DUers and fast food - i don't get it.

[nosmokes]

i don't understand the attraction of that crap for so many of y'all. on one hand you claim to be progressive and liberal and caring, yet you patronise these establishments that do as much or more to harm our environment as just about anything else for their size, not to mention the horrific conditions the animals are kept in before they make their way into your happy meal. i just don't see any redeeming qualities to these chains, yet many of you are voting for them rather consistently with your dollars. it just doesn't make any sense to me.

[Seansky]

1. agree, but also, progressive belief and action includes no judging

others based on their tastes, desires, looks, etc...so you have a bit of a dilema here, seems to me.

[Fridays Child]

14. Therein lies the Progressive-Liberal dilemma, in general.

We don't easily pass judgment, nor should we, in my opinion. But our permissive philosophy allows for such a wide range of beliefs and behaviors that our positions seem to be dilute. And I emphasize "seem" because, in actuality, our positions result in policies that are better for America than those promulgated by neocons.

[Seansky]

47. Ok, so everything has a price and nothing is absolute so I can live

with the "seem" part.

Txs.

[William769]

2. Sorry I don't see the connection.

[PatrioticLeftie]

3. Dunno where you heard DUers doing that

I don't eat at those places, went cold turkey about two years ago (With credit to Spurlock).

[Geoff R. Casavant]

34. Same here

Haven't had a McD's French fry since I saw the experiment on the DVD extras.

Ten days and no decomposition? Ew!

[sandnsea]

4. Either does the Walmart boycott really

When I go to Target, every label is from the same sweatshop nations as the clothes at Walmart. I find that a bit hypocritical too. But what are you gonna' do. Walmart won't unionize so there's that. But otherwise, one isn't any worse than the other. Tyson workers are on strike at a meat packing plant in Canada. They supply beef to McDonalds and Costco. So if you're boycotting fast food, as you suggest, then go to Costco because it's blue, you're still hurting those workers in Canada.

Oh, and that computer you're typing on. Have you seen the pictures of the computers dumped into rivers in China???

Such is the world and we all do the best we can.

[Rowdyboy]

5. Sorry, but I reject food police of all stripes....

Nutricianists, vegetarians, anti-fast food, etc. I don't eat fast food often, but I feel no guilt when I do.

In my behalf can I say I don't ever trry to tell anyone what or what not to eat. That, like sex, is pretty much an individual choice.

[Gildor Inglorion]

6. Do I contradict myself? Very well, then...

I contradict myself,
(I am large, I contain multitudes.)
Walt Whitman, "Song of Myself"
US poet (1819 - 1892)

Liberals are not always going to agree on everything. We are NOT lock-step marching Fascists like the merry B*shit gang. Example: the Democratic leader in the U S Senate opposes a woman's right to choose. I would be passionately in favor of imposing a $10 per gallon tax on gasoline and using the proceeds to pay for universal health care, but I daresay many on D U would disagree with my position. I don't eat a lot of beef, so closing every McDonald's and its ilk wouldn't bother me. On the other hand, I'm mad for chicken, so please don't ask me to give up my Kentucky Fried or Popeye's.

[name not needed]

7. Wow.

I can't think of anything to say to this that won't get me tombstoned.

[Lubernaut]

11. WDYHA?

[high density]

8. Wow I can't believe I have money at a bank or drive a car either

I'm such a bad person.

[elehhhhna]

13. LOL. I eat meat. Bad me, bad, bad me.

[Twillig]

9. Oh, so we're supposed to be pure of heart, eh?

To quote the philosopher:

"Fuck that shit, Pabst Blue Ribbon!!"

[nosmokes]

12. pure of heart? not bloody likely, not me anyhow.

and yeah i spose it did come out a bit more judgmental than i meant it, but seriously, we all post here day after day about the power structure and the corporate influence and yet whenever there's a thread about some ff chain people flock to it like white on rice. where you spend your food dollar(or any other dollar) has ramifications that can speak as loud or louder as your vote. so when you pump your money into that whopper instead of into a local farmer's hands or a mom and pop diner you're making a political syatement on a very basic level.

