I just finished watching the four-DVD set, 500 Nations.

[Ladyhawk]

There is nothing--absolutely nothing--this country could do to make it up to Native Americans. I was utterly appalled, both at what happened and the lies I was fed in my American history books.

Until a couple of years ago, I didn't know that Christopher Columbus was largely responsible for the complete genocide of the native peoples of Hispaniola. The history books conveniently left out that little detail. Most of the people who get upset when folks talk about doing away with Columbus Day don't know what a total genocidal prick the guy was.

Between the Spanish and the British (and later the United States), white people pretty much destroyed the native peoples. I'm surprised there are any left who still remember their languages and cultures.

I have a little bit of Cherokee blood. Sometimes I wonder how my great grandmother must have felt, marrying into a white family. I wonder if she was a product of one of those "Indian Assimilation" schools. Did she know her language? Did she know her customs? Did she know her culture?

Every native nation was backstabbed in one way or another, but the stories of the Cherokee, the southern Cheyenne (under Black Kettle and White Antelope), the Iroquois, the Shumash and the Nez Perce seem to haunt me the most. I was also especially disgusted by the actions at Wounded Knee against the plains tribes trying to resurrect their culture.

The story of the native peoples should be a compulsory part of the American history. We can't truly understand America without understanding both the bad and the good. America was built on genocide and slavery. Those that deny this aren't getting the full picture.

-Tsi-wo-di A-da

[HysteryDiagnosis]

1. Genocide and slavery..... imagine that. Then there is the golden

rule.... those with the gold, rule. Welcome to the land of democracy, a place rife with terminal hypocrisy, we point and jeer at third world nations, while our own situation's an abomination. Pity.

[danalytical]

2. Watched it last winter

I know what you mean. I was appalled at the birth of our nation. It was so devestating to see the reality of who we are and how we got here. And especially, what happenned to those that were here before us. Shouldn't there be indian faces all around us today? They didn't disappear on their own

[Ladyhawk]

6. I tried to talk with my fundy, right-wing mother about this documentary.

And she said, "Yes, but there are million of Indians around today."

Okay. How many are there? How many were there in pre-Colombian times and how does that compare to today on a per-capita basis? How many individuals were killed in massacres? How many were worked to death as slaves? How many are still able to live the way they lived before white people came and changed their lives forever?

Another heartrending scene for me was the purposeful slaughter of the buffalo. It was American policy to slaughter these creatures to erase the horse culture embraced by the plains Indians: the Sioux, the Kiowa, Crow, the Comanche, the Cheyenne, the Blackfeet, the Pawnee, etc. That culture can never come back.

[FreedomAngel82]

35. Sadly people still don't believe it

:( Some still think Columbus "found" this land and everything. *sigh*

[Angry Girl]

3. You said it, Binky: America was built on genocide and slavery.

And most of the people who came over here to mess with everything were rejects from other nations: criminals, deviants, undesirables....

[jwirr]

17. Or refugees from starvation, conscription into the army.

Not all generations were involved in this kind of greed and destruction. Many of them immigrated long after it was too late to do anything about it. However, I would say as the descendant of one of those later arrivals that we are guilty of ignorance and in that we are as much the enemy of native peoples as were those who came before.

[NorCalDem]

4. That's why I can't understand the

"this is Amurika, we don't torture people" line of BS. We have ALWAYS tortured, raped, maimed, killed, stolen, and lied. We as Americans tend to think that our slate is cleaner than most, when the only reason for it being so clean is because our fore fathers had really good erasers!

[Sparkman]

11. you'd think adults would get accurate history lessons, kids can't handle

the truth and remain loyal to this oligarchy of corporate capital.
Marxism turned into state dominated oppressors, and U.S. capitalism has perfected the same with it's state sponsored and licensed corporations that really call the shots, literally. imo.

[Roland99]

5. Trail of Tears and Nez Perce stories get to me everytime.

[Ladyhawk]

9. Yeah. :(

I don't understand why the US couldn't just let the Nez Perce GO. They weren't hurting anyone. :(

The Cherokee got it twice. They had to move across the Mississippi, then had to give up their new land, too. Shameful.

I make dreamcatchers, mandelas, walking-sticks, jewelry, etc., with naturally-moulted parrot feathers. The native dress of many of the native nations seems very attractive to me. They made and decorated their own clothing. It all meant something personal to them. My jewelry means something personal to me:



I incorporate the feathers from my own parrot into many designs. :) I took this pic yesterday. :) And yes, native styles have influenced my own jewelry preferences.

When the white men came with their "assimilation" schools, the native peoples had to give up their beautiful hair styles and native clothing. Long hair was seen as a sin, so the beautiful braids and long hair of the boys was cut off, depriving them of their identity.


Many of the native peoples were freer and gentler than western society. I can't remember which tribe it was now, but the father of a boy who was whipped came and consulted with the people at the Indian assimilation school, saying that his people did not hit children.

