For the politically naive and innocent among you

[bluestateguy]

I'm getting very worried that DU is falling into the same "Bush is toast" trap that it has fallen into many times over the last 5 years: the Downing Street Memo, Gannon/Guckert, the August 6th PDB, and God only knows how many other scandals and smoking guns that never materialized and then receded back into the darkest corners of the internet. Sometimes the corporate media got bored with the stories, the other side launched a ferocious counter-attack or Karl Rove made a few phone calls and made the whole thing go away.

If Fitzgerald walks away from this investigation with nothing, the gloating from the other side will be nauseating. Five years of this bullshit has taught me to assume that the Bush team can get away with anything they want to.

There are powerful people in Washington, in Texas and all over the nation who will do anything, ANYTHING to protect their little Baby Bush. Bush to them is like a little child, but a child desperately in need of protection by grownups. They believe he was chosen by God, and that to criticize him is to sin against God. This case could play out exactly the same way.

[halsaxby]

1. We are stuck with Bush/Cheney until....

it becomes unprofittable for us to be. Only then will they feed him to the wolves.

[Seen the light]

2. That would be very bad

I can only imagine the gloating of the Freepers then. However, I'm putting it at at least a 90% that Rove gets indicted.

[tatertop]

3. I am expecting as much

Wish we spent more time making sure our vote counted
and less time gloating over something we cannot control

[spindrifter]

7. And trying to educate others.

The real value to these incidents is in their power to instruct us that we cannot simply sit back and let "important" and "influential" people take over the decision-making role.
With the internet as the most powerful communication tool humans have ever divise, we have the responsibility for using it to educate people who do not naturally question "authority."

[Walt Starr]

4. I'm certain there will be indictments

I am equally certain they will be followed nearly immediately with pardons.

The hubris of this adminstration can never be underestimated.

[Kahuna]

15. I was thinking something similar tonight. Bush would pardon..

Rove straight off. Bush has nothing to lose. He's already loathed by Americans. So his approval goes down another 10 points. At least he still has his brain.

[xiamiam]

5. that was then...times are changing...cindy sheehan, katrina, etc etc etc

i do appreciate the warning because i have a tendency to have hope that Americans will not let this happen any longer...and before August and September I felt hopeless...but a lot has changed..the media for one is sometimes reporting a piece of truth...thats a helluva lot more than before...and i think patrick fitzgerald is going to change the crap we've had to endure..i believe the groundwork is being laid for convictions for misleading the American people into a phony and bogus war...thats what he should be doing...ethics and standards and decency above partisan politics and greed...I am so hoping....that this Now is different...

[bluestateguy]

8. "but this is different"

We hear that line too everytime a new story comes out, insisting that this time things will, in fact, play out differently. No really! THIS IS DIFFERENT!

[OKDem08]

11. I think you're being sarcastic but I really do believe

THIS IS DIFFERENT because of the cumulative affect along w/expectations of skyrocketing heating costs this winter.
That will get the attention of even those only marginally aware of political matters.

[Cocoa]

6. sometimes that cynicism is off the mark

for example, as I posted on another thread, Tom Daschle sent a letter to John Ashcroft on Dec 22, 2003, demanding he appoint an independent prosecutor in the Plame case.

That was met with the cynical posts on DU I paste below. These DUers are fine people, to be sure, but their cynicism was off the mark and it was a good thing that Daschle was "naive" enough to keep up the pressure on Ashcroft for months, as Ashcroft recused himself a week after Daschle sent the letter, clearing the way for Fitzgerald's appointment.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=953412

Too little, too late. The time for action and demands for justice passed the moment you allowed the cartel to take control of this investigation. You knew then, just like now, they will never allow the truth to come out. Never.

I see this whole incident as having already been washed and scrubbed and we will never find out the truth. Just like 9/11 and just like Iraq. This letter will mean nothing to this administration of liars and thieves. Daschle's so-called leadership of the Democratic party is a laughingstock and no one takes him seriously, least of all Ashcroft. I don't see this as having any effect - good, bad or indifferent.

Nice try though, Tom.


<snip>

my instinct says your are absolutely correct.

..I wonder if Tom asked him how the Anthrax investigation is going.

<snip>

And yes, I have no doubt that the Imperial Busheviks and their cronies, upon reading this letter, must have burst out with laughter at the continuing naivete of their Enemies of the State.