[Cha]

15. I applaude your

sentiments, but, of course no one is going to get off ff until they are good and ready.

My ready was over 20 years ago and I've been supporting Organic farmers ever since. Been fortunate to know many throughout the States who grow the most delicious produce imaginalble.

I'm hoping the neofascists don't have their way and take over the world's seed population!

[Lorien]

41. They've already done so in Iraq; Monsanto has made it illegal to

grow seeds other than those offered by their corporation (I wish I had a link; the article was published almost two years ago). Most of their seeds are GM, of course-and nobody truly knows the long term effects of using such products. :-(

[Cha]

44. I did read about the

mansanto seeds in Iraq but I didn't know it was illegal to grow any others.

Thanks for this..this is Awful. I know there must be farmers in Iraq who appreciate a good organic seed that hasn't been genetically modified!

Like the farmers in Mexico that I saw a PBS Special on who didn't want the mansanto seeds messing up their maize crops that they had cultivated for hundreds of years.

[leesa]

10. We do? Thanks, I didn't know that.

[Jed Dilligan]

16. Fast food and cocaine are about the same

Highly addictive, superficially harmless, ultimately lethal. Raping the planet, enslaving whole nationalities. Anyone who buys either and claims to care about people or health or the environment is a hypocrite. I understand that addicts of all stripes need help, but wearing your addiction as a badge of "I'm no snob" is just pathetic.

[hobbit709]

18. Breathing is highly addictive too.

The Food Police is just another variation of the Morality Police in my book.

Unless you are breathing CO2 and releasing O2 you're doing something to the planet. Everything does something to the planet. The planet doesn't care-it was here 4 billion years before we showed up and it'll be here 4 billion years after we're gone. The planet is in NO danger from us-what's in danger is US as a surviving species. "The survival value of intelligence has yet to be proven".

[Lorien]

22. As a lifeless rock, yes, the earth will "survive"

but unless you're suffering from a terminal illness right now, are very old or accident prone, then what humanity has done to the planet will profoundly effect your life in the coming years and will likely cut your life short. The earth is very much in danger-just read a few articles in the environment forum. The question now isn't weather or not the human race will survive, it's HOW LONG we have to survive; ten years? Twenty? Most certainly less than fifty. How many species will survive after us with all life having disappeared from our oceans (which produce 65% of our oxygen), and complete environmental collapse of the earth's remaining forests, which makes up the rest of our oxygen production. Our choices today determine how soon our tomorrows will cease to exist.

[hobbit709]

32. It will not be a lifeless rock

Life has survived changing from a methane to an oxygen atmosphere which killed practically all life on this planet at the time since oxygen is a deadly poison to a methane breather. It survived the Permian Extinction which killed 90% of known species at the time, it survived the the dinosaur killer which wiped 70% of known species. In more recent history, the human race was reduced to 3 or 4 strains 74,000 years ago by a climate change caused by a supervolcano. There will be life on this planet until the sun runs short of hydrogen-it just may not be us or anything like us.

[Lorien]

36. The scientists I know are concerned that nothing will survive

they've been studying this for over 45 years, so I tend to listen to their viewpoints. Their advice has made me choose to be childless, but I still care enough about other people's children to attempt to limit my negative impact on the planet whenever possible. I don't see why good citizenship is so viciously condemned on a progressive board. You're free to eat what you like, but one shouldn't deny that some choices only serve to enrich conservative leaning corporations, destroy the environment, and impoverish native peoples-no matter how briefly pleasurable those choices may seem.

[Lorien]

20. Well said Jed Dilligan

and welcome to DU! :hi:

Sadly, there are an enormous number here and everywhere else who simply aren't armed with enough information about how deadly fast food is to the environment and entire nationalities, not to mention our health. The MSM certainly won't talk about it; Big Agriculture, Big Pharma, and the GOP (the main benefactor of fast food corporation political donations) profit hugely from those who "enjoy" what they serve on a regular basis.

[nvliberal]

26. Cry me a river. I resent food fascists, just as I resent political

fascists.

