The Jesuit War: Fitzgerald, Tweety.....and some of our Media who

[KoKo]

don't support the "Literal Interpretation of the Bible."

As Bilmon said: "Look behind a "Jessies eyes" and you see the "fires burning."

BTW: Has anyone looked up Nora O'Donnel's credits. :D

[Eric J in MN]

1. Did Patrick Fitzgerald and Chris Matthews say

that they don't support a literal interpretation of the Bible?

Did Norah O'Donnell?

Are the three of them Jesuits?

[JerseygirlCT]

2. I'm not getting this

Yes, most Catholics do not support a literal interpretation of the bible. Yes, I believe Fitzgerald Matthews and possibly O'Donnell are Catholic.

So?

Jesuits are known for their teaching. Among Catholics, if you want to find the renegade, intellectually speaking, look to a Jesuit. They use their brains, they don't tend to follow blindly.

What I don't understand is your implication. Is being Catholic a bad thing? A good thing? Is having a Jesuit education?

Maybe it's just too late at night for me...

[KoKo]

3. I find it amusing the "Jesuit" Connection between Matthews and Fitzgerald.

Jessies have a unique philosophy. Last night Matthews and O'Donnell had a very odd exchange about a person O'Donnel knew who summed up Fitzpatrick. She said he's called "Pious." Matthews and O'Donnel exhanged an interesting look between them and laughed and Matthews actually did a "snark laugh." In other words (what I saw) was it was a
"knowing" interchange between them...about why Fitzgerald might be "in their minds" maybe on a "crusade."

[OldLeftieLawyer]

4. Jessies?

What an odd appellation for the most honorable, dedicated, powerful, and generous men I've ever known.

What is the Jesuits' unique philosophy?

[KoKo]

5. ROFL....you don't know the history of the Jesuits?

Do a Google...it's amazing as to why they should be after Bush...:D

[Rex]

8. Why, they think he's the anti-christ?

nt

[OldLeftieLawyer]

22. Oh, I know their history pretty well

I'm one of their products, having been educated by them. I've also written a book about them.

But, honestly, I've never heard them referred to as "Jessies," and I really would like to know how you perceive their philosophy vis a vis George W. Bush.

[KoKo]

32. I think they are the "intellectual antithesis to Bush and DeLay and the

far right wing. I know there are those who believe that Bush "fakes" his religion. I'm not so sure that he's a true believer as a born again, but I do think he thinks he's "special" since the media and Rove have convinced him of that after 9/11. I think he's got mega psychological problems due to Poppy and Bab Complex which really might fit into his religious views as a wall that he separates himself from them.

The Jesuits are known for their "intellectual ability to spar and parse and to be quite prosecutorial." I'll leave their "intesting history" to someone else. But memories of "Skull and Bones" and Knights Templar" are enough to kind of make it fun that one who came out of a Jesuit High School would be the one given the PlameGate case to. And that Matthews and O'Donnel got such a laugh about O'Donnel's report that folks who know Fitz closely describe him as "Pios." That's not a word one hears much about in these times. I think the last I heard that word was so long ago I've forgotten it. It was quite a thing for O'Donnel to say that...and it's quite the think that Matthews Show is the leader on the Exposing of the Chimp's run up to the Iraq Invasion for the lie it is.

I can't stand Matthews, but no one else is on PlameGate like he is...but there's so much under the surface one has to look at what he has in common with Fitz and O'Donnell. :shrug:

If I find that Nora O'Donnel was a "Sacred Heart" affiliated school graduate, then I'll know for sure how far this goes.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

35. The Jesuits also taught me

about Occam's Razor - that the simplest explanation is always the correct one.

In this case, I think you might be trying to compare apples and kumquats, since the Jesuits are beyond anything remotely resembling any kind of secret society. It's not a comparison that holds up.

But, what I think you're witnessing is the show of false superiority on the part of those who feel threatened by the rock-hard confidence of Patrick Fitzgerald, who, unlike Ken Starr, unlike any of these talking heards, regardless of where they went to school, doesn't feel the need - in fact, he eschews all of it - to be out there in the spotlight.

They're so dependent on that spotlight, they hardly know what to do with someone who won't court them, who doesn't talk to them, who - clearly - doesn't need them to do his job.

In fact, by the way he's conducted this investigation, Fitzgerald has shown up these people like Matthews and O'Donnell for the blathering morons that they are - they're constantly speculating, but he's kept his own counsel, and so they know nothing. Which is, I might add, as it should be. But, it shows up their fatuousness.