Sure, Asscroft is going to find the Plame Leaker

Just like he has done such a great job finding all his other friends such as the Anthrax Assassin.

Oh how the Busheviks must laugh. Power is not meant to wielded with compromise, according to the Imperials, and I'm sure Reichsmarshall Asscroft will prusue this at least as diligently as Molotov investigating criminal activity at Karagranda or Vorkuta.

It is funny, in a pathetic sort of way, to see the Democrats so completely befuddled about their role in Imperial Amerika.

Got news for you folks...the time to fight was 20 years ago, 10 years ago, or perhaps in Dec. 2000, when the Old Amerikan Republic formally began it's shuffling death march.

Now it's just pathetic, watching you all beg from tyrants who would kill you if they were yet able, and who will kill you, if like Wellstone and Carnahan, you become a threat.

Pathetic state, that of the opposition to a brutal Emperor and his ruthless minions, whining for scraps from the Imperial Table, or begging them to enforce the rules they have laughingly broken and will continue to do so, or wheedling them to enforce the law against themselves when everyone in the world and half of Imperial Amerikan Subjects know that the Imperials are simply not bound to the rule of law.

Sick and sad world we live in today. Dacshle's letter is as impotant as a request to Himmler to investigate conditions at concentration camps, and will be met with the exact same laughable indifference.

<snip>

JA: "What's this? A letter from Tom Daschle? How quaint. Agnes, please put this in the circular file". Agnes proceeds to throw the letter in the trash, unopened.

<snip>

So, there you have it.

Game over, Daschle.

<snip>

Like this is gonna guilt Asscrack into doing anything.

He's probably stuck the letter up in his office urinal already.

[desi826]

9. There will be indictments

Fitzgerald seems to be doing everything he can to imply that.

He has already told Rove and Libby that they are in serious legal trouble.

He WILL ask for them.

Will the GJ indict?

Well, they are over 75% african american-the ONE group in the country that isn't intimidated by Bush or his crew.

Sure, Bush can still pardon them and the media will have a field day, but just like the country STILL holds Bush responsible for Katrina despite the media spin, they will see this as an admission of guilt from Bush.

It will be politically devastating for him. Either way, he is in deep shit.

He should have fired Fitzgerald while he had the chance.
Des

[jedr]

10. NPR did a thing this morning on the split within the GOP;

I feel that they want the neo-cons and the fundies out of power. I don't think that the Dems are really the people making all this happen. I may be wearing a tin foil hat, but I think that if the GOP wanted this to be swept under the carpet, it would have happened. Bush will not lose his power but the repubs will regroup and pursue a policy of fiscal conservatism and smaller government.

[Catherine Vincent]

12. I'm concerned also, but hopefully the Fitz will change all that!

:-)

[crispini]

13. Nah. This investigation has already damaged Shrubco.

Even if there are no indictments, which I doubt, it was still totally worthwhile. The Meirs nomination was a horrible misstep made no doubt because the people in the WH have been distracted by Treasongate. I have no doubt that President Bush himself made the Miers decision and for whatever reason, Karl and Cheney were not able to stop that decision. And it has proven to be a horrible one. They will either have to withdraw that nomination or watch the members of the judiciary committee of her own party just roast the heck out of her.

Just don't listen to them gloating, if it happens. Who the hell cares? The Average Joe American isn't paying much (if any) attention to this right now anyway. The only way that most Americans will hear about this is if indictments actually happen.

[cynatnite]

14. I'm enjoying the show...

No matter what happens I'm relishing them roasting each other, pointing fingers at each other and just make total asses of themselves. It's pure joy to watch it all. :evilgrin:

My optimism has a tight leash on it and as far as indictments go, if it happens, I'll celebrate with fuzzy navels(can someone tell me what that means in French?)

For now, sit back, relax and smile as they continue to implode! :popcorn:

[Redstone]

16. You're right.

Redstone

[freeplessinseattle]

17. gotta have the obligatory "Debbie Downer" post

how funny that all these people are so "concerned" about people not being able to deal with their feelings. sheesh. what do you think people will do? people deal with disappointment all the time, these downer people are the types that avoid relationships bc they had a couple of bad ones.

[mmonk]

18. This one is a little different

in that there is (apparently) a non partisan prosecutor checking into things which a repuke congress can do little about and the press can't wish away. He can be a big figure in history by staying on it. I like the chances something positive will happen.