More Grist for the TreasonGate Rumor Mill

[springhill]

From Buzzflash:

More Grist for the TreasonGate Rumor Mill

A BUZZFLASH NEWS ANALYSIS

Note: This is an e-mail circulating around Capitol Hill that was forwarded to us by a source wishing to remain anonymous (no, not Scooter Libby, for God's sake). We can only offer it up as rumor and speculation, but it certainly is interesting rumor and speculation at that! Much of it is consistent with other corroborating leaks, except for two bombshell points: that Colin Powell spilled the beans on Cheney, and that Cheney's lawyer is negotiating with the U.S.

http://www.buzzflash.com/analysis/05/10/ana05032.html

[helderheid]

1. yeeehawer!

[Citizen Jane]

2. Whoa! Speechless.

trying not to get hopes up....

[Marnieworld]

3. Please let this be true

If Colin Powell is fighting them it's a big deal, the biggest deal. Perhaps he is trying to save his soul because of the blood on his hands, the blood of thousands, from his presentation to the U.N. We can only hope that this is true.

I am losing my mind in anticipation but I am comforted that the criminals involved are being tortured further from the wait.

[helderheid]

8. After watching him fight the person on TV to not cut the feed when

a question was asked that could look bad for the administration, I thought perhaps his guilt was getting to him - PLEASE let it be true.

[WiseButAngrySara]

30. Funny that it was Russert, huh? Russert is supposedly being blamed

as the initial leaker by Rove and/or Libby....

[Im with Rosey]

53. As much as I can't stand Colin

perhaps the idea of militarybeing involved in torture is something that as a a military man himself, he can't tolerate. I think this is one way of his guilt(blood on his hands) is manifesting itself.

[berni_mccoy]

4. WHOA!

UNBELIEVABLE!

[FreedomAngel82]

10. I heard this on Stephanie Miller's show this morning

:shrug: I still don't trust Powell personally because he was very much involved in everything and he went along with the UN nonsense and he could've stopped it. If he is doing this it's only because he doesn't want to go to jail. Remember Mai Lai and him.

[Marie26]

34. I think Powell's the "good guy" in this fiasco

Yes, he did the UN presentation, but he was given the same intelligence that duped the Congress. And he actually made an effort to sort out the glaringly inaccurate claims(I remember a CNN program about this that said Powell complained bitterly about the "messy intelligence" he was getting.) And he probably had to fight very hard even to present the case to the UN at all - Bush & co. just wanted to ignore the UN completely. He really tried to give this administration some creditability - and failed.

[Garbo 2004]

45. If Powell was a "good guy" what was he doing being a part of this gang?

He's not stupid, he knew who they were and what they do.

He's like the attorney for the mob who represents his clients as "respectable businessmen" and attempts to give them an air of legitimacy, but knows quite well the nature of the guys he represents. Powell was a front man for this gang and he knew it. Resignation and having no part in their scams would have been the honorable path, if he really was a man of principle and integrity.

Whatever testimony Powell (and leaks to the press) provided were to protect himself. It's clear in the media anyway that for a while "sources" were trying to shift attention to him in the Plame thing when news of the State Dept memo leaked out. Shortly thereafter a "former senior administration official" pointed the finger right back at them, asserting that the memo had been passed around at the front of AF 1 where the biggies hung out.

Powell's speech to the UN was instrumental in selling this war to the American public. It was PR. They were going to war regardless what the UN did or didn't do. Think Powell was completely unaware of that?

[Peace Patriot]

48. They didn't sell the war to the American people. Or, rather, the American

people didn't buy it. 58% of the American people opposed the Iraq war before the invasion. Across the board in all polls. Feb. '03. 58%!

That number dipped only once, during the weeks of the invasion with U.S. troops at max risk, then went right back up to nearly 60%, where it stayed throughout the 'election.'

Perceptions. Illusions. Brainwashing that you are the minority (while, in truth, you are part of a great progressive majority). That's what the war profiteering corporate news monopolies are into--a lapdog news scene that it takes little talent to play to (Rove is way overrated as a P.R. man, in my view).

Read the issue polls! You will be amazed! 60% to 70% of the American people oppose every major Bush policy, foreign and domestic, and have for at least two years.