And, let's make sure we take note of this: Fitzgerald's job is far more important than anything any of these empty chatterers will ever do. They know that, and, I suspect, it not only galls them - it angers them.

So, let them characterize a man they don't know as "pious." There are worse things to be called.

I, for one, would never want to be called "Chris Matthews" or "Nora O'Donnell," since that would mean I am dependent on the acts of others for my livelihood and false sense of self-worth. Without people who actually get out there and do things, these vapid talking heads have nothing to say, nothing to contribute.

They're remora.

It's that simple, I believe.

[KoKo]

43. Interesting.

and being one who often looks for the more "complicated reason" something to take into consideration.

I still feel though, that it takes a Jesuit Educated to go after a Bush supported by Fundies. And think it's KARMA...as I said before on this post. It's fascinating.

Without a clear moral vision to go agains the Right Wing Fundamentalists any effort would have gone down as we've seen. So, that Fitz has a great Catholic Education means even more to me in my assessment of him.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

44. Actually,

He went to secular undergraduate and law schools, so he's One Of Ours (Jesuit-trained), but he's not through-and-through.

His foundation, though, has served him - and us - very well.

It's nice, the amount of faith you have in Jesuits and the work they do with their charges, and the concept of Karma, conversely from what I wrote earlier about Occam's Razor, is far more complicated than the common misconception of "What goes around, comes around".

We need a clear more, political, and humanitarian vision in order to take our place at the head of the table. Waiting for indictments and hoping the rightwingnuts will self-destruct is not enough.

My Jesuit training as a lawyer, I must tell you, put absolutely nothing religious in me that wasn't there before. They taught us to use the law in ways that others might not have noticed, but they never instilled one bit of Roman Catholic dogma.

So, what you have in Patrick Fitzgerald is just a damn fine lawyer. I suspect he'd be the first to be horrified by anyone trying to pigeonhole him because of his religion.

After all, that's what the fundies do, don't forget.

[KoKo]

47. I understand....

and I'm an Episcopalian. :D And....I think we've been through this "religious battle" before many times. So, I find it fascinating that when one cuts it all down to the parts that are important...it's religious philosophy which is at stake. Neo-Cons, Evangelical Fundamentalists and Likkud/Right Wing/Realists/Pragmatists and yet the "mainstream religions" have hung back, taking a pass. Preferring to focus on "Gay Marriage" and "Litergy Tweakings."

The Titans of Religious belief are duking it out...with the rest of us split and unable to realy find a "consensus" opinion on things like "Doctrine of Pre-Emptive Strike" and "Imperial America." I think it's a time for all of us who can combine our Moral Training and Beliefs together with a "guiding philosophy" that can maybe intervene in the "Clash of the Titans."

:shrug:

[OldLeftieLawyer]

48. Since I'm an afficianada of

the separation of Church and State, as mandated by the Constitution, I'd just as soon not know anything about anyone's religious beliefs or choices, and keep our country as secular as it is supposed to be.

The battle, as you see it, in the end, is one of laws, as exemplified by the Fitzgerald matter.

It's not religious philosophy which is at stake. It's our liberty, our freedom, our very existence, all of which is based on a document which was written to keep us free FROM religion, all the while allowing freedom OF religion.

It's all about the law.

Religion is a far second, and should play absolutely no part in government.

[KoKo]

54. Agree...

but, unfortunately Religion always creeps in and has a tendency to start wars and other rumpuses. It's the way it was "supposed to be" here in America...we were taught as little kids ...but it all got screwed up in the last decades since WWII. Not that we haven't had our scrapes in the past...but now it's become what always happens to civilizations. I didn't think I'd see it happen here, but the right circumstances (pun intended) came along and here we are.

Let's hope we can expose this so that it doesn't go any futher. Showing up Ralph Reed and the rest for what they are would be a good start.
But, it takes someone who understands religion and has a "morality in their core" to understand how to do it. We have to how our legal system can handle what our Congress/Govt. and the People couldn't.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

56. Absolutely agree

That old First Amendment will carry us on, I believe.

[KoKo]

75. It will....if Judith Miller doesn't bring it down....

:-)'s ...and thanks for the dialog.

[nashbridges]

40. Uh, Jesuit

and a product of Jesuit education. No secret conspiracy here - we tend to hunt out facts no matter what they are and go from there.

