Is PETA guilty of extremism in going after Missouri puppy mill?

[Karmadillo]

Link to newspaper article follows.

http://www.peta.org/mc/NewsItem.asp?id=7310

Jefferson City, Mo. — This morning, PETA fired off a letter to Missouri Gov. Matt Blunt, calling on him to reconsider his enthusiastic support for a massive new puppy-distribution center that was recently completed by the Hunte Corporation in Goodman. PETA points out that Hunte has been cited on more than one occasion for violations of the minimal space and enclosure provisions of the federal Animal Welfare Act. After receiving a steady stream of complaints about Hunte for more than a decade, PETA has recently been deluged with calls from Missouri residents who are outraged over the governor’s accolades for a company that has caused suffering and misery for hundreds of thousands of dogs and their offspring.

Hunte has dealt extensively with commercial puppy mill breeders—many of which have failed to comply with the U.S. Department of Agriculture’s (USDA) minimal standards. Hunte also allowed one breeder—whose USDA license was revoked after he abandoned nearly 150 dogs to die in an overheated truck—to remain in charge of that kennel after Hunte purchased it. The same man, Douglas Alan Hughes, now serves as Hunte’s director of new breeder business development. In the same article that quoted the governor’s accolades for Hunte, the company’s founder stated that 10 percent—an estimated 8,000 animals—of the puppies who the company receives are so genetically defective or sick that pet stores reject them.

Sick puppies aren’t the only victims of commercial breeders. Puppy mills are notorious for their continuous breeding of female dogs, who are often denied vital veterinary care and are killed at about 6 or 7 years of age when their bodies give out. PETA’s undercover video exposé, narrated by actor Charlize Theron, shows breeding dogs who are driven mad by confinement and are frantically pacing or spinning in their tiny cages, which are devoid of bedding and offer little protection from the elements. PETA also points out that because millions of healthy, loving animals—including purebreds—are killed in shelters every year because they are unwanted, breeding more dogs just exacerbates the overpopulation crisis.

"Hunte Corporation is a living hell for dogs and puppies, yet Gov. Blunt practically tripped over himself heaping praise on the company," says PETA Director Daphna Nachminovitch. "Four million unwanted animals are killed in U.S. shelters every year. By supporting commercial breeders such as Hunte instead of encouraging people to visit a shelter, the governor is issuing a ‘death sentence’ for dogs across the country who are waiting to be adopted."

PETA’s letter to Gov. Blunt is available upon request. For more information about the seedy and cruel puppy mill business, please visit HelpingAnimals.com.

http://www.joplinglobe.com/story.php?story_id=208945&c=87

GOODMAN, Mo. - Goodman's largest employer has more than quadrupled its space and added nearly 100 jobs to its payroll.

The expansion of Hunte Corp. includes a state-of-the-art distribution operation where puppies brought in by breeders are evaluated and accepted or rejected. It also includes a pet product manufacturing site, a professional breeder supply center and a retail pet store - open to the public - where puppies, ferrets, birds, pet supplies and pet food are sold.

Gov. Matt Blunt wielded the scissors for the ribbon-cutting ceremony Wednesday as Andrew Hunte, his wife, Gina, his family and dozens of employees looked on for the dedication of the 100,000-square-foot expansion.

"I want to assure you there is not another facility like this in the pet industry and not another like it in the world," Andrew Hunte said. "My wife and I have made a major commitment to this part of the country, and we want to do our best to make Missouri a better state and a world leader in providing quality pets."

more...

[aquart]

1. I'm not sure you CAN be too extreme about a puppy mill.

[donsu]

59. agree!! go PETA get those rotten puppy mills

nt

[tocqueville]

2. the only way to stop this horror

is to film it and put in on the internet

[justiceischeap]

3. NOT GUILTY!

There are nearly eight million animals euthanized yearly in America, because shelters can't find homes for them. The totals aren't in for home many animals were left homeless after Katrina and Rita (and now possibly Wilma).

So yeah, let's call PETA extremists because 8 million animals are killed yearly because there aren't enough homes for the animals already alive and in need of homes. Let's call PETA extremists because they want someone held accountable for neglecting the animals they are breeding and killing from neglect. <end sarcasm>

Most animals breed and born in puppy mills are the very animals that end up being euthanized because they are bred so badly. Puppy mill breeding tends to create animals with severe and expensive life-long health problems and emotional/behaviour problems.

I think PETA and everyone else who loves animals should be up in arms about this.

[The Stranger]

4. PETA is TOO EXTREME! PETA is a BUNCH of KOOKS!

I am a Progressive and I support animal rights but I am against PETA. THEY ARE TOO EXTREME! THEY MUST BE STOPPED! WHAT ABOUT THE CHILDREN?

:sarcasm:

(How'd I do?)

[Beaverhausen]

6. LOL!

Good one! :woohoo:

[nvliberal]

21. Not very well, unfortunately.

PETA ain't an animal welfare organization.

[zanne]

96. OK, nvliberal--You define PETA for us.

Since you seem to know all about PETA, what it stands for and what it's policies are, TELL US. Don't just ape what others are saying because it's what you want to hear. Give us some knowledge about why puppy mills should be allowed to exist unencumbered by people with consciences.

[China_cat]

5. Do you have any idea of how long rescue

groups have been trying to get PETA involved in shutting down Hunte corporation and had them tell us that it wasn't part of their 'mission'?

My Dot is 8 years old now and we were working on it before her sire and dam were old enough to be OFA'd.

Somebody must be close to actually doing something about them for PETA to jump in now. We'll have done the work and paid the bills and rehabilitated the rescued animals and they'll take the credit.

[The Stranger]

8. BUT PETA HATES ANIMALS!

EVERYBODY knows THAT! THEY ACTUALLY HATE ANIMALS! Didn't you KNOW this? They even supported EUTHANIZING an animal one time somewhere -- I saw it on Fox News!

:sarcasm:

(C'mon, tell me -- how'd I do?)

[China_cat]

10. Well, what one of their board members

actually said was 'actually, we don't even like animals'...speaking for himself and his wife.

So you aren't far off.

[The Stranger]

12. OF COURSE -- NO ONE AT PETA LIKES ANIMALS

You are SO RIGHT! I am so sure someone there said that. They are actually AGAINST animals -- don't you know?

