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Would Bush try to plant WMD to stop Plame story?

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Ignacio Upton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 08:08 PM
Original message
Would Bush try to plant WMD to stop Plame story?
The reason behind the Plame leak has been that Bush mislead and exaggerated the case for war. I know that Saddam did not have the elaborate WMD arsenal of drones, mobile weapons labs, and drums and drums full of antrax. We also know now from David Kay and Charley Daufuer that Saddam, while he had a WMD program, could not actively start it, and was perfectly contained in 2002 and in the beginning of 2003
However, if Bush was capabable of doing so (and this is conspiracy theory terrority here) would he plant WMD in Iraq so he could say "I told you so, you guys are so stupid!" Personally, I don't think he has planted WMD or attempted to do so when we went in, because I think that Bush thought there was something there (may nuclear materials but not a real bomb or maybe he thought that by simply discovering materials that could be used for killing people that he would have convinced the people that the war was sucessful) but he used exaggerated intelligence because the public would not have bought into stories about Saddam having materials that could be used for WMD but were not being.
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mzteris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 08:09 PM
Response to Original message
1. bush would choke his own mother
kids wife dad - to "get his way".

He will stoop to anything. He's sick. Very very sick.
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HockeyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Yes, he would
but who except the sheeple would believe him now?
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SF Bay Area Dem Donating Member (394 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 08:10 PM
Response to Original message
2. It would be rough to do that now...
...it would probably cause more problems than it would solve. * problem is no one trusts him anymore. He is toast, and dog-meat politically.
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ClintonTyree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 08:11 PM
Response to Original message
4. That would stick out like a turd in a punchbowl now........
wouldn't it? Even the blivet can't be that stupid to think he could pull that off. The American public is stupid, but not THAT stupid!
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rox63 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 08:12 PM
Response to Original message
5. It wouldn't stop the Plame story
'Cause it's still illegal to out an undercover CIA agent.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 08:12 PM
Response to Original message
6. Remember the early part of the invasion
the Intelligence Company that was destroyed by freindly fire for being AHEAD of the troops?

guess what those boys were?

I will add another piece of corroborating evidence, the Lt General in charge of the division was relieved in the middle of active combat operations when they were advancing, not for bungling it... makes you wonder what they bungled huh?
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Bigmack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #6
12. I've heard some stories about a plane that crashed....
... and didn't make it into Iraq with the required WMD to be planted.

I dunno.

I do know that Dumbya lives up to his name, and all of those assholes felt/feel that they don't have to plan ahead.

They may not have cared whether there was anything there or not.
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MarsThe Cat Donating Member (978 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 08:14 PM
Response to Original message
7. Terra-ist attack on the world series.
that would certainly take plamegate off the front pages for awhile.

and that's my prediction...provided wilma doesn't return southern florida to the stone age.

Go you white sox- but i'm getting out of the city for the weekend.
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Ignacio Upton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 08:17 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. I can't see Bush pulling off a terrorist attack
or planting WMDs personally. Too many people involved and word get out and shut down Bush. However, I can see him raising the teror level again, which doesn't require a mass conspiracy to implement and sucessfully carry out.
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MarsThe Cat Donating Member (978 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. poppy smirk, on the other hand...
is an old pro.
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YDogg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #8
15. Bush really is the perfect stooge for Bin Laden.
He has pretty much assured Bin Laden's legacy will be much greater than it was destined to be. I cannot imagine Bin Laden ever imagined how perfectly Bush would walk into his trap.
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Ignacio Upton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Bush and Bin Laden are both conservatives
This War on Terrorism has really been conservative vs. conservative. Al Qaida is the Free Republic of the Muslim world.
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PSPS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 08:18 PM
Response to Original message
9. It was all lies, and Bush was in on it
You postulate that, "Bush thought there was something there." I don't buy that for a second. They may try to cast it that way, in a Rovian attempt to "get ahead of the story" and portray Bush as an unwitting dupe. In fact, that line of reasoning is getting a lot of field testing in the RW media, so it must be on the talking-points faxes the white house sends out daily to its foot soldiers in the media.