When I was in high school our family priest found an abandoned civil war cemetery for black soldiers. It had been neglected for years, and he made it his mission to get it right and proper over my junior year.

The work absolutely sucked. We had to re-inter bones that had fallen out of graves, move trash and waste that had accumulated over the years, and cut down tons of wild plants.

When I asked our priest why we were even bothering (the cemetery had been neglected for almost 70 years, by our research) his answer was: "Justice does not have a time limit."

He might have been the greatest man I've ever known.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

52. My first trial

I came out of a Jesuit law school and was starting out in a government job in DC when I got a call from my Constitutional Law professor.

It was the matter of a murder in the Midwest. The leader of a local Black Panther group had been charged. The victim was a police officer. These were the days of COINTELPRO.

I was spending my days learning about coal mines in western PA when this call came. It was only a few months after graduation.

"Come," he said. "We need all the help we can get."

I asked him what I could contribute, since I had absolutely no criminal - or any other kind of - law experience.

"I taught you about responsibility and protecting our freedoms. What kind of teacher would I be if I didn't give you the chance to keep learning?"

I left everything and went there for almost a year. We lost, at every level, all the way up to the Supreme Court, where the case is still controlling Fourth Amendment law.

No one gets into your heart and into your head like Jesuits. They simply demand your best, and you have no choice but to give it to them.

You and I, my friend, have been the most fortunate of beings.

[madrchsod]

9. here is the rude ones article about

fitz ---- you would never want to be a person of interest.
http://rudepundit.blogspot.com/
The Rude Pundit
go to oct 19-jesuit in the mix

[KoKo]

16. A Snip from e-mail to "Rude Pundit" about Fitz's High School Education:

The Jesuit in the Mix:
Here's an e-mail the Rude Pundit received yesterday from Boring Diatribe:
" Fitzgerald is 44, making him 4 years older than me, so we didn't overlap at the Jesuit high school we both attended in NYC, where we both grew up, but I can tell you a couple of things about our education:

"Regis is a 500 student high school for gifted boys. There's an entrance exam. There's an interview. There's an interview for the parents, separately, and the bad apple students are steadily weeded out over 4 years, though admissions mistakes only hover around 1-4%. Rejected students are those who can't excel in a rigorous program that at that time included 3 mandatory years of Latin and the kind of debates that are rarely seen beyond Lincoln-Douglas re-enactments.

"Have you ever looked into the eyes of Jesuits? Look long enough, and you can see the heretics burning back there. Back then, they still imparted that zeal to their students, if pointed in more helpful directions.

"When I heard Fitzgerald went to Regis, I knew Rove and the boys were in a lot of trouble. Rest assured, if there's a crime, Patrick's going to find it, and he will prosecute. At the time I attended, Regis was designed to turn out moral (in the true sense) men who would become impeccable professionals or even captains of industry. I think Fitzgerald's route is obvious.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

23. I love the Rude Pundit

And I read that piece the other day.

You know, the more this goes on, the more grateful I am to be a Jesuit-trained attorney. They changed my life - and me - all for the better.

I'm so proud of Patrick Fitzgerald on so many levels.

[bluedawg12]

45. oldlefitelaw- I thought it was : Jebbies for short, I too went to a

Jesuit school- for undergrad and beyond- I must have missed the secret signals and the decoder ring- did you get one? :think:

I think the pattern percieved here is one of Irish Catholic names- not sure how the SoJ ties in, really.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

50. Uh-oh

I didn't get the secret signals or the decoder ring, BUT I did learn the secret handshake and how to make the perfect Blue Meanie (the secret was, of course, blue Curacao).

And they thought educating girls was a waste ........

Yeah, you cracked the code that had me so confused here. "Jessies"? I'd honestly never heard that before. "Jebbies," oh, yeah, that's familiar. I just thought maybe I wasn't in class that day.

It's definitely a Catholic thing going on here, you're right. The Irish names make it easier to make it Catholic, too, so there's that.

Wouldn't your teachers be proud of you for figuring that out?

And wouldn't I get told to stay after school and explain my confusion?

Thanks for the clarification, my partner-in-crime. Here's one for you:

[bluedawg12]

61. OldLeftieLaw- AMDG- ad majorem dei gloria

now if we can only break the real meaning of that.

Perhaps a book? The Jebbie Code?

Peace Brother-

Bluedogger

[tomg]

70. We always called them

Jezzies ( a z sound) when I went to high school ( ICB - Irish Christian Brothers). My brother and sister went to Jesuit colleges and my cousin was a Jesuit out of Boston College (later left)and they all called them Jezzies, too. In fact, most of my cousins were Jesuit-trained.