THAT they devote so much time and endure so much vitriol is because they really HATE animals!

I'M SO GLAD SOMEONE AGREES WITH ME!

Thanks, China_cat!

[China_cat]

13. I think I'll see if I can find

you in my files. Yep, there you are.

[The Stranger]

15. I'm looking good these days!

But I appear to need some dental work, a nail clipper, and a dermatologist.

[zanne]

97. China--cat: WHO said that?

It sounds like you're flying off the handle without even bothering to supply some facts. If you're going to smear, please be decent enough to give us a link, for chrissake!

[proud2BlibKansan]

29. There were a couple PETA guys caught

killing dogs and throwing them in trash cans in NC or SC a few months ago.

[zanne]

98. LINK, please.

There are all kinds of rumors and gossip going around about PETA. Some people, (I'm not saying you, but SOME people), like to say things like that because it's very shocking and it catches everyone's attention, but that doesn't mean it's TRUE). So please take the time to be responsible for your "facts" and give us a link to them.

[Unstable Mabel]

103. Here's your link...

http://www.wral.com/news/5102048/detail.html

[zanne]

105. Thank you for that.

I'm sure that eventually, when these cases are solved, we'll find out what really happened. Until then, though, innocent until proven guilty.

[LisaL]

50. Get a clue. They support euthanasia, and not just

"an animal at one time somewhere". Not only that, couple of their members got caught killing cats and dogs and dumping the bodies into a dumpster.

[zanne]

99. LINK, please.

You're the second person to post on this thread about PETA members killing dogs and cats and throwing them away. Where did you hear this and do know if it actually happened? Please, people! Can we have some FACTS? Or maybe a LINK? Why should we believe YOU?

[Karmadillo]

40. If it's not part of their mission, why did they conduct an undercover

investigation at Nielson Farms, a puppy mill, in 1999? Sounds like PETA has been concerned about puppy mills for some time.

http://www.peta.org/factsheet/files/FactsheetDisplay.asp?ID=45

<edit>

Young puppies who survive the unsanitary conditions at puppy mills and grueling transport to pet stores rarely get the kind of loving human contact that is necessary for them to become suitable companions. By not spending money for proper food, housing, or veterinary care, breeders, brokers, and pet stores ensure maximum profits.

Conditions don’t improve much when puppies reach pet stores. Dogs who are kept in small cages without exercise, love, or human contact tend to develop undesirable behaviors and may bark excessively or become destructive and unsociable. Unlike humane societies and shelters, pet stores do not screen buyers or inspect the future homes of the dogs they sell. Poor enforcement of humane laws allows shops to continue selling sick animals, although humane societies and police departments sometimes succeed in closing down stores where severe abuse is uncovered.

Farms and Brokers Do Big Business

In 1999, PETA conducted an undercover investigation at Nielsen Farms, a Kansas puppy mill. The dogs at Nielsen Farms had no bedding or protection from cold or heat. Some were suffering from untreated wounds, ear infections, and abscessed feet, and confinement and loneliness had caused some mother dogs to go mad. PETA’s investigator witnessed one inspection by the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA), during which the officer glanced at the cages but did not examine the dogs. Our investigation led to the Kansas facility’s closing and a $20,000 fine from the USDA. The Nielsens are also “permanently disqualified from being licensed” by the USDA.(7)

There are thousands of breeders and dealers across the country—in Missouri alone there are an estimated 3,000 dog-breeding operations that generate $2 billion a year.(8) The nation’s largest puppy broker is the Hunte Corporation in Missouri, which also exports dogs overseas.(9) The company has been linked to numerous negligent pet stores and breeders and has sponsored American Kennel Club (AKC) meetings.(10) The USDA has loaned the company more than $4 million for expansion and upgrades in the last three years—taxpayer money used to bring more misery to dogs and puppies.(11)

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[China_cat]

43. This is exactly what I mean.

Their 'undercover' operation consisted solely of taking a few pictures and the credit for what local rescue groups had actually done. Their full expenditure for that one was less than $100. Check their financials. And not the ones on their website, either. As a non-profit, they are required to make their finances public so check it out on one of the charity watchdogs.

Out of the $29 MILLION they are sitting on, they refused any money to help with the vet bills and rehabilitation of the animals. But they'll use it to garner more donations.

My former vet (she retired or she'd still be my vet) just got back from New Orleans where she worked with the animals there. She had some things to say about people who get sucked into believing that PETA helps. The PETA people who were 'sent' to help in the rescue efforts were given no financial help by the organization they represented. Outside of paying their own expenses, they were required to supply their own crates, animal food, water, and other supplies. While one single individual hired a whole plane and got over 200 animals out of the area, PETA only rescued (brought to the local shelter and dumped) 50 animals in 14 days.

PETA lies through their teeth. Their organization is for the aggrandizement and financial enrichment of their board and nothing else.

[Karmadillo]

45. Nice if you had a link or two

It's difficult to assess the accuracy of your statements.

1. Google indicates PETA claims to have rescued several hundred animals, not "50 animals in 14 days." Given the difficult conditions rescuers faced, several hundred seems like a fairly good job. Where does your count come from?

2. Is PETA really "sitting" on $29 million? What financials (month, line item etc) are you referring to?

3. First you indicate PETA has no interest in shutting down puppy mills. Then when it's clear they've had at least some interest in doing this, you claim they stole credit. From whom? Which rescue groups did the real work (names etc.)? Surely one must have published something (maybe even on the internet with a working link) critical of PETA's glomming on to their work and taking all the credit. You also noted they spent only $100 in the whole campaign. Where did you get that number?

4. If PETA lies through their teeth, please provide at least a few links to back up what you say.

If your account is accurate, many of us here at DU have certainly been misled. Unfortunately, you've provided little in the way of documentation. If PETA board members were actually enriching themselves while the organization neglected its mission, I imagine there are a fair number of wingnut corporate groups who would rush to publicize the fact. And I don't think they would be shy about putting their documentation on the internet.

[zanne]

100. Good for you,Karmadillo!

It's about time we call people on where they get their facts and make sure they provide LINKS to prove that what they're saying is true and not some catchy phrase Rush Limbaugh thought up.

[justiceischeap]

81. Lies! Lies! Lies!

I'm sick of all this heresay. Obviously China Cat, you were NOT there but I was. I am one of those PETA people you are spreading lies about.