But it won't fly. They were carving up Iraq's oil fields shortly after bush was installed by the supreme court.

http://www.judicialwatch.org/071703.b_pr.shtml
http://www.judicialwatch.org/071703.c_.shtml
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Ignacio Upton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. I think Bush thought that some materials were there
But he knew that the elaborate arsenal that could hit was not.
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bufffbison Donating Member (384 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 08:18 PM
Response to Original message
10. IMO I think it would be too late to plant them in iraq
Cause we've been there for 3 years and not one single trace of WMD have been found. NOT ONE TRACE. And if all of suddent we find stock piles, it would seem rather suscipious. Although I wouldn't put it past behind him though.


HOWEVER. I've been wondering if this may be his plan for invading Syria. We've invaded them quietly and there have been no media outcry for the invasion. So my theory is we invade Syria, in a couple weeks you'll hear chatters, Bush appears on National Tv about the invasion, and within a month or so, you'll see bush appearing on national tv claiming mission accomplish on finding the planted stock piles.

Sounds like childs game play to me. Sending troops into harms way to find planted bombs, just so Bush has his sickning joy....disgusting!
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Ignacio Upton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. If we somehow get WMD then it will come from Syria
at least that will be what Bush.
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slaveplanet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #10
21. Not one trace?
Hmm...I wish that were true... but in order to be honest with ourselves ...that is not exactly the truth.

For some reason we took no intrest in Saddams former WMD scientists...very perplexing is the case of Dr. Mahdi Obeidi.

A pivotally important article from Mother Jones magazine discusses the alarming failure to secure the scientists. The article revolves around the story of Dr. Mahdi Obeidi, the man in charge of the Iraqi nuclear centrifuge program. “I met the mastermind of Saddam Hussein's former nuclear centrifuge program outside the Palestine Hotel in Baghdad a few days after U.S. troops took over the city in 2003. Despite the midday heat he was dressed in a sport coat and tie, which made him look incongruous amid a scruffy crowd of protesters gathered to shout slogans at the U.S. Marines guarding the hotel. He said his name was Dr. Mahdi Obeidi, and he showed me a printout of a prewar Washington Post story in which he was named as one of the Iraqi weapons scientists whom the U.S. government had very much wanted to interview. His eyes darted nervously back and forth between the protesters and the tense-looking Marines inside the cordon of concertina wire.” (“In the Garden of Armageddon” by Kurt Pitzer; Mother Jones; Setptember/October/2005 ; p. 42.)

     “Minutes earlier he had approached a photographer friend of mine on the street, saying he wanted to reach out to Washington with some important information about Saddam's nuclear program. It was a desperate move. He had tried contacting U.S. troops, but they had rebuffed him and threatened him with arrest if he showed up again. Now he wanted to know if I could use my satellite phone to help him. At first I didn't know whether to believe him. But that night, at his urging, I dialed the Washington number of David Albright, a former American member of the United Nations weapons inspections team in Iraq. When I explained who had given me his name; the line went silent for a moment.” (Idem.)

     “ ‘You are actually talking to Obeidi?’ Albright finally asked. ‘Where is he? What did he say?’ Albright had met Obeidi in Iraq in the 1990s, when the U.N. inspectors were dismantling Saddam's WMD programs. Saddam had kept Obeidi's identity secret longer than that of any other scientist, Albright said. If anyone could say for sure what had happened to Iraq's nuclear program, it was him. The next day we dialed didn't seem to have much of a plan for dealing with Saddam's WMD scientists.” (Idem.)

      Obeidi had buried critical documents about Saddam’s nuclear program in his back yard. “So we waited. A dapper 59-year-old, Obeidi arrived every day to greet me wearing an elegant abiyaa robe. When he felt especially nervous, we met in clandestine locations: by lamplight at my translator's home or in the courtyard of an Iraqi acquaintance. At other times, we sat on plastic lawn chairs in his garden, trying to figure out how he could avoid arrest by U.S. troops, as his wife and daughters served us cookies and tea. Every now and again, he would drop hints about the secrets he wanted to reveal. Then one day, he gestured toward a spot in the garden. Buried under the lotus tree next to his rosebushes a few feet from where we sat, he said, was the core of Saddam's nuclear quest: blueprints and prototype pieces for building centrifuges to enrich uranium to bomb grade. Twelve years earlier, he had buried them on orders from Saddam's son Qusay-presumably, he said, to use them to restart a bomb program someday.” (Idem.)