The Jesuits always have had the reputation as being the church's intellectual shock troops, and what I've always found fascinating about Jesuit-trained people is that they tend either to be extremely progressive or reactionary as hell. In addition to the Drinan and some of the others listed downthread, the Jezzies also claim Buchanan and Bennett.

edit: clarity and typo

[Lucille]

39. I agree about the "knowing smile"

I think it was just a nod from one Irish-Catholic to another. Because of their background, O'Donnell and Tweety recognize that Fitzgerald's legal training didn't start at Harvard.

I don't think that Fitzgerald's pursuit is rooted in his devotion to a particular form of religion, but in the intellectual and philisophical rigor of Jesuit training. I don't think that the fallen angels, Tweety and Whore-ah, were trying to suggest that it was. But I do think they were saying that his approach is that of one who has devoted his body, mind, and soul to the truth and the law. In this sense, their reference to his piety was a little too insider-y.

So ironic. The Bushies are people who thought that they could create their own reality. Just goes to show-- Secular Inquistion! Nobody expects the Secular Inquistion!

[tocqueville]

7. Historically Protestants have mistrusted Jesuits

because of their use of casuistry which doen't give a f... about morals.

My favorite jesuit :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre_Teilhard_de_Chardin

since him the Catholic Church gave up the literal interpretation of Genesis

[TahitiNut]

17. "Some day ..."

"Some day, after we have mastered the winds, the waves, the tides and gravity we shall harness the energies of love. Then, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire." — Teilhard de Chardin

[loudsue]

74. Woo! That gave me chills!

:loveya: Thanks, T-Nut! :woohoo:

Beautiful, and profound.

:kick:

[OldLeftieLawyer]

24. Historically, the Vatican hasn't trusted the Jesuits

There's a terrific history of the order, by Malachi Martin - http://tinyurl.com/8t3fa - that tells the history of the Jesuits within the Catholic Church. It's especially compelling when you consider the job held by this new Pope before he ascended to the Papacy.

It's a great read.

[zippy890]

42. off topic - to you tocqueville

Have you followed Bernard-Henri Levy's series of articles in the Atlantic "In the Footsteps of Tocqueville"? Part 5, the final one appears in Nov.05 Atlantic

I found Levy's insights and descriptions of the current state of American culture and politics very interesting.

In Part 5 he is not kind to the democratic party so I have been hesitant to bring it up in this forum, but I think it would to the party's members well to read it with an open mind and a view toward getting on the right path.

Especially this part where Levy, after meeting with many democratic leader expresses his feelings about what he wanted to hear from them:

-snip-
"I yearned for one voice, just one, to articulate the 3 or 4 major issues that, given the current debate and balance of power might constitute the framework of a political agenda. A defense of the Enlightenment against the creationist offensive. A Toquevillian revolution extolling certainly not atheism but secularism, and maintaining the separation of church and state. A new New Deal for the poorest of the poor. An uncompromising defense of human rights, a rejection of the "exception" status of Abu Gharib and Guantanamo"

-snip-

[Bernardo de La Paz]

11. It is a rant. Someone is writing for themselfves and not for their readers

[JohnnyCougar]

6. I went to a Jesuit high school...

They are very dedicated to their religion...but they are also pretty liberal. Most of them, at least. They take a more intellectual view of the Bible, and their lives outside of school and Church is heavily dedicated to community service. I did about 5 different community service projects while in high school.

[KoKo]

12. We have those taught by the "Christian Brothers" in our family....

not the Jesuits. But, I'm loving that a "Jessie" is going after Bush...KARMA!

[KoKo]

19. I have NO PROBLEM with Jesuits...but one must look at their

philosopy...to figure how it fits with Fitz and the Bushies...that's what I'm getting at. Jesuits have a certain philosophy...in the Catholic Church....and a very long...and sometimes very "dark" history.

But...hey it takes all kinds to make up this world and to keep "A Balance."

But...it's still interesting the Jessies against the Fundies. :D

[OldLeftieLawyer]

26. Well, actually, that's not it at all

The Jesuits have no horse in this race, and how the notion of Liberation Theology would enter into the Fitzgerald investigation escapes me.

I'm not sure you understand the Jesuits and what they're about.

[DoYouEverWonder]

37. Being educated by Jesuits

and being a Jesuit are two different things.