We rescued and brought to the shelter over 300 animals. We transported over 30 animals to Norfolk (I helped load them into the RV) and have fostered them and are still fostering them (I see one every day, her name is NOLA--she visits my desk often). I just got back from a trip Tuesday to New Orleans to reunite 3 dogs with their families.

As far as the claims that there was no financial help from PETA, I won't even go into that BS but that is yet another lie. Of course, PETA didn't pay for my Starbuck's, damn them!!!! Other than the Starbuck's, nothing came out of my own pocket.

Maybe your vet didn't inform you that all carriers were provided by LASPCA & HSUS, who were in charge of the operation, not PETA. In the mornings, before going into the field for 12 hours or longer, you would pull up to the area where carriers were provided and put them in your vans. You would then grab food that was donated and throw that into the van, then you would put donated water into the vans. There was no need to provide your own carriers, food or water, it was all available at Lamar-Dixon, where PETA was working from.

Sounds to me your vet is a PETA hater who doesn't have her facts straight. I mean hell, we brought in over 50 animals in one day. All animals were being staged in Gonzales, LA, those were the rules, period. This is not "dumping the animals." This is following the rules put in place by LASPCA and HSUS. Maybe your vet neglected to inform you what it was like trying to rescue animals who didn't trust people, who were starving and thirsty and had been abandoned repeatedly. Maybe your vet didn't inform you that the PETA rescuers would spend up to two hours regaining that animals' trust so he or she could be saved.

Feel how you will about PETA but I'd say get your facts straight before spreading lies. You want to know what PETA did down there, visit HelpingAnimals.com and listen to the phone reports on the 14 days worth of rescues.

[yewberry]

82. Thanks for working hard to help.

It's really, really appreciated.

[WhollyHeretic]

91. Thank you for the first hand account and your wonderful work. n/t

[Catchawave]

102. Thanks for all you did !

I remember you sharing your story on DU awhile back. :hug:

[Catchawave]

101. Strengthening laws shut down puppy mills

not just one organization. Some states just require basic shelter, food, water and somewhat clean conditions, which mills won't spend one more cent improving because it cuts into their profits.

We've tried to get laws passed that would limit how often a female can be bred, but the Breeding Lobby (and AKC) scream NO FAIR :shrug:

Google The Pet Animal Welfare Statute of 2005, and you'll see alot of whining, by people and organizations who call themselves "responsible" breeders.

How dare PETA interfere with their right to breed :sarcasm:

[Coventina]

7. PETA is dead right about this issue. Puppy mills are an abomination.

I'll say it again: Puppy mills are an abomination.

[China_cat]

11. They are. No doubt about it.

But I really resent the tactic of PETA waiting until others have spent the money and done the work to shut one down and then they come in and take a few pictures and the credit for 'saving' all these animals.

They won't tell you about the breeders...good breeders...who boycotted show judges that support and praise Hunte corporation or who have been working to form a new association or register with the CKC instead of the AKC because the AKC will rarely take action against a puppy mill as long as they're getting their registration fees.

And they won't tell you about the people who have put the pet stores that sold puppies and kittens out of business and taken away the outlets for the milled puppies. (Charleston no longer has ANY pet store that sells dogs or cats because of this)

You can damned well believe we got no help with our efforts or financing from PETA, even though we practically begged them for help.

[flvegan]

35. What credit?

I've done countless protests against the local Petland (etc) here, and PETA has always sent me whatever I wanted. Never asked for credit. I don't see where they're taking any.

Besides, credit be damned. If PETA wants to jump the anti-puppymill bandwagon, that's fine with me. Regardless of what I've spent in my rescue, regardless of my time, I can't reach the millions that they will. I'll give them the damn credit, cuz all I care about are those animals.

Even the bigs in this campaign, Hearts United, Kim Townsend...they'll never match PETA for getting the word out, though I love and support their efforts 150%...

[nvliberal]

22. So what? Any thinking human being thinks they are.

It doesn't change the fact PETA is an abomination and a disgrace to animal welfare.

[xchrom]

9. not to me.

but i don't have a lot of probs with peta period

[shance]

14. Have you ever been to a puppy mill?

Have you ever seen pictures from puppy mills?

Take the time to look into it and you'll see why the mills and I mean MILLS need to be shut down.

Slaughterhouses could honestly be a synonym for many of them. Its an existence that should not be. Animals are products to either be sold or killed, and are treated as such.

Hundreds of dogs and cats are crammed together and placed on top of each other on shelves in crates and literally live in the dark most of their time at these mills.

In short, it is not a humane, decent thing or a humane, decent way to earn money.

It is cruel and it is wrong, however I think we have to look at a system overall where people have had to resort to making such a living. Certainly much of it is out of economic desperation. At some point we have to look at our capitalistic system and what it has created. If we don't we will continue to see more desperate times and with that more desperate measures such as these mills.

[friesianrider]

38. You're absolutely right shance...

Slaughterhouses are what come to my mind, too. They are absolutely deplorable.

I wish more people knew that when you buy from pet shops, you're supporting puppy mills (and irresponsible, money hungry breeders at best).

[Spinzonner]

16. Well,, remember what Barry Goldwater said

[PaulaFarrell]

18. yeah, what was that?

I forget...

[MadAsHellNewYorker]

19. extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice

extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice, moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue

[MadAsHellNewYorker]

17. What extremism?

Am I missing something in this post? Seriously...where is the extreme actions of PETA? Writing a letter?

:eyes:

[Beaverhausen]

20. What I think...

...is the thread starter was being sarcastic.

Sometimes here on DU, PETA's actions are called "extreme." Lots of opinions about PETA on all sides.

I'm a supporter. Glad to see them get in this fight with the puppy mills.

[MadAsHellNewYorker]

23. I hope you are right

because the sarcasm was lost on me. Im usually pretty in tune with jokes and satire, but this pissed me off. I thought it was another of the bash PETA threads. Sorry if I missunderstood.

and I support there actions (even the less popular ones) as well :hi:

[Neecy]

24. Here's a reason to fight the puppy mills...

This is Guido - he's a six year old Pomeranian puppy mill rescue. I've had him for a little over three weeks.