-------

"...instrumental in selling this war to the American public."

[Garbo 2004]

50. But there were folks who indeed were swayed by Powell's presentation.

And it was PR directed more at the American public than the other nations who already weren't buying what Powell was selling. It was theater.

The idea that Powell is a "good guy" has been around for a long time and persists today despite his complicity with crooks and liars. Great PR job. Powell was Chairman of Joint Chiefs of Staff while Cheney was Secty of Defense. And was involved in Iran Contra. He's no innocent.

[The Stranger]

56. You need to focus on Wolfowitz, Perle, Cheney, Libby, Feith and others

that seem to have been forgotten in this fiasco, but are the ones with real blood on their hands.

[Garbo 2004]

65. Forgotten? By whom? They were central. But Powell was not merely a

bystander. Powell may have quibbled about the details but not the outcome. He mentioned exploring options for regime change in Iraq in Feb 2002 testimony before a Senate budget committee, subsequent to Bush's "axis of evil" State of the Union speech the month before. That spring Powell's State Dept. created the Future of Iraq Project for a post-Saddam Iraq. The removal of Saddam wasn't in doubt. Planning was already underway in State as well as the Pentagon.

[The Stranger]

55. Powell was doing what a soldier does -- obeying orders.

Even the briefest review of the history of this whole fiasco can leave one with nothing but the conclusion that he was fighting the Neocons while trying to stay in the game.

[Catrina]

57. Good soldiers do not obey illegal orders

Had Colin Powell and George Tenet simply resigned, rather than go along with what they both knew was a lie which would kill untold numbers of innocent people as well as their own troops, this war might not have happened.

I believe that Colin Powell and Tenet, know this. Had just one of them resigned, the other might have found the courage to do so.

Pablo Paredes was able to persuade a judge that he should not be considered AWOL when he refuse to go to Iraq, because he based his defense on the fact that the war itself was illegal, and as a member of the armed forces, he was required to refuse to obey illegal orders. If a twenty-something guy had the courage to do that, rather than 'stay in the game' (war is no game, imo) then so should Colin Powell and George Tenet, imo.

They had a conscience, which makes them more responsible. The vile, evil men they were dealing with, have no conscience, imo they are sociopaths.

If both Tenet and Colin Powell and maybe Armitage are now helping to bring down this evil administration (which has been rumored) they may be able to assuage some of the guilt they must feel for allowing themselves to get up in the glory of power. I hope they are now doing the right thing. Better late than never, and they may save untold numbers of lives, as the neocons are intent on invading other countries unless someone stops them.

[The Stranger]

58. Compared to Wolfowitz, Perle, Cheney, Feith, and Libby,

Powell is squeaky clean. At the very, very worst, he did not resign. He may have thought he would be more effective not resigning. But he never supported the illegal war.

[Garbo 2004]

63. Secty of State is not a soldier, not a draftee. Powell served voluntarily

and carried water for the cabal. "Obeying orders" is not an excuse. (US helped established that at Nuremberg, as I recall. That was where even "nice guy" Albert Speer was sentenced to prison for war crimes.) As a political appointee, not a soldier, Powell had a choice whether or not to continue to serve and further the Administration's goals.

And there was no fight to fight when the Administration had already decided by the end of 2001 to use 9-11 and the "war on terrorism" to move against Iraq. The outcome wasn't in question. As a member of the NSC Powell knew that. State Dept was working on plans for post-Saddam Iraq by early 2002. Publicly the only thing left to do was the PR work, finding rationales and selling Bush's war.

[emulatorloo]

5. hasn't this been debunked already -- in that Bush and Cheney dont travel

together . . . so that the story doesn't make sense.

[FreedomAngel82]

18. He was with them wasn't he?

So they could've faxed stuff and talked on the phone. Remember Fitzgerald got the phone recordings. :shrug: But he did go on that trip didn't he? He's the one who had the memo, right?

[MidwestTransplant]

20. Unfortunatley you make a good point

[Jack from Charlotte]

26. Yes. Jane Hamsher at Firedoglake.com the very best site on ....

Treasongate on the web..... has poo pooed this e-mail.