However, having gone to a 'sister' school in NYC, the education that you receive in these schools, does leave an indelible mark on you that never goes away.

These schools only take 100-125 students each year. Regis is still all male, mine was all female. There was a city wide exam that all catholic school students took in order to get a place in these schools. Only the best and the brightest get into a school like Regis. Most people end up in the big Diocesan schools.

The religious teachers in these schools, at least back in the 60's and 70's were surprisingly liberal. At my school, we were allowed to take off from school(with parental permission) to attend events like the Vietnam War protests. We closed a half day early, so everyone could attend the first Earth Day parade.

Funny thing though, most of the people who come out of these schools ended up leaving the church and are no longer 'religious' or 'practicing' catholics.

[Lucille]

41. Excellence gets you into Regis, not money--it's tuition-free

I didn't know Fitzgerald went to Regis. Wow.

Regis is tuition-free, reserved for the best and the brightest. I believe they administer their own entrance exam--not the TACHS or SSEI, which other private schools use. Fitz, the son of a doorman, would have been competing for his space with kids who had everything, in terms of family ties and education, that money can buy.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

51. The glorious days of

Liberation Theology, before the big crackdown came out of the Vatican.

The Jesuits were a mighty influence on many orders, and had their followings among other religious within the Church. They did so much good. They made such a difference.

They changed my life.

[JohnnyCougar]

21. It is a little ironic...but fitting.

Bush, the televangelist President being decapitated by one of true faith.

I attribute my liberalness to my Jesuit education. It seems ironic, since it was an all male, upper class school. My Dad brought me up on Rush Limbaugh and Mark Belling. But I think it was partially my Jesuit education that turned me around...that and my Mom.

Most of the students there were raised in very conservative families. By senior year, many were moderated or completely flipped. Of course, there were some skinheads there that would never change, but that happens everywhere. Many of us were ridiculed around the city...since it was an all boys school, we were dubbed as "Homo High." So maybe that had something to do with it too. We were taunted for being gay, even though few of us were. That whole experience just made the homophobic, narrow outlook seem even more ridiculous.

But everyone was forced to do service, liek read to inner city school children, pick up trash in the ghettos, etc. My senior year I helped out in a classroom with emotionally disabled children. For guys that are coming from the suburbs from wealthy conservative families, that is a pretty humbling experience.

[DoYouEverWonder]

38. In NYC

back when I was growing up, at least half the population attended catholic schools. There was no question, that when you graduated you would go to catholic HS. All the catholic high schools at the time, except for the diocese high schools, were all male or all female. So at least in NYC, it was no big deal.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

53. Your first line

In my old Italian neighborhood, there's a saying:

"You spit up in the air, it lands in your face."

We're the lucky ones, the ones the Jesuits made their own.

Pass the popcorn.

[Catherine Vincent]

10. Jesuit educated are A-OK in my book.

When Fitzgerald received a letter of decline from the prestigious jesuit school in NY, he phoned the director of admissions and told him there is some mistake, there is no way he failed the application test. After checking, the school realized it was a different Patrick Fitzgerald that failed. How's that for tenacity?!:)

[graywarrior]

13. And for fun, read The Sparrow

[Straight Shooter]

27. Hey, graywarrior, look what I found while looking for checks online :)

http://www.checkworks.com/personal/bydesign.asp?design=DT

[graywarrior]

29. You are fucking kidding me. That is so great!

I LOVE IT!!

[Straight Shooter]

30. Heh.

I like this one, "Ballet Parking"

[graywarrior]

36. It's a toss up between duct tape and this one for me

[Davis_X_Machina]

14. The same order...

... claims Fr. Robert Drinan, SJ, who as a US Rep. from Massachusetts introduced the first, pre-Watergate, resolution of impeachment against Nixon, and then-Fr. John (McLauglin Group) McLaughlin, one of the last Nixon aides to leave the West Wing.

Pat Buchannan and Fidel Castro are both products of Jesuit schooling.

Jerry Brown's an ex-Jesuit seminarian, as is Gary Wills.

It seems to me unprofitable to see a unique, "Jesuit" stamp on the Fitzgerald story.

It would be a better world if everyone the Jesuits taught actually did what the Superior General of the order, Padre Pedro Arrupe, called for: "It is the particular charism of the graduate of a Jesuit school that he should be 'a man for others'.

[Justitia]

15. Jesuits are dedicated to the concept of "social justice"

The vast majority espouse "liberation theology".

