of the entries that mixed Hitler with Bush in the MoveOn contest, and when I got on Scarborough that next night I was just waiting for him to quote Drudge so I could SLAM them both with, "That Flash work was created over TWO years ago, and never entered in the MoveOn contest.."

When you get in their faces and tell the truth, they fold up like lawnchairs :) and I LOVE doing that..nothing says Censorship like Scarborough or O'Reilly threatening to turn off your michrophone, eh?

I thank you and all my friends here on the DU for supporting Takebackthemedia.com all these years - ready for another Party, the last one I attended was in Boston where I got to hang with a LOT of DUrs, including Skinner, Elad, and EarlG, whom I've invited to come over to Hawaii and hold a DU party HERE - EarlG can bring the Bass guitar and we can get a DU BAND happening at least for a day :)

Let me know what you think of the film, it will whiz by, tons of info, but plenty of humor as well to keep it fresh, or "crisp" as Bush puts it :) I wrote all the music for it too, as well as the "Secret Agent Plame" cover song for the credits, which was linked on Editor & Publisher the other day, thanks to MaDem for pointing that out - if it wasn't for DU'rs I wouldn't know about half of the publications that talk about what we do, LA Times OP ED, National Review, etc, etc..

You're the greatest - don't forget to give H2OMan his Props for making the call on Hannah over a YEAR ago - when some DU'rs were still using their training wheels here :)

We should start an "old timers" club here so we can talk about them good old days here..

Peace!
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enigmatic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-05 11:58 PM
Response to Original message
83. I love both Raw Story and H20 Man
And I'm glad we have both on the side of truth.

Period.
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #83
96. ...and I love "Radio Enigma!"
:)
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symbolman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 03:52 AM
Response to Original message
86. Damnit :)
my thread honoring H2oMan got highjacked.. guess it's par for the course..

Sorry H2OMan, you know I did this for you and to get the word out, regardless of why someone else says Why, not true. Weird, actually..

A TAKEBACKTHEMEDIA.COM SCOOP: THE SUN WILL RISE TOMORROW.

I WILL be Vindicated :) There will be PROOF on the Weather Channel, but don't go there yet, wait until I've given you a chance to buy this lovely BUICK LASABRE..

That's right FOLKS, it's a NEW CAR!!

and then you can PUNCH THE MONKEY in this Banner, Take an IQ test HERE, wait, YOU'VE WON AN IPOD, WE NEED YOUR input in this Most Important Poll..

:)
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slor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 07:29 AM
Response to Original message
89. Thanks for posting n/t
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FizzFuzz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 09:33 AM
Response to Original message
90. props to a guy who is outstanding in the field!
Moo!


Haha, oy, ok sorry, that was another one of my assinine jokes. I'm powerless over shtick....

But YAY for H2OMan! :applause:

Cool! :D :D :D We Love You!! :loveya:
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jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 09:48 AM
Response to Original message
92. Raw Story, H2OMan etc. are ALL good
Edited on Wed Oct-19-05 09:48 AM by jpak
But a good old-fashioned DU GD Catfight is even better...raooowwww!!!!

Pass that popcorn!!!!!

:popcorn:

:evilgrin:
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