When Bush said the sixteen words at State of Union did he lie?

[Ugnmoose]

We know that Cheney's cabal fixed the facts to take us to war. But did Dimson know? Or like a puppet was he put on a stage to act while others pulled the strings. I am fairly confident that Fitzgerald's investigation will answer this question. I also think it is a good bet that he will have the proof that Chimpy knew what was going on, just like he knew that Rove outed Valerie Plame and did nothing about it.

My conclusion: Fitz will get both Bush and Cheney on treason for taking this country to war on lies and fabrications of facts. My reasoning is that if we at DU know this, then Fitz knows it. The true facts are out there as is the evidence. A good prosecutor will know how to tie it all together to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt. And as prosecutor's go Fitz is the best. Also, don't forget that the CIA pushed for this investigation and I'm sure were the source of a good deal of evidence for Fitz. Call it "The Revenge of the Spooks".

If the indictment is for treason and violations of Espionage Act, it is game, set, and match for this group, and likely for the Republican Party for the forseeable future. I think is what has them all scared shitless right now. They would gladly settle for perjury or even obstruction of justice.

[Walt Starr]

1. He lied his lying ass off

and he knew dann well and good he was lying.

[pinto]

2. Yes. n/t

[Disturbed]

9. Maybe he did not lie.

If he didn't know this was not the case and merely reading what he was given to read. We have no way of knowing if he lied about this or not. Did he lie about other things regarding WMDs? I suspect that he did yet again, proof is required. I loath this jerk and his cabal of criminals but still maintain that proof, at least no reasonable doubt, must exist to bring any charges.

An Impeachment of Bush/Cheney is overdue because this would be an inguiry into possible crimes of which there is a reasonable possibility of having occurred.

[pinto]

10. See your point. I wasn't thinking in impeachment terms, 'cause I think

there's a snowball's chance in hell that impeachment will ever be, realistically, on the House agenda. I'm OK with dismantling the Administration's pyramid scheme from the bottom up.

[charlie]

14. He lied

Tenet had it removed from an earlier speech of his. When he caught wind that Dumbbell was trying to use it again, he sent memos and called Hadley to make sure it wasn't included. Powell excluded it from his UN presentation a week later because he thought it was junk. The little asshole wanted it in his speech.

[Warren Stupidity]

17. Several weeks earlier...

in a prior Bush speech, the CIA requested that the niger uranium lie be deleted because, well, it wasn't true, and it was deleted. Then the SOTU speech appears and the same lie is back in the speech, only this time it is attributed to British Intel.

Oh, please spare me the 'burden of proof' crap, not only was this a lie, but the charade of changing the attribution from one source to another to avoid the previous objection from the CIA indicates a willfull and deliberate act of deception.

Now sure the f*ing moron could have been ignorant of all this: perhaps he is just an agent of the conspiracy and not at all the brains, not on the inside of anything, or perhaps like a good mafia don he maintains a degree of insulation from all overt acts. In either case (idiot agent or mafia don) he is guilty of conspiracy rather than an overt act. OK? So the idiot illegally installed in the white house is just provably a conspirator in the effort to commit fraud and deception to take this nation to war.

[AlinPA]

3. Yes, he lied. Rove lied. Powell lied. Rice lied. Rumsfeld lied. They

are all filthy liars.

[babylonsister]

4. Absolutely he did. nt

[BOSSHOG]

5. He lied intentionally

That's why scoot-scoot hates Wilson. Wilson told the truth. bush will successfully file an insanity plea.

[madrchsod]

6. bush will not be charged with anything.

if he didn`t know these words were lies, he knows now and worse he didn`t do anything about the people who lied to him.

[The Gunslinger]

7. He Lied. He blinks when he lies.. nt

[Kierkegaard]

11. There's an easier way to tell he's lying:

His lips move.

[SledDriver]

18. easier than that...

his mouth is open.

[shenmue]

8. Yeah, he knew

He just wanted to go in and steal that oil, and he had to make up anything to do it. Iraq wasn't responsible for Sep. 11, so B*** knew he had to come up with something else to sell to the public. What can he sell? The same thing that worked for Reagan--the threat of somebody else being able to build nukes.