[Lorien]

38. It's odd to resent the very thing that you fund. n/t

[nvliberal]

27. So is spending too much time on the internet like cocaine.

A lot of people around here aren't going to give it up.

[Jed Dilligan]

45. How is spending time on the internet

Killing thousands of South Americans, exactly? I guess we can blame the a/c on the servers for some of this Mideast mess, but cars are all in all a bigger problem, wouldn't you say?

[SmileyBoy]

17. **FOOD POLICE ALERT**FOOD POLICE ALERT**

I think someone else in this thread said it best when they said liberalism is about being tolerant of other people's beliefs and choices. I eat a lot of fast food, but I do not eat McDonald's. My places are mainly sub places (Subway, Quizno's), KFC, Arby's, Taco Bell and Wendy's. And I see it not as supporting the corporate structure, but supporting a local business.

When I go into a Subway restaurant, I am helping that local franchisee make money so that he or she might eventually decide to open another Subway restaurant and create more jobs. I am helping the person behind the counter earn their paycheck, because the franchisee has made enough money so that the person can make their wage. I see myself as contributing more to the local economic structure than the global corporatist structure. And we all contribute to that global corporatist structure anyway. It doesn't matter if you eat all organic and buy from Trader Joes. There's no avoiding it.

[depakid]

21. Boy, are you in denial

While I understand the need to rationalize behavior, from an economic perspective, the fact is that franchises are not local businesses any more than Wallmarts are.

Money is sucked out of local communities (where it could have had a multiplier effect) and much of it is instead pocketed by corporations and shareholders far away. That money is used to run extensive marketing campaigns (using child psychologists) to addict kids to junk food- and pad the pockets of the corporate media.

It's also used overwhelmingly to support Republicans and their causes- and it's used to lobby against labor laws, environmental laws and responsible land use planning and many more things that you probably support.

When you spend money at those places, you might as well be sending a check to the RNC. That's the economics of it.

I won't go into the other externalities involved-

Bottom line- it's lose/lose proposition.

[nosmokes]

24. you avoid it by going straight to the grower

either farmer's markets or buying shares in Community Supported Agriculture, leaving the middleman out of the equation entirely, or as much as possible. and that way the food is in your hands hours after harvest instead of days or weeks. and instead of subway or quiznos why not find a real deli that buy's from local producers and sells an honest pastrami instead of god knows what that is subway pases off as pastrami. i know it takes more work, more money sometimes, and it can be far less convenient, but there are other benefits. you wind up with real food, and you can find some really good places to eat when you go off the beaten track. and you get to know the people that make your food.

[depakid]

31. One of the things I like about Peak Oil

is that this vision will become an increasing reality- the junk food purveyors will be slowly but surely be priced out of the market and people will no longer be put in a position to rationalize their choices- or get defensive and call others food fascists for pointing out the myriad problems associated with supporting this dysfunctional industry.

[MrSlayer]

19. I refuse to eat at those places.

Particularly after watching "Super Size Me". Blech.

[qanda]

23. I don't eat at many fast food places

Or any restaurants for that matter, just the thought of other people preparing my food sickens me. However, I think it is an individual choice and does not necessarily reflect on a person's values if they decide to eat fast food.

[nvliberal]

25. True liberals and progressives aren't PETA freaks and many of us

do patronize fast food establishments once in a while.

What I hate are fascists of any kind, including food fascists.

[darkism]

33. Right on, nvliberal.

I can't think of anything to add that won't get me flamed by the PETA freaks here, though. :p

[friesianrider]

40. Nice broad-brushing you got going on there.

[yewberry]

42. True liberals & progressives

don't consistently respond to health, environment & food safety questions by calling other progressive groups "freaks" and ignoring the content of the original discussion.

Nice profile, btw.

[Treclo]

28. Try a combo plate of

"Fast Food Nation" and "Supersize Me", and fast food loses most of its' appeal. That being said- I think fast food is like smoking. You aren't going to quit until you are good and ready, no matter what anyone tells you.

(and, sigh- I still hit Taco Hell about once a month)

[fed-up]

35. Those books cured me of being a fast food junkie, also many health issues

were cleared up.

