To all those that watched Tweety tonight....

[buff2]

I listened very carefully to all that was said and from what I took away from it all is that Fitzmas has not only been investigating who leaked Valerie Plame's name,but he widened his investigation into the reasons the bu$h thugs took us into war....which was BASED ON LIES...he got the forged document,and the whole enchilada goes right straight to BUSH AND CHENEY. Does anyone believe he is going to indict bush and cheney or will they get a slap on the wrist and the aides get the indictments?

If Fitzmas does his job,the whole White House is GOING DOWN!!!!

:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :party: :toast: ::beer: :wow: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke:

[liberalnurse]

1. I heard it early since I'm on the east coast.....'

Yes, it was very powerful. I sense Fitzgerald is opening the flood gates. He must live by the philosophy if your going to roust the nest, you may as well burn the hive and get it over with.

[buff2]

10. Sounds good to me

Now I'm off to watch Bill Maher!!!! :hi:

[Eric J in MN]

2. It seems likelier to me that

the indictments will be over lying to investigators than lying to the American people.

[RadiDem]

3. Are the RNC "talking points" public yet?

Tweety had a copy.

[Pirate Smile]

4. You might want to check out this thread from last night.

"Fitzgerald has interviewed the Italian officials re the Niger-Yellowcake documents?"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5119625

and this one from today

"I'VE OFFICIALLY GOTTEN MY HOPES UP"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5122131

[emulatorloo]

14. See also David Schuster's report on Hardball re Chalabi, Forgeries, Fitz

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5129751

Good clean shocking summary.

[napi21]

5. We have no way of knowing that! However.....

Trials have a way of wandering into areas that few ever imagined!

I doubt very much that Fitz could file indictments for wrongfully going to war at this point. But every good lawyer builds a solid foundation to his case FIRST! Once that's done, you can build the other stories to the structure.

Be patient.

[EnfantTerrible]

6. He can't indict Bush

A sitting President is immune from indictment. He can be impeached.

[Gabi Hayes]

12. exactly where is that in the constitution, or federal code?

just curious

[reality based]

15. There is considerable disagreement about that

Leon Jaworski persuaded a Watergate grand jury to name Nixon as an un-indicted co-conspirator in order to avoid that issue, but no court has ever ruled that a President is immune from indictment. The founding fathers were not interested in creating a king.

[EnfantTerrible]

22. They were, however,

interested in keeping an operating government that wouldn't grind to a halt by dragging the President into a trial. Impeachment is their answer.

on edit: The Hague is always an option. :)

[reality based]

23. Which is of course the reason why Clinton prevailed in

having legal proceedings against him postponed in Clinton v. Jones.

[Birthmark]

7. I don't know about the whole war thing

But I will say that if Bush perjured himself, then Fitz is the guy to find out if a sitting President can be indicted. Wouldn't you like to know the answer to that question? I know I would!

[Lancer]

8. Prediction -- really going out on a limb

I picked up what you did from Matthews's show tonight.

And I am willing to stand by the following predictions:

Bush & Cheney -- unindicted co-conspirators (although Cheney probably deserves more)
Rove -- perjury, obstruction of justice, conspiracy
Libby -- obstruction of justice, perjury, conspiracy and *possibly* treason (personally think he's the worst offender)
John Hannah and possibly several others -- obstruction
Judith Miller -- perjury, conspiracy

If Fitzgerald has expanded the focus to include the run-up to the war, I would say Condi and Rummy should also face the music.

I may be leaving someone out.

It is not going to be pretty.

[immoderate]

11. Depends on what you call pretty.

If you get my gist.

--IMM

[Lancer]

16. I know what you're saying,

but it will give me no joy to see these people get what they deserve. It will give me satisfaction to see that Mr. Fitzgerald has the guts, the patience and the gravitas to do what's right for the country. IMHO

[immoderate]

20. Let's call it balance.

Basically, we're in agreement. I was just playing with your words.

--IMM

[Sydnie]

13. You left out Bolton

I think Bolton just might be our candidate for the Espionage charge.

[Lancer]

18. Bolton, yes, and perhaps Powell

Told ya I was forgetting somebody or somebodies. Thanks, Sydnie.

Regarding the indictment of a sitting president: www.USconstitution.net has this to say:

Q88. "Can a sitting President be convicted of a criminal offense? Or, must he be impeached first, then tried?"

A. There is no easy answer to the question, as it is a matter of interpretation. I think most Constitutional scholars would agree that the notion of separation of powers prevents the President, and perhaps the Vice President, from being prosecuted in criminal court while in office. So for a conviction, the President would have to either be removed from office, or the trial would have to wait until his term expired. Where there is less certainty is if a sitting President can be indicted while in office. In 1999, there were rumors that President Clinton might be indicted by Independent Council Kenneth Starr while Clinton was still in office, but this never came about.

[ladjf]

21. General Powell definitely was aware of the fact that he was

presenting false material to the U.N. That's treason. How did a man that enjoyed so much respect from everyone allow himself to become a Bush whore? I've never understood that.

[Nitrogenica]

9. Oh I SO agree with your post.

Outing investigation leads to 16 words leads to the selling of the war leads to a huge set of deceitful TV and radio appearances on the public record leads straight to the faces and voices of that era; Bush, Cheney, Rumsfelt, Rice, and unfortunately Powell. They all were pretty busy at that time.

Don't forget about this mountain of info.

http://www.house.gov/reform/min/pdfs_108_2/pdfs_inves/pdf_admin_iraq_on_the_record_rep.pdf

[spindrifter]

17. He's not going to go directly at

the war. He's going to make a tight legal case against anyone he thinks he can prove committed to talking crimes--perjury, obstruction, conspiracy. The war will be left to a political solution--Congress will have to find some loose balls--if there are any. The press needs to clean house and get some editors who know how to run an ethical estate. We need to figure a way to get our keyboards permanently attached to our fingers so we can keep the issues out there--educating our brothers and sisters who need to know what is going on and what the implications are and, just as important, keeping the email pressure on Congress so they don't loose those balls.

[Poiuyt]

19. I'm trying not to get to carried away

Yes, Hardball was very damaging to the Bush White House, but not all shows are willing to go that far. I'm guessing that it will be minor charges against Rove and Libby.

I can't imagine how a prosecutor could investigate the Plame leak without looking into their motive for doing so. If Fitz were to go there, then it would get into the whole run up to the war, including Bush lying to start it.