Did not hit children.

How sad that we have lost this culture.

[FreedomAngel82]

36. Same here

I remember when I was younger that picture of the Trail of Tears seemed to haunt me everywhere and every grade. It's so sad and heartbreaking. :cry: Sometimes it makes me feel so dirty and shameful. :cry:

[Sparkman]

7. Pre-historic man was barbaric, and modern man was, and so are we.

The difference is that the U.S. is built on the notion that we are civilized and created a "democracy", for the purpose of escaping aristocracies of Europe. But the slavery, genocide and indemic lying that enabled the founding of this nation leaves little extrapolation to explain the corporate capitalism's predation of any countries that can't threaten back, and threaten us with nuclear weapons. So those who would deny our reasons for Iraq and the 50 odd other wars are for selfish greed and imperialism are so ignorant and stupid of the U.S. history as to be laughable. imo.

[Sparkman]

8. Howard Zinn's "A Peoples' History of the United States" is the bible now.

If you haven't read it, you must for the sake of liberal and progressive thinkers everywhere. It's rare and it's documented and it's very reader friendly. Fascists will find it unreadable. imo

[Ladyhawk]

16. In the back of my mind, it's been on my "must read" list.

My mind was filled with lies during my formative years and I'm in the process of exploring what really happened and addressing what's real and what is fantasy. Too bad we can't seem to let kids in on the truth when they're young, huh?

[Ladyhawk]

15. I have to agree. Humans need to recognize their own inherent cruelty.

Until we do, we can't address it adequately, IMHO.

I find it really interesting and instructive that the Ice Man died from an arrow wound. When I learned this, I just shook my head and said, "I am so not surprised."

[Cleita]

10. That was a great series wasn't it?

Our nation really has a lot of karma to pay back for it's past. That's why I keep wondering why so many Americans are so supportive of this Middle East genocide that Bush is leading. We just can't go on being murderous European colonists. It really has to stop.

[Ladyhawk]

13. You know, I linked our past behavior with the present, as well, Cleita.

I immediately thought our treatment of native peoples = our treatment of the Iraqis.

We were freeing the "Indians," too. :(

[rumpel]

12. ...and there was never an official apology. Every year people are starving

and freeze to death at the Pine Ridge Reservation. Katrina brought the problem of poverty to the attention of those who did not want to see. What does it take to finally bring dignity and justice to the native peoples.

[Ladyhawk]

14. I don't know what it will take. Few know about Pine Ridge.

I don't think white people can really understand what the native peoples feel. Those who clung to their cultures, those still on reservations: these people must be full of hurt and fury at what they've been forced to endure.

How can those of us on the outside ever understand?

[rumpel]

26. Many though, have no fury. Genuinely amazing people of many wisdoms.

[Broken_Hero]

18. I havne't heard of

500 Nations, i need to look into that. I'm Haida from SE Alaska, my wife is half Keetowah Band Cherokee, we both met at an all native university in Lawrence,Ks (Haskell Indian Nations University). The university was an eye opener, for both of us. Both of us were brought up in the conventional america, with the cookie cut image of history and what not, and to learn more of the truth, and not the glossy image that our govt/country wants us to believe was truly eye opening.

Haskell Indian Nations University, if i remember right, was founded in 1898, somewheres around that time. It was a boarding school, where indian children were shipped to, to become "civilized/assimilated"...the history of Haskell is very sad, and somber...if you ever want to check out the history, go to Haskell.edu, or use google or whatever search engine you desire...another school, that my grandmother, my GRANDMA not my great granma, was shipped to, assimmilated was Sheldon Jackson University, its located in Sitka, Alaska...it also has a very sad history. There are some things the USA can make it up to indians, but the govt does a half ass job just trying to keep IHS running...i hear/see a lot of people who want to "become" indian so they can get benefits, and they arent interested in their culture and that sickens me, but again, its how life goes...

[Ladyhawk]

20. 500 Nations was an excellent documentary.

It covered quite a lot of territory, both literally and culturally.

Even if the U.S. gave back a lot of the land it stole, all those people would still be dead. Many of the cultures and languages are dead. Most of the buffalo are dead. It can't be undone.

And as you say, there are many with a small amount of Indian blood that want to become Indian for the benefits. My mother is into genealogy and can't quite find the proof we need. I am actually quite interested in the culture. I want to know where my Native American ancestors came from, what they believed, etc. I wish I had some kind of real link to history, to the Trail of Tears. A first-hand account would be wonderful, but probably too much to hope for.

Probably, the culture had already been whipped out of my ancestor(s) by the time they married into white families.

Except for the native aspect of my ancestors, I've been pretty much uninterested in most of what my mother has discovered. I had relatives that fought on both sides of the Civil War. My grandmother's mother died very young of tuberculosis. I knew these things before my mother started her quest.