Go to Firedoglake.com and read their stuff. Also, the comments are usually top notch.

[Marie26]

36. You're right

Also, Ass. State Dept. official Wilkerson recently gave a blistering speech against the Bush administration. But he also said that Powell was "still loyal" and didn't want him to speak out on this topic. Yet, this "loyal" man blabbed all about the case to John McCain, while other people were present? That doesn't really fit with his personality.

[meg]

62. More debunking at billmon

There's a very detailed but almost certainly very fake e-mail making the rounds in Left Blogstan, purporting to reveal Colin Powell's behind-the-scenes cooperation with the Fitzgerald investigation. Crooks and Liars has linked to a blog that posted it. Sean-Paul Kelly at The Agonist also has posted it. Jeralyn Merritt at Talk Left says she got a copy, too.

Scroll down to Colin Blow
link

[ramblin_dave]

6. Disinfo maybe?

"during the meeting, powell recounted to the senator that he had traveled on air force one with bush and cheney, and brought to their attention a classified memorandum about the issue of whether there was indeed a transaction inolving niger and yellow cake uranium. "

Bush and Cheney never travel together on the same plane.

[tulsakatz]

28. I don't know if they were both on the same plane but.........

......I saw an article in the NY Times about 6 months ago that said the focus of this investigation is that memo!!

So this makes a lot of sense to me.......

[Neil Lisst]

7. Yummy GRIST for the Mill!!

nice

[rzemanfl]

9. You know what bothers me about this is the complete absence

of capital letters. I can see not bothering with caps in an e-mail, but anyone who has any keyboarding experience is going to hit the shift key once in a while out of habit. It's like this was typed and then change case was run on it to make it look like a legitmate e-mail message.

On edit, except for (R-AZ) and (R-SC)????

[WilliamPitt]

14. Not true

I get three hundred emails a day, and most of the time I lament the fact that so many people type in all lowercase. A lawyer friend of mine who types all day does the same thing.

[Czolgosz]

41. Some lawyers email in lower case as an alternative to dictating (case does

not matter because a secretary will be formatting the letter or document).

[JDPriestly]

43. Too many typos! Everyone makes a couple once in a while,

but that memo is full of grammatical errors and typos. No one would circulate a memo that full of mistakes. The memo story is not believable. It is amateurish to say the least.

Granted, the person who wrote the memo has followed the Plame story and drew logical conclusions. He or she, however, is careless in presenting the information. The "sources" are summarized at the beginning to give the piece an air of reliability, but other than Powell and McCain, the "memo" is sourced like a Judy Miller story -- by thin air. I think this "memo" is some blogger's best guess at what is going on. It's a good guess, but I do not believe that Cheney was on the plane as described. The author could be just a blogger, but the memo could also be disinformation from some party interested in the outcome of the investigation or trying to add to the confusion by tossing in information hoping that the discrediting of the information will distract from the real story -- White House outing of a CIA agent. I reserve my opinion except to say the "memo" is not well supported or edited. The person who wrote it should have the courage and integrity to come forward and admit authorship.

[BuyingThyme]

64. This email may be a pile of shit, but it explains EVERYTHING

perfectly.

[al bupp]

11. Looks like they're setting up Cheney & Co to take the fall /nt

[WilliamPitt]

12. It's Powell

I knew it.

[Burried News]

19. Old soldiers never die and sometimes they don't fade away.

Put they can still sink the jump shot when they have to (learned in the Goethals Gym at CCNY).

[Carni]

39. So from your research you think this has legs?

I'm wondering...does everyone remember those accounts of how pissed off Powell was before he appeared before the UN? He was reported to be yelling "I'm not reading this bullshit" or something to that effect. You know maybe this is possible, maybe he turned?

[Burried News]

13. Bolton - the man the Prez wanted for UN Ambassador - to be

indicted.
Let the Vorpal Sword go snicker snack and Catapult his head over the wall.

[radwriter0555]

15. Cheney will resign for "health reasons" after he goes to the hospital

over the weekend.

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Garbo 2004]

35. Because the spam email is going around and is as "sensitive" as the one

that said Bill Gates will give you $5 for each copy you forward.