Guido was so matted when he left the mill he had to be shaved, most of his teeth had to be pulled, and the little guy had never played with toys. I had to show him how to play (and now he loves his toys - he flips them all over the house). He's deathly afraid of visitors but I'm working with him to make him feel safe.

He's a bright, lively and sweet little dog who has spent most of his six years in a cage. He had no idea what to do at first in a fenced-in yard - he was actually afraid of grass.

These puppy mill people need to be stopped from their crimes, and if PETA assists in those efforts I say - more power to them. The horror stories of how these dogs are treated are just blood-curdling.

[shance]

28. Thank you Neecy for sharing your experience and

your sweet friend Guido and his story.

It's individuals like you who give our furry friends a safe haven and hope.

Thank you. (I have a rescue too. A fourteen year old Golden retriever).

[Neecy]

48. it's a challenge, but well worth the effort

My other dog (he's in the photo behind Guido) was from a shelter, and he was very well socialized when I got him - housetrained, friendly, well-adjusted. Most (but not all) shelter dogs can be easily transitioned into your home.

Puppy mill dogs are almost feral. They've had very little human contact (and what they've had is usually frightening to them), no training, and a host of psychological issues. For all the work it takes to socialize a puppy mill rescue, it's well worth it. Just seeing Guido play for probably the first time, or chasing squirrels in his own yard, or snoozing in his own snuggle ball bed instead of in a wire cage makes every bit of effort worth it. I guess I'm lucky because he's made so much progress so quickly, and I know that isn't the case with many mill dogs.

The rescue people who work so tirelessly for these little guys will always have my respect. I've learned a lot in my journey with Guido about how these mills operate and just how many people are working to change the laws that govern them - what selfless and terrific people those in rescue are.

[shance]

61. Im sure it has been. Your experience and what you've posted

here provides a window by which people can begin to take a look into a very sad and money-driven business that thrives and exists by abusing animals due to sheer volume they need to continue to sell.

Very sad and I appreciate your posts very much.

[The Stranger]

25. Kick and recommend for greatest.

[XemaSab]

26. PETA for the most part does good work.

Puppy mills are an abomination.

And I'll even go so far as to say that the concept of "purebred" animals is a really twisted concept, when you get down to it. It's just like the Nazi twins in another thread :eyes: It's about a concept of racial purity that does nothing but lead to inbreeding and dogs so genetically weak that they're constantly suffering.

Both my aunt and my grandma had toy poodles, and between those two dogs they had knees that would spontaneously dislocate, hip problems, bad teeth, epilepsy that required that the dog be on valium constantly for 8 years, diabetes that required shots 3x a day, a back problem that required a $2000 surgery, and a disease that made all the dog's hair fall out.

Both of those animals were constantly suffering throughout their whole lives. The breeders don't care because they're making 400+ dollars on each puppy that they get rid of before these problems manifest themselves. The AKC doesn't care because they're getting paid, and they're the master eugenicists behind this purebred crap. And dog owners buy into the idea that they can know how a dog will turn out, what its personality will be and what it will look like.

I'd never get a purebred dog.

Why pay hundreds of dollars up front and thousands more in vet bills when you can get a mixed breed or rescued dog just as loyal and loving for free or from the pound?

[cynatnite]

27. What's a puppy mill?

My sister breeds dogs and has for many years. I was talking about this with her earlier and she said you never get the same definition. People view them differently.

She's been told she runs one. She'd disagree. She's certified by both the state and the USDA, all the dogs are well taken care of by her and two vets she uses, she also has what she calls an exercise yard for the dogs. She has a well maintained kennel that she has spent years upgrading from the small shack it used to be. She's very proud of the progress she's made over the years and prides herself on how well she takes care of the dogs.

She is also very careful in who she sells to because her greatest fear is handing a puppy over to someone who will treat it badly.

A new law which is being lobbied by a group called PAWS will require any breeder to be USDA certified. It will also ban internet sales of animals unless they are USDA certified. My sister is very hopeful this passes.

There have been some bad breeders out there who only care about the money they make. My sister sees red when she hears horror stories and she hates it when some consider what she has as a puppy mill because she doesn't believe it's so.

My sister is in total opposite of me. I'm not an animal person and never have been. Her on the other hand is an avid animal lover. She drove our parents crazy for bringing home strays and lost animals she came across. She now owns a large farm that I call her zoo. She's got cattle, horses, chickens, pigs, goats, cats, dogs and birds. Her and her husband would probably be the ideal ones to build an ark should there be a flood. They're both just alike.

Anyway, I'm curious what others think.

[Neecy]

31. My definition...

There's a puppy mill near me that a local rescue group is trying to either shut down or, as you noted, upgrade their facilities to allow for humane treatment of the dogs.

They aren't 'specialty' breeders - they have 5 or 6 different breeds (which, to me, is a prime sign of a miller). The dogs are kept in a metal shed, NO outdoor run facilities, and in the summer they simply put a couple of fans inside the shed - like that would help in 100 degree heat in a METAL shed. They have a single wood-burning stove to keep the 75 or so dogs inside warm. The millers don't even live near the shed - they visit it twice a day to feed and breed the dogs. They're left alone at all other times - really nice for social animals like dogs.

THAT is a puppy mill. All breeders don't operate mills - in fact, there are some that are very resposible. But if your sister is raising and breeding more than one breed, in numbers greater than would allow for human interaction, then I'd say it's a mill. From your description, though, it's probably not. A sure sign of a miller is that they view their animals as only breeding stock and your sister seems to care more for her dogs than that.

[cynatnite]

32. I think she has two breeds...

I can't remember what they are. Dogs are dogs to me. :)

When I think of puppy mills, I think of bad living conditions and neglect.

I don't know how many she has. I think it's quite a few because she has her daughter and her mother-in-law helping her. She had a phone installed in the kennel because she spends a lot of time out there.

I know for a fact she cares because she'll call and cry about a sick animal or losing one. She still keeps doing it because she loves it and doesn't make all that much money. She puts a lot of it back into the kennel and the dogs.

[Craig3410]

36. Then, no, it's not a puppy mill.

Puppy mills consider their dogs as nothing more than stock to bred and sold. It seems to me like she really loves her dogs.

[friesianrider]

39. *Usually* being "USDA certified" indicates a puppy mill...

