A Wal-Mart Moment.... What would you do?

[TygrBright]

In Maryland, I lived in a town that took great pride in being one of the first (I think maybe THE first) jurisdictions to prevent Wal-Mart from invading. Local activist groups gathered information on the company's predatory operating model and its effects, plus local demographic and statistical information that underlined how ludicrous it was to put a WM in a community that had less than 30,000 people within a 25-mile radius of the store, and several competing WMs and KMs in the 30-mile radius.

We heard all the arguments from both sides, and (fortunately) common sense and "elitism" won.

In Santa Fe, I'm moving into a neighborhood where Wallyworld just WON a similar battle over the Forces of Light, and will now open a gigantic store on the outskirts of an area where several large residential subdivisions converge. There is a Wallyworld about 15 miles away, but almost no retail at all immediately adjacent to this large concentration of single- and multi-family affordable housing.

I just had a conversation with one of my new neighbors, and we were chatting cordially until the WM thing came up, at which point her face hardened, and she said, "Yes, I can hear the sarcasm in your voice when you say 'Oh, aren't we lucky,' but let me tell you, for the people here, this is a good thing. I don't know what Wal-Mart does anywhere else, but in this town they pay a living wage (of course, SF has a living wage ORDINANCE) and treat their workers well. People want those jobs, and a lot of them have worked their way up to management. They like working there. And the cost of living is so high here-- what are people on a budget supposed to do? NOT buy their kids school clothes if they can't afford to pay for ecologically-correct, fair-labor-produced clothes? I don't think so! It's hard enough to go to one store when you're working all the time and have kids to look after, but having to chase around to the drugstore, the grocery store, the hardware store, and so on takes all day. We LIKE being able to go to one place and do all our shopping and get low prices. And Wal-Mart landscapes for low-water use and attractive appearance around their stores, and tries to make their stores fit in with the local standards about appearances. They contribute to local youth charities and organize their employees to volunteer. Here in Santa Fe they try to be good neighbors. So don't talk to me about Wal-Mart! I don't care what they do somewhere else, I'm struggling to make a living HERE."

Yikes! I just said "Well, I don't think their business model is healthy for communities in the long run, but I'm glad they are good neighbors here," or something to that effect, and left it at that.

But having explored local conditions in Santa Fe, I am understanding more and more of where my neighbor comes from. There are two "Santa Fes." One is the highly-educated, disproportionately-Anglo, ultra-liberal people (many of whom have relocated here from elsewhere,) and the other is the disproportionately-Hispanic, mostly native, moderate-to-conservative people. The first group has the luxury of studying and attending to issues like the complex effects of economic and environmental decisions, and choosing ways to make their lifestyles have less negative impact. The second group has to focus on the immediate issues of survival in a VERY harsh economic environment.

The two groups don't, apparently, have much time or sympathy for one another's point of view. The educated libs make well-meaning attempts to improve things for everyone (like the aforementioned living wage ordinance,) but often their unfamiliarity with the realities experienced by the groundlings (if I can borrow a Shakespearian term) result in these efforts backfiring. The groundlings are rather aggressively (but understandably) hostile to the efforts of "newcomers" to broaden the geographic and temporal considerations in the decision-making process. The disconnect seems pretty entrenched.

I don't plan on shopping at Wal-Mart. But I'm not going to try and change my neighbors' opinions about it, either. There's enough lack of communication across the divide, as it is. I want to find ways to connect with BOTH sides, not end up in the "outsiders" ghetto, however comfy, ecologically- and politically-correct, culturally rich, etc., that ghetto may be.

What would you do?

curiously,
Bright

[ClassWarrior]

1. Host a screening of the Wal-Mart Movie, debuting 11/13/05.

Details here: http://www.walmartmovie.com

NGU.

[Craig3410]

42. And I found that there's a showing in Santa Fe:

http://action.bravenewfilms.org/event/wm_screening.jsp?event_KEY=5411&track=

United Church of Santa Fe 1804 Arroyo Chamiso
Santa Fe, NM

DIRECTIONS: south of St. Vincent Hospital at the corner of St. Michael and Arroyo Chamiso

Where is the 1804 Arroyo Chamiso located in SF? (Sorry, native Arkansan; the only other states I've been in are Louisiana and Oklahoma. :))

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

2. I'd check out my neighborhood

is there a local group that is trying to start a store/co-op that needs your support? Talk to your neighbors about THIS group, because they will have street credibility. Personally, I shop at thrift stores for my clothes, because the quality is better, I'm more likely to find clothes made in the USA, and I'm supporting a worthy cause (two stores within walking distance of my office support the local humane society and the hospital).

[pansypoo53219]

8. indeed, inform her of resale.

the quality is so much better. heck, i have gotten the best sweaters at my favorite resale shop. shit, yesterday i got a newish pair or levi's 560 32x32 for $1.50, and i just ordered 2 pair from JCP for WAY more. jeez, i spent to much yesterday. a whole$10.
then there's the estate sales. my 'new' 1951 upholstered chair i got for $12 is a awesome desk chair and my 3 cats love it.
shame i stubbed my toes on the $4 swivel desk chair that is worth about $40, more if stripped.

walmart is not a bargain.

[TygrBright]

10. There is a great organization...

...called the Alliance, of locally-owned and independent businesses and people who want to support them. Many offer membership discounts and other shopping incentives. You can bet I will be supporting them, big time.

But the point (which I understand) made to me by a number of locals on BOTH sides of the divide, is that the sheer effort to "think outside the box" to live sustainably, is an unreasonable expectation.

To a mom trying to hold a home together on an income that barely covers the (EXTREMELY HIGH) cost of housing here, much less food and other basics, the notion of taking time from job & kids to seek out the various thrift shops and comb slowly through the piles for "quality" items that will fit her family AND are "made in USA," is to laugh. She's probably already working at least part-time, plus raising kids and keeping home/family going. She's tired most or all of the time. She looks in the wallet, looks at the pile of bills to be paid, looks at the less than 1/2 tank of gas in the car, and the calculation "drive around to thrift shops and spend a couple of hours sorting through piles to get the right sizes and items" doesn't add up, especially when she knows she can drive to the nearby Wallyworld and get what she needs cheap and fast.

The Alliance is doing their best to market to everyone, but indies just can't afford (yet! Working on it...!) to provide what the economically-marginalized really need-- which is both "cheap" AND "easy.' The tradeoff you make to be an ecologically and economically positive consumer is extra effort in both mindfulness (self-education) and time/energy. It is a long, slow process for anyone who isn't born and raised thinking and caring about these issues to realize their bread-and-butter impact in both short and long term.

Some of the most effective and powerful advocates for intelligent consumption have been people from the economic fringes who "get it," and see exactly how "cheap and easy" dooms them and their to the fuzzy side of the lollipop forever. But it's not an epiphany that the average marginal-income consumer is going to have while trying to hang on teeth and toenails at the bottom levels of Maslow's pyramid. Nor is it reasonable to expect them to, and it's painfully insensitive to demand it. You can't even be effective in helping create the conditions for that epiphany to happen unless you're willing to suspend the judgmental attitude and experience their realities. I'm hoping to find ways to do so, but as an outsider I'm handicapped by a couple of strikes against me already. It won't be a fast process.

The positive experiences of others in similar situations would be very helpful and encouraging, if anyone cares to share them.

hopefully,
Bright

[democrat_patriot]

3. Wal-Mart is sending our money to china

who in turn is buying America.

NEVER shop there.

[Raster]

5. That's probably reason numero uno not to shop wallyworld.

And there's a host of others.

[DrRang]

4. You nailed it, Tygr . . .

The Albq. City Council heard exactly the same split opinions in the fight over whether to build a Wal-Mart at the Coors and Rio Bravo intersection, on what was the last large patch of farmland in the South Valley. Most South Valley residents could hardly wait for the store to open.

I won't go in a Wally World, but if you're financially stressed, they are a god-send here and now, regardless of the long term damage done by their policies. And I don't know the answer, unless it's some form of entirely new enterprise that can market goods with the same range and prices.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

6. I have a similar situation

in that I can buy the same groceries at Publix and pay about $25 more. For me, that is an hour of work. Another issue that Walmart solves really IS the one stop thing. I have mobility problems and spending the day getting in and out of a car and making separate stops exhausts me.

We aren't going to get people to stop shopping at WalMart.

What we have to do is see to it that WalMart plays fair.

[Clark2008]

23. You make $25 an hour and can't afford anywhere but Walmart?

I'm sorry if I'm reading this wrong, but $25 a hour here would put me in the Bloomingdale's category. :)


BTW, up until I got engaged, I was a single mother earning a low salary on a full-time job with no child support. I never shopped at Wally World and I did OK.

It can be done - you just have to MAKE time to do it. Besides, all the Wally Worlds in my area are outside of the city (the county cut them HUGH!!!111! deals to locate there) and would cost me more to drive out to them than to just shop the local supermakets and thrift stores and boutiques in my neighborhood, especially with the ever-increasing cost of gasoline.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

32. I have been teaching since 1972

and yes, I make 25 an hour. For seven hours a day, ten months a year with four weeks of unpaid "vacation" time thrown in. That 25 an hour goes to support two house payments, four adults, two infants and pays full time medical school tuition so it is spread thin.

Forget thrift shops. I am size 6X. There are no "local" supermarkets, they are all conglomerates: Publix, Albertson's, Winn-Dixie. I am 1 mile from WalMart. I have serious mobility issues. Many stops = exhaustion and I even get my hair cut in WalMart. I do my banking there. Many of disabled friends do, as well. None of us drive so we do the best we can. Boutiques are out of the question. They are rarely accessible. And actually I can't think of where any are. Maybe a few little gift shops here and there. But when I need something like, say, a laundry basket or baby equipment I get it at Walmart.

However, that said, I buy a LOT of stuff online. Overstock.com RULES. I also buy frozen food and have it delivered. I wish we still had milk, eggs and baked good delivered like when I was a kid. I'd be set.

So what I do is write letters and bitch to WalMart about their policies and I actually get back never nice letters which at least tells me they are reading them. I am hoping once we get GWB out of office the business environment will be a little less accepting of their abuses.

[Clark2008]

53. Thanks for clarifying.

I wasn't trying to be persnickity or bitchy. It's just that I would LOVE to make $25 an hour.

I have a college degree and tons of computer skills, but it seems not to make a difference in this lousy job market in a "right to work" (read: right to be treated like shit) state.

I, too, buy most of my stuff online.

BTW, I finished - completely - my Christmas shopping today!! :bounce: Now, I don't have to go out in the madness post-Thanksgiving. :hi:

(P.S.: I actually emailed CostCo. and BEGGED them to open a store in my city. LOL!)

[WA98296]

7. Tell them about the Dead Peasants policies at WalMart

In Wasthington we are working on legislation that prevents one of WalMarts not-so-famous tricks.

According to my legislator, WalMart likes to purchase life insurance policies on their employees . These policies are purchased without the knowledge or consent of the employees. WalMart is able to purchase these policies on some sort of great deal because they buy in such volume! Currently proceeds (upon the employee's death) are used to fund individual executive bonuses. That is WHY there are so many elderly hired.

Here is a link: http://hdc.leg.wa.gov/members/ericks/20050208_deadpeasants.asp

Tax payers end up subsidizing WalMart costs because the employees end up in the "system" to get health care and even food stamps. WalMart TRAINS their employees how to receive food stamps and health services on the backs of tax payers rather than provide insurnace and compensation.

[pop goes the weasel]

9. do you need to do anything?

You can continue to not shop at Walmart, but be supportive of your neighbor's decision. You might point out that the Santa Fe Walmart made all those concessions to design and wages because Santa Fe insisted on it, and offer praise for the people of Santa Fe's victory in getting both a needed retail outlet and a company that adds to the city's economy and culture rather than parasitizes it.

The vast majority of Walmarts go in as large ugly gray boxes adding to run-off and pollution problems. The vast majority of them engage in exploitive labor practices. Your neighbors can feel good about being Santa Fe citizens and empowered to make demands on other big businesses when you point out how they were able to use their collective power to negotiate better conditions.

And maybe you should shop at that Walmart. After all, you said yourself that there is hardly any other retail for 15 miles around. Walmart didn't displace any other businesses by moving into your neighborhood; it filled a need that wasn't being met before. If we want Walmart to behave in socially constructive ways, we should reward it when it does.

[TygrBright]

13. You nailed it, weasel...

Santa Fe as a whole is trying to think outside the box and apply creative solutions. If the local government/community leaders can make Wallyworld toe a line that keeps the local damage to a minimum, and provides local benefit, they're doing their primary job. It's unreasonable to demand that they make the well-being of the rest of the world a major decision criterion-- if they tried, they'd precious soon be replaced by those who WOULD put local interests first. At least this way, they provide a model-- maybe others can profit by example.

I don't plan on shopping at Wallyworld, since we are financially comfortable (not by ANY means rich, heck, by the standards of the local uppercrust we are firmly in the peon class...) I have the luxury and choose to take the responsibility to support locally-owned businesses wherever possible. But since there's no Costco, I will occasionally shop at Sam's Club. I can't afford to eschew Megabusiness entirely, but I'll do my best, and I won't demand that my neighbors (who don't have the same options I have) make the same choices I make.

appreciatively,
Bright

[warrens]

11. Wal-Mart didn't start out evil and it's not always evil

In its native region, WM did a lot of good in the 60s and 70s. It was the first retailer I know of to give its employees stock option plans. In a small town in Arkansas in 1977, the guy worked at the local mill and his wife worked at WM, and her salary was enough to pay the mortgage, so they lived very well. And it was the first extreme discounter, finding deals all over the country and blowing them out in their stores.

When WM moved out of its base, it ran into competition for the first time. And that's when it started getting evil about keeping costs to a minimum. When there is no Wal-Mart or Costco around to keep competitors honest, they jack their prices up. Your neighbor has a point; in a market like Santa Fe, WM probably does a lot of good. And because they have a fair wage statute, they pay better than elsewhere. Read Nickel and Dimed and see what they pay when they can get away with it.

The average pay at WM is about $9, but that includes department managers and warehouse guys and stuff. Costco, by contrast, pays in the high teens (starting pay is $11 an hour). Nevertheless, WM sure beats working in a chicken slaughter plant for minimum wage, which is the alternative in a lot of WM towns.

[Coyote_Bandit]

12. It is easy to condemn those who shop at Wally World

Of course, most of the folks I see doing that are affluent enough to be able to go shop elsewhere.

I absolutely agree that Wal-Mart is predatory, treats it workers poorly and undermines community economies. And that is just a short list of very valid grievances against the monster.

As a fully employed fully self-supporting professional person I never darkened their doors. But as a long term (approaching three years) unemployed single person I find my way there from time to time to shop. I must weigh the loss of money out of my own pocket against the cost to society at large. It is quite obvious that society doesn't give a flip about me or my well being.

I will leave the ranks of Wally World shoppers when I again become a fully self-supporting person. Anybody that doesn't like that can give me a job.

Edit for spelling....

[Solon]

51. We had a saying at my Wal*Mart when I worked there...

The managers shop at Wallyworld, the associates shop at Goodwill. Don't you DARE suggest that Wal*Mart is anytime NEEDED in many communities. The only excuse is when it has a de facto monopoly, for the poor, the truly poor in many areas, we have the Salvation Army, Goodwill, and Food Kitchens to look forward to. Besides, Wal*Mart is definately NOT the cheapest in most towns anyways, especially the ones where it is a monopoly, I should know, I did the pricing myself.

[Lex]

14. Shopping at Walmart ultimately harms the poorer people in town

in the long run, even if they don't happen to see beyond the perceived bargain that may be on the shelf right now.

I suppose that might be brushed off as an "elitist" attitude but I don't think it makes it any less a fact.

[Coyote_Bandit]

21. You're right but

long-term costs are irrelevant when you are struggling to survive from day to day. Price alone is a deciding factor for those who are barely getting by - if that. Many Wally World shoppers would be delighted to have the ability to shop elsewhere. And, depending on where you live Target, K-Mart and Costco are not always an alternative.

[McCamy Taylor]

15. Shop TARGET! They donate to the Democrats, have great clothes!

[mtnester]

16. They also allow their pharmacists to refuse to fill prescriptions

for emergency contraception. This issue was pretty hot in GD the other day.

I sued to shop at Target due to every reason you listed, however, once I read their response letter in GD to this issue, I am done with them to.

(Seriously considering learning to sew)

[WA98296]

17. BS - Target contributes 83% to RED, And one of Schwarzenegger's biggest

contributors.

[WA98296]

18. Costco gives 99% of political contributions BLUE and treats employees well

So spend your money there if you need to shop big box.

[TygrBright]

20. Great... if there is one.

Hope Costco opens in Santa Fe soon.

Until then, we live with the realities we have.

diffidently,
Bright

[all.of.me]

45. target is off cerillos road on the west end

it's on zafarano, or something like that, near the villa linda mall and toys r us. costco is in albuquerque, but i've never been there. don't think there is one in sf.

[TygrBright]

52. Yep, I've found the Target...

At least the quality of goods available is a bit better there, and the corporate policies a bit less noxious.

Still no Costco, though. I'm joining the DirectBuy club in Albuquerque, at least for a year, to cover some of the major move-in items like window blinds, etc. If Costco is nearby, perhaps we'll do that as well. But I don't see us making frequent trips to Albuquerque after the first few weeks.

We're planning on being homebodies in our new home!

happily,
Bright

[Ally McLesbian]

24. More on Costco

Costco wages are twice the average Wal-Mart wages as well. Employees are so much happier. And I REALLY love the Costco philosophy, where the CEO tries to return all profits to the employees and the customers, and takes only $350K/year for himself.

Wall Street analysts want Costco to become a bit more greedy in order to become more competitive, but Costco refuses. Again, great management philosophy.

I've been a member since the beginning of this year, and the savings from cheaper gasoline alone pays for the membership. Of course, it's also the only way I can make gasoline "less red." Whenever I take a road trip to another city, I always look for Costco locations with gas stations, and go there to refuel.

[Clark2008]

26. What do you do if there's no CostCo in your town?

My only option is Target. I have to go there. At least they're not as predatory as Wal-mart - and they have better-made clothes.

Besides, my local Target doesn't even DO prescriptions, so that would not be an issue here.

[shanti]

39. costco is NOT target or walmart

apples and oranges, imo. their clientele is more middle class and their products are often sold in bulk. how many low income people buy in bulk? when you're poor, its's hard enough buying one of something, let alone 5 or 6. also, costco has membership requirements.

as an aside, did you know that costco is selling a crayon drawing by picasso for $145,000 on its website?? kind of gives you an idea of costco's target customer.

[I Have A Dream]

28. buyblue.org shows Target as follows...

$36,380 to Democrats
$181,060 to Republicans
$0 to Others
$217,439 in Total Contributions


That's 83% to Republicans. Also, Target allows its pharmacists to refuse to fill emergency contraception prescriptions.

I'm not saying that they're not better than WalMart, but they're not perfect. However, I don't think that there is a perfect place other than Costco, which may or may not have clothing. (I don't have one close to my house, so I don't know.)

I try to go to K-Mart when possible. Here's the buyblue.org information for K-Mart:

$0 to Democrats
$2,250 to Republicans
$0 to Others
$2,250 in Total Contributions

Even though they gave 100% to Republicans, they're basically apolitical given the amount of money that's involved.

I'm not showing this information to criticize anyone for going to Target, but rather just so everyone's aware of these issues, if interested.

[Touchdown]

30. Sears Bought Kmart.

What's their contributions like?

Costco does have clothing, but it's very seasonal, and I found limited in sizes for shirts. Few, if any XXLs. Calvin Klein Jeans for $20 can't be beat though! Nautica for $14? Most big names like Levis, Van Heusen, Ocean Pacific, etc.

[I Have A Dream]

36. Info below...

$73,570 to Democrats
$140,430 to Republicans
$0 to Others
$214,000 in Total Contributions

66% Republicans & 34% Democrats

[McCamy Taylor]

37. Thanks. Last time I looked it was Dems. Wonder why it changed.

[DainBramaged]

48. You as have I may have to change that

They allow their pharmacists to deny birth control and emergency contraceptives, and their CEO is a huge Thuclican.

[Semi_subversive]

19. They are now building a gargantuan Super Walmart

about 1/2 mile from my house in Sacramento County. It's supposed to open in Jan/Feb 2006. Golly, I can't wait for all the traffic it will bring. I will probably will do some shopping there, but definitely not for groceries. It'll make it a bit less crowded at WinCo. Wow, I guess there is an upside!

[Ally McLesbian]

22. At least you recognize

that Hispanics are not liberals, but conservatives, something liberals often forget when crafting a Latino strategy. Good for you!

[TygrBright]

25. Not necessarily true in New Mexico...

I have run into a great many Hispanic liberals here, or at least Hispanics who consider themselves liberal. In fact, with the exception of the well-to-do Anglo incomers in the NCentral region, it's very difficult here to draw classic "liberal/conservative" boxes and put people in them.

The Hispanic population is largely Catholic, which certainly influences them on some issues-- but there is also a large local tradition in the classic "liberal Catholic" mold.

Heavy streak of Western "Lemme control my land and my guns, and I don't care what you do" libertarianism here, that cuts across both sides of the aisle. And I haven't figured out NM party politics yet (and suspect I may never do so, it's wild and woolly in every sense!) but a lot of things that would be considered "naturally" Democratic or Republican policy positions turn up on the other side of the aisle here.

In short, generalizations here are muy pericoloso! I'm keeping my head down and listening and trying to learn.

warily,
Bright

[progressivebydesign]

27. I just wonder how Walmart is paying a "living wage" there.

I can appreciate her comments, as some people who are desperate for work would see Walmart as some kind of savior. I mean.. retail jobs and extremely cheap merchandise. The sad thing is that the economy over the past ten years has necessitated the market for $6.00 shoes. The problem, probably, is less with Walmart (tho I despise them personally) and more with corporate America and the politiicians destroying the American dream. Also, the addiction to consumerism in AMerica (#1 hobby = Shopping!), is a problem, as well. Buying cheap crap from China so your kids have school clothes, is one thing, but how many of us know people (including low income) that have tons of crap they've bought, and don't even wear.

Our town fought Walmart successfully years ago. There is no place for it here. But, I'm certain there are towns in my State that could use the jobs and shopping there. Small biz is getting screwed less by Walmart than by the new economy.. in the sense that most people can't afford to pay a few bucks more for something in a local business that does not buy in bulk, or they are afflicted with acute consumerism that tells them that 30 bux for one pair of shoes is ridiculous, when they can buy 5 pairs at Walmart for that price (even tho they only need one pair and the ones that they'll buy combined will last as long as the more expensive pair).

[Thirtieschild]

29. Sometimes You Don't Have a Choice

Three weeks after we retired to a small town in the southwestern corner of New Mexico, I walked out of Walmart totally depressed. All I could think was - this is where I'm going to have to shop for the rest of my life. If you need a small appliance, say a new coffee maker, there's nowhere else to buy one. If you need sheets, there's nowhere else to buy them. If you need sporting goods, or luggage, or a even new clock, there's nowhere else to buy them. And if you need new shoes - well, you can buy them at WM, but whe wants shoes from WM. So - when we make the 250 mile round trip to Las Cruces, or the 400-mile round trip to Tuscon, or the 480-mile round trip to Albuquerque, we go with a long list. Buying over the Intenet helps, but some things have to be looked at in person.

And lets not overlook all the boarded up buildings downtown. I wasn't here to see the destruction of downtown, but it's sad to see the results. I grew up in a small town, half the size of this one, and there was far more variety; you could buy just about everything you needed without ever driving to Amarillo.

So - we do have to shop at WM far more than I'd like. We also buy some groceries there. We are on a fixed income and as prices go up, and gas goes up, we have to make do where we can. I hate Walmart, complain mightily when I'm there, but sometimes there isn't a choice. Before we retired we never set foot in WM. Target was our choice. Even K-Mart.

Sigh.

[RayOfHope]

31. You're right. I don't have a choice

unless I want to drive 120 miles round trip to go to Target.

We have 2 local grocery stores, but even their store brands are about 75 cents-$1 more per item. Our budget can't take that (and we are already cutting every corner we can).

It makes my stomach knot up when I walk through Wal Mart's doors, but we really don't have an alternative. One day when we live closer to other stores and I am working again I'll quit shopping WM, but for now I'm stuck. ):

[pitohui]

33. i agree w yr neighbor & i do shop at the wall EOM

.

[noonwitch]

34. I don't know, but SF's living wage law sounds like a good idea

It's amazing how decently companies can treat employees when they are required to by law, and that law is enforced.

[Ksec]

35. IMO

If WalMart would concentrate on selling American made goods and then allowed wages to catch up with the cost of living I wouldnt be so anti walmart . The CEO should get a clue. If he wants to get a better PR then he needs to support Americans instead of Commie China. I have nothing against the Chinese people neither but Im not willing to sacrifice my family for them just yet.

[proud patriot]

38. I suggest

Making an "I hate Wallmart" T-Shirt and wear
it while you shop at the small local merchants.

They will love it :D You'll make friends right
away :hug:

[ncrainbowgrrl]

44. Now that's a pretty cool idea!

I might just have to do that!
:hi:

[hyphenate]

40. It appears you are able to see

the need for a certain economic level to have a store which gives them a better deal for their money. It's not a concept that is limited to Santa Fe, it is something people in every part of the country need.

Personally, I am very dependent on Walmart, even here in Massachusetts. I have a limited income, and I have the advantage at Walmart of putting items on layaway that I just can't afford to buy in one payment. I love Target with a passion, but they don't offer layaways, and that hurts when I need to buy something a little higher in cost. I don't have any credit cards, so that's not an option, and frankly, without Walmart, my life would be a lot different, in that I would be without a lot of necessities, like blankets, towels, storage items, etc.

Walmart has its place. Many liberals don't understand that, and I can't understand why. It's a necessary place, and while it is certainly not the perfect place, it does offer those at lower economic levels a chance to buy things that they could not afford otherwise.

"The" place to go used to be K Mart. K Mart has left many areas and thus it is no longer the one place to do things. And there are few discount stores where things can be affordably put on layaway or paid for in installments.

It would be nice at some future time to have another choice. But unless someone can come up with an alternative to Walmart, it isn't going to be possible. And instead of some people bitching about Walmart, I'd like to see them offering those alternatives to it, instead of trying to eradicate it. Those in the lowest economic levels would certainly not be happy to see their only chance at purchasing something torn away from them so glibly.

[neebob]

41. I live in Durango, which is like Santa Fe in a lot of ways

only the Forces of Light lost on the Wal-mart Super Center, and there's no living wage ordinance. Then came Home Depot. People who don't have many choices will shop wherever they can. Even some of my most bleeding-heart pinko liberal friends, many of whom have incomes that allow them to shop anywhere, shop at Wally's and rationalize it.

I'd have a hard time staying away myself if it wasn't 15 miles away on the other side of town and not on my way to anything and a big production just to get into the parking lot and find a space and then go in and schlep around the cement-floored, inadequately air-conditioned space and catch the miserable collective job-hating vibe. It simply isn't worth my while. Just the thought of it makes my feet and lower back hurt.

I do as you do - just don't go there and keep my mouth shut with those who do.

One thing I noticed was that not long after the Wal-mart opened, the other (corporate) grocery stores in town - which really aren't much better than Wal-mart - suddenly upgraded and started the card deals making them seemingly more affordable.

[leanin_green]

43. I worked for a time at the local WM distribution center. . .

I loaded the trailers you all see on the highways. We were basically the clothing distribution center for the western states.

I started reading some of the boxes I was loading and where they came from. Pakistan, Tiawan, China, Phillipines, Thialand, Indonesia, India, Guam, to name a few. All coming through the Port of Long Beach.