The Jesuit priests of Central & South America are the ones who stood up for the people against the RW takeovers there (backed by the USA) and they were murdered for it. The Jesuit bishop was shot & killed while celebrating mass.

Vatican II reformations were spearheaded by a Jesuit pope - much to the chagrin of the far right wing of the Catholic Church.

Jesuits are legendary for the highest standards of teaching and education - they embrace and encourage independent, critical, enlightened thinking.

Jesuits are the sworn enemies of Opus Dei.

I was quite heartened to hear that Fitzgerald was the product of a Jesuit education.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

28. Well, Liberation Theology has been

pretty completely smacked down by the Vatican. When Drinan was called back from his Congressional seat, the whip was already coming down.

The Jesuit order of today is, alas, quite different from the one under which I grew up. I am still their biggest fan, and I'll never be able to thank them adequately for all that they gave me, but they've been defanged in the worst ways by this fucking Vatican.

Benedict, in the job he held before he became Pope, was the big reason behind the corralling and silencing of the Jesuits.

But, there are no better teachers anywhere.

[kath]

64. OLL, what job did Benedict hold before becoming Pope?

I take it it was something to do with smacking down Liberation Theology?

[OldLeftieLawyer]

71. Before he was named Pope,

he was - from 1981 until his elevation - head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.

The job title sounds benign, doesn't it?

It had another name, one that more people would recognize: the Holy Office of the Inquisition.

That's right. Our Pope was the head of the most recent Inquisition. Nice, huh?

And, when he took the job in 1981, his first campaign was to shut down the Jesuits' pursuit of Liberation Theology, and to make sure they were not as "out there" in the world as they had been. Ever since, they've been sorely limited in what they're allowed to do.

Yep, the Inquisition lives.................

[KoKo]

76. That's fascinating. I didn't know that "Pope Benedict" was

weeding out the Jesuits. I can't understand that. I would think, given his power that he WAS a Jesuit. What order does he come from?

I'm Episcopal...but have Catholics in my family but not anyone I can ask about this...they kind of go to the "hard line" one step away from the Fundies...so it's a delicate situation asking them about Benedict...I guess I could do a Google if you don't want to bother. It's fascinating the Nuns and Priests and Orders of Brothers and Nuns that all the folks I've interacted in my life were taught by. And so many have huge loyalties to the orders of those they were taught by.

I have my "FAV's" amongst the Orders...if I had been raised Catholic just from the friends I've had and what I've known about how they operated in life.

[bluedawg12]

46. Justicia- how do you know the Jebbies v. opus dei

animosity exists.


Dang, now I wonder if I appreciated my jebbie teaching all those years. Must say they run some damn fine Universities.

[Justitia]

49. Most of it is common knowledge to those exposed, but I have a friend

whose father holds a diplomatic position at the Opus Dei Headquarters in Mexico City. When I visited her family there, I was given informal "orientation" on the place, people, etc. One of the diplomatic protocols I learned was that ordained Opus Dei attempt as much as possible to never be in the same room as a Jesuit.

No kidding - if at all possible, a priest ordained in the order of Opus Dei (not the laypeople) should avoid being in the same room or close personal proximity of any Jesuit priest. My friend's father - the diplomat (who was neither Jesuit or Opus Dei), was painfully aware of the ancient animosity between the two factions and sometimes had to really tapdance between the two opposites.

The Opus Dei are far RWers, they have many very restrictive (and bizarre) rules, are VERY closed off socially, but the Jesuits are the total opposite of the spectrum, liberal, enlightened and "out among the common people". Hilarity ensued when the Jesuits would poke at the uptight Opus Dei just to get their goat. My friend's father, ever the diplomat, tried to circumvent fireworks whenever possible. He had some great stories!

[OldLeftieLawyer]

55. What I was told

by a Jesuit was that the folks in Opus Dei were just fucking nuts. The stuff about not being in the same room and stuff, well, he didn't mention that, but he said the whole thing rested on the OD side, that the Jesuits found them amusing.

But, after the crackdown that put an end to the freedoms that the Jesuits had enjoyed via Liberation Theology, he and his brothers understood that they'd misunderestimated the power of the right-wing, and, alas, were pulled back into the fold, where they are now allowed only the most minimal of social action.

I'm sure, given the history of how banged around the Jesuits have always been by the Vatican, that they'll re-emerge, as they always have, and once again give their gifts to the world.