However, it doesn't always mean a puppy mill. Any breeder that breeds more than two breeds of dogs or that ever has more than two litters available is usually suspect to me.

Any reputable breeder will thoroughly and completely screen potential buyers. IMHO, a truly reputable breeder won't even breed two dogs until they have all the puppies sold to good homes that have been thoroughly checked out through vet and personal references and had personal home inspections. I have a friend who breeds Jack Russell puppies, and she breeds once a year and will not breed until she has homes for all puppies. She's been showing the breed for 16 years, and she has a 5 page application to get one of her dogs, and she personally visits the home of each applicant, requires two vet references and three personal references. She tests and retests her breeding dogs (and she only has 4) for any health or behavioral defects, and limits her females to only three litters in their lifetime (and no more than 1 litter per 18 months).

As far as I'm concerned, anything less than this is an irresponsible breeder. But, check out www.nopuppymills.com for more info...good for you though for wanting to be informed - puppy mills are a horrible problem today. Since all pets in pet shops come from irresponsible breeders or puppy mills, it becomes more widespread than most people realize :)

[cynatnite]

41. My sister does two different breeds...

I don't know what they are. I do know they are her favorites. She tests all her dogs for a variety of things and has a vet examine all of them, too. The mom's she is very careful with. I don't know the details, but she takes extra care of them because she knows how much work they are doing.

She does screen all of her potential buyers. I don't know how she does that, but she has a process from what she's said. Her biggest fear has always been giving an innocent puppy to someone who wouldn't properly care for it. She does followup with the puppy and owner. Some of them have become good friends of hers.

She considered getting into cat breeding after buying one from a friend of hers, but she's got her hands full as it is and didn't feel she could give them the kind of care they deserved.

My sister has said for years pet shops are the last place a person should by a pet from. Considering how long she's been at this, 12 or 13 years I think, I take her word.

She's the one that's educated me and if I ever do become a pet person, I'll buy from her :)

[friesianrider]

42. It sounds like...

She may possibly have a few too many dogs, but the health and welfare of the dogs (and finding good, lifelong homes for the puppies) is obviously the main concern. Most people who are breeding irresponsibly (like my one idiot relative UGH) just take two dogs who are usually from pet stores to begin with, breed them, and take an ad out in the paper or post a flyer in the supermarket or sell the puppies to anyone with the money for them or whatever. It doesn't sound like she's a puppy mill...maybe just a few too many dogs at worst. Breeders who have a lot of dogs usually are people who are breeding more dogs they can sell and they end up keeping the "surplus" and end up with a lot of dogs. Again, it doesn't sound like she's anywhere near the level of a puppy mill or anything, but maybe she is just breeding a little too much. But who knows - I don't really know so shouldn't even really comment...I hope I haven't offended you or anything :)

I'm in rescue, so am sort of morally opposed to breeding dogs (and especially cats, that to me personally is really wrong) - hence my bias :) I just always believed that we should find homes for the ones we have before we go making more - especially since approximately 1 in 4 dogs/cats in shelters and rescue groups are purebreds. So if you ever become a pet person and are ready to have your own furbaby (be careful though - they're addictive!), you may want to consider adoption first. If you ever want to get a pet, you can check out www.petfinder.com and they have dozens and dozens of purebred dogs and puppies and cats and kittens who are in need of a loving home. I am sure you can even search for a particular breed and if for some reason there isn't one listed if you wait a few weeks one will come up. Unfortunately so many people take their "throw away" mentality to animals too - you'd be amazed how many people drop $1,800 for a purebred dog and then dump it in a shelter a few months later for the dumbest reasons.

Anywho - I'm going off my rant now lol :) Good luck should you ever decide to get a pet! :hi:

[Mythsaje]

64. You can also identify a responsible breeder

for their willingness to take back one of their dogs if there is an issue with the purchaser and the home, or a problem with the dog. A lot of the animals we get in rescue are the product of puppy mills or backyard breeders who will NOT take their dogs back when there's an issue.

[TorchTheWitch]

47. My take on breeders

There are responsible breeders and irresponsible breeders... you just have to be careful to check out what's available to find the best one. The best breeders focus on improvement of the breed, and show their dogs. They also keep the number of their dogs to a minimum, use studs outside of their own line only from other responsible breeders, and only produce a few litters a year. They generally keep the best pup out of every litter for breeding or showing, and only allow their bitches to produce a few litters in the lifetimes of those bitches. They won't go near inbreeding, and are proud of the long pedigrees of their dogs instead of trying to hide them from buyers or only allowing the buyer to see a pedigree going back a few generations.

No responsible breeder will allow their pups to go to mills or pet stores, and are incredibly picky about the quality of their buyers... they won't sell their pups to anyone that merely looks ok and can cut them a check that won't bounce. Many will want to see the environment one of their pups will live in, and put you through a grueling interview and background check to see if you're worthy of one of their pups. Once you've been approved and buy a pup, most will want to hear from you periodically throughout the dog's life to see how the dog is doing and see photos.

My first Akita was a puppy mill rescue. He had so many health problems all his life and cost me a fortune in vet bills, but I wouldn't have traded him for anything. He was a purebred, but he was an inbreed. To this day, I'd like to get my hands around the throats of the evil, irresponsible, money-grubbing breeders that produced him. He finally died an old man almost a year ago, but he lived a long and happy life with me despite all his health issues.

Since I couldn't bear to live without a big wonderful Akita dog, I got another last summer... and it was a long wait. Since I didn't want to go through all of the health issues I did with my first Akita (and I was lucky that my first lived as long as he did with all his problems), this time I went to an excellent breeder after doing a LOT of homework to find the best one that wasn't too far away (although they were in another state).

My new little boo-boo is wonderful in every way, and the picture of health (although he sure won't be little for very long). My vet said he rated outstanding in all his health tests and that he's the best Akita he's ever seen in his 20 or so years of practice.

I applaud those people who adopt shelter dogs and especially those that adopt rescues. Since I wanted a specific breed of dog who would most likely have a minimum of health or behavioral issues, and would be more likely to live with me for a long time, I opted this time for a responsible breeder. One of the very beautiful things about those people that get shelter or rescue dogs is that they are willing to face whatever health or behavioral issues that may crop up in the future, and with shelter/rescue dogs, it's a crap shoot on what you will have to deal with down the road... and God bless those marvelous people who adopt dogs that they already know are going to have issues or because of their age, only have a few more years left to live in a loving home.

