Help Answer a Wingnut about PLAME's "already out"

[UTUSN]

The local radio talkshow wingnut almost daily says that outing PLAME is not important because she was known (already out) as a CIA employee, that apparently anybody-who-was-anybody in D.C. already knew she was a CIA employee (as opposed to "operative"). And his corollary to this is that the law refers only to agents outside the country.

I have e-mailed him a few times saying that she was the head of a covert "company" of 200 CIA employees oversees, which would address both of his points, that not only she but 200 others overseas were also outed. But he responds with his original argument that she was already OUT, so nothing like this matters.

PLAMEgate is far beyond the narrow "outing" law into other areas, but I want to shut him up (with a loofah) on his particular point.

[ret5hd]

1. Tell 'im to send that info to rove's lawyers...

and see just how well that works out for 'em!

[Jack from Charlotte]

18. Rigfht. Like Fitz hasn't heard that BS already.....*

[chalky]

2. "Out" according to whom? Who are his sources?

And tell him Rush, Sean and Bill don't count.

[Mythsaje]

3. Apparently Fitz feels differently

as did the Grand Jury.

Tell him to suck it up.

[troubleinwinter]

6. As did the CIA, in requesting the investigation. Oh, and the AG.

[Mythsaje]

9. Simple as that...n/t

[electropop]

4. They started the outing even before Wilson's article

because they knew it was coming. The head start was part of the plan to try to make it appear ambiguous. It was not.

[mzmolly]

5. Outted by whom?

That is the question. To say that she was out and they did not out her is a lie. We'll find that out in a week or two.

[crispini]

7. It's not up to HIM, or RUSH, or KARL ROVE, or ANYBODY

EXCEPT THE CIA to decide who is a covert operative and who is not.

If the CIA says she's a NOC, she's a NOC.

Send him this:
http://www.stratfor.com/products/premium/weekly.php

But, you know, if he's on the radio, who the hell cares, he won't listen to a thing you say anyway, if he did he'd be out of a job.

[UTUSN]

16. I'll Be Sending This Whole Thread, But STRATFOR Is His Fave

so it would be a real smackdown to use his own STRATFOR against him. But excuse my denseness, I don't get what the link is saying on the outing of agents?

[crispini]

20. Damn!

It looks like the article has scrolled off to be Premium.

Here's the original thread with an excerpt in the OP. There are several article snips in the thread as well.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5104184

I *think* that this is the original article, but it's Premimum now:
http://www.stratfor.com/products/premium/read_article.php?id=257167

[izzybeans]

8. Answer: No nt

[Justitia]

10. HAHA - this shit is getting FUNNY. Ignore him, we got the FACTS.

I'm smiling like a CHESHIRE CAT.

[stepnw1f]

11. I Can't Argue with Lies

That's what I'd say to him.

[nookiemonster]

12. They will avoid mentioning "Brewster Jennings".

Count on it. It's their Achille's heel and they know it.

Plame is just one facet of the investigation.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

13. It's amazing that he knows this...

If it were true you'd be hearing Bush, Cheney, Rove and Libby screaming it from the roof of the WH.

Can't he even keep up, that was so last summer's rumor. :eyes:

Tell him to prepare for a big surprise and that you'll be praying for him to be strong and handle it like an adult. :P

[StClone]

14. Ask this guy

To name another CIA operative. Can't do it and you know why FREEP? It's because they would be a secret operative if a FREEP knew the agent's name.

[snippy]

15. I ususally say something like this

If Bush and his followers are correct that Plame was not covert, how do they explain the following facts?

1. After conducting its own investigation of the leaks, the CIA formally requested that the Justice Department begin a criminal investigation;

2. After the Justice Department investigation had begun gathering evidence, Attorney General Ashcroft found it neccessary to recuse himself;

3. After Ashcroft's recusal, the Justice Department felt that it was neccessary to appoint a special prosecutor;

4. The special prosecutor's investigation has gone on for many, many months;

5. Various media organizations filed briefs in the Cooper/Miller case arguing that no crime could have been committed since Plame was not covert, but neither the District Court nor the Court of Appeals accepted that argument; and

6. Judge Tatel's concurring opinion in the Court of Appeals decision in the Cooper/Miller case discussed:

a. "the irresponsible (and quite possibly illegal) nature of the leaks at issue"

b. "the leaked information—Plame’s covert status—lacked significant news value."

c. "criminal leaks,"

d. "the crime,"

e. "the plot against Wilson,"

f. the leak at issue being "harmful to national security," and

g. identifying the leakers being "essential to remedying a serious breach of public trust."

These comments by Judge Tatel followed his analysis of the evidence filed by Fitzgerald under seal.

It seems odd that no one in the CIA, the Justice Department, the Attorney General's office, the special prosecutor's office, the District Court overseeing the grand jury, or the Court of Appeals would bother to check to see whether the status of Valerie Plame fell within the statute. It must be "hard work" to check something like that.

It is an indication of how weak the republican case is that they focus on such a flawed argument in defense of Bush and his criminal minions. After all, arguing that no crime was committed because Plame was not covert is a tacit admission that the leaks occurred and that those accused of leaking were responsible. Evidently, to Bush and his followers, restoring honor and dignity to the White House means parsing criminal statutes and using legal loopholes in an attempt to avoid indictments.

[NewJeffCT]

19. excellent post, good points

especially since saying that no crime was committed because she was already outed is admitting that the leak occurred.

[goodboy]

17. ask them why the memo sent to air force 1 was marked `secret``