Buzzflash should know better than to post this crap. A quick trip to Google debunks it. As would reading the actual news articles they post on their site.

[acmavm]

17. I'll believe it when it happens. When the papers are filed with the court,

fine. But until then I refuse to get my hopes up.

[meg]

21. How can cheney and snippy be on the same plane?

during the meeting, powell recounted to the senator that he had traveled on air force one with bush and cheney,

That doesn't sound like proper procedure to me. I'm having trouble believing the authenticity of this email.

[Cults4Bush]

22. Me neither... I thought protocal dictated they never be on the same

plane in the air.

????Dis-Info????

[babsbunny]

25. Okay, does this mean the Prez is in trouble too??

Oh please!!!!

[Trish1168]

32. maybe he meant the president and vice-president, since they are the same

person. Who thinks Bush is really in charge?

[ChairmanAgnostic]

23. And now, watch for another tunnel or bridge Terra Alert!

with stuff like this coming out, don't you think it is about time for their patented fake alert? As KO noted, and as we saw that last two weeks, when bad news comes out, this admin. manages to raise a threat level. NYNY, then Baltimore. What is next? San Fran's Golden Gate?

[robbedvoter]

24. If Cheney fails to take at least Rove down with him, I'll be mad!

Besides, I am one of those people skeptical of Colon doing anything brave or honest.

[UTUSN]

27. Hell for Shrub and ROVE: McCAIN as Veep

Oh, how the world turns. But the dude (McCAIN) has NO pride:

[Garbo 2004]

29. Previously debunked. First, Cheney didn't go to Africa, wasn't on AF 1

with Powell and the memo. The memo didn't have the name "Plame" even in the attached notes regarding the CIA 2002 meeting/Wilson trip since "Wilson" was her legal name which she had used for years. The memo, as widely reported,did not identify Valerie Wilson as a "covert agent." It also was reported that other high level types who were on Air Force One likely had access to and had seen or were aware of the memo and its contents. Supposedly Ari saw it, among others, and Powell testified to that. And just for giggles, Condi also was on board no doubt practicing her "no one could have imagined" line. (Rove and Libby weren't on AF 1 and did not go on the trip.)

But that trip was in July 2003, after Wilson's op ed. If Wilson's sources were right and WHIG's decided to do a "work up" on him in March, no doubt they'd have info long before July. The State Dept memo on Air Force One during Bush's Africa trip originally was written in June, compiling info State previously had on the Niger claims and why they were considered by State to be bunk (the same conclusion reached by Wilson, by the way).

It appears that info regarding Wilson was in the pipeline for dissemination at least weeks before Wilson's July 6 op ed. (They knew he'd been a source for sure for Kristof's May article and earlier stuff: Wilson appeared on CNN in March and rattled the WH's cage on the Niger claim.) And Libby met with Miller in June.

[Marie26]

37. This is a nitpicky question, but

When was she listed as "Valerie Plame?" Did either the State Dept. memo or the later Air Force One memo to Powell list her under this name?

[Garbo 2004]

47. Valerie Wilson. That's the name she'd used personally & professionally

since her 1998 marriage to Joseph Wilson.

Oh, that's why when Powell said on Larry King that "Valerie Plame" was not in the memo he had, he was accurate but not completely candid since her name "Valerie Wilson" did appear, reportedly in an attachment to the memo.

[Marie26]

59. I think this is significant

If she was known to Adminstration officials as "Valerie Wilson," why did both Judith Miller & Robert Novak list her as "Valerie Plame"? This suggests to me that they had a source outside the officials who received that June memo. Someone who knew her before 1998.

Novak has said some contradictory things. First, he said "no one at the White House called me to leak this name". This is true - according to Air Force One records, HE called Ari Fleisher that day. This suggests Novak already had the information from another source, then called Fleischer (or Hadley) to confirm. And then Rove confirmed. 2 adminstration confirmations - but neither is the original source. My pet theory is that Judith Miller called Novak to leak the name; she's now testified she "may have" talked about Plame with other people prior to July 12. But if so, she didn't come alone.