Antonin Scalia is a member of Opus Dei. That scares me beyond words.

Fortunately, he's also an overweight chain smoker. I got hope. . . . . . .

[Justitia]

58. That's exactly how it was portrayed to me...Jesuits thought OD were nuts

and had a rod up their butts. After what I learned about "corporal mortification", they might have meant it literally!

All the exasperating, funny stories my friend's father shared with us were how the Jesuit priest friends of his would tweak the OD priests sensibilities and how he, the diplomat, would have to smooth ruffled feathers.

Come to think of it, regarding the not-in-the-same-room rule, he did mention once he wondered if it was really a "rule", or simply a convenience because the OD guys couldn't stand the Jesuits - ha!

Yes, I think the bad feelings were definitely stewed on the OD side, and the Jesuits were somewhat blindsided by the sneak attack. From what I remember at the time, the Jesuits were absolutely floored by John Paul II giving OD the Personal Prelature and beatifying Escriva before Good Pope John XXIII. Then, they saw the writing on the wall...

Well, the Jesuits have been around a long, long time and I'll always root for them when it comes to a coup in Rome!

[bluedawg12]

66. OD v Jebbie makes me think about the Templars

and how out of the blue they were eliminated. I hope there is no modern day parallel.

The Templars story shocked me, because it was a totally military solution to their perceived power.

Well, after 2,000 years there is bound to be some interesting history.

[grasswire]

69. Louis Freeh is Opus Dei

....according to many sources. And Robert Novak, too, right?

I'd sure like to see a list of Washington players who are also Opus Dei.

[JSK]

57. The Berigan Brothers

are Jesuits. And is not Bill Clinton's Alma Mater, Georgetown, a Jesuit University? I adore the Jebbies...

[Justitia]

59. IIRC, The Berrigan Brothers were OldLeftieLawyer's clients! -eom

[OldLeftieLawyer]

62. They were

My first bail hearing was to get them sprung after pouring blood all over the Pentagon.

How lucky was I?

[OldLeftieLawyer]

60. Only one

Dan's the Jesuit. Phil was a Josephite.

And, yes, Bubba's a Georgetown boy, so ..... :)

[UTUSN]

18. All I Know Is: There's a Whole Lot of IRISH CRAP Going on

Yeah, I know, ...

[pisle]

20. Did you mean "Jedi", not Jesuit? HA! n/t

[Davis_X_Machina]

25. As if Lucas ever had an original idea....

[KoKo]

31. Fitz's Quirks and his Cat......A good read about him:

A few funny tidbits about him....and from a Chicago Trib article from '02 before he got involved with "PlameGate." For those who want to know a little more about his personality. Nothing "Jesie" there except that he's called the "Priest of Prosecution." :D (The article is a great read for those who haven't read much about him)

--------------

People who have worked closely with Fitzgerald, however, say that he is more than just a priest of prosecution. They describe a quirky prankster whose sly sense of humor is cutting enough to have made him the speechwriter most in demand for roasts of departing prosecutors in New York City. This is a man who, inexplicably, keeps dirty socks in his desk drawers (“When you do a case with him, you don’t want to look for a pen,” a former colleague says). For eight years, he neglected to have the gas stove in his Brooklyn condo turned on. “Eccentric and kooky,” says a high-ranking staff member in the U.S. attorney’s office in New York City. “But he’s very lovable that way.”

-SNIP-

Indeed, Fitzgerald’s extreme workaholic tendencies seem to keep him from attending to even the most basic domestic duties. To teach him a lesson about the dangers of leaving his cat alone while he hotfooted it around the globe chasing terrorists, Fitzgerald’s colleagues on an antiterrorism task force once kidnapped the cat and took snapshots to show Fitzgerald some possible endings for the poor creature: holding the cat off the Brooklyn Bridge, putting a gun to its head, and visiting a Chinese restaurant. “They said, ‘It can be whatever you want; pick whatever you want,’” Comey says. Ultimately, the cat ended up on a farm.

Pet or no, Fitzgerald was rarely at home. Once, when his Brooklyn condo was burglarized, a cop walked in and saw a stack of newspapers on top of the gas burners. “Whoa, buddy, that’s not a good idea,” the cop warned. Fitzgerald told him not to worry. In eight years in the condo, he had never called the gas company to turn the stove on.
Comey says Fitzgerald is working on getting out more here in Chicago. “He’s attended some cocktail parties. The thing he remembers is how many people were there—10, 13. . . .”
http://www.chicagomag.com/ME2/dirmod.asp?sid=&nm=&type=pubtitles&mod=Publications%3A%3AArticle+Title&mid=61BFC65300D24DB58350C761094153A1&tier=3&aid=139938B2E6644C97B59B7A20675CA560#

[Mind_your_head]

34. This guy couldn't even use a comb well.....

good thing that's not why we think so highly of Mr. Einstein - that he had 'good hair'.