Do democrats understand the similarities between Bush wanting to drill in Alaska (ruining the environment along the way) and the devastation that is occuring to our rivers and farmland from factory farming? The amount of animal waste generated from these farms in such concentrated locations is creating long term damage. There is also long term damage due to pesticide/herbicide/fertilzer usage.

If one is not part of the solution, one is part of the problem. (yep, that is a judgemental statement)

I realized after reading Fast Food Nation, that what I thought was "food" because it smelled so good, was merely chemically flavored "cardboard". The book also cured my then 14 YO from eating at fast food places.

One most also think of the health care costs that are associated with fast food consumption. This creates a rise in fees for those that actually have insurance, and also takes a huge chunk out of taxpayer funded healthcare.

[Kazak]

29. Only in a pinch...

Prepare our meals at home probably 99.8% of the time.

[DanCa]

30. Unless you don't believe in red and blue lunch counters ;)

[Ellen Forradalom]

37. What provoked this little outburst?

I'm puzzled. Where's the 300+ post McD's vs. Burger King thread?

[friesianrider]

39. People also claim to be environmentalists...

...and still eat meat. The environmental degradation that occurs from the production of meat is absolutely astonishing. If one cares about the environment, I personally think that is reason enough to become a vegetarian. I'm not judging anyone at all for their dietary choices ...just saying that I would find it difficult to claim to be an environmentalist and still eat meat.

*slinks out of thread quickly*

[Arkana]

51. Why is that, I wonder?

Can one not be a "hook and bullet" environmentalist--as a hunter or fisherman? You're not allowed to be a hunter or fisherman and realize that clean water and air are central parts of your sport?

[alittlelark]

43. I have been known to get a coffee at McD's on the road

But other than that..... GAG!!! I would never trust industrial food.

[newspeak]

46. well, not eating fast food for me

is a personal choice. Remember when they accidentally allowed that GMO corn to pass for human consumption? Taco Bell was one who had it. I use to buy tostadas at Taco Bell and then one time the corn tortilla tasted funny. Told hubby that Taco Bell really slipped. Found out it was the GMO corn that was not for human consumption. well, no more!!!!!! My daughter once worked at a Wendys, no way am I gonna eat at these establishments after I found out about some of the health code violations.

[meisje]

48. Its's not fast food, it's good food fast

I'll take an order of the chickenwings with the hot avian dip sauce and a slice of lard.

[Protagoras]

49. All or Nothing thinking is so refreshing

it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

[Retired AF Dem]

50. I work in the armored truck industry

I'm on the road anywhere from 10-15 hours a day six days a week. The entire day is nothing but making time limits. Times ATM'S have to be serviced or filled with money. Time limits to to get ATM deposits back to the bank so they can be posted in your account. Time limits to deliver money to ATM's that are serviced by there own bank personnel. Time limits to return store deposits to banks that have same day banking. Here in northern Al since Wachovia bank bought out South Trust bank Wachovia does not have a vault in north AL. So after my regular route once or twice a week I have to take the money from wachovia customers to Birmingham, a two hour drive one way and god forbid if I get there to late. I'm sorry I don't have time to go to a non fast food restaurant to eat the same as millions of others in different jobs. I have the choice of not eating or eating at Burger King. I'm eating at Burger King. Get over it.

[Ksec]

52. I said I was a Liberal, not a super Liberal. nt

[Midlodemocrat]

53. I won't apologize for my infrequent trips through the drive-through

at Wendy's. Sometimes I just run out of time and need to feed my family.

[TimeChaser]

55. Agreed

Not all of us have the time or means to make our own food all the time or the time and money to go to a good restaurant all the time.

Edited for typos

[Pushed To The Left]

54. Right-wing group Parents Television Council threatened Carl's Jr.

because they thought their ad was "obscene". I actually went to Carl's more than usual around that time because of my dislike for the PTC!

[Catshrink]

56. Carl's Jr. Portobello Mushroom burger is awesome!

[mr blur]

57. Lot of guilt and denial showing up here, no? (nt)