Novak said that Bush officials mentioned that Wilson's wife worked for the CIA in passing; and that Plame's maiden name could be looked up in any "Who's Who" once you knew she was Joe Wilson's wife. But why bother? Why not use the name adminstration officials had - "Valerie Wilson"? Remember Novak's temper tantrum on the set of CNN? I don't think he was mad, I think he was scared. Sitting there on the table was an accusing copy of "Who's Who in America." He didn't get her name from "Who's Who" - he got it from his third source. Finally, one other interesting Novak quote - he said "They gave me THE NAME." Who? Not administration officials; Novak said they just referred to her as "Wilson's wife." The third source, unattributed in his article, gave him the name of "Valerie Plame" & the information that she's a CIA operative. Admin. officials then confirmed she suggested Wilson for the trip. This third source is so hidden he doesn't even want to admit they EXIST. And "they" are 2 or more people who offered the name.

Why was this name so hot to handle that Judith Miller wrote it as "Valerie Flame"? In her story to NY Times, she is sure to say that she wrote it as FLAME, while Novak wrote PLAME. :eyes: Big difference. She's trying to distance herself. They're all trying to distance themselves from this name - because it points not to Administration officials but some other, perhaps sketchier, source. Personally, I think Miller got the name from Isreali agents, but you can be pretty sure the source was very undercover & someone they would NOT want to admit to talking to. From "Valerie Plame" to "Valerie Wilson" - very little difference, but it points to entirely different sources.

[Peace Patriot]

44. And didn't that memo get cobbled together in June--I'm recalling...

...something I read. Memo ordered up, cobbled together quickly. Some staffer did it on orders (at State?, for Powell). I'm thinking maybe Powell was covering his ass, back then. Plame was already a target, way back when the Niger forgeries were created (2001, at the Rome confab), and Powell maybe got this memo together and handed it to Bush/Cheney IN ORDER TO implicate them. (Note: The email writer may just have gotten his facts a little mixed up--is reporting what others said--didn't distinguish between Bush and Cheney, or who would be on AF-1, or left out a step--say, Powell faxing it to Cheney...).

My pet theory: I think what they had just found out, on AF-1 on July 7, 2003, from Tony Blair, is that their dirty scheme to plant WMDs in Iraq, to be "found" by Judith Miller, had been foiled by Plame and/or her network, and David Kelly knew about it. Plame was outed a week later--in a full court press of Bushites, trying to find somebody to publish it, with calls to at least SIX reporters (journalist witnesses to treason), in a PANIC of activity, putting many top Bushites at high risk. Four days later, Kelly was found dead, under highly suspicious circumstances. His office and computers were searched. Four days after that (July 22), Brewster Jennings (the entire network) was outed (also by Novak), disabling all projects and putting covert agents/contacts at great risk of death (and, also, compounding the top Bushites' risk of treason charges).

There is a Hutton report item about Blair being informed on July 7 (after Kelly was interrogated) that Kelly (who had been whistleblowing to the BBC) "could say some uncomfortable things" (COULD say, not HAD said). There is also the connective tissue of Judith Miller, to whom Kelly sent his last email, the day he died, warning of the "many dark actors playing games."

Part one of this theory is that the Niger forgeries, and the placement of the Niger allegation into Bush's SOTU speech, were a scheme to draw out the CIA and get them to commit publicly to no-nukes-in-Iraq position, then slam and discredit them when the planted nukes were "found" by Miller (who had been well set up to do so, with a special "embed" contract signed by Rumsfeld; with the public also well-primed for it). Cheney prompted the CIA to undertake a Niger mission, knowing that the docs were forgeries and that it was a wild goose chase. (--just as the "hunt" for WMDs in Iraq, that they all knew were not there, was also bogus.)

How would Powell fit into this picture? The Niger allegation is the one item he left out of his UN speech, supposedly because it had been discredited. He was smelling a rat. Hard to know if he knew, suspected or participated in this grand hoax. But whatever his complicity, he was smart enough to know that something was up in the Bushite skulduggering world. And he covered his ass with the Plame memo (was making damned sure B/C knew who she was, and that he could swear to it). Or, maybe, was trying to protect Plame? (--surely they won't go after her if they know I know she's a NOC). Or...?