Likewise, Fitzgerald isn't perfect....just like the rest of us. Let's not dig up/focus on things that are 'red herrings' that may distract/detract from what Mr. Fitzgerald does well.

[bluedawg12]

67. He sounds like the right man for the job.

Total dedication to work. The stove thing isn't odd, I bet he always eats out.

The cat story- I hope they didn't actually dangle the poor feline from a bridge.

[leanin_green]

73. We've done an interesting read on his birthchart over at. . .

DU Groups: Astrology, spirituality etc., etc.

[slaveplanet]

33. Don't forget Timmy Russert

Jesuit educated at John Carroll in University Heights , Ohio

[msu2ba]

63. A Jesuit Joke

I taught alongside the good Jesuit brothers and fathers for 14 years at their high school in Detroit. I learned much from them. The principal was a priest for whom I would cheerfully walk through fire. I'm regularly in contact with many of my former students and proud of the way they represent the Jesuit ideal of "Men for Others."


As the most scholarly of the Catholic orders, Jesuits do tend toward liberalism and a certain worldliness. This story was a big hit in the teachers lounge.


A man bought a Maserati. It was his first really expensive car, so he wanted to have it blessed.

He went to his parish priest.
"Father, would you give my Maserati a blessing?"
"What's a Maserati?"

He wanted a blessing from someone who would properly appreciate his car, so he went to the next parish down the road.
"Father, would you give my Maserati a blessing?"
"What's a Maserati?"

He finally came to a parish that had a Jesuit for a pastor.
"Father, would you give my Maserati a blessing?"
"What's a blessing?"

[Davis_X_Machina]

65. Here's my Jesuit joke...

...(8 years a student, taught with them for 4)

Three clergy, on pilgrimage to Rome, fall into debating which one of their orders is performing the most signal service to Mother Church. One Dominican, one Benedictine, one Jesuit.

Dominican: In our ministry, we preserve unimpaired the Magisterium, and in our teaching and preaching pass it along to the next generation.

Benedictine: In our ministry, through work and prayer, we model the ideal Christian life.

Jesuit: That's all very well and good, but this argument could go on for hours. Let's pray for a sign.

All three: "Dear Lord, to prevent vainglorious bragging among holy men, give us a sign. Which congregation advances further the work of Mother Church to Your glory?"

There is a crack of thunder, and the flash of lightning out of a clear sky. Slowly, a Post-It note falls to earth.

The Dominican and Benedictine pick it up, offer the Jesuit a look at it, which he refuses, and so they read:

"Brothers, you are, all three of you, members of orders equally beloved in My sight."

Signed:

God, SJ.

[bluedawg12]

68. LMAO- Odd, how enlightenment among people of faith

brings liberalism of thought.

I understand that the current and previous HF's are knwon to be somewhat mystic.

I attribute that to eastern European roots. Look at Russia, to this day a blend of Greek Orthodox Catholicism and yet many of the folk are superstitious in the old ways.

Anway, funny joke- clever punch line.
.........
Here are some mystical thoughts I found in a dusty tome in the back of a mysterious pet store- owned and operated by a little ferret named Edward.*
....
He who so ever lives by the wisdom of 5,000 years past
is bound to be computer illiterate and shall not drive a car when goats are plenty.

- Book of Dog 1:2.1

Yea, though you wander through the interstate, your tanks shall be filled plenty and your children and their children's children shall have clean facilities at rest stops.

-Book of Dog 2:13

Thy wars shall be just and provoked, for you are not cats who fight for pleasure, ye are dogs, and shall have raw hide chewies in times of peace. But those who sow war shall not even inherit one fire hydrant.

-Book of Dog 2:11

lastly:

You shall not lie with a cat as if it were a dog, for that is a curiosity, but if you lay with a beagle and you and your kin are grey hounds, your offspring shall be swift and have good noses.

-Book of Dog 5:17


*Sponsored by The United Kennels of America.

[Justitia]

72. HAHAHA - Good One!!!

For those who might not get it, SJ = Society of Jesus = Jesuit.