Then, I began to research how these products(mostly clothes)were made in these countries. Mostly sweat shops, low wages, child labor etc. I realized that this all came about because of GAT and other trade policies(remember the story about DeLay and his business associates in Guam? A pretty fair representation of labor practices in these other countries).

Now, I don't want to deny these countries and their citizens a chance at making a living. But what I do object to is the manner in which their poor economic status is exploited by American companies. Wal Mart can afford to charge less because of the exploitation of poorer nations. They flood our market with cheap(and very often well made by these people)lower cost manufactured goods that undermine our own labor forces. When we buy from Wal Mart we hurt American workers.

The wages Wal Mart pays in my region are considered very good, when you consider the standard starting wage is anywhere from $6.50-8.00 and hour. Yet, I had to pay upwards in the amount of $225.00 a month for my health coverage, consistently worked only 30-40 hours(usually 32 hours on average)a week, other deductions for supposed benefits that WM offered that dwindled my overall paycheck to what I would have made working at the lower paying jobs commonplace to my region. You do the math, I have, and it doesn't add up.

We have two supercenters within a 20 square mile radius. We have a population of slightly over 100,000 within the entire county. As more and more big chain stores, ie., Home Depot, Lowes, Costco, Best Buy, have encroached on our landscape, I've watched the smaller Mom&Pop stores around them go out of business or have to invest large amounts to make imporvements just to compete(they must be in debt to their eyeballs).

I no longer work for Wal Mart, nor will I shop there. I read my wife the riot act every time I find a receipt or entry on our bank statement from Wal Mart. I tell her, "This is money that "I" earn. I won't have it spent like that. When you make your own money, your free to shop where you like, until then, please respect my wishes and support the local retailers."

Wal Mart has the right to run their business the best way they see fit. I also have the right not to support that way if I don't agree with it. It's the only power I have. Where I spend my money.

[all.of.me]

46. i don't argue with people who like wal-mart

i find it's a waste of time. as you know, i'm in taos. we have battled back super wm many times. there is one 45 minutes down the road. people here are willing to go to abq for a haircut (2.5 hours away!), so they can go to freakin' super wm in espanola. that's my opinion on it.

this is a very depressed area, so people shop there. the people that work there love it. they tell me that! i let them be. i don't see that i am going to change their opinion.

[DainBramaged]

47. There is no argument, 6 years on I won't shop there

And I'm poor as a church mouse. I get by every month, that's it. But in 6 years, I haven't bought one thing from them. I stopped eating red meat a while ago, and I quit smoking, and all of a sudden, there is no conflict because I have a few bucks to make food choices with that don't involve big box stores. I don't own nothing but jeans and pullover shirts, and I make do at flea markets and dollar stores for socks and such. I don't need nothing that would induce me to walk into the new Wal-Fuck 11 miles from my home, not even to look around. And when someone shoots of their mouth about the wonders of Wal-Fuck, I ask them why they support slave labor. THAT gets their attention.

Wal-Fuck is like mold. If you don't watch out, it is impossible to remove, and it comes back in the darkness.

I find the best way to deal is ask these converts what happens when they shut it down because they can build a bigger one in the next town? When they tell me it's convenient, I ask them why they stopped shopping where they shopped, and they can NEVER answer, because they are brainwashed by these fucks. They think driving 5 miles to save ten cents is worth it. They go out of their way to save a dollar and never realize how much their time is worth.

My Dad used to say, you can make more money but you can never make more time. Someday, these people will put a value on time, and they'll have figured it all out.

[SmokingJacket]

49. My town fought them, and won.

Then, seven or ten years later, new mayor, exhausted liberal population, they came back and WON.

Fuck 'em. I'm never going in there. If I want cheap clothes for my kids, which I do, I'll go with hand me downs from neighbors, or failing that, Salvation Fricking Army.

I'm not rich. But I have standards. I'm not lining the wallets of the four or five richest heirs in the world. Screw it, I'll sew my own damn clothes if it comes to that.

Sorry, I just hate that goddamn store.

[DainBramaged]

50. AND THEY BUY DIPLOMAS, outsource the work

fucking asswipes. Ain't an honest one amongst any of the Waltons, not one.