Not sure. I figured he was in on it, because he circulated the memo. But now, two things occur to me: 1) B/C may have circulated it, not Powell (though he was on the plane and should have known--but maybe he expected them to circulate it, and was taking names). And 2) Plame's NOC status, and her specialty, WMDs, was known to at least some of these perps long before June 2003 (when the memo was written).

[Peace Patriot]

46. Note: Something else happened in June 2003 at around the same time.

Someone outed David Kelly to his bosses, which started the whole chain of events that led to his death. That happened June 30 or so. (Also, Libby met with Miller--June 23.)

Kelly had been whistleblowing anonymously to the BBC (late May), and seemed rather taken aback when he heard from a friend (never identified--but possibly connected with RUSI, Royal United Services Institute), that his bosses had found out, or strongly suspected, that it was him. (Thence to his letter to them, saying that he might be the BBC source, his interrogation at a "safe house," threats of prosecution and all the rest.)

[Marie26]

60. And of course his last email was to..... Judith Miller n/t

You wouldn't believe it if someone tried to put this in a movie. Too contrived, too many coincidences.

[garthranzz]

31. History repeats itself?!

First Agnew, then Nixon.
First Cheney, then Bush.

[progressoid]

33. HUGE grain of salt with this.

[MN ChimpH8R]

38. Powell was on Larry King on Monday night

I only saw a few minutes of it, but he looked and sounded totally relaxed and composed. Like he'd had a big weight taken off of his shoulders. I think his demeanor and the OP are connected.

I do not forgive him for his complicity in this mess, but if true, this salvages some of his integrity. I had a lot of respect for him before he became part of the Chimp's cabinet. If this is true, he is ultimately more good than bad.

[tex-wyo-dem]

40. I've always felt that at his core Powell is a decent person...

His failing was being the "good soldier" to his commander and chief and not the American people.

Treason is treason.

[Peace Patriot]

49. He is, in any case, manuevering politically. I think the Wilkerson speech

seeks to rehabilitate Powell, partly by defaming Rice as a "toady," while Powell was a "good soldier." Too bad they ignored all his advice. Think like a Republican, for a moment. While you understand toadyism--it's your middle name--a toady is not a leader, and cannot accomplish your goals, while a "good soldier" will protect your enormous investment in Bush junta tax cuts and war looting, won't rock the boat, but will manage your investments better than a yes-woman.

He's angling for VP--and hence to a Diebold "selection" in '08. A more efficient war in the middle east (already in progress on the Syrian/Iraq border with incursions into Syria and Syrian soldiers getting killed. (--started during Katrina.) While Wilkerson excoriciates them, he's taking the high road, to look more presidential and healing. And the WH and its puppetmasters are in such disarray, they might just go for it--even if he has testified against Cheney. They're done with Cheney anyway, and, if Libby's cryptography to Miller can be beleived--or understood--the deal's already been worked out for Libby to take the "fall," probably for Cheney to resign and go to Halliburton Heaven, when he is named as an unindicted co-conspirator, and the war goes on. And she should "come back to work--and life" in order to cover that grand bloodletting, toppling of Syria, nuking of Iran, and whatall the "deeply rooted aspens" may have in store for us.

One can hope that the people will rise up and throw Diebold and ES&S election theft machines into 'Boston Harbor' in the meantime, and get our country back. If we don't, I think we can expect an expanded war, a Draft, and we're never going to get any of our money back from these master thieves.

[indepat]

42. If Colin spilled the beans on Cheney, it is too little too late: all who

love their country more that their ideology, partisan politics, or the man will spill all the beans about everything they know that ain't kosher.

[Emit]

51. Sadly, this has been debunked by others

See this thread from last night:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=5108212&mesg_id=5108212

[lovuian]

52. John McCain = Gerald Ford and we know what happen to him!!!

Be careful John!!!

You can't let the criminal pick the president and vice president!!!

I think Gore won and the people voted for him and give him the Presidency!!! These crooks stole it from him!!!

[newscott]

61. I'm pretty sure he'll say no thanks.

[Shine]

54. Holy shit! Here we go....

:popcorn: