Are you for or against State and National Lotteries?

[Quixote1818]

In light of the wealthy Senator who spent $20 on tickets winning $850,000 on the backs of some of the poorest people in the Country, what are your thoughts on Lotteries?

I personally think they are a bad thing. Living in New Mexico I have seen people below the poverty line spend $200 on lottery tickets oblivious that they have a better chance of being eaten by a shark than winning the jackpot. My statistics teacher in Collage said people who gamble and play the lottery are Mathematically challenged.

Then again, it's their choice and Lotteries do fund a lot of great programs. What do you think?

[SammyBlue]

1. I have a different reason to support it

It's a tax on people bad at math. You want to throw your money away, knock your stupid ass out! Personally, you're better off dousing your money in gasoline and lighting it on fire than buying a lottery ticket.

It's all my personal choice thing.

[Rabrrrrrr]

2. Vehemently opposed.

I think they are morally wrong because they are a tax on the poor.

And the state should not be in the business of providing false financial hopes to its people in order to pay for the education of its children.

I think they are heinous and criminal and I am embarassed that I live in a country that has them.

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

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[nashville_brook]

6. amen!

[SammyBlue]

9. Poor or not

If you're dumb enough to waste your money that way, oh well.

People waste their money on dumber crap than that (singing fish, toilet paper covers, pet clothing, his and hers towels, snow globes, edible women's panties, flavored dental floss, cheese in a spray can and strippers) so if you want to throw your money away, who am I to stop you!

Knock your retarded ass out.

[nashville_brook]

11. actually, my dogs require "clothing" to be comfortable outside in the cold

lots of domesticated canines do. by provided snoods and sweaters for them i reinforce their house training -- it's more about behavior than making your dog look cute (that's just a nice by-product). i make sure they are comfortable enough to "go" outside in the cold, drizzley wiinter, and they don't pee in the house. perfectly reasonable.

not everything in life will reduce nicely into smart (your way) and retarded (everyone else's way).

[SammyBlue]

13. What? I raise dogs. What are these "lots of dogs" do?

Huh???

With the exception of a Whippet, whose skins tears easily, what dog needs clothing?

I lived outside Buffalo for 19 years. NEver once did I, or may neighbors play dress up with our dogs to make them feel comfortable to go on a cold, drizzly night.

You're over protective of your dog, period. That's what fur is for. My goats lived outside in the winter with fur and hair. My cat when outside. My dog went outside.

Unless you live in a harsher winter climate than Buffalo, playing dress up with your dog is dumb.

[nashville_brook]

22. whippets, iggies, greyts, chinese crested, dachund, rat terrier --

breeds that originate from warm climes need protection in cold weather. it's the right thing to do for them.

i'm kind to my animals. i don't dress them up. i don't baby them. but i realize if i require certain behviors from them i need to do the work that makes those behaviors more likely to occur.

my dogs will not go outside in the cold. period.

[Quixote1818]

18. What about their children?

The problem is those stupid people end up blowing money that could be used for food or clothing for children. As one person posted below, many of them are mentally ill. They will buy 30 lottery tickets and a tall boy and have their children right by their side.

On the other hand I suppose many would probably blow the money elsewhere anyway.

[SammyBlue]

20. You know. . .this will sound heartless, but addicts lose their children

If a gambling addict put their addiction before their kids, then that's why CPS is around.

Same could be said for alcoholics too. Remember prohibition. Worked well too. . .people who are neglectful will do so whether there is a lottery or not.

Don't take away my freedom to play because someone, somewhere must not put their children before the pick 5.

[nashville_brook]

23. you are lucky you don't have an addiction

not everyone is as lucky as you.

we don't gambling brought into every corner store. how else will mississippi rebuild if people don't get off their ass to go gamble there?

[SammyBlue]

26. I'm an alcoholic. I do have an addiction.

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

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[mondo joe]

36. Waste money on lottery or cigs. Either way the kids suffer. And

either way it's luck of the draw.

[Quixote1818]

17. I agree 100%. The stats on how they rape the poor are scary

I use to be for them until a group in my Communications class in Collage did a research project on them. The entire group started out for Lotteries then as they learned more and more the entire group ended up against lotteries. If more people were informed Lotteries would have been ended a long time ago. The stats on them and how they rob the poor are basically criminal!

[mondo joe]

33. It's not a tax on the poor. It's a choice. n/t

[dsc]

3. If they were coupled with otherwise progressive taxation

I wouldn't have a big problem but in NC we just passed a lottery while we cut the taxes of our richest citizens.

[Deja Q]

5. Let people give money freely instead of being CONNED by false hope,

doled out by people with false pride.

The jackpot is $340 million. If we gave $340 mil to each other instead of through a government that can't even keep itself in check we'd all be far better off.

(in theory, our government is cool. Unfortunately, the moment you fill it with people who want to destroy or clutter it to their own benefit and you bet people will stop wanting to like or even support it! Hence the plummeting enlistment rates, amongst other things... And that is the one common denominator as to why president pusillanimous and cowardly congress get the 30% ratings they damn well deserve. People know they're phony; just at varying levels. (I think it works only if balanced, scrupled people are in it. Some people think it's utterly impossible. Others think it only works when people like themselves are in it...)


Of course, people have to be raised with the notion that being giving to others is good and not our ersatz system that simply tells us "low prices are good! (meanwhile we'll rob you of jobs and make you as piss-poor as those we exploit in China.)"

[napi21]

7. You don't have to be poor to be stupid.

Anybody who spends $200 on lottery tickets is stupid!

The most I've ever spent was $5.00 and seldom do that. Once in a while I'll spend $1.00, knowing up front that I probably won't win, but if you don't play you have no chance at all! I figure I spend $1.00 on lots of things I don't need, and it's not going to hurt me to spend one more.

I really believe most lottery players understand the odds, and don't really expect to win. But I'm sure every person who has won a lottery also will say they didn't expect to win too!

[nashville_brook]

10. the guys i see at the discount tobacco and lotto emporium are SICK

the may be stupid too, but the reason a man buys 80 lottery tickets and ONE tallboy (in a sack) is because he is mentally/emotionally ill. compulsive gambling is a sickness.

[napi21]

16. I agree, but if he wasn't playing the lottery, he'd be giving that

same $$ to the local bookie. The only difference is that at least with the lottery, some of the profits go to something good. Not quite so with the bookie!

[nashville_brook]

24. yeah! and it gets the government off our back too!

the poor SHOULD fund education with GAMBLING! it's the ONLY reasonable thing to do!

[nashville_brook]

28. sarcasm above btw

just in case no one caught it.

[mondo joe]

38. Since all addiction is a sickness what else do you propose be

prohibited to protect the poor from themselves?

Alcohol?

Cigarettes?

Sex?

[orpupilofnature57]

8. Render onto Cesar what is Cesar's , why not get a shot in the process

[Scout]

12. The Lottery is a tax for people who can't do math. n/t

[Quixote1818]

15. Thats my opinion too

As my post says above:

My statistics teacher in Collage said people who gamble and play the lottery are Mathematically challenged.

[longship]

14. I voted yes, but for different reasons than given.

I'm against outlawing gambling and stuff like that. Prostitution should be legal. Gambling should be (and is) legal. Recreational drug use should be legal. These things are best controlled by oversight and regulation, not by turning people into criminals. Is it a perfect solution? Nope, probably far from it. But it also doesn't put million people in prison who could otherwise be productive members of society.

[Broken_Hero]

19. Its there choice...

Yeah, i see it, it saddens me also, but i also see obese people stuffing there faces with mcdonalds and what not, its there choice, no one is holding a gun to their head telling them to play powerball. I have never seen any poor person dump 200 bucks on a lotto, ever. A poor person knows how to stretch money, most of the people i see buying the scratchers, seem to be middle income ( i judge this based on what car i saw them come out of, clothes etc)....

[deadmessengers]

21. For

Here's my take: I believe that what separates us from the Repugnicans is that we truly believe in freedom, rather than just simply paying it lipservice. Part of being free, though, is being free to be stupid.
Yes, of course, playing the lottery is stupid, addictive, and disproportionately affects the poor, but if we've learned nothing else over the last hundred years, and especially the last 25, it's a fool's errand to try and prohibit behaviors that are stupid, addictive, and disproportionately affect the poor. Try, and you're just going to make things worse.

As others have pointed out, those who have gambling problems so severe that it causes them to neglect their kids will have those problems whether or not the government runs a legal gambling outlet. Those people will find another way to gamble, or they might even trade one addiction (gambling) for another (alcohol or drugs). It sucks, but that's life in poverty, and that's why we give a damn about those in poverty, because the Repugnicans sure as hell don't.

But I still believe that it's important that they be free to screw up their lives. And besides, better the revenue goes to fund education rather than to line the pockets of the local mob.

[Dulcinea]

25. I'm for them.

If you disapprove, don't play.

You can't save people from themselves.

[I_Make_Mistakes]

29. Look, there are people addicted to all kinds of things, the addiction

excuse doesn't work with me. You can buy cigarettes, (I am a smoker), alcohol ( I am a drinker), and a workaholic, and all other could be addictive substances.

The biggest addiction in the country is FOOD, how do you regulate the sale of FOOD! I play the lottery $1/chance for a possible big outcome, what is wrong with that. There are 52 weeks in a year, if I play the lottery 4 times a week we are talking $208.00/ year with a possible mega payout, what are the odds on that other game, the stock market?

That is the problem, yes there are many alcohol, cigarette, work, drug, sex, food, etc. addicts, which one is the most acceptable

[MercutioATC]

30. I'm glad YOUR state's schools are benefiting. Mine's aren't.

(well, not nearly as much as they were supposed to when this lottery thing was initially being discussed)

However, I don't buy this "they hurt the poor" thing. They hurt the stupid.

[Fountain79]

31. I sat with my cousin whose family owns a gas station...

in Texas. I lost count of how many poor and working class people were buying anywhere from 10 to 100 worth of lottery tickets. It sells hope and provides little return.

[I_Make_Mistakes]

32. Our seniors and schools do benefit. The problem is that people

think in a 146,000,000. plus million chance buying a $100.00 tickets will increase their chance by anything is unrealistic.

I buy 1 ticket, if it was meant to be, then that 1 will win. If you look at the big winners, the most I have ever seen was a $10.00, venture. I agree that the poorest do spend lots of money, but they don't have to, and they do.

[Fountain79]

34. But that's the point

It's a device that preys on the hopes that maybe just maybe buying this ticket will get them out of their situation. I agree that it provides funding but at what cost?

[mondo joe]

39. But aren't people free to spend money on hopes? Modeling school,

church, cosmetic surgery, new clothes....?

I am troubled by the patronizing tone that the poor can't make choices.

[Fountain79]

40. It's not patronizing...

And I am by no means saying that all the poor are subject to this. We are all capable of purchasing things because they prey on our weaknesses.

[mondo joe]

42. Of course it is patronizing to treat the poor like helpless victims

who can't control themselves.

There is a lot of crap people buy, even poor people, from hair dye to magazines to sodas to cigarettes to lottery tickets.

Most people on DU would never talk about how most things should be prohibited to keep the poor from buying them. Most would never dream of saying the poor aren't up to making choices about their lives like voting or abortion.

But for some reason when the lottery comes up DU members act like the poor are idiots.

[Quixote1818]

44. As one person said "Stupid People buy lottery tickets"

I prefer the term "Mathematically challenged" or people addicted to gambling.

"Mathematically challenged" are people who are rich, middle class and poor. Unfortunately the lottery provides a false hope for most poor and people who are struggling with money. The rich and middle class can absorb the loss but the poor people who buy hundreds of dollars or even just twenty dollars cant afford this kind of false hope and the stats show they are who fund the lottery the most.

It's basically selling them false hopes and stealing food right off their plates and children's plates.

[mondo joe]

45. And they buy soda, cigarettes, magazines and more. Which do you think

should be prohibited so the poor can be protected from buying them?

What an appallingly patronizing attitude - the poor are so dumb they starve their children to play the lottery.

I swear sometimes if you scratch DU you find Free Republic underneath.

[Quixote1818]

48. Oh bull shit!

I just said it effects people of all incomes and you come back with "the poor are so dumb they starve their children to play the lottery". You totally misrepresented my post. How come you failed to mention that their are Dumb middle class people as my post stated? You should win an award for dramatics as well. I am an equal opportunity offender and you are trying to say I only offend poor people. :evilgrin:

Look PT Barnum said "Their is a sucker born every minute". These suckers are in ALL income levels (I will say it again ALL income levels) but you seem to think it's just peachy keen to take advantage of the 'naive' people who happen to fall in lower income bracket.

Well, I think it's down right criminal! Hell, it's criminal to take advantage of the middle income lottery people who think they might actually win that 300 million. The lottery is a scam for 'naive' people across the board. Those in the lower income bracket just happen to be hurt the WORST!

[mondo joe]

58. You said it effects all but it hurts the poor most - so do you think the

poor KNOW they're hurt? Do you think they are out of control? Do you think they don't know what they're doing?

Do you think they don't know they are - as you say - stealing the food right from their children's plates?

If you think it's criminal to "take advantage" what besides the lottery should be criminalized?

Cigarettes?

Cable tv?

Alcohol?

I'd really like to know.

[I_Make_Mistakes]

47. But my old neighbor's boyfriend stopped by the other night.

He is gambling addicted to a minor degree. I said that if it is meant to be, then 1 ticket will win. The light bulb went on!

It is not the buying of a ticket, it is the mentality that 10 will increase your chance ten fold, 100 will increase your chance 100 fold. With the odds the way they are, I never expect to win, but the investment is so minor, that, it isn't an issue.

The real issue lies in why we are so hopeless in the American Dream, that people actually feel they have a better chance of winning the lottery than earning a decent living?

I guess my opinion is that there are so many addictions, how can you say one is worse than the other? If we banned everything that could potentially harm us, there really would not be much left.

My list, soda, coffee, tea, red meat, canned goods, chocolate, tobacco, alcohol, work, sex, food, kid's over-active schedules and let's not forget FDA approved prescriptive drugs , etc. One mans trash is another's treasure.

So, who gets to decide? On the other hand, we have a moral responsibility to point out the effects, odds, etc., and yet no moral authority to judge others for their flaws.

[mondo joe]

41. For that matter, it's not necessarily bad for people to buy hope.

I grew up in as poor family in a poor neighborhood in a poor city.

My grandmother worked hard her whole life for pitiful wages, from her teen years to her 70's. And she saved as much as she could, even rolling pennies.

Every week she bought 2 lottery tickets.

She never won anything worth mention. But she looked forward to it, it made her feel a little better about things, and it was worth the 2 bucks a week.

[mondo joe]

35. Strongly in favor. I am pro-choice. Abort or don't, marry, play the

lottery, read the book you want to read.

If you don't like the lottery don't play it.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

37. People freguently do dumb things like buy lottery tickets.

Or vote Republican. Or give their hard earned money to preachers in hope it'll buy them a ticket to heaven.

[wuushew]

43. Gambling is detrimental to class struggle

Whether or not people are free to throw away their money, the effect is that gambling revenue is used to reduce property tax rates.

The rich benefit. Since wealth stratification is a societal negative why do we and the government support it? The answer is because the rich own the government.

[mondo joe]

46. That assumes property taxes would go up, rather than the services go

unfunded.

[Darranar]

49. Opposed. The government should not sponsor gambling. n/t

[Quixote1818]

50. The Lottery is not much different than a Fucking Pyramid Scam

A few people make a shit load of money off the backs of everyone else and people off all income levels get riped off with poor people who who lose a greater percentage of their income being hurt the worst. Since a very high level of poor people play the lottery it become a tax on the poor.

It's a fucking scam! Government sponsored gambling.

I think it was Will Rogers who said "I would rather be the guy who bought a piece of the Brooklyn Bridge than the guy who sold it to him." I would put it like this: "I would rather be the guy who bought a piece of the Brooklyn Bridge than the FUCKING ASS HOLE that scammed people into buying something the mathematical probability's of wining are less than being hit by lightning!"

Then again, at least a few schools get built in the process, so at least the community gets something back.

[Celeborn Skywalker]

51. I am in favor

I am in New Mexico also and I see the type of addicts you are talking about but nonetheless I still believe it should be a personal decision whether to buy or not.

Perhaps a bulletin board could be put up at places where lottery tickets are sold thatt show the odds of winning. At least then they would know their chances.

[I_Make_Mistakes]

52. Please explain to me the difference between the lottery and the stock

market. The odds are different, but there are still odds. I really want to hear somebody, truly justify playing the market as opposed to playing the lottery!

PS< I worked on WS and any BS'ers will be smoked!

[wuushew]

53. I imagine the wealth utility curves for the two are quite different

The gambler's convex, the investor's concave.

To be tangent to either curve the risk return attributes for the two systems would be radically different.

[I_Make_Mistakes]

54. And I expect a purely scientific person to say such a thing!

Convex and Concave have meaning to me, also, however, it is not worth the posting. I cede.

[ObaMania]

55. I'm for them, but...

.. I think they should have better odds to make more people win every week. Really, why does one person deserve to win $340M and why do they need that much? Heck, I've been playing the same exact numbers for 10 years and haven't gotten so much as a free ticket on it. The schools, roads, and state programs would still get their money regardless of how many people win each week.

My position is, some money is better than no money and I think the Lotto systems should be more equitable.

I have a friend who plays the canadian lottery and gets a check in the mail every couple of months. It's not a lot, but at least it's something.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

56. I'm for it.

As far as it hurting the poor, I don't buy that argument. Nobody is forced to play the lottery, and it certainly isn't restricted to only poor players.

[Jose Diablo]

57. Where can I vote "Don't Care"

Is this to be the next thing to divide people, 'How do you feel about gambling?'.

Seems to me the only ones concerned with this 'issue' are the RW fundamentalists.

I don't give a shit, one way or the other.

As for the games themselves, the odds are pretty bad as a 'game'. After all, the state is taking 50% right off the top. Even horse betting only allows the track to take, what is it, 12% I think. So when the state does it, they take 50%? It's a tax.

Even organized crime would not be allowed this much profit as nobody would play the game. All that keeps the game running is the state can run big marketing operations to keep the game floating. It's a scam, but a scam run by the politicians and their corrupt friends. The players are those that mostly cannot afford to waste their money to 'buy' into a dream that won't happen. As such its wrong, especially seeing as it is the state that is pushing these empty dreams, so the politicians can profit.

A 50% tax on dreams of a better life, funded by those that for the most part, have no other opportunities to win in life. Thats what these games are really about.

As for paying for college educations with part of the profit from these games. It's a shell game. As money is supplied to colleges from these games, other money is withdrawn, no net increase and again the pork is funded to higher levels.

But as this is a RW fundamentalist issue, they can run with the ball. I see no reason for us on the left make it our issue.

Edit to add: If we think about it, one chance out of 146,000,000 to win big. Might as well say zero chance out of 146,000,000. The difference is very small. Might as well toss a dollar out the window of the car as you pass the store, little difference.

However, for the state to push the idea that success in America is a crap shoot, all luck. Now that idea the state pushes IS evil, as it takes away from people the idea that they can win, if they try.

And this is why it's wrong. It is a dream killer.