Bush to pardon 22 indictees (& himself) ?

[savemefromdumbya]

debate at the coffee shop this morning. What happens if the 22 are indicted - does Bush fire Fitzgerald? What does the Attorney General do? Does Bush try to pardon the indictees and himself?

[LSparkle]

1. Like father, like son -- just like Iran-Contra, he'll pardon 'em

[TallahasseeGrannie]

3. Remind me

who he pardoned in Iran Contra? I wasn't paying a lot of attention. I need a history lesson!

[Walt Starr]

8. Casper Weinberger and five others

Besides him, Elliott Abrams, Robert McFarlane, Duane Clarridge, Alan Fiers, and Clair George

[sinkingfeeling]

10. Here's that info for you......

Bush's last controversial act in office was his pardon of six former government employees implicated in the Iran-Contra scandal on December 24, 1992, most prominently former Secretary of Defense Caspar Weinberger. Bush pardoned Duane R. Clarridge, Clair E. George, Robert C. McFarlane, Elliott Abrams, and Alan G. Fiers Jr., all of whom had been indicted and/or convicted of charges by the Independent Counsel.

[Ouabache]

18. ah yes the Christmas Eve pardon

surely you saw that in your newspaper on Christmas Day.

[FloridaPat]

11. All the big players except Reagan & himself. Don't remember the

names myself, but most of the people around * are those involved in all the illegal activities of Reagan/Bush.

[MidwestTransplant]

13. If you pardon everybody that can implicate you,

you basically pardoned yourself.

[kurth]

16. Defense Secretary Caspar Weinberger was one

Washington -- President Bush December 24 granted pardons to former Defense Secretary Caspar Weinberger and five other individuals for their conduct related to the Iran-Contra affair. Bush said Weinberger - who had been scheduled to go on trial in Washington January 5 on charges related to Iran-Contra - was a "true American patriot"... The president also pardoned five other persons who already had pleaded guilty or had been indicted or convicted in connection with the Iran-Contra arms-for-hostages investigation. They were Elliott Abrams, a former assistant secretary of state for Inter-American affairs; former National Security Adviser Robert McFarlane; and Duane Clarridge, Alan Fiers, and Clair George, all former employees of the Central Intelligence Agency...

[longship]

17. Bush Sr pardoned Casper Weinberger

for things that occurred during the *previous* administration.

It would be an entirely different matter if Chimp pardoned people who committed crimes in *his own* administration.

Many would blur the distinction, but I assure you Congress and the public will not. They were very uncomfortable with the Bush Sr. pardons. If Chimp pardons his own people, there will be a nationwide cry for an end to Chimp and a lawless administration.

[silverweb]

2. Can he pardon someone who has not yet been convicted?

:shrug:

[Bunny]

6. Ask Gerald Ford.

[savemefromdumbya]

7. I guess we may never hear the convictions?

but at the coffee shop this person said they Grand Jury had met and but indicted 22 Bush was to pardon straight away. I'm not sure where they got that info from as there is so much going around inside the beltway.

[Walt Starr]

9. His daddy did

So he can, too.

His Daddy only pardoned six criminals, so Bush will even get to beat his daddy at that.

[onenote]

4. Not gonna pardon anyone right away

First of all, he's not going to "pardon" himself because he isn't going to be indicted. You can bet the world on that.

Second, whether there is one indictee or 22, he's not going to pardon anyone at this stage. Pardoning them now would create a political firestorm that the repugs couldn't withstand, both in terms of subverting the judicial process and in terms of implying that everyone's guilty.

If -- and its an enormous if -- trials are held and convictions are obtained -- before he leaves office, he might pardon folks as he walks out the door (i.e. after the 2008 elections). Not a minute sooner.

onenote

[savemefromdumbya]

12. they are not frightenend of political firestorms

basically they don't fear the Democrats and think they may say - "Oh well" just like before the Iraq war?

[longship]

20. I think that they very much fear the situation.

Pardons likely would turn the whole thing upside-down for them. These guys are not stupid. They know unequivocally that pardoning themselves would indeed create a firestorm.

[onenote]

27. if by "They" you mean the WH, maybe. But Repugs on the Hill

are scared shitless about keeping their jobs, let alone their majority and they will put enormous pressure on the WH not to do anything to create a firestorm before election day. Bank on it.

onenote

[i_c_a_White_Ghost]

14. I agree with you n/t

[kurth]

That is a certainty

Nothing "bad" will ever happen to anyone indicted. Dubya will take care of everything.

[Skidmore]

5. Now we know why he's been saving his pardon quota up.

[savemefromdumbya]

15. has he got 22 (23) left?

I wonder?

[onenote]

26. there is no limit on the number of pardons a prez can issue

but he's not pardoning anyone right away...

onenote

[savemefromdumbya]

19. If Bush was indicted could he pardon himself though?

The POTUS can be indicted but pardoning himself hmmmm?

[longship]

23. Constitution puts no limit on Presidential pardon.

But....

Chimp: "I pardon myself."

Congress: "You're impeached."
Senate: "You're history."

[savemefromdumbya]

24. so if he pardons himself Congress won't dare to impeach him?

however, the GOP are spilting at the seams at the moment

[longship]

28. I don't understand.

if he pardons himself Congress won't dare to impeach him?

I do not know how you come to this conclusion.

My opinion is precisely the opposite of this. If he pardons now he will be in big, big trouble for it. Abuse of power and all that.

Is your opinion different? If so, that's cool. We'll have to see what happens. Any way you put it, pardons would be bad news all around.

[onenote]

25. Bush can't be indicted

The Office of Legislative Counsel of the Department of Justice has opined on this twice, once in 1973 (when Nixon was prez) and again in 2000 (while Clinton was prez). I know its just an opinion of the OLC to the Attorney General but I guarantee that no prosecutor is going to go against that opinion.

http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/sitting_president.htm

onenote

[Alcibiades]

33. Procedurally, impeachment and pardon

are distinct. The Congress' power to impeach and try is completely independent of the president's ability to pardon. So, yes, while Bush can absolutely free himself from any criminal penalties via the pardon, the Congress still retains the authority under the Constitution to remove him from office.

That's my understanding of it, anyway.

[Ouabache]

21. And then Jebthro will hire them all into his admin when he is prez

just like Jr. hired all of his Poppy's pardonees.

Now what would happen if Hillary Clinton became prez and hired everyone that Bill pardoned ?

[melody]

22. Poppy did, but it helped him have even lower poll numbers

I guess the Sprog has to beat out his old man at everything, even being the worst (as if he hadn't already).

[moondust]

29. Delete.

[savemefromdumbya]

30. and now Plame intends to sue WH officials

this is really getting juicy

[anitar1]

31. I hope they win mega millions. The only thing

these crooks know is $$$$$$.

[StefanX]

32. Go ahead, pardon 'em all Georgie

You'll go down as the first president in history who was PRO-TREASON.

Then maybe Ann Coulter can write a book about you.