I'd love to be able to foster rescues, but I know myself well, and there is no way on this earth that I can live with a dog even for a short time and then give him up to whoever adopts them. I do donate generously and send care packages to my local Akita Rescue and my local shelter, so I won't feel so bad about being too much of a softy to foster.

And just discussing this is getting me all choked up, and I have to run now and go hug my little boo-boo... he'll probably think I'm mental or being excessively mushy-hearted again for waking him up just for a flamboyant hug and belly scritching, but he'll deal with it with good grace. ;)

[Mythsaje]

76. Akitas are great dogs

Introduced to this country by none other than Helen Keller.

We work with their smaller cousins, the Shibas and, to a lesser extent, Jindos from Korea, though we have a house full of breeds. Our next dog, once our two little ones are gone, will probably be an Akita.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

30. Puppy mills are horrid and something has to be done to stop this

inhumane treatment of animals. Not only are the conditions horrific, they breed disease (I've known too many people who bought sick puppies), many of the dogs that are bred in these hell holes lose any of the good characteristics of their breeds, and very often suffer from congenital illnesses...ie hip dysplasia (sp?).

[China_cat]

44. If you really want to help stop it,

help educate people as to what to look for in a breed. The biggest help is to close down the pet stores and take away the outlet, but our rescue groups have also had very good luck with placing newspaper ads that say "Before you buy xxx breed of dog, call us for information on how to make the best choice and obtain a healthy puppy."

No names of breeders or stores to get sued over but a chance to tell people what things are endemic in that breed and what to ask for in the way of health checks on the parents and how to evaluate a breeder.

It's all well and good to march in and seize animals and put people out of business...and it definitely SHOULD be done. But if you don't work to take away the market, the puppy millers just move and start all over again.

You also need to work with your local shelters to make them better places (and Charleston's was a hellhole for a long time so I know they can be changed) and popularize the adoption of the formerly unwanted. Our area has 2 shows that twice a week each feature animals up for adoption and it has worked to get a lot more than those 4 homes. We now have a foster program so fewer animals are needlessly put down. State law was changed so that you cannot adopt an intact animal from the shelters. (Puppy millers sometimes look for purebreds in the shelters to use as breeding stock for 'breeds' like cock-a-poos that aren't registerable).

[flvegan]

33. No, and if you buy from a pet store, you support puppy mills.

Oh, wait...Fuck you Petland. Just wanted to get that out there.

Nice work again, PETA. Extreme? No.

Oh, almost forgot, Fuck you, Matt Blunt.

[cynatnite]

34. My sister is very anti-pet store...

She's known too many that support what she considers puppy mills. Horrid conditions, neglect and breeding dogs to the point of killing them.

I'm emailing this entire thread to her. I know she'd be interested.

[friesianrider]

37. Your sister is pretty damn smart :)

ALL pet stores support irresponsible breeders at best, and the worst of the worst puppy mills at worst. No way in hell any *rpeutable and responsible* breeder would ever sell their dogs to a pet store where they could not properly screen the potential homes for their dogs. Any breeder who is willing to do such a thing doesn't give much care for where the dogs end up or who they end up with - whoever has got the money is good enough for them.

[nashbridges]

46. Go for adoption fairs

We got a male kitten at a PetSmart adoption fair from a woman (slightly off) who had 50 cats living at her house. We had to go through two interviews, show our house, prove we had food and a litter box, and prove we had a seperate room he could stay in while our two older female cats adjusted to him.

After six months, it was obvious to us that our existing cats weren't ever going to "take" to him, and my Mother In Law's cat had died. The kitten is now living on a 200 acre farm killing pretty much anything smaller than he is and loving life.

But a year after we originally got him, the woman who let us adopt him stopped by for an annual "checkup". When we told her we gave him to our in-laws because he didn't get along with our other cats, she made us drive her to the farm so she could see him in person.

When we got to the farm, he promptly dropped a dead bat on the front porch and meowed at her feet. To quote her, "Looks like he's doing just fine."

That's some dedication! Most of the people I've met from PETA like to protest treatment of animals, but they don't actually DO anything to help out their welfare. Crazy cat lady earned my respect, and she wasn't PETA.

So if you'd like to help out the animal population, hit a PetSmart during an adoption fair and rescue a pet.

[LisaL]

49. There is the problem. It's easier to buy that go trough all this

to get a pet. I don't want the rescuer to be dropping in my house checking on the animals. I don't want to have interviews and show my house to someone. I hope not all Petsmart adoptions are that way because I was planning to adopt a cat there, but no way I am going to go trough all of this.

[nashbridges]

51. It's up to the individual who is providing the cat

Not to worry, the initial "interview" lasted less than 5 minutes. The people providing the animals are just making sure you aren't a pet reseller getting animals for cheap.

Our case was special simply because the woman who owned the kitten before us was, to put it kindly, "batshit crazy." I guess you have to be to house 50 cats for adoption.

They don't care about your house, they only care that the animal is going to a good place. Don't avoid adoption because you think they will judge you. They won't. If you want to help an animal, the PetSmart adoption fairs are the genuine way to go.

[LisaL]

52. Yes, I was never told they are going to show up and inspect my

house, when I asked the clerk on how the adoptions go.

[Mythsaje]

78. We do home inspections on a regular basis

to help place dogs. They're important because we want to see what kind of environment the dog's going to be in...whether there are issues with other animals, whether they have a fenced yard, and whether the adoptees are likely to treat the dog as a member of the family or chain them up in the yard. Suffice to say, if we have any doubts about the home, we don't approve. And that's best for everyone concerned, from the animal to the prospective home. People shouldn't adopt animals they're not capable of dealing with, and animals shouldn't go to homes where they won't get the best treatment possible.

While I can understand your reluctance to allow strangers in your house, usually it's a one-time deal. Once you've been inspected by a rescue agency and approved, you're unlikely to have to undergo the experience again.

[Neecy]

53. it depends on the agency

The Humane Society can require home checks and vet references; many rescue groups do as well. I think this is mainly for dogs, though - if you have a yard, they'll want to check the fence - things like that.

My local animal shelter doesn't do home checks nor do they ask for the vet references. It just depends on who you adopt from, so if you want to avoid what you might feel is intrusive go to your local shelter instead of PetSmart (the Humane Society sponsors a lot of the PetSmart adoptions, so you'll have to agree to their protocols before you adopt).

I didn't mind the home check or the vet references when I got my rescue dog, but everyone is different. I appreciate the fact that they want to ensure the dog is going to a good and safe home. For a cat, though, a home check might seem excessive.

[LisaL]

54. I don't mind the vet references but I don't want people I don't know

snooping around my house.

[Neecy]

55. that's understandable

Go to your local shelter, then. Many shelters are still "kill" shelters where the animals are only kept for a short period of time, and the animals there usually don't get the chance to be highlighted at a PetSmart adoption day (although I do applaud both PetSmart and Petco for helping to place homeless pets).

A great place to start looking is at http://petfinder.com. You can find a cat or kitten locally, and if you look at the shelter information you can see what their adoption requirements are. It's a terrific resource.

[LisaL]

57. The Petsmart next to me has cats from shelters all the time.

I don't think they do home checks.

[Neecy]

58. it's probably different in every city

The PetSmarts around here have their adoption days sponsored by the Humane Society, which has a no-kill policy. Our local shelter, which does have a kill policy, either doesn't have the staffing or the resources to have the mobile adoption days, so the pets that would live anyway - the Humane Society pets - are adopted while the kill shelter just keeps on killin'. Weird, I know.

[nashbridges]

56. Agreed

If they didn't tell you about a home inspection, then there probably won't be one.

For the record, they don't snoop around the whole house, they pretty much just make sure you have a place the animal can go. It weeds out people who will resell the animals.

The only things they cared about when they came to see us were:

1) Litterbox?
2) Cat food?
3) Somewhere for the cat to sleep?

That's it. They don't evaluate your house. They don't care. And most of the time, you won't have a visit anyway. That's up to the person providing the animal for adoption. PetSmart itself doesn't do them, only the people who show up at the adoption fairs.

[Hidden Stillness]

60. Puppy Mills and Pet Shops are a National Disgrace

Puppy mills are a living hell for these animals, considered and treated as products from the beginning to the ends of their lives. Typically, they are in small, uncleaned cages which they are never let out of, no medical care or socialization, and they are bred--over and over and over and over--every moment of their lives, with their health and the health of each succeeding litter declining, until their deaths. They are slaves, and anyone who has ever rescued puppies and dogs from puppy mills will tell you, that they are always sad, listless, and afraid--unsocialized. Pet shops buy from puppy mills, which is why the overpriced animals from pet stores are typically diseased or uncared-for (ear mites, etc.), and why they will tell you nothing about the animal's background. It is a crying shame, a horror--and these humans can Burn in Hell for this!

[NMDemDist2]

62. my big guy came from a puppy mill in Missouri. he has dual hip dysplasia

and genetic thyroid disease. this is not unexpected, I knew he was coming out of a puppy mill when I bought him and knew there would probably be problems, but I brought him home anyway

why???

because when he looked in my eyes that day at the mall, I could only ask "What is my dog doing in that Pet Shop?"

[Mythsaje]

63. I'm not a big fan of PETA,

but, as a long-standing member of the canine rescue community, I absolutely support this action. Puppy mills are plain evil and need to be eliminated entirely.

[mirandapriestly]

74. We got our dog from a rescue place

They got her from the inhumane society the DAY BEFORE she was going to be euthanized. Thanks to people like you and I agree.

[Mythsaje]

75. Thanks so much for supporting rescue

I just wish more people knew about it and did that rather than shopping pet stores and backyard breeders.

[arwalden]

65. Genuine Abuse Is Horrible. But If PETA Is Involved, It's Exaggerated...

... and it's safe to ignore. Move along... nothing to see here. The're up to their usual self-serving opportunism yet again. YAWN~zzzz

[Karmadillo]

66. Safe to ignore? Exaggerated? You have a link, right?

nt

[arwalden]

67. No Link Needed. Peta's Reputation Preceeds Them.

Wolf. Wolf! WOLF!!!!!

[Karmadillo]

68. I kind of figured you had nothing substantive.

nt

[arwalden]

70. I kind of figured you would not see my point.

nt

[Name removed]

71. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[newfaceinhell]

94. Puppy farms are an abomination- the blackest animal cruelty

If you think they are "safe to ignore" just because PETA are criticising them, then any moral compass you may have has completely broken down. But then, loathing directed at PETA does often mask a general contempt for animal life.

[arwalden]

106. Oh Brother!

<< any moral compass you may have has completely broken down >>

That could very likely be considered a personal attack. I've criticized PETA... and in turn, the messenger is personally attacked. Nice. Real nice.

<< But then, loathing directed at PETA does often mask a general contempt for animal life. >>

Oh give me break! One could make an equally silly argument along the lines that "support of PETA is an attempt to mask suppress one's true desire to consume meat" or "support of PETA is often the refuge of those who have abused animals in the past". -- Doesn't make a lot of sense does it? :eyes:

[Scout1071]

69. This little guy came from one of those places in MO:

I don't mind the good breeders. My last dog, a yellow lab who just passed in January, came from a breeder. From a farmer and breeding was the teenage daughter's 4H project. The dogs had plenty of running room, very clean space, food, water and were in terrific condition from a health standpoint. That I have no problem with whatsoever.

But, some of these places in MO are terrible. Mine was abused before I got him and is from one of the MO puppy mills. He then lived with a couple of pit bulls - who were trained to be very aggressive. But he's a total sweetheart.

I wanted a purebred, but I did make a conscious decision to adopt this time.

[mirandapriestly]

72. How can you say that?

PETA receives dozens of complaints a day on animal abuse too horrific to describe. I doubt they would be frivolous in their investigations. people who insist on having pure breed puppies are part of the problem which leads to the vast numbers of unwanted, throwaway dogs AND suffering of those involved in the breeding. People who love animals (like I do) can only adopt so many unwanted, badly behaved (sometimes), imperfect looking dogs to make up for it.

[nashville_brook]

73. meet Boots Dunn "Trouble"

Trouble is an Italian Greyhound.

Trouble was born in a puppy mill.

When Trouble was just a babe, he was put in a semi-truck with hundreds of other puppies from the midwest to points unknown.