I wanted to know more about native ancestors, but so far I don't know much at all. :(

[Broken_Hero]

22. Its primarily

because most indian ancestors, and i say most...have an oral history, word of mouth, passed down through the generations, and not written down. That is one of the MAIN reasons why its so hard to loo up indian heritage, its hard to prove. My dad is a huge genealogy buff, and he couldn't make it past three generations on my moms side (indian side)....its hard to find documentation at all...

[Ladyhawk]

24. I never got the oral history and it's a shame.

I have a feeling that my ancestors who married into white families were among those denied their cultural heritage by "assimilation" schools. I may never know what happened to them.

[Broken_Hero]

27. Yes, its true...

they were 99% likely to have been robbed or beaten out of their culture. My nana (grandma), when she went to Sheldon Jackson in Sitka, she brought her bent wood box, her copper shield, and a few other things. She knew her language then, and the first thing they did to her was take all the things that looked "indian were indian" from her, cut her hair, but her in stockins, dress, and had their hair in pig tails...they were BEATEN for speaking their language, they were BEATEN for drawing their designs (raven, eagle, killer whale etc etc)....Assimilation is/was a nasty thing, my nana, who is 80 went through it...

Keep your hopes up, the indian community is rather small and you never know who you might bump into who will recognize your ancestors name...:) Keep the hope alive, Ladyhawk...:)

[cynatnite]

29. Hubby's family got much of their indian history both orally and written...

It took some doing, but they were able to trace back the last one hundred years or so. Some interesting and tragic stories came out of it.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

19. The horrific treatment of the Native Americans is one of those

"dysfunctional family" open secrets that haunts this country.

Until we as a nation repent of the idea that we have the right to "civilize" people who aren't like us, and until we acknowledge our sins against the Native peoples (American Indian, Inuit, Hawaiian), not just on PBS documentaries but in the mass media, that pernicious idea will continue to poison our foreign and domestic policies.

[Ladyhawk]

25. I have to agree. The people who are supporting the invasion of

Iraq are the same people who see what happened to the native peoples as an "aberration." It's an interesting phenomenon.

[cynatnite]

30. Not just that...

but the history has to be taught accurately. It's not.

The accounts of Little Big Horn is a good example. The story the tribes tell and what's taught in the classroom are completely different.

[lildreamer316]

21. Thanks for the rec.

I just found out last fall that my great grandmother was full Cherokee ;left of whatever managed to avoid the Trail of Tears from here (NC). I do not want to claim blood for any advantage, but I do want to explore that side of the family as much as I have the Irish side.I am sure I am in for quite the education...........

[cry baby]

23. I watched that on tv...I could not believe the brutality and cruelty.

It was such a great series. It should be manditory in history classes in this country.

[Ladyhawk]

28. I absolutely agree. It's just as much a part of our history as anything

else. In fact, 500 Nations flies in the face of what I was taught as a child. Columbus was not a good guy. The pilgrims bided their time and then turned on their Indian benefactors.

Most of the native peoples were enslaved and killed in the name of "christianity." It is this same blind faith that poses a threat to our freedom today. Today's fundamentalists are the heirs of this same mentality: We're right and because we're right, we have the moral obligation to make all of you bow down to our beliefs.

[knight_of_the_star]

31. Goes back further than that

Damn Constantine for buying into it and the superstitious bootlicking Romans for not calling his bullshit and every king and chief on both sides of the Rhine and the Channel for believing it would actually help them.

[RepublicanElephant]

33. if christianity was practiced by true "followers of christ", ...

...there would be none of horrors committed.

Jesus never ask his followers to commit acts of slavery and genocide. on the contrary, he preached about freedom and abundant life.

do these fundies really believe Christ would tell columbus to slap chains on women and children, or wipe-out entire civilizations?

and what's even worse, to do these things to profit from theft of their labor or land?!

[cry baby]

37. yes, bow down or we will obliterate you (metaphorically or literally),

so sayeth the fundies. *BTW, not what Jesus teaches*

[Kenergy]

32. "Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee" by Dee Brown also a good

depiction of the disgraceful treatment of the Native American people.

[FreedomAngel82]

34. It really is sad

:( As I've gotten older I've learned a lot more of course and now days Columbus Day I don't celebrate (never really did) and Thanksgiving is different to me now. I mostly use it as a rememberance day for all that happened to the Native's and pray that things can be different for them in this country. They've been treated so horribly from day one. :( I'm surprised they all don't snap and kill each one of us. Know what I mean? I get so pissed off at people who act like this land was their's from the beginning and that immigrants don't have the right to be here. We're all immigrants except for the Native's. They're the only one's who have a right to be angry. Not some redneck racists asshole. Someday I know I will have my future children remember Thanksgiving and Columbus day for the real reason's. Not cowboys vs. Indians.