      Obeidi also had some of the hardware stored in his buried cache of blueprints—together with the drawings, they comprised a critical cache of knowledge. “Obeidi dug up the cache a few days later. When he showed me the four prototypes, his hands shook. The machine parts looked alien, like pieces of a futuristic motorcycle, most of them small enough to fit inside a briefcase. He explained that these components and the three-foot-high stack of diagrams were still immensely valuable—and immensely dangerous. They represented the core knowledge it would take to jump-start a covert bomb program, anywhere in the world. This was why Obeidi was so anxious. On any given day he might be arrested by U.S. forces who would consider him a ‘bad guy,’ or killed by Saddam loyalists who would see him as a collaborator, or kidnapped by some other country interested in what he knew. The decision to come forward had been a hard one.” (Ibid.; pp. 42-43.)

      Obeidi asked why the Americans were not more interested in securing the documents and the many Iraqi scientists who possessed crucial know-how about WMD’s. Indeed, why aren’t they?! “The news from Albright over the satellite phone was discouraging. U.S. intelligence on the ground was hopelessly disorganized, and there was no guarantee that American troops wouldn't imprison Obeidi even if he offered to help them. As the days wore on he felt the clock ticking, and sometimes his fear and exasperation would show through. ‘Why aren't they more interested in finding out what I have to offer?’ he once asked in the textbook English he had learned as a student at the Colorado School of Mines in the 1960s. ‘I can answer many of their questions. Surely for a great nation like the United States, it is no big deal to offer me security in exchange for everything I want to divulge. Why don't they want to help me?’” (Ibid.; p 43.)

       “I didn't have an answer. Just weeks earlier, before the invasion, President Bush had railed against Saddam for intimidating his WMD scientists and hiding them from inspectors. Colin Powell had appeared before the United Nations Security Council and warned that Obeidi's centrifuge program posed a threat to the world. It was hard to explain why, having gone to war ostensibly to get control of Iraq's dangerous knowledge, the United States was now doing so little to follow through. It’s not as if the administration hasn't talked about the danger posed by Saddam's WMD scientists. Whether Iraq had actual weapons or just ‘capabilities’ it didn't matter, it has long argued: Even mere capabilities could leak out to terrorist groups or the states that support them. During the presidential campaign, John Kerry and President Bush reached a rare point of agreement when both named the spread of nuclear weapons as the No. 1 danger facing the United States.” (Idem.)


Sigh..and to add insult to injury... The CIA actully posted those plans on a website so any terrorist could download them....

Note that the CIA posted information on its website that could prove “incredibly useful” to anyone seeking to develop WMD’s. “On June 26, the CIA posted a press release about Obeidi's cache—the most valuable WMD evidence the U.S. has yet obtained in Iraq—on its official website. It also put up digital photos of the components and even one of the key centrifuge diagrams. The pictures, which Albright says could be ‘incredibly useful’ to any regime trying to start a covert nuclear program, were online for almost a week-long enough to be downloaded and made freely available on the Internet—before the agency took them down. Literally buried for 12 years, some of Saddam's hoard of nuclear knowledge got out because of the U.S. government, not in spite of it.

for more on this sordid tale...
http://spitfirelist.com/f527.html

http://wfmu.org/listen.ram?show=16584
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 08:25 PM
Response to Original message
17. Wasn't the infamous...
'State-of-the-Union' speech in January 2003...when Bush uttered those famous 16 words?
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Ignacio Upton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Yeah
"The British government has obtained information that Saddam Hussein is buying uranium from Africa" or something to that effect.
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. and that was in January 2003...
now it's October 2005, and wherever they 'find' wmd, it's a day late and a dollar short. They may have been able to imply a connection before, but in today's climate the entire world will call Bullshit.
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 08:52 PM
Response to Original message
19. bush does not worry me nearly so much as Cheney backed into a corner.
Now, THAT is a dangerous man to consider. He will not give up his power easily. He will not take punishment due him without one hell of a fight. He is capable of anything, and WMD planted in Iraq would be the least of my worries regarding what Cheney would do to take the heat off, or have an excuse for martial law and suspending all current legal actions.
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