There were Iggies like him. Yorkies. Dachunds. Poodles. Boxers. Every breed of dog you can imagine.

There was no air in the truck on a hot July day.

The truck turned over in Nashville.

Trouble gasped for air in a dark truck and hearing the sounds of dogs bred for their luxurious fluffy coats died all around him. He smelled the smell of death in their urine. For a creature that lives in a world of smell, that's a big deal.

If you think dogs don't have emotions. If you think dogs don't have memories, or don't feel TERROR...



...just try to put Trouble in a car. Or spend the night with him when his nightmares are so bad he screams re-living the scene in that truck. Feel his heart racing and work thru your own panic as he can't snap out of it lang after he's awake. Try to comfort him in his regular panic attack on the way to the vet. Witness his mortal fear of being put in a crate (if you've had dogs, you know what a mess it is when they won't "crate.")

It's all still there for Troubs.



I've heard that dogs have emotional/intelligence comparable to that of a 3-year old child. recently on NPR I heard Daniel Pinkwater describe teaching his dogs to "read" flash cards, so I taught Trouble and my other "iggie" Astra to "read" flash cards. They've associated card/command/treat just like Pinkwater said. They don't "know" The True Meaning of "sitting, dancing and standing," (I'm not sure I do) but they play the language game. all they want is approval.

Remind me again how that's different than people.



i was in the hospital for a summer. when i came home Trouble greeted me with almost an hour worth of clinging; crying; moaning; urgerling; snarferling; and cuddling. It was interesting for the first 5 minutes. then it was a little creepy, like witnessing a nervous breakdown.



my human friends didn't show such emotion. it's too scary. dogs are one hundred percent true. Isn't that a kind of nobility?

i don't know much about PETA and what they are doing in their latest action, but ANYTHING that brings the issue of puppy mills up for discussion is a good thing as far as I'm concerned. Our dogs challenge us to be better people. Think of them as agents of God. He really can't be around a hundred percent of the time, so He's left his buddies here to keep an eye on us. When God comes back, if he's anything like me, he'll be greeted by his dogs and they will TELL HIM EVERYTHING.

or not. whatever.

the point is, if you want a be a better human, get a dog. let them teach how to read the flash cards. let them teach how much you are missed.

Let go and let DOG.

[Neecy]

77. what a wonderful post

...and what a wonderful friend you have in Trouble. If the world could read your post, puppy mills would be out of business.

Please give Trouble a big pat on the head from me...

[NoSheep]

79. I've seen that picture with the tombstone before here on DU.

Could you tell me about it?

[Lilith Velkor]

80. No, in this case they are guilty of hypocrisy

<"...By supporting commercial breeders such as Hunte instead of encouraging people to visit a shelter, the governor is issuing a ‘death sentence’ for dogs across the country who are waiting to be adopted.">

Yeah, killing dogs is only OK if a petan does it, right? Freaks...

[MisterP]

83. apparently the only really PETA thing was the van the dogs' bodies

were found in.
but I won't let that intrude on the eternal sunshine of the spotless mind

[Lilith Velkor]

84. Oh, really?

http://home.hamptonroads.com/stories/story.cfm?story=93730&ran=57036 Get back to me when you are better informed, mmmk?

[justiceischeap]

85. No, they are not guilty of hypocrisy

Not once has PETA ever denied the need for euthanizing animals or their involvement in it. The whole reason PETA started working in North Carolina was because a police officer alerted them to how these poor animals were being euthanized. Which, in case you are not informed, was by placing them in "kill boxes," which consists of shoving as many dogs as they can into a metal or wooden box, then in some instances, hooking a hose up to the tailpipe of a pick-up truck and "gassing" them. The other option was a bullet or two in the back of the head with a .22.

Another issue you may not be informed about is that in one of the counties PETA was working with in North Carolina doesn't allow the animals in shelters to be adopted because of fear of a rabies epidemic.

PETA was asked by officials in North Carolina to come down and help euthanize these animals humanely. That too can be found in newspaper articles if you look.

Of course, you'd rather indict those involved in this case before its' even been tried.

P.S. What the hell does the N.C. case have to do with puppy mills, anyway?

[Lilith Velkor]

86. and again...

<"...By supporting commercial breeders such as Hunte instead of encouraging people to visit a shelter, the governor is issuing a ‘death sentence’ for dogs across the country who are waiting to be adopted.">

The case in NC shows that they have no problem issuing the 'death sentence' themselves. That is hypocrisy.

It also strikes me as hypocritical to go around screaming "meat is murder! your mommy kills animals!" and then go around, well, killing animals. Rationalize that all you like, and feel free to add an insult or two, because it's all about winning hearts and minds, eh? :)

[justiceischeap]

87. Your argument still has nothing to do with puppy mills

See the 'death sentence' PETA is referring to is adopting animals who already need homes instead of breeding more animals, hence adding to the already expansive pet overpopulation crisis. Anyone who purchases from a breeder/pet store/puppy mill and neglects to consider the animals in shelters, are in fact killing that animal that could have been adopted.

So if you want throw stones at PETA for asking people to go veg, then also euthanizing companion animals, you must also lay blame where it really belongs, people who continue to breed and purchase animals instead of visiting a shelter to adopt.

Also, PETA isn't the only organization that condones this, so does HSUS and many other animal shelters across the US. It's not like anyone wants to euthanize an animal for the fun of it, it's a necessary evil and it's not PETA's fault that this problem exists.

[flvegan]

88. Some folks should spend some time volunteering at an open intake shelter

before throwing stones, I think.

Nice post. Right on.

[yewberry]

90. Yeah, peta sux, they shouldn't try to help any animals ever!

Oh, that makes a lot of sense because, um, they're just FREAKS.

Yay, puppy mills! Screw you peta!

[Lilith Velkor]

92. "You are with us, or you are with the puppy mills!"

:freak:

[yewberry]

93. Quoi?

Explain, please.

I am with them, agaist puppy mills. Are you not?

[Warren DeMontague]

89. How often is a broken clock right?

Sounds like PETA has done the right thing, here, in this one particular situation.

Good for them.

[Karmadillo]

95. FYI, other particular situations where PETA has done the right thing

http://www.peta.org/about/victories.asp

[LisaL]

104. What did they do? Are those puppy mills shut down now?

I think not.