Lies, all lies. Utterly putrid.

[msongs]

12. ummm what sixteen words would those be? nt

[emulatorloo]

15. try google - type in "16 words" "SOTU"

Ok here I will do it for you

http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en-us&q=16+words+SOTU&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

"The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa."

[Ksec]

13. and it was under oath

A state of the union speech to Congress is considered under oath.

[dpbrown]

16. Yes, under oath

The oath of office.

[Rainscents]

19. Why are you asking stupied question? Are you serious about this question?

Everyone knows he lied and you didn't know this? Come on, give me a break!

[sandnsea]

21. Nobody knew in Jan 2003

The information about the forgeries wasn't available then.

[gulliver]

24. They were crude forgeries don't forget and in the State of the ...

... Union address.

Also, the wording of the sixteen words shows that Bush knew the evidence was tenuous. Bush attributed the false information to the British.

Recap:

President of the United States...crude forgeries...attributed SOTU words to British.

There has never been a more disgusting performance by someone with the title POTUS.

[sandnsea]

25. Bush knew, I believe that

And his inner circle. I meant that it wasn't known outside of that, by the public at large.

[sandnsea]

20. Did he go to defcon 5?

Or the equivalent. No. He claims he just got the news that Iraq was seeking yellow cake to build nuclear bombs, and all he did was mention it in passing in the SOTU. If he really believed that, HE would have sent somebody to Niger. Nobody has ever asked the very simple question, "What did you do about this new information about Iraq and yellow cake?" Plan to invade Iraq isn't a sufficient answer, if you really believe there's yellow cake loose somewhere in the world. He lied.

[texpatriot2004]

22. Chumpy may or may not create the plans, but he knows them

he's aware of them no doubt. He's dense but not stupid.

[Just Me]

23. His whole fucking life has been a lie. Yet, you ask, "did he lie"?

Does the man EVER have ANY responsibility for ANYTHING he does?

DOH!!!!

[librechik]

26. no-he said "The British have learned..."

so technically, no, (IMO) that phrase, while deceitful, was not literally a lie. Probably quite deliberately so.

He might have lied to congress in some other context. And others certainly have lied at his behest, notably during the famous top secret presentation to the Senate about the dangers of Iraq prior to the vote for powers.

Bush's public record lies--It's a big subject, worthy of a special prosecutor.

[PurityOfEssence]

27. Yes. We didn't learn this from Britain and he knew it.

He knew that the British were using the same intel based on the forged documents, and he knew that we'd already discredited them. We didn't learn this from the British, we already knew of the attempt. Thus, the very statement (which implied that a revelation from a trusted ally prompted us to our cringing fear) was a de facto lie: he knew that what he was saying was untrue, and it was designed to mislead others into doing something for his own benefit.

This mob has rarely "lied" in the strict sense of the term, they've used innuendo and misrepresentation to accomplish the same thing. "Saddam supported terrorism", but not against the United States. Endless speechifying with "Saddam", "9-11" and "terrorism" in proximity were made by all the usual suspects, even though they didn't say "he did it". Junior's even on videotape saying that "we never said Saddam had anything to do with 9-11".

They have lied a few times, though, and the juiciest one is when Junior said "we never had the slightest inkling that anything was wrong with the intelligence". He was referring to the intel from the CIA and other agencies, and he knew full well that there were qualifiers that were dropped, demands from Tenet that references to nuclear threats be dropped--as they were, before being brought back from the grave--and endless chorusings of complaints from the intelligence community. There were literally screams from the intelligence community saying that the assessments were in question.

It was so bad that even when Cheney personally went to Langley to twist arms and demand justifications on a few occasions, they wouldn't give them to him. As a result, Feith had to establish his own "intel" group in the Pentagon and Cheney had to establish the humorously acronymed "WHIG" in the White House to give the warmongers enough propaganda to cow Congress and the press into war.

[Straight Shooter]

28. Whether speaking those words was a lie, technically or otherwise,

that isn't the point. The point is the inference that bush wanted everyone to make from those 16 words. Any thinking adult understands that you don't have to tell a lie to